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Bioware bans SW:TOR player over internet meme
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dragonelite
Member
Bioware seems to ban every body and their mother just for typing on their forum.
Unless you defend them and their failing MMO to the death which most of them do
Portugeezer
Member
Activision should take note and ban 90% of the COD community.
D
Deleted member 81567
Unconfirmed Member
Unacceptable. Should reverse ban immediately.
HP_Wuvcraft
Banned
Banned from playing. GAF has taken two sides: that the very fact that he was banned was bad, or the fact that he was banned without a way to contact EA was bad.
drkOne
Member
Quite different considering he paid for TOR.
RiderKairuu
Member
I'm not defending Bioware but this is simply a case of a dude trying to be a smart ass and it back firing. Like most have said the only sad solution is to stay the hell away from Bioware/EA forums. My only hope is that they cause enough of an outrage for something to be done about it.
kyo_daikun
Member
Hence why I don't even bother posting on there.
It's a minor thing they've done but at least they are being vigiliant, now all they need to do is get to work on the 30+ gold sellers i've reported the last few days, specifically the one who ingame mails me saying "hello darling"
Thanks. Seems like some people are saying it is okay to ban people from playing a game for a forum violation? That's madness. Bioware have been infected by the EA sickness.
I agree it was a silly thing to post, and a forum ban should be expected. I also think once trhey were advised of teh situation they could reinstate him. But to cut off access to the game for a forum violation that was not even real, reeks of hyper controlling behaviour of the highest order.
kyo_daikun
Member
Basically, guessing a jobsworth mod saw the post and maybe never heard of the meme (I know I haven't) so they thought he was infringing so they banned him, they should have done more research into it before they did obviously.
HP_Wuvcraft
Banned
TOR TOS says you gotta be over 13.
dragonelite
Member
The forum and games should be different entities and not connected to each other.
So not a global ban for something stupid said on a forum.
unrenowned
Member
The user purchased a limited license to play a game Bioware developed.
User signs up and accepts the TOS, which states that the person registering the account must be an adult in their country of residence.
It also states that the account may be terminated if it violates the TOS.
Bioware simply followed their TOS which the user had previously accepted.
The message even stated that the user could contact support in case of questions, which would have resolved this situation.
User signs up and accepts the TOS, which states that the person registering the account must be an adult in their country of residence.
It also states that the account may be terminated if it violates the TOS.
Bioware simply followed their TOS which the user had previously accepted.
The message even stated that the user could contact support in case of questions, which would have resolved this situation.
The problem remains the nature of the violation--if someone is 12, they're not allowed to have a TOR account, forum or game. it would make no sense to only forum-ban him. Either they believed him to be 12, in which case he's violating the game's TOS (not by posting on the forum, but by being 12, the forum post just tipping them off to the other violation) and should be banned from forum and game, or they don't and he doesn't get banned at all.
Making stupid jokes on the forums shouldn't get you banned from the game, but if you don't recognize the meme (and I for one didn't) it's entirely possible to mistake the dumb joke for a dumb kid. Once the guy proves himself to be over 13, he should get access back, but since he can't be bothered, I can't get my consumerist ire up over the situation.
FieryBalrog
Member
So does every internet thing ever. People don't get banned for this kinda thing much.
That is a very problematic TOS, especially if it is not clearly labelled on the box. If no 12 year olds are allowed to even play the game, unless that is clearly labelled on the box it is still not good. If you have bought the product, and are legally allowed to buy the product, there should be no way for a non governmental agency stopping you from playing the product as long as you have not negatively impacted other players.
It is rated T. That is not a restricted rating, anyone can buy the game.
MesserWolf
Member
this .
I don't even know where to begin with people who think this is ok.
customer protections need to be extended to digital services ASAP. THe fact that a company can ban you from hundreds of dollars of paid digital content without giving you the opportunity to "defend" yourself BEFORE is unacceptable.
They hide behind huge TOS and EULAs whose legality is still unclear.
