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-   -   XBW Rumor: The Next Xbox Has A Wii U Like Tablet Controller With HD Screen, Buttons (http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=462613)

Tookay 02-11-2012 08:32 PM

[QUOTE=elcranky;35046749]That is the fundamental flaw in your argument. Sticks are incomparably more user friendly. So you get superior functionality (through precision) and superior usability (through comfort).[/QUOTE]

Play Super Meat Boy without a d-pad. Come back to me.

Gr1mLock 02-11-2012 08:35 PM

eh..will believe it when i seez it.

Dion Blaster 02-11-2012 08:45 PM

I have Super Meat Boy on my computer. I have played it with both my dual shock 3 and wii classic controller pro. Classic controller pro all the way. NOTHING beats a good dpad for platformers. Sticks are great for games designed for analog movement, not 2D platformers.

tmarques 02-11-2012 08:46 PM

[QUOTE=GavinGT;34996431]Why are people just assuming this crap is true? [b]Confidence in the Wii U is at an all-time low.[/b][/QUOTE]

So? People thought the Wii was going to crash and burn when it was announced.

Dion Blaster 02-11-2012 08:47 PM

If this rumor is true, Sony's next console has to have a tablet controller right? if they don't it would be like the Wii not having HD, but without the system seller software as well.

Rad- 02-11-2012 08:49 PM

I found SMB easier with analogs.

Emitan 02-11-2012 08:50 PM

[QUOTE=Tookay;35046766]Play Super Meat Boy without a d-pad. Come back to me.[/QUOTE]

Someone told me they did a few days ago ;_;

Tookay 02-11-2012 09:03 PM

[QUOTE=Billychu;35047184]Someone told me they did a few days ago ;_;[/QUOTE]

This news hurts my soul.

elcranky 02-11-2012 09:26 PM

[QUOTE=linkratos;35047056]I have Super Meat Boy on my computer. I have played it with both my dual shock 3 and wii classic controller pro. Classic controller pro all the way. NOTHING beats a good dpad for platformers. Sticks are great for games designed for analog movement, not 2D platformers.[/QUOTE]


Sigh, the D-pad is an AWFUL control device. A stick will always have greater sensitivitywnd precision. That is simple physics. I am not talking about analog here. A 2600 stick would dominate any dpad in existence.

Somnid 02-11-2012 09:33 PM

[QUOTE=elcranky;35047957]Sigh, the D-pad is an AWFUL control device. A stick will always have greater sensitivitywnd precision. That is simple physics. I am not talking about analog here. A 2600 stick would dominate any dpad in existence.[/QUOTE]

Sans analog joysticks have a gigantic dead spot because you only read 0 or 1 (or in most modern cases 0-0.5 or 0.5 to 1). The sensitivity you speak of actually hinders it in many control scenarios.

Nobody has ever claimed Mario would play better with a joystick, have they?

thomasmahler 02-11-2012 09:36 PM

[QUOTE=Tookay;35046766]Play Super Meat Boy without a d-pad. Come back to me.[/QUOTE]

You played Super Meat Boy using the Xbox360 D-pad? Kudos to you, I can only play it using the analog stick, cause the X360 D-Pad is far from ideal.

Emitan 02-11-2012 09:37 PM

[QUOTE=thomasmahler;35048129]You played Super Meat Boy using the Xbox360 D-pad? Kudos to you, I can only play it using the analog stick, cause the X360 D-Pad is far from ideal.[/QUOTE]

It's on PC...

Agent X 02-11-2012 09:37 PM

[QUOTE=Zoramon089;35021678]Smartphones and tablets don't have buttons. How hard is it to understand multitouch is meant to cram more functionality into the touch screen [B]because the devices lack any other input methods[/B][/QUOTE]

That's partially true. On the other hand, there are many examples of multi-touch gestures that have been mentioned earlier, which can be more accessible and more intuitive than using some "not so obvious" combination of buttons and/or joypad movements.

