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-   -   Metal Gear Solid 3D demo on eShop this week (http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=462935)

steveovig 02-20-2012 01:39 AM

Got around to DL'ing this and Mario/Sonic today and I'm not impressed by MGS at all. Having just gotten through the PS3 version last month, this thing feels terrible. I thought because I loved the PS3 version so much that I would buy the 3DS version but I've changed my mind. I do wonder how the CPP plays with this thing though but not enough to buy one just for this. I couldn't get into RE either, btw.

Andrex 02-20-2012 01:43 AM

[QUOTE=Vyse The Legend;35281573]I would say the cutscenes look better in 3D, even with hiccups. EVA's 3D boobs, ftw.

In general, though, some of the water effects (motion and reflections) make some environments look better, and there are more details on the models, even if the overall poly count is lower.

This game is optimized top to bottom for 3D, so if you can't see 3D, a lot of its charm will be lost to you.

Edit: The texture work in general is good, infinitely better than Peace Walker. You do come across some random ones that are offensive, like the tree vines.

Side note: making photo camo is pretty fun. You can make custom camo that is so good that you get 100% camo index.

And, since the game just uses your photo gallery, sharing good prints should be pretty simple.[/QUOTE]

OK I was on the fence, but now I'm sold. Thanks Vyse. :)

Vyse The Legend 02-20-2012 02:04 AM

[QUOTE=Billychu;35285358]What does this mean?[/QUOTE]This means that the performance is the same with 3D on or off. They clearly optimized the game around having 3D on at all times, and the effect in many cutscenes is amazing. They use a lot of angles and shader effects to make the 3D effect pop. Without it, it just looks like regular Snake Eater.

Jimmy Stav 02-20-2012 02:22 AM

There's no reason to expect a "limited print run" (as with Tales of the Abyss) is there? I [i]really[/i] want to play this game at some point soon-ish, but I barely have time for the aforementioned Tales as it is.

Rodney McKay 02-20-2012 02:22 AM

I'm getting more and more worried that Pilot Wings 3DS has spoiled me on 3D for this system.

It had such a crazy strong 3D effect and I eventually got used to (even at 3/4 or half strength or so).

Now there are games like Mario 3D Land and Metal Gear where people say the 3D effect is great, but I can barely tell it's on even with the slider at max. :(

Ridley327 02-20-2012 02:26 AM

[QUOTE=Jimmy Stav;35287695]There's no reason to expect a "limited print run" (as with Tales of the Abyss) is there? I [i]really[/i] want to play this game at some point soon-ish, but I barely have time for the aforementioned Tales as it is.[/QUOTE]

On one hand, it's a MGS title; outside of MGS2:S, Konami has never been in much of a habit of pressing too few copies.

On the other hand, Konami has been trying really hard to sabotage everything about this game.

kunonabi 02-20-2012 02:29 AM

[QUOTE=Ridley327;35287812]On one hand, it's a MGS title; outside of MGS2:S, Konami has never been in much of a habit of pressing too few copies.

On the other hand, Konami has been trying really hard to sabotage everything about this game.[/QUOTE]

Konami tries to sabotage all their games. At least there aren't two other MGS games coming out this month.

Andrex 02-20-2012 02:34 AM

[QUOTE=kunonabi;35287928]Konami tries to sabotage all their games. At least there aren't two other MGS games coming out this month.[/QUOTE]

[url=http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=458720]This is a Silent Hill joke[/url], for those unawares.

Naked Snake 02-20-2012 02:38 AM

[QUOTE=Vyse The Legend;35287133]This means that the performance is the same with 3D on or off. They clearly optimized the game around having 3D on at all times, and the effect in many cutscenes is amazing. They use a lot of angles and shader effects to make the 3D effect pop. Without it, it just looks like regular Snake Eater.[/QUOTE]

This, and your previous post mentioning other aspects of enhanced visuals has sold me on the game. I was going to wait for a price drop, but I see Amazon is offering $10 credit for pre-orders, that's as good as a price drop for me. I guess I'm biting... been doing a lot of impulse buying the past few days.

And I like the boxart!

UncleSporky 02-20-2012 03:10 AM

Good to hear Vyse's impressions.

Anything else to report? Any other areas that are specifically much worse than on PS2, or noticeably better?

