[QUOTE=Cheebo;35011750]If so I hope MS does multi-touch. Nintendo dropped the ball with Wii U's. Single-touch touch screens are really outdated.[/QUOTE]

You realize it has buttons and slide pads, right? It doesn't need multi-touch.

[QUOTE=GavinGT;34996431]Why are people just assuming this crap is true? Confidence in the Wii U is at an all-time low.[/QUOTE]

I agree entirely. We can see that even the Nintendo faithful aren't onboard with the WiiU as they desperately try to convince themselves that it will be just as (or near as) powerful as the next consoles from MS and Nintendo.

This is just more people trying to second guess the what the industry will do next. Did anyone get those early "Project Revolution' rumours right?

[QUOTE=Busty;35020826]I agree entirely. We can see that even the Nintendo faithful aren't onboard with the WiiU as they desperately try to convince themselves that it will be just as (or near as) powerful as the next consoles from MS and Nintendo.

This is just more people trying to second guess the what the industry will do next. Did anyone get those early "Project Revolution' rumours right?[/QUOTE]

As far as GAF goes, most of us seem to think that the Wii U is going to be slightly more powerful than the 360 and PS3 and with better performance. Those of us who think the Wii U is going to be a even half a generational leap in graphics are probably delusional. Nintendo apparently wants to find a balance of power, controller innovation, and affordability.

[QUOTE=elcranky;35020299]There is really very little to argue about. MS clearly dominated the conference in recent years from a corporate strategy view point, which is really the only rational way to judge the conference. I think you are confusing most entertaining or pandering with most effective.

The ESPN app alone is >> than the last several years of Nintendo and Sony conferences.[/QUOTE]

Yeah... I know when I want games the company I go for is the one with the best corporate strategy.

[QUOTE=Broadbandito;34996170]just give me a regular controller, FUCK[/QUOTE]

This.

Plz don't ruin my immaculate 360 controller.

It's perfection (sans D-Pad and Joysticks becoming lose after too much use)

Every time I read the phrase "Nintendo faithful," I can literally feel my IQ drop a little. All extreme fans are annoying regardless of the company or product they like.

Microsoft said in an interview that they started with their next Xbox directly after the 360 launch. Nintendo started working with the Wii U 3 years (?) ago.
Makes you wonder who's following who this time around...

[QUOTE=Vinci;35020739]You realize it has buttons and slide pads, right? It doesn't need multi-touch.[/QUOTE]

The fact I can't touch the screen with more than one finger at a time and have them perform gestures is just so weak regardless. People have come to grown accustomed to being able to perform gestures and use more than one finger at a time on smartphones and tablets. Even with buttons only having single touch is so limiting these days.

3DS is different, it is stylus based. But any sort of touch screen that is finger based has got to multi-touch. Growing used to using a iPad, iPhone, iPod Touches, Android phones/tablets, etc and not performing gestures on a screen like that is just such a odd concept.

[QUOTE=Hiltz;35020919]Those of us who think the Wii U is going to be a even half a generational leap in graphics are probably delusional. Nintendo apparently wants to find a balance of power, controller innovation, and affordability.[/QUOTE]

I agree with this. I think that is the position that Nintendo will take with the WiiU.

[QUOTE=Hiltz;35020919]Uh [B][U]most[/U][/B] of us seem to think that the Wii U is going to be closer to the the 360 and PS3 in terms of graphics but with just better performance.[/QUOTE]

I disagree with this strongly. Just have a look in todays UE4 thread.

[QUOTE=Hiltz;35020919]As far as GAF goes, most of us seem to think that the Wii U is going to be closer to the the 360 and PS3 in terms of graphics but with just better performance. Those of us who think the Wii U is going to be a even half a generational leap in graphics are probably delusional. Nintendo apparently wants to find a balance of power, controller innovation, and affordability.[/QUOTE]

Personally I'm expecting something more powerful than the PS360 that couldn't be called a generational leap above them. I think nintendo would be happy to not force sony and ms into a new generation for a year or three.

