[QUOTE=MadOdorMachine;36378639]It could very well be a new 360 fab process. 2013 seems kind of late, but I suppose they can position it against Wii U. It's a good way to continue generating revenue.

My other theory is that Durango will use 3D stacking and it's either that cheap and efficient to produce or the lite version maybe has reduced clocks, cores, etc to reduce the die size, power, etc and is a DD only box.[/QUOTE]

Well it's not like they are going to drop the 360 like they dropped the OG xbox, unlike their first system, they are actually profiting per units sold with the 360. IMO games will still be downported to the 360 and PS3 for as long as the software sales justify the investment. If rumors are true that the Wii-U could be closer to current gen performance, that could further extend how much support we see for current gen hardware.

As for your theory, well I'm not really sure it makes sense. If they went with a scaled down Durango model, that would add more cost since they would be manufacturing 3 different configurations (360, 720-lite, & 720-core) which is what these companies work to avoid.

[QUOTE=thuway;34997040]The entire industry uses each other. Do you know how many employees switch between Nintendo, Microsoft, and Sony on a daily basis? [/QUOTE]


No, how many?

[QUOTE=KevinCow;36379127]The hell are you talking about? Console controllers are more comfortable than handhelds because they don't have to be designed to fit in your pocket, not because handhelds have a screen.[/QUOTE]

True but screens destroy the ergonomics of a controller. You cant just plomp down 3-6 inch screen onto a controller, even if you design around it, you still have something that is rather large and uncomfortable.

[QUOTE=CoffeeExpress;36379634]True but screens destroy the ergonomics of a controller. You cant just plomp down 3-6 inch screen onto a controller, even if you design around it, you still have something that is rather large and uncomfortable.[/QUOTE]

No. You're wrong. The screen has no relation to why handhelds are less comfortable than console controllers. If handhelds were allowed to be thicker with handles and more ergonomic curves, they could be just as comfortable as a console controller, even with a screen in the middle. But then they wouldn't fit in your pocket.

[QUOTE=fluffydelusions;36378135]What is gimmicky about it? Seems like a lot of interesting things could come from it. Just having the HUD and all that other nonsense on the tablet as opposed to taking up screen real estate is a big plus in my book.[/QUOTE]

That's an inconvenience to me. Having to look down away from the screen to see things I normally see on a large TV isn't a benefit.

[QUOTE=KevinCow;36380180]No. You're wrong. The screen has no relation to why handhelds are less comfortable than console controllers. If handhelds were allowed to be thicker with handles and more ergonomic curves, they could be just as comfortable as a console controller, even with a screen in the middle. But then they wouldn't fit in your pocket.[/QUOTE]

I used handhelds only as an example, I wasn't talking about them there.

Controllers with large screens (and in the case of WiiU) would simply be too big to be comfortable.

Do you think Microsoft and AMD will build a GPU with another EDRAM daughter die with at least 1 TeraBits/sec bandwidth?

Note that the XB360 has an EDRAM daughter die with 256/GigaBits/sec bandwidth. So 1 TeraBits/sec would only be 4x the current XB360.

[QUOTE=herzogzwei1989;36385107]Do you think Microsoft and AMD will build a GPU with another EDRAM daughter die with at least 1 TeraBits/sec bandwidth?

Note that the XB360 has an EDRAM daughter die with 256/GigaBits/sec bandwidth. So 1 TeraBits/sec would only be 4x the current XB360.[/QUOTE]

Not likely, the 360 had edram as a way to get around the bandwidth limitations to the GDDR 3. Next Gen systems likely won't be using memory that slow, making edram less necessary.

Is PC gaming going to be where we all go to use normal controllers? :/

I mean, i'm fine with one person doing something different (whoever is first to that), but FFS just keep your shit normal everyone else who follows. God damn.

[QUOTE=Ninja Scooter;36378711]if the 3DS is anything to go by they don't work fine, and are even less acceptable on a full blown console.[/QUOTE]


They work fine for all the games I used them with, so I don't have any problem with the Wii U using them.

[QUOTE=Derrick01;36380380]That's an inconvenience to me. Having to look down away from the screen to see things I normally see on a large TV isn't a benefit.[/QUOTE]

How about not having to pause your game to bring up an inventory, map or game options because its always there on the controller?

I've been seeing people mention ergonomics.

A standard 360 controller might fit your hands, but your hands are in a position holding it that is far from natural. Your hands normally are far apart. Standard controllers keep your hands close together.

This is not natural. That's why hands cramp after extended play times.

[QUOTE=Thunder Monkey;36390776]I've been seeing people mention ergonomics.