[QUOTE=Pazuzu9;35021942]The DS has never felt lacking without multitouch.[/QUOTE]

This is like saying the Atari 2600 has never felt lacking without having multiple buttons on its joystick. No one fathomed the possibility of ever playing games with 6 or 8 buttons when the "cutting edge" games of the day were [url=http://www.atariage.com/software_page.html?SoftwareLabelID=95]Combat[/url], [url=http://www.atariage.com/software_page.html?SoftwareLabelID=341]Outlaw[/url], and [url=http://www.atariage.com/software_page.html?SoftwareLabelID=436]Sky Diver[/url].

[QUOTE=Pazuzu9;35021942]The only reason multitouch is essential for game control on tablets and smartphones is because there are no physical buttons. The Wii U controller doesn't have this problem.[/QUOTE]

As stated above, there are many uses for multi-touch for easy-to-use gestures and stuff like that.

By your logic, if the Wii U doesn't need multi-touch (because it has buttons), then why does it even need any form of touch at all?

Nintendo could easily cut costs by utilizing an ordinary LCD screen without touch input. Touch isn't needed at all for a device like this. After all, it's got multiple buttons and analog sticks, which should be useful for doing anything you could ever want to do in a video game, right? Besides, if someone wanted to tap on the screen, then he'd have to take his finger off the buttons to do so...which would suddenly render the buttons useless. [i]PARADOX![/i]

[QUOTE=Pazuzu9;35021942]The only other application I have seen for multitouch is for multiplayer games on the same tablet - those sort of air hockey style things. But they're all shite. The Wii U controller will be used by 1 player 99.9% of the time, so that's not even worth thinking about.[/QUOTE]

In that case, that would be a great argument for including multi-touch on something like the Wii U controller. Fans of Nintendo often talk about taking the game experience off of the TV, or even not needing to use the TV--well, then they'd have to use the screen on the controller as the primary display. Nintendo is held to high regard as being "innovative", so this would be a great way for them to showcase innovation in gameplay. After all, if everyone else is doing it wrong, then Nintendo should have the opportunity to demonstrate how to do it right.

Nemo 02-11-2012 09:37 PM

[QUOTE=Tookay;35046766]Play Super Meat Boy without a d-pad. Come back to me.[/QUOTE]I played maybe 50-50 d-pad and analog stick Super Meat Boy (Sixaxis controller). Most levels don't [I]really [/I]require d-pad precision...

mj1108 02-11-2012 09:37 PM

Late to this thread but I don't doubt it's true. In fact, I'm sure both MS and Sony ramped up development of such a controller the second word hit about what Nintendo was up to. Both Sony and MS saw what happened when they got caught with their pants down this gen and you know they weren't going to let it happen again.

Gaborn 02-11-2012 09:41 PM

[QUOTE=disappeared;35037209]And Microsoft will ape Nintendo and Sony will ape Microsoft and Nintendo will ape itself and everybody will ape everybody and we'll just keep spiraling into gimmick after gimmick.

I can't even understand how this shit gets tolerated anymore. [B]It's the sheer and utter complacency of the lowest-common-denominator market. The idiots who will buy anything because it's new and shiny.[/B]

Unless the Wii U manages to somehow shatter this industry into a million pieces and says, "what now, motherfuckers?" I will continue to be less and less enthusiastic about this console industry. Waggle until the cows come home. It won't change the fact that you're using suped-up Power Gloves to play your games. Fucking exciting.[/QUOTE]

Why do I get the feeling you wouldn't have a problem with Sony making just another Dual Shock controller for the next PlayStation. You can call this many things but what Nintendo (and potentially MS) are doing is hardly complacency in industry terms.

AshMcCool 02-11-2012 09:43 PM

April Issue, though?

elcranky 02-11-2012 09:53 PM

[QUOTE=Somnid;35048097]Sans analog joysticks have a gigantic dead spot because you only read 0 or 1 (or in most modern cases 0-0.5 or 0.5 to 1). The sensitivity you speak of actually hinders it in many control scenarios.

Nobody has ever claimed Mario would play better with a joystick, have they?[/QUOTE]

2 points:

1. I would never waste my time on a nintendo game
2. mario might actually be tolerable with a stick. It would definitely control vastly better.

goomba 02-11-2012 09:53 PM

If this is true , seems Nintendo shouldn't have shown their cards last e3.