[QUOTE=Hiltz;35020919]As far as GAF goes, most of us seem to think that the Wii U is going to be slightly more powerful than the 360 and PS3 and with better performance. Those of us who think the Wii U is going to be a even half a generational leap in graphics are probably delusional. Nintendo apparently wants to find a balance of power, controller innovation, and affordability.[/QUOTE]

What about the people who have seen the devkits that say it is more powerful the ps360? Delusional developers ....
[QUOTE=Grampa Simpson;35021062]Personally I'm expecting something more powerful than the PS360 that couldn't be called a generational leap above them. I think nintendo would be happy to not force sony and ms into a new generation for a year or three.[/QUOTE]

NINTENDO 's next machine will be a next gen system regardless of power.

[QUOTE=Cheebo;35021014]The fact I can't touch the screen with more than one finger at a time and have them perform gestures is just so weak regardless. People have come to grown accustomed to being able to perform gestures and use more than one finger at a time on smartphones and tablets. Even with buttons only having single touch is so limiting these days.[/QUOTE]

Depends heavily on how games utilize the screen, but I find it odd that so many people seem to hit this strange middle ground of: I want a traditional controller without a touchscreen, but if it's going to have a touchscreen it needs to be multitouch.

Um... The Wii U screen is designed for a stylus as well, so is the 3DS excused but the Wii U isn't?

[QUOTE=Vinci;35021107]Depends heavily on how games utilize the screen, but I find it odd that so many people seem to hit this strange middle ground of: I want a traditional controller without a touchscreen, but if it's going to have a touchscreen it needs to be multitouch.

Um... The Wii U screen is designed for a stylus as well, so is the 3DS excused but the Wii U isn't?[/QUOTE]

Well it's basically that single touch is pretty much a out-dated form of tech. Nintendo's insistance on sticking to it is baffling.

If MS does indeed go the tablet controller route I doubt they would half-ass it and it will just cause the Wii U to be severly limited in terms of ports and concepts on how to use the controller for games(if you have ever used an iPad or even a Android tablet you can tell just how literally impossible it would be to use if you were limited to single touch. It'd be as limiting as replacing a mouse with just a directional pad on a computer).

[QUOTE]Microsoft are playing it safe with the CPU and GPU but running wild with the functions that will change how you play, but it won't be cheap."
[/QUOTE]

this is the exact opposite of what i want in my next gen console.

well, not really, this might be interesting as media hub, but this sounds more and more like a mini-gimmick-games console.

[QUOTE=Grecco;34998005]You mean Apple.[/QUOTE]
Don't you mean DS? The thing that was popular years before the iPhone existed? There were already 36 million DSes out there riding a huge wave of popularity by the time the iPhone was even announced.

And even then, it was another year and a half before the App Store. By that point there were 77.54 million DSes in the wild. Let's not forget how big of a hand Nintendo had in popularizing touch screen gaming. It was unheard of on a mainstream level before then.

Well if they do it I hope they show up Nintendo with capacitve and multitouch.

[QUOTE=upJTboogie;35021478]Well if they do it I hope they show up Nintendo with capacitve and multitouch.[/QUOTE]


No need for either, but I'm sure if this is true it'll happen just for the "omg gimpy Nintendo" arguments sake.

[QUOTE=Busty;35020826]I agree entirely. We can see that even the Nintendo faithful aren't onboard with the WiiU as they desperately try to convince themselves that it will be just as (or near as) powerful as the next consoles from MS and Nintendo.

This is just more people trying to second guess the what the industry will do next. Did anyone get those early "Project Revolution' rumours right?[/QUOTE]

I'm perfectly fine with the wii U only being a reasonably small upgrade over last gen. Getting nintendos games in HD is in itself a mouth watering thing to look forward to.

[QUOTE=Dicer;35021520]No need for either, but I'm sure if this is true it'll happen just for the "omg gimpy Nintendo" arguments sake.[/QUOTE]

And it would gimp Nintendo. There is a HUUUUGE difference between multi-touch and single-touch. Single-touch is a complete out-dated joke compared to multi-touch. You couldn't have an iPad without multi-touch. Or smartphones in general.

Modern touch screen controls and touch screen usage are basically impossible without gestures.

[QUOTE=themadcowtipper;35021102]

NINTENDO 's next machine will be a next gen system regardless of power.[/QUOTE]

Why people refuse to accept this is beyond me.