A standard 360 controller might fit your hands, but your hands are in a position holding it that is far from natural. Your hands normally are far apart. Standard controllers keep your hands close together.

This is not natural. That's why hands cramp after extended play times.[/QUOTE]

True. I love how the Wii set up works...my hands are always pretty spread apart.

[QUOTE=Thunder Monkey;36390776]I've been seeing people mention ergonomics.

A standard 360 controller might fit your hands, but your hands are in a position holding it that is far from natural. Your hands normally are far apart. Standard controllers keep your hands close together.

This is not natural. That's why hands cramp after extended play times.[/QUOTE]

That is a very good point. From all the Wii U controller impressions I've read, they cited this as one of the reasons the controller was comfy. The second good thing about it was the slide pads that so many here hate, because they allowed for both thumbs to rest on them at the same height.

[QUOTE=Thunder Monkey;36390776]I've been seeing people mention ergonomics.

A standard 360 controller might fit your hands, but your hands are in a position holding it that is far from natural. Your hands normally are far apart. Standard controllers keep your hands close together.

This is not natural. That's why hands cramp after extended play times.[/QUOTE]
Finally, some reason.
The seemingly standard assumption that the Wii U tablet is less comfortable than a standard controller flies in the face of common sense.

[QUOTE=Thoraxes;36388023]Is PC gaming going to be where we all go to use normal controllers? :/

I mean, i'm fine with one person doing something different (whoever is first to that), but FFS just keep your shit normal everyone else who follows. God damn.[/QUOTE]

Indeed, it looks like we're heading directly into a Kinect-centric, video controller era. Microsoft has been admirably transparent about where they want to go in the future as far as their long-term goals and their enthusiasm for motion controls are concerned.

[QUOTE=Thunder Monkey;36390776]I've been seeing people mention ergonomics.

A standard 360 controller might fit your hands, but your hands are in a position holding it that is far from natural. Your hands normally are far apart. Standard controllers keep your hands close together.

This is not natural. That's why hands cramp after extended play times.[/QUOTE]

lol, I hate to break it to you but hand cramps have nothing to do with the position of your hands in space. The human body has joints in the shoulders, elbows and wrists which determine where your hands are.

The only thing that will cause hand cramps are actions in which the hands are directly responsible for, like gripping something.

[QUOTE=bigtroyjon;36391075]lol, I hate to break it to you but hand cramps have nothing to do with the position of your hands in space. The human body has joints in the shoulders, elbows and wrists which determine where your hands are.

The only thing that will cause hand cramps are actions in which the hands are directly responsible for, like gripping something.[/QUOTE]
Hows about gripping something in a strange position for hours?

Honestly I just get creeped out by old school controllers because I'm holding the controller like I'm getting ready to fuck something and the only thing that small is a baby, and I don't wanna fuck no babbies.

[QUOTE=goomba;36390092]How about not having to pause your game to bring up an inventory, map or game options because its always there on the controller?[/QUOTE]

You're going to look away from the screen while the game's running, potentially having something happen while you're not looking?

Also what would be the point? Whether you're looking down to check something or doing it through a pause menu, you're still not playing the game. Therefore I repeat...it's a gimmick.

[QUOTE=Derrick01;36391377]You're going to look away from the screen while the game's running, potentially having something happen while you're not looking?

Also what would be the point? Whether you're looking down to check something or doing it through a pause menu, you're still not playing the game. Therefore I repeat...it's a gimmick.[/QUOTE]

If you're going to talk about it being a gimmick then what you're currently saying isn't the gimmick. That'd actually be nice to look down touch a weapon icon, and have it switch.

No the gimmick would be something closer to the ninja stars thing they showed off last E3. Brushing your hand on the screen to throw the stars at the screen. That's gimmicky.

[QUOTE=Thunder Monkey;36391262]Hows about gripping something in a strange position for hours?

Honestly I just get creeped out by old school controllers because I'm holding the controller like I'm getting ready to fuck something and the only thing that small is a baby, and I don't wanna fuck no babbies.[/QUOTE]

Holding a specific position, while seemingly an inaction, requires the use of certain muscles and muscle groups.

Just thought I'd throw that in there.

And [B]big[/B] congrats to Microsoft if they do indeed proceed with this! The more I read think about it, the more excited I get! =)

[QUOTE=Thunder Monkey;36391452]If you're going to talk about it being a gimmick then what you're currently saying isn't the gimmick. That'd actually be nice to look down touch a weapon icon, and have it switch.

No the gimmick would be something closer to the ninja stars thing they showed off last E3. Brushing your hand on the screen to throw the stars at the screen. That's gimmicky.[/QUOTE]

No that sounds like a gimmick to me. Touching a weapon icon to switch doesn't add anything to the game that I can't already do through a pause menu without worrying about something coming up and hitting me while I'm doing it.