FieryBalrog
Member
People by which I mean e-lawyers as usual overestimate the validity of TOS/EULA and other such documents. The TOS could in the fine print require all users to avoid wearing pointy hats when playing and Bioware could ban anyone admitting to wearing a pointy hat when playing and yet the validity of the action can still be easily called into question- not just in a debate over ethics, but legally as well. You can refuse to serve a customer, but once you serve the customer and enter into a contract there are obligations that you can't shirk by claiming in the contractual text that you don't have them.
Even if the legality of the action were sound, it's incredibly unsound from the standpoint of business ethics and the sort of relations you want with your customers, and should rightly result in bad press. Just because something is legal doesn't mean people owe you good PR.
However, let us return to the regularly scheduled programming of "lol Bioware PWNED that dumbass"
Even if the legality of the action were sound, it's incredibly unsound from the standpoint of business ethics and the sort of relations you want with your customers, and should rightly result in bad press. Just because something is legal doesn't mean people owe you good PR.
However, let us return to the regularly scheduled programming of "lol Bioware PWNED that dumbass"
blitzcloud
Banned
It's great to see the TOS enforced in such a manner that everything you say incriminates you beyond the boundaries of common sense.
EA forums are something special, by the looks of it.
EA forums are something special, by the looks of it.
Would it matter? Both the game and the forum are relegated to 13 and over for the same reason. It has nothing to do with the rating of TOR.
blitzcloud
Banned
0 gravity suspensions.
Of course it matters. One is removing access to a forum, the other is depriving access to a product paid for. How hard is it to understand the difference? If it is legal for someone to buy it at any age, banning someone from accessing it for being too young is blatantly ridiculous.
MesserWolf
Member
very well said!
blitzcloud
Banned
Well, you know that online interactions are not rated by the ESRB.
FieryBalrog
Member
Being 12 seconds old is pretty clearly against the TOS, permaban that dumbass.
-a poster in this thread
DiscoJer
Member
Again, it's a Federal Law. Companies have been fined thousands of dollars for violating this law.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COPPA
Considering the federal government apparently has nothing better to do than hound baseball players like Barry Bonds and Roger Clemens for using steroids, you have to realize they probably have people after online games as well. Hell, someone could have see that post, not realize it was a joke and notified the government.
I'm not saying they're the same, I'm saying that the reason the rule exists applies to both the forum and the game both. It's not legal for them to allow someone that is 12 and under to register for a game account OR a forum account - why would they allow them to continue playing the game if they're going to ban someone for being underage on the forum?
It's in the TOS that you have to *be* 13. Absolutely nothing in it about what you can *claim* you are. He didn't break the TOS. Particularly amusing in an RPG environment where you implicitly play someone you're not. ("I'm a youngling and what is this?". I wonder if that'd incur a ban?)
(Then again, there's almost certainly some allowance in the TOS for "We can ban you if we feel like it". Rarely used, but a handy get-out clause to deal with people who shit things up within the rules)
FieryBalrog
Member
I'm taking the bar in 6 months. I can read the wikipedia article, people linked it before, so I get that part.
In this case, yes. The intended meaning is obvious, though.
The Hermit
Member
How come I've never watcehd that video before
If you join a nice golf and country club which takes a monthly fee and initial signup cost, and you then charge naked through the lounge shrieking "I'M A BABOON", are they stealing if they don't allow you to attend the nice golf and country club any more?
Now access to other games, I'll give you. But games based around a community, where any person could have an influence on the community? I support the notion of getting rid of people actively trying to shit up the game I'm (hypothetically, I haven't touched SW:TOR, and have no plans to) playing. They shouldn't have their access to other games affected, though.
...that *said*, I'm just talking about the *principle* here. I'd question whether these posters really *were* 'shitting up the community' - certainly, their infractions seem quite minor and harmless. EA/Bioware are establishing a zero tolerance policy, and I'm suspecting that's a little overzealous.