[QUOTE=Cheebo;35021585]And it would gimp Nintendo. There is a HUUUUGE difference between multi-touch and single-touch. Single-touch is a complete out-dated joke compared to multi-touch. You couldn't have an iPad without multi-touch. Or smartphones in general.

Modern touch screen controls are basically impossible without gestures.[/QUOTE]

Smartphones and tablets don't have buttons. How hard is it to understand multitouch is meant to cram more functionality into the touch screen [B]because the devices lack any other input methods[/B]

[QUOTE=Cheebo;35021585]And it would gimp Nintendo. There is a HUUUUGE difference between multi-touch and single-touch. Single-touch is a complete out-dated joke compared to multi-touch. You couldn't have an iPad without multi-touch. Or smartphones in general.

Modern touch screen controls are basically impossible without gestures.[/QUOTE]

buttons....not gonna debate this.

[QUOTE=Cheebo;35021585]And it would gimp Nintendo. There is a HUUUUGE difference between multi-touch and single-touch. Single-touch is a complete out-dated joke compared to multi-touch. You couldn't have an iPad without multi-touch. Or smartphones in general.

Modern touch screen controls and touch screen usage are basically impossible without gestures.[/QUOTE]

Hard to disagree. It's like the difference between a one-button mouse, and a three-button mouse with a wheel. My microwave is single-touch :)

Hell even the Nano has a two-finger gesture (screen rotation).

[QUOTE=Zoramon089;35021678]Smartphones and tablets don't have buttons. How hard is it to understand multitouch is meant to cram more functionality into the touch screen [B]because the devices lack any other input methods[/B][/QUOTE]
Being able to pinch things, to zoom on the fly, move multiple objects around. Swipe with more than one finger, draw multiple objects/lines. Select multiple things, move parts of the screen in multiple directions at once. Things much quicker on a touch screen than with button controls. All of which is impossible on Wii U and can have a lot of added benefit to gameplay.

I can't imagine using a map on a touch screen for a game without pinch to zoom & shrink.

I would be shocked if MS had a tablet controller without multi-touch. Windows 8 is heavily gesture based, they know the importance of gestures to touch screens.

[QUOTE=PortTwo;35021727]Hard to disagree. It's like the difference between a one-button mouse, and a three-button mouse with a wheel. My microwave is single-touch :)[/QUOTE]

It's more like the difference between Apple's magic mouse and a standard mouse...which do you think is analogous to a multitouch screen? Hint: Not the traditional mouse.

[QUOTE=Cheebo;35021585]And it would gimp Nintendo. There is a HUUUUGE difference between multi-touch and single-touch. Single-touch is a complete out-dated joke compared to multi-touch. You couldn't have an iPad without multi-touch. Or smartphones in general.[/QUOTE]
The DS has never felt lacking without multitouch. The only reason multitouch is essential for game control on tablets and smartphones is because there are no physical buttons. The Wii U controller doesn't have this problem. The only other application I have seen for multitouch is for multiplayer games on the same tablet - those sort of air hockey style things. But they're all shite. The Wii U controller will be used by 1 player 99.9% of the time, so that's not even worth thinking about.

[QUOTE=Cheebo;35021743]Being able to pinch things, to zoom on the fly, move multiple objects around. Swipe with more than one finger, draw multiple objects/lines. Select multiple things, move parts of the screen in multiple directions at once. [B]Things much quicker on a touch screen than with button controls.[/B] All of which is impossible on Wii U and can have a lot of added benefit to gameplay.[/QUOTE]
Um. Not really. I dunno what crappy tablet games you've been playing, but I can't think of a single decent iOS game that has used multitouch for anything past a novelty, or for simply replacing physical buttons.

[QUOTE=Cheebo;35021743]Being able to pinch things, to zoom on the fly, move multiple objects around. Swipe with more than one finger, draw multiple objects/lines. Select multiple things, move parts of the screen in multiple directions at once. Things much quicker on a touch screen than with button controls. All of which is impossible on Wii U and can have a lot of added benefit to gameplay.[/quote]Touch controls are dead except for the most simplistic of tasks. Nintendo's initial excuse for not including a second analog on the 3DS was because they wanted people to use touchscreen controls. Nope. They wanted a stick.
Multitouch might make internet browsing a tad better, but stop kidding yourself about its affect on actual games.