I still wonder if there is a secret Wiiu feature that will be its main point of difference from the next Sony / Ms boxes.

Emitan 02-11-2012 09:54 PM

[QUOTE=elcranky;35048464]2 points:

1. I would never waste my time on a nintendo game
2. mario might actually be tolerable with a stick. It would definitely control vastly better.[/QUOTE]

So basically you don't actually know anything about what's being discussed?

Agent X 02-11-2012 09:59 PM

[QUOTE=elcranky;35048464]2 points:

1. I would never waste my time on a nintendo game[/QUOTE]

That's nice.

[QUOTE=elcranky;35048464]2. mario might actually be tolerable with a stick. It would definitely control vastly better.[/QUOTE]

How would [i]you[/i] know, if you would never waste your time with it?

elcranky 02-11-2012 10:01 PM

[QUOTE=Billychu;35048476]So basically you don't actually know anything about what's being discussed?[/QUOTE]

No it means that I am one of the few people that can be rational about the topic.

More to the point of the topic. On of the great things about the touch screen would be the ability to eliminate the dpad entirely, not that they would do something that awesome.

Emitan 02-11-2012 10:03 PM

[QUOTE=elcranky;35048634]No it means that I am one of the few people that can be rational about the topic.[/QUOTE]

Saying you would never play the cornerstone franchise of a genre and then talking from a position of authority isn't very rational.


[QUOTE=elcranky;35048672]Perhaps because it is the same game as the eighties?[/QUOTE]
I would consider it unwise to ignore a franchise for 20+ years and then make statements on it.

elcranky 02-11-2012 10:03 PM

[QUOTE=Agent X;35048580]That's nice.



How would [i]you[/i] know, if you would never waste your time with it?[/QUOTE]

Perhaps because it is the same game as the eighties?

onipex 02-11-2012 10:06 PM

If this is true a think it is a bad move by MS. If the Wii U is successful Microsoft's tablet will not slow it down and the next box will be getting year old Wii U ports.


Kinect worked because it was different enough, but also because Nintendo and third parties had moved on the 3DS and Wii U. This could play out move like the PS Move did.

elcranky 02-11-2012 10:08 PM

[QUOTE=Billychu;35048665]Saying you would never play the cornerstone franchise of a genre and then talking from a position of authority isn't very rational.[/QUOTE]

Platformers are irrelevant to my thesis.

Jocchan 02-11-2012 10:12 PM

[QUOTE=elcranky;35048672]Perhaps because it is the same game as the eighties?[/QUOTE]
It's nice to talk about things one knows nothing about.
For instance, needlecraft. Who needs needlecraft?

Somnid 02-11-2012 10:12 PM

[QUOTE=elcranky;35048464]2 points:

1. I would never waste my time on a nintendo game
2. mario might actually be tolerable with a stick. It would definitely control vastly better.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=elcranky;35048634]No it means that I am one of the few people that can be rational about the topic.

More to the point of the topic. On of the great things about the touch screen would be the ability to eliminate the dpad entirely, not that they would do something that awesome.[/QUOTE]

Thanks for at least being up front and honest about your agenda. It's typically more embarrassing for people to keep up their charade of impartiality.

BY2K 02-11-2012 10:16 PM

[QUOTE=elcranky;35048672]Perhaps because it is the same game as the eighties?[/QUOTE]

Oh goodie, you're one of [I]those.[/I]

EatinOlives 02-11-2012 10:25 PM

[QUOTE=Zoramon089;35030832]No, it doesn't extend to that because the added benefits of multitouch over touch are miniscule compared to touch over simple buttons.[/QUOTE]

According to who? You?

Multitouch>single touch. End of story. Again, it's not really prudent to say inferiority is better. I know a lot of people say that just to justify Nintendo's decisions, but they're big boys. They don't need defending.

boyshine 02-11-2012 10:25 PM

[QUOTE=elcranky;35047957]Sigh, the D-pad is an AWFUL control device. A stick will always have greater sensitivitywnd precision. That is simple physics. I am not talking about analog here. A 2600 stick would dominate any dpad in existence.[/QUOTE]For a 2D game where you control something that goes left or right a d-pad is the best thing. Any stick, digital or analog, has a travel distance that takes away the on/off control that these games need. A „recent” example is NSMBW which support both stick (nunchuk) and d-pad (remote), don’t tell me you prefer stick control for that.