Is it pretty much the same situation straight on through the game, same frame rate in every cut scene, same rate during gameplay?

jtrov 02-20-2012 05:48 AM

Got a chance to download the demo during the weekend and I thoroughly enjoyed what I played. As someone who beat Peace Walker with the same control scheme, I had no problems with the controls in the Snake Eater demo. The controls in the demo felt really good in my opinion. Item management was a lot easier now that you could use either the d-pad or touch screen to swap out equipment and being able to toggle the aim type from the touch-pad is a nice addition. Excited to play through MGS3 again, but now on the go and in 3D (which I though looked really good in the demo).

Preordered it today from Amazon and got $10 credit for doing so. So I'm happy with my decision. Can't wait for this and Syndicate to be in my hands come this Tuesday.

hayejin 02-20-2012 05:56 AM

[QUOTE=jtrov;35294336]

Preordered it today from Amazon and got $10 credit for doing so. So I'm happy with my decision. Can't wait for this and Syndicate to be in my hands come this Tuesday.[/QUOTE]

Opposite for me. I cancelled my pre-order. I wasn't underwhelmed by the demo but I'm kinda burned out from MGS having played HD. Although I had no problem with the control I just didn't look forward playing the boss fights using buttons to aim.

sfried 02-20-2012 06:07 AM

[QUOTE=Vyse The Legend;35280664]CPP works absolutely fine. So, Yes, this game isn't for you.[/QUOTE]Thanks to a GS employee giving me a heads up where to find a CPP early rather than waiting for April, I was able to snag one and test it on the MGS3D demo.

Yeah, even with the CPP controls, some commands seem as awkward as ever, such as selecting items (you have to HOLD the Item or Weapon Equip/Unequip button to scroll through the list), and the crouching "stages" being dependent on how long you press down. M guess is this has something to do with MGS3 adopting the legacy control setup the original had (MGS had a similar hold Item or Weapon Equip/Unequip button to scroll concept), but I feel Capcom did it better with RE:R's quick weapon switch, which wasn't too complicated given the fact they use nearly the exact Pad setup. However, once I got used to it, the gameplay became second nature.

I might actually stick with the Peace Walker scheme when the game comes out. Ironically the CPP only complicated the controls even further for me. I'd rather have simple but complex CPPless controls like Ace Combat Assault Horizon Legacy's or RE:R's.
[QUOTE=hayejin;35294588]Opposite for me. I cancelled my pre-order. I wasn't underwhelmed by the demo but I'm kinda burned out from MGS having played HD. Although I had no problem with the control I just didn't look forward playing the boss fights using buttons to aim.[/QUOTE]I'd rather keep that preorder if I were you. HD isn't a reason to dump this version.

Andrex 02-20-2012 06:10 AM

[QUOTE=sfried;35294800]you have to HOLD the Item or Weapon Equip/Unequip button to scroll through the list[/QUOTE]

So it's like Monster Hunter?

sfried 02-20-2012 06:20 AM

[QUOTE=Andrex;35294867]So it's like Monster Hunter?[/QUOTE]
To a certain extent it DID remind me of Monster Hunter. But then again it was only relegated to the Item button I believe.

Anth0ny 02-20-2012 06:24 AM

The demo was brutal imo. Very ugly, and controls were bad.

I think I'll be fine with my HD version. I may pick up the Vita HD version too. This 3DS version... I'll wait til it's $10.

Andrex 02-20-2012 06:27 AM

[QUOTE=sfried;35295042]To a certain extent it DID remind me of Monster Hunter. But then again it was only relegated to the Item button I believe.[/QUOTE]

I find the MH way pretty efficient, after you climb the learning curve. My only issue with the system is you have to hold the button for slightly longer than you'd think, because the game has to make sure you didn't mean to just use the current item. I've wasted many an item cause of that. :(

Jimmy Stav 02-20-2012 07:50 AM

Seriously, fuck this anxiety I have for potential scarcity. I REALLY don't need to buy this right now.

Emitan 02-20-2012 07:52 AM

[QUOTE=Rocket Punch;35286432][URL="http://www.maximumpc.com/article/news/study_one_ten_people_can%E2%80%99t_see_3d"]One in 10 people can't see 3D[/URL][/QUOTE]

No, I know that. I can see 3D but have tons of issues processing it due to really poor depth perception.