FieryBalrog
Member
For one, they should be taking just a little more time to investigate if there's an actual violation before issuing a game ban. That's both legally and ethically sound.
There is no Fed bogeyman waiting to swoop in and issue million dollar companies for failing to ban a guy who says "I'm 12 and what is this" on an internet forum. That's really not how the law will work, it's going to be a little more nuanced and sensible than that and the companies obviously know that.
Which is why feel free to post this exact text string on numerous other MMO forums and see how often their crack army of lawyers jumps in and gets you banned from the game right away in order to stave off million-dollar losses. You think if this sort of hair-trigger reaction was actually necessary, if their poor hands are so stringently tied, which some people seem to think is the case, then every major company would be putting way more effort into doing what Bioware just did. That's actually not how it works, and companies have obligations to consumers and contract law and ethical considerations as well, not just obligations to take reasonable efforts to comply with a certain federal law.
That's not to say that this action is legally unsound, but it is certainly not "the only option" and it is also rightfully a recipe for bad PR and consumer backlash.
Look, I'm not saying that it is good that they immediately banned the guy, even if I think it kind of funny. My point is that there is no logic in this case of banning someone from the forums and not from the game if the reason they are being banned from the forum applies to the game. It wouldn't make any more sense to do one and not the other.
Obviously they should fucking check to see if the guy is actually that age before he gets banned altogether. Jesus christ.
FieryBalrog
Member
Except the two are different and there is no reason to automatically link the two. The one should have a higher standard of care than the other- which was precisely my point in that post.
Which is, by the way, how MOST companies in this area operate. A WoW or LOTRO forum ban is not automatically linked to your game account (although of course it MAY be if the circumstances merit it). It's a really stupid and badly thought-out system - from a consumer perspective, which is what matters here.
There is nothing wrong with, and a good deal of sense in, putting a bit more effort into investigating before issuing a game ban, while issuing a forum suspension in the meantime pending further information.
So yes, I think there is very sound logic behind it. You know, the sort of logic that most companies operate on.
Which is, by the way, how MOST companies in this area operate. A WoW or LOTRO forum ban is not automatically linked to your game account (although of course it MAY be if the circumstances merit it). It's a really stupid and badly thought-out system - from a consumer perspective, which is what matters here.
There is nothing wrong with, and a good deal of sense in, putting a bit more effort into investigating before issuing a game ban, while issuing a forum suspension in the meantime pending further information.
So yes, I think there is very sound logic behind it. You know, the sort of logic that most companies operate on.
It doesn't matter whether they're automatically linked or not in this case, which is all I'm trying to get across. If you got banned on the forums in WoW, LotRO or SWTOR for being underage you'd get banned from the games too, because of the exact same obligation that made them ban you from the forum in the first place. The difference is that a less retarded company would probably take greater care in figuring out whether they needed to take that step at all. None of them are going to do one and not the other, though, because there's no logic in that.
So shouldnt they have made a reasonable attempt to check his age at point of sale?
Stupid analogy.
Ban him from the forum, but not the game. And if they are going to ban him from the game, they owe him a refund of the RRP.
The forum and the game fall under the same legislation. EA/Bioware can't knowingly store underage information. Treating the forum/game differently would do nothing.
This is not a normal forum ban. This is not farming gold or calling someone a name. This is the user breaking the TOS and putting EA/bioware directly in trouble with the FTC and federal law.
try making a WoW account, and then telling a mod ingame that you are underage and don't have your parents permission.
There is a good deal of sense in not directly stating you are breaking the TOS.
blitzcloud
Banned
Let me try a better analogy. You go to that club with your wife. The club needs people to be +18 to signup. You chitchat with someone in the club, and in the middle a conversation, an employee overhears it: "thank god they didn't check my wife's age. hahaha". It just pretended to be a joke due to how young his wife looks, but the employee takes her away and bans her membership.
That's TOTALLY OK. He said it, must be true.
Brilliant. I like it.
2 million sold, strong numbers after the free month. Yep, DEAD.
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