(...reads the rest of the thread...)

oh, you’re just a troll.

Emitan 02-11-2012 10:26 PM

[QUOTE=boyshine;35049027]For a 2D game where you control something that goes left or right a d-pad is the best thing. Any stick, digital or analog, has a travel distance that takes away the on/off control that these games need. A „recent” example is NSMBW which support both stick (nunchuk) and d-pad (remote), don’t tell me you prefer stick control for that.

(...reads the rest of the thread...)

oh, you’re just a troll.[/QUOTE]

To be fair, he was talking about digital sticks. But yeah, he's a troll.

Somnid 02-11-2012 10:28 PM

[QUOTE=EatinOlives;35049022]According to who? You?

Multitouch>single touch. End of story. Again, it's not really prudent to say inferiority is better. I know a lot of people say that just to justify Nintendo's decisions, but they're big boys. They don't need defending.[/QUOTE]

According to who? You?

EatinOlives 02-11-2012 10:31 PM

[QUOTE=Somnid;35049087]According to who? You?[/QUOTE]

No, according to a simple laws of logic. Multiple points of input>one point of input.

Good god some people can be annoying. They'll argue the sky isn't blue just to get an argument going.

Emitan 02-11-2012 10:33 PM

[QUOTE=EatinOlives;35049133]No, according to a simple laws of logic. Multiple points of input>one point of input.

Good god some people can be annoying. They'll argue the sky isn't blue just to get an argument going.[/QUOTE]

The argument isn't single vs multitouch. It's resistive touch screen with stylus vs capacitive touch screen with multi touch.

EatinOlives 02-11-2012 10:36 PM

[QUOTE=Billychu;35049154]The argument isn't single vs multitouch. It's resistive touch screen with stylus vs capacitive touch screen with multi touch.[/QUOTE]

No, the argument eventually became "Who cares over multitouch? According to my completely arbitrary measures, the difference of multitouch over single touch aren't significant"

Somnid 02-11-2012 10:36 PM

[QUOTE=EatinOlives;35049133]No, according to a simple laws of logic. Multiple points of input>one point of input.

Good god some people can be annoying. They'll argue the sky isn't blue just to get an argument going.[/QUOTE]

You just made a straw man argument and then preceded to complain about people making up arguments.

EatinOlives 02-11-2012 10:38 PM

[QUOTE=Somnid;35049211]You just made a straw man argument and then preceded to complain about people making up arguments.[/QUOTE]

Pray tell, what "straw man" did I pull? Just plopping logical fallacy names does not a good argument make.

Somnid 02-11-2012 10:41 PM

[QUOTE=EatinOlives;35049232]Pray tell, what "straw man" did I pull? Just plopping logical fallacy names does not a good argument make.[/QUOTE]

Nobody was arguing one point of contact is better than more than one point of contact. The core arguments are around the precision of the touch events. You substituted an argument that makes no sense and one I have yet to see made.

EatinOlives 02-11-2012 10:44 PM

[QUOTE=Somnid;35049294]Nobody was arguing one point of contact is better than more than one point of contact. The core arguments are around the precision of the touch events. You substituted an argument that had merit for one that makes no sense and one I have yet to see made.[/QUOTE]

I do suggest you read the topic and what I was replying to. I was specifically replying to this post:

[QUOTE=Zoramon089;35030832]No, it doesn't extend to that because the added benefits of multitouch over touch are miniscule compared to touch over simple buttons.[/QUOTE]

No mention of stylus control or precision. That was something somebody else brought up. And I never said that people were arguing to one point of contact is better, it's the failure to admit or downplay the fact that multiple points is better.

Valnen 02-11-2012 10:46 PM

People shouldn't be complaining about this until they get their hands on the controller. Until then you can't say for sure whether it will suck or not.