[QUOTE=Broadbandito;34996170]just give me a regular controller, FUCK[/QUOTE]


At least I know I'm not alone.

[QUOTE=Derrick01;36391583]No that sounds like a gimmick to me. Touching a weapon icon to switch doesn't add anything to the game that I can't already do through a pause menu without worrying about something coming up and hitting me while I'm doing it.[/QUOTE]

Maybe it's different for people that game on DS and 3DS consistently. I've never had a problem with it, and that's in games a hell of a lot faster paced than a Skyrim. Tilting your head by a few degrees more.

Out of all the gimmicky things with the controller, this application seems far and away not. It seems helpful to me.

I just want a regular XBox controller that splits in the middle so I can separate my hands.

That would work wonderfully with Kinect.

And if need be have a screen attachment that can bind the two halves together, that actually has a wire that goes to the console so it doesn't require too much additional horsepower and acts as a charger for the two halves.

[QUOTE=Thunder Monkey;36391262]Hows about gripping something in a strange position for hours?

Honestly I just get creeped out by old school controllers because I'm holding the controller like I'm getting ready to fuck something and the only thing that small is a baby, and I don't wanna fuck no babbies.[/QUOTE]
What kind of weird fucking babies are you around that are as small as a controller?

[spoiler]let me guess, you are going to say monkey babies[/spoiler]

[QUOTE=Thunder Monkey;36391262]Hows about gripping something in a strange position for hours?

Honestly I just get creeped out by old school controllers because I'm holding the controller like [B][U]I'm getting ready to fuck something and the only thing that small is a baby[/U][/B], and I don't wanna fuck no babbies.[/QUOTE]



hey now, don't..... you know.... so how small are we talking about?
on topic, all next gen consoles will have a "gimmick" controller. the trick is to pick which is one is less intrusive to regular games.

[QUOTE=bigtroyjon;36391977]What kind of weird fucking babies are you around that are as small as a controller?

[spoiler]let me guess, you are going to say monkey babies[/spoiler][/QUOTE]

It even has the stubby little legs you sick fucks!

[QUOTE=Derrick01;36391377]You're going to look away from the screen while the game's running, potentially having something happen while you're not looking?

Also what would be the point? Whether you're looking down to check something or doing it through a pause menu, you're still not playing the game. Therefore I repeat...it's a gimmick.[/QUOTE]
Isn't that what happens in "real life," though? You need to look down at something and/or read something before you know how to proceed. Maybe you should find a safe place in-game, before you can divert your attention to something you're carrying? Seems pretty realistic to me.

[QUOTE=BowieZ;36392063]Isn't that what happens in "real life," though? You need to look down at something and/or read something before you know how to proceed. Maybe you should find a safe place in-game, before you can divert your attention to something you're carrying? Seems pretty realistic to me.[/QUOTE]

It would indeed add to the sense of realism, which is quite admirable.

"Umm.. hold-on a sec, Mr Zombie. I need to pause to look at my map here. Ah.. mmm.. okay, now I see where I missed my turn. It was two rooms back and to my right! Silly me! Okay then.. unpause! Now, what business did you have with me, Mr Zombie? I'm ready to proceed!"

[QUOTE=BowieZ;36392063]Isn't that what happens in "real life," though? You need to look down at something and/or read something before you know how to proceed. Maybe you should find a safe place in-game, before you can divert your attention to something you're carrying? Seems pretty realistic to me.[/QUOTE]

Yeah no thanks I'll take a pause screen like 99% of every game ever made. Dark Souls if anything reminded me how much I hate not having one for when the phone rings or whatever. The one thing it didn't make me do is think "realism".

[QUOTE=Thoraxes;36388023]Is PC gaming going to be where we all go to use normal controllers? :/

I mean, i'm fine with one person doing something different (whoever is first to that), but FFS just keep your shit normal everyone else who follows. God damn.[/QUOTE]
I'd be pretty sad if the next Playstation didn't come with a Dualshock 4 as standard.

[QUOTE=Thunder Monkey;36391262]Hows about gripping something in a strange position for hours?

Honestly I just get creeped out by old school controllers because I'm holding the controller like I'm getting ready to fuck something and the only thing that small is a baby, and I don't wanna fuck no babbies.[/QUOTE]

Hahahaha, I love you you hairy little bastard. :)

[QUOTE=AzaK;36400350]Hahahaha, I love you you hairy little bastard. :)[/QUOTE]

That's my nickname for his...nevermind.