[quote]I would be shocked if MS had a tablet controller without multi-touch. Windows 8 is heavily gesture based, they know the importance of gestures to touch screens.[/QUOTE]They probably will. Just to make people like you think its actually that much more awesome.

I still think this rumour is nothing more than a Windows 8 App that ties into the xbox. So any Windows 8 device with touch would be able to sync up with a xbox and it would have special functionality.

Even then I think it is something they are messing around with and not something that will come in the box on day one. (How many of those pre Kinect motion controls shown came to fruition)?

[QUOTE=Pazuzu9;35021942]The DS has never felt lacking without multitouch. The only reason multitouch is essential for game control on tablets and smartphones is because there are no physical buttons. The Wii U controller doesn't have this problem. The only other application I have seen for multitouch is for multiplayer games on the same tablet - those sort of air hockey style things. But they're all shite. The Wii U controller will be used by 1 player 99.9% of the time, so that's not even worth thinking about.


Um. Not really. I dunno what crappy tablet games you've been playing, but I can't think of a single decent iOS game that has used multitouch for anything past a novelty, or for simply replacing physical buttons.[/QUOTE]

You are completely ignoring gestures. Pinch to zoom is a huge feature on tablet and smart phones and is essential if you are displaying any kind of map for a game on a tablet sized screen. Not to mention using multiple fingers to swipe to quickly switch screens. Stuff like that would be extremely useful on this type of controller being described.

I'm just waiting for Nintendo to pull a bait and switch come Wii-U launch.

'Oh, that tablet thing? No, those were just concepts that we toyed around with. Ultimately we discovered that they were a pointless addition that added no real value to the gaming experience.'

Microsoft and Sony following the supposed losing team of this gen is too fucking good.

[QUOTE=Grampa Simpson;35021062]Personally I'm expecting something more powerful than the PS360 that couldn't be called a generational leap above them. I think nintendo would be happy to not force sony and ms into a new generation for a year or three.[/QUOTE]

You're referring to a transitional generation for Nintendo? If so, then I agree.


[QUOTE=themadcowtipper;35021102]What about the people who have seen the devkits that say it is more powerful the ps360? Delusional developers ....


NINTENDO 's next machine will be a next gen system regardless of power.[/QUOTE]

How much power is the question.

You're right that the Wii U will be classified as a next-gen system. Heck, even the Wii was. We just had to get used to how Nintendo ended up redefining the term "next-gen."

[QUOTE=Hiltz;35022100]You're referring to a transitional generation for Nintendo? If so, then I agree.




How much power is the question.

You're right that the Wii U will be classified as a next-gen system. Heck, even the Wii was. The industry just had to get used to how Nintendo ended up redefining what next-gen used to mean.[/QUOTE]

It has nothing to do with nintendo or power. New system have always been referred to as next gen. Ms could slap an xbox logo on an atari 2600, release it and it would be a new generation of machines.

[QUOTE=Cheebo;35022081]You are completely ignoring gestures. Pinch to zoom is a huge feature on tablet and smart phones and is essential if you are displaying any kind of map for a game on a tablet sized screen. Not to mention using multiple fingers to swipe to quickly switch screens. Stuff like that would be extremely useful on this type of controller being described.[/QUOTE]IF tablets and smartphones were created in a way that you had to hold them like controllers, and on each side your default hand positions were on top of an analog stick and buttons were more easily accessible to your hands than the actual screens then..
No one would use or need multi touch controls.

NintenDO... and the rest follows?

[QUOTE=themadcowtipper;35022264]It has nothing to do with nintendo or power. New system have always been referred to as next gen.[/QUOTE]

Yes, that's the truth. However, the way in which the industry has marketed their next-gen video game systems has always been based around how much better the graphics are. It's why many gamers and even some developers refused to perceive the Wii as being next-gen when it lacked a full generational leap in graphics. However, it was still a new home console and one that was still technically superior to the GameCube even though the difference was minimal. In addition, the console's focus was on motion control over HD graphics , but it does have an online service (which has become a new standard feature for new game systems to have thanks to Xbox). Nintendo just used a side-step disruptive strategy in attempt to achieve its goals with the Wii that largely defied tradition.