[QUOTE=Vyse The Legend;35287133]This means that the performance is the same with 3D on or off. They clearly optimized the game around having 3D on at all times, and the effect in many cutscenes is amazing. They use a lot of angles and shader effects to make the 3D effect pop. Without it, it just looks like regular Snake Eater.[/QUOTE]

Oh, well I don't give a fuck about 3D so I don't really care about that.

FlashbladeGAF 02-20-2012 08:06 AM

[QUOTE=Rodney McKay;35287700]I'm getting more and more worried that Pilot Wings 3DS has spoiled me on 3D for this system.

It had such a crazy strong 3D effect and I eventually got used to (even at 3/4 or half strength or so).

Now there are games like Mario 3D Land and Metal Gear where people say the[B] 3D effect is great, but I can barely tell it's on even with the slider at max. :([/B][/QUOTE]

Buy[B] Resident Evil Revelations[/B]. That's the new benchmark...

[B]In the options you can crank the 3D 2X stronger than the slider[/B]

SpaceBridge 02-20-2012 08:11 AM

[QUOTE=FlashbladeGAF;35296704]Buy[B] Resident Evil Revelations[/B]. That's the new benchmark...

[B]In the options you can crank the 3D 2X stronger than the slider[/B][/QUOTE]

what? really in RE REV?

dreamahm 02-20-2012 08:14 AM

[QUOTE]Here's what Edge had to say:

"Packed with detail, both in terms of it's environments and mechanics, this is a game that pays back investment in spades. MGS3 is a moden classic - the tighest, smartest and most emotional journey in the series - and even the HD update doesn't look as good as this portable treatment."

Here's what Nintendo Power had to say:

"A phenomenal game. Almost nothing was sacrificed in bringing the title to the Nintendo 3DS; from the opening scene to the powerful ending, every character model and every bit of excellent voice acting is intact, and the production values are sky-high." [/QUOTE]

Sorry if old.

Luigiv 02-20-2012 08:16 AM

[QUOTE=SpaceBridge;35296752]what? really in RE REV?[/QUOTE]

There's an option in the menu to switch between normal, strong and very strong 3D.

FlashbladeGAF 02-20-2012 08:19 AM

[QUOTE=SpaceBridge;35296752]what? really in RE REV?[/QUOTE]

I'll never take options for granted in a game ever again.

First it was being able to change the first person aiming to 3rd person like the console REs.
Then the icing on the cake was the 3D booster.

For once Capcom thought of everything.

Funny thing is (if I remember correctly) the option is[B] also in the demo[/B] so try it out

I didn't even know developers could do that...
...Why isnt it in every 3DS game :p

UncleSporky 02-20-2012 03:33 PM

Oh, I thought of another question for Vyse that I didn't see answered.

Can you cut the bridge's ropes in the full game? Was that the demo's failing, or did they take that out?

Naked Snake 02-20-2012 03:34 PM

How does the CPP change the controls other than aiming with the 2nd analog pad? Do the face buttons still function as camera controls or do they take on a different role? What about added shoulder buttons (the CPP has extra ones, no?)

Also why isn't there an official thread when the game is launching tomorrow?

Shoogoo 02-20-2012 03:48 PM

After playing through RE REV, this demo felt particularly bland.

I didn't finish it (I was near the end I guess), had to leave for work, but I'll give it another shot with lowered expectations.

dark10x 02-20-2012 04:03 PM

So how IS the framerate in the final version? Any videos out there?

I'm curious if it's still limited to 20 fps like the demo.

web01 02-20-2012 04:13 PM

Been playing MGS3 HD and one thing I would kill for from the 3DS version apart from the 3D is the crouch walk. It is really weird only being able to crawl and walk/run, did people complain about this during the original release? Also miss all the abilities from MGS4 like playing dead (you have fake death pill but not the same) shooting and throwing grenades when lying on back etc. I would really kill for a full remake of this game on HD systems maybe next gen with the best features and controls of every game in the series combined.

Soi-Fong 02-20-2012 04:14 PM

[QUOTE=web01;35300488]Been playing MGS3 HD and one thing I would kill for from the 3DS version apart from the 3D is the crouch walk. It is so weird not only being able to crawl and run, did people complain about this during the original release? Also miss all the abilities MGS4 like playing dead shooting and throwing grenades when lying on back etc. I would really kill for a full remake of this game on HD systems maybe next gen.[/QUOTE]

This can be done on the Vita with far better graphics than 3DS can hope to achieve. Believe..

TheBanditKing 02-20-2012 04:30 PM

Played the demo 5 times now and I am just not impressed with it. the 3D transitions from third to first person hurt my eyes (so do the random tree trunks as I walk around). Frame rate could be better but not a deal breaker, the controls however are horrible. Granted I am not using a CPP but then again I don't want to buy one either, as I feel I should not have to. The controls really take away from the game in this version its just too awkward and slow to aim with the buttons, and the d pad for couching and weapon equipment is just bad. RE:Rev does just fine with out the CPP so its a shame this could not as well. Oh well Vita version or bust at this point for portable MGS.

UncleSporky 02-20-2012 04:34 PM

[QUOTE=Naked Snake;35299723]How does the CPP change the controls other than aiming with the 2nd analog pad? Do the face buttons still function as camera controls or do they take on a different role? What about added shoulder buttons (the CPP has extra ones, no?)[/QUOTE]

The face buttons do the same thing as the d-pad which is actually pretty nice, it's easier to go into a crouch while walking, for example.

L and R cycle through equipment (depending on your choice, equip/unequip, cycle through 3, etc.). ZL and ZR aim and fire.

[QUOTE=dark10x;35300264]So how IS the framerate in the final version? Any videos out there?

I'm curious if it's still limited to 20 fps like the demo.[/QUOTE]

Vyse has been saying over the last few pages that it's exactly like the demo (though not necessarily 20 FPS, it depends on the area, and gameplay vs. cutscene).


I just ordered the game at Amazon, thanks for the heads up jtrov. $40, release day shipping and $10 credit, whoo.

FlashbladeGAF 02-20-2012 04:36 PM

[QUOTE=Naked Snake;35299723][B]How does the CPP change the controls other than aiming with the 2nd analog pad[/B]? Do the face buttons still function as camera controls or do they take on a different role? What about added shoulder buttons (the CPP has extra ones, no?)

Also why isn't there an official thread when the game is launching tomorrow?[/QUOTE]

[B]CCP makes the game like the consoles [/B]

So 2nd analog stick is aiming/camera control R1 and R2 is shooting and weapon select and the buttons go back to auto aim toggle/action/crouch

fabricated backlash 02-20-2012 04:37 PM

[QUOTE=Soi-Fong;35300524]This can be done on the Vita with far better graphics than 3DS can hope to achieve. Believe..[/QUOTE]

Why even bother when you can release a PS2 port collection for it?

demolitio 02-20-2012 04:39 PM

I can't believe Edge said that the 3DS MGS3 looks better than the HD collection. :/

dallow_bg 02-20-2012 04:42 PM

[QUOTE=UncleSporky;35300851]
Vyse has been saying over the last few pages that it's exactly like the demo (though not necessarily 20 FPS, it depends on the area, and gameplay vs. cutscene).


I just ordered the game at Amazon, thanks for the heads up jtrov. $40, release day shipping and $10 credit, whoo.[/QUOTE]

That sucks, I'll wait a while on this.

dark10x 02-20-2012 04:42 PM

[QUOTE=UncleSporky;35300851]Vyse has been saying over the last few pages that it's exactly like the demo (though not necessarily 20 FPS, it depends on the area, and gameplay vs. cutscene).

just ordered the game at Amazon, thanks for the heads up jtrov. $40, release day shipping and $10 credit, whoo.[/QUOTE]

I see that now and am disappointed. I had a feeling I would be correct in my assumption that the final game would struggle but I'm kind of upset that I was right. :\

I already own four copies of MGS3, but I'm such a whore for the game and would like to experience this updated take on the mechanics (though I don't have a CPP so I dunno).

[QUOTE]I can't believe Edge said that the 3DS MGS3 looks better than the HD collection. :/[/QUOTE]
Their comment is especially insane if you take framerate into account.

Soi-Fong 02-20-2012 04:44 PM

[QUOTE=boris feinbrand;35300917]Why even bother when you can release a PS2 port