Andrex 02-11-2012 10:48 PM

[QUOTE=purple cobra;34996565]Exactly. I'm not too keen on these "tablet" style controllers. The Wii U controller looks uncomfortable to me.[/QUOTE]

All reports out of E3 and CES were that it's very comfortable. Nintendo doesn't make uncomfortable controllers.

Somnid 02-11-2012 10:52 PM

[QUOTE=EatinOlives;35049332]I do suggest you read the topic and what I was replying to. I was specifically replying to this post:

No mention of stylus control or precision. That was something somebody else brought up. And I never said that people were arguing to one point of contact is better, it's the failure to admit or downplay the fact that multiple points is better.[/QUOTE]

So now your just going to pull things out of context? Basically he said that multi-touch isn't a big win once you have buttons and then you pulled another switcheroo by claiming that because he claims multi-touch isn't as important with buttons that this means he must also agrees that touch screens in general were unnecessary with buttons.

massoluk 02-11-2012 10:54 PM

[QUOTE=EatinOlives;35049332]I do suggest you read the topic and what I was replying to. I was specifically replying to this post:



No mention of stylus control or precision. That was something somebody else brought up. And I never said that people were arguing to one point of contact is better, it's the failure to admit or downplay the fact that multiple points is better.[/QUOTE]

Uh it sounds like he was saying he'd rather have single touch and buttons over multi-touch and no buttons.... Nothing wrong with that

eddiepfund 02-11-2012 10:55 PM

I don't think I am looking forward to the next gen consoles. I think I might just be focusing on the computer...

EatinOlives 02-11-2012 11:07 PM

[QUOTE=Somnid;35049479]So now your just going to pull things out of context? Basically he said that multi-touch isn't a big win once you have buttons and then you pulled another switcheroo by claiming that because he claims multi-touch isn't as important with buttons that this means he must also agrees that touch screens in general were unnecessary with buttons.[/QUOTE]

*sigh*

Please, please read the topic. You're making absolutely no sense.

I pulled nothing out of context. I don't need anyone to interpret anything he said, what he said was completely clear. You're the one pulling posts out of context.

I said it's entirely subjective to believe that multitouch with buttons isn't a significant jump. That is why I said "according to who?" And that was before you came in repeating my post again trying to be clever. Essentially, you've come into the argument without understanding what either of us have said.

Nilaul 02-11-2012 11:54 PM

The whole argument capacitive vs resistive screens went down the drain in 2009.
When an amazing multi-touch resistive screen popped up.

[url]http://www.engadget.com/2009/02/19/stantums-mind-blowing-multitouch-interface-on-video/[/url]

Resistive mult-touch is superior then anything else, if you need proof watch the videos, and its still cheaper then capacitive. Capacitive is going down the drain.


[B]Edit[/B]: Why doesnt nintendo implement this?

KevinCow 02-12-2012 12:18 AM

[QUOTE=elcranky;35048464]1. I would never waste my time on a nintendo game[/QUOTE]Hold the fucking phone.

You're sitting here and arguing what the best input for a platformer is, and now you proudly proclaim that you've never played a Mario game, or any Nintendo platformer?

Look, I don't care what you think of the company. Nintendo revolutionized the genre with Super Mario Bros., basically defined the platformer as we know it today. And then they did it again with Mario 3. And again with Mario 64, but that's getting into 3D and away from the d-pad discussion. Point is, they were and have continued to be one of the, if not [i]the[/i], most influential publishers in the genre. If you have played a single platformer made in the last 25 years, I can pretty much guarantee that game took some cues from Mario. If you can't respect that, then why are you even discussing the genre?

It's like arguing about sci-fi for an hour before proudly proclaiming that you've never seen and never intend to see any Star Trek or Star Wars movies. Or arguing about fantasy and revealing you've never read Lord of the Rings. Or arguing about superheroes and boasting that you've never read, seen, played, or otherwise experienced any medium based on DC or Marvel characters.

Andrex 02-12-2012 12:44 AM

Man this latest batch of juniors sure is... interesting...

BishopLamont 02-12-2012 12:47 AM

Everyone knows keyboard+mouse is the real. Fuck controllers. All of em.


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