[QUOTE=Loofy;35022558]IF tablets and smartphones were created in a way that you had to hold them like controllers, and on each side your default hand positions were on top of a analog stick and buttons were more easily accessible to your hands than the actual screens then..
No one would use or need multi touch controls.[/QUOTE]

But the buttons would be being used to control the in-game action. You'd be pinching to zoom the map on the screen or multiple fingers to be able to have it quickly flick through screens on the touch screen. Stuff like that just makes things easier.

[QUOTE=Cheebo;35022658]But the buttons would be being used to control the in-game action. You'd be pinching to zoom the map on the screen or multiple fingers to be able to have it quickly flick through screens on the touch screen. Stuff like that just makes things easier.[/QUOTE]If the buttons are being used for action then having to lift your hand up to pinch and zoom would be pretty unintuitive.
Unless you mean it wouldnt be during action, in which case they could make the buttons context sensitive.

[QUOTE=Loofy;35022733]If the buttons are being used for action then having to lift your hand up to pinch and zoom would be pretty unintuitive.
Unless you mean it wouldnt be during action, in which case they could make the buttons context sensitive.[/QUOTE]

There are always work arounds, but there shouldn't have to be. The simplest way should be the way it is. Especially when every modern touch screen device I can think of is multi-touch other than Nintendo's. Even the cheap black and white kindle touchs are multi-touch since it is needed for stuff like pinch to zoom.

It's a feature that would help, and was confusingly left out. If this is the path MS is also going I don't expect them to leave it out.

[QUOTE=Cheebo;35021743]

I can't imagine using a map on a touch screen for a game without pinch to zoom & shrink.
[/QUOTE]


double tap to zoom

zoom bar on the left of the screen

buttons

Doesn't take much imagination.

[QUOTE=Cheebo;35022820]There are always work arounds, but there shouldn't have to be.[/QUOTE]Multitouch is a workaround for not having buttons.

For example. When playing games with a mouse(archaic technology I know) the mousewheel is alot better to zoom in and out than pinching.

fucking lol at all of the people still arguing that resistive touch is better than capacitive, or that there's something wrong with having multitouch and buttons at the same time

Feels like the resistive vs capacitive thread all over again. Nintendo can use what they want, but I just hope if MS is doing a tablet screen, they use the better technology.

[QUOTE=upJTboogie;35023122]Feels like the resistive vs capacitive thread all over again. Nintendo can use what they want, but I just hope if MS is doing a tablet screen, they use the better technology.[/QUOTE]Yes, the one that allows you to wear gloves and still use...

[QUOTE=Loofy;35023185]Yes, the one that allows you to wear gloves and still use...[/QUOTE]

this will be useful for all that below-freezing indoor console gaming i do

[quote=Loofy;35023185]Yes, the one that allows you to wear gloves and still use...[/quote]
Lol, Uh huh.

Single touch would be a failure in my eyes. The ability to make gestures opens up so many possibilities.

[QUOTE=upJTboogie;35023122]Feels like the resistive vs capacitive thread all over again. Nintendo can use what they want, but I just hope if MS is doing a tablet screen, they use the better technology.[/QUOTE]

Mouse and Keyboard?

[QUOTE=upJTboogie;35023247]Lol, Uh huh.[/QUOTE]Half joking. I do know that alot of professional graphics tablets use resistive screens. Have capacitive screens reached the same level?

Are single touch devices even out there anymore? I mean even my cheap HTC from 2010 has multi touch so I wonder if Nintendo will update the specs once the Wii U comes closer to release. I believe you have to look really hard by the end of 2012 to get single touch technology. Not that a game controller needs it anyway.

[QUOTE=GreggTheGrimReaper;35023538]Are single touch devices even out there anymore? I mean even my cheap HTC from 2010 has multi touch so I wonder if Nintendo will update the specs once the Wii U comes closer to release. I believe you have to look really hard by the end of 2012 to get single touch technology. Not that a game controller needs it anyway.[/QUOTE]

-Nintendo DS
-Nintendo 3DS
-Nintendo Wii U
-cheap chinese knockoff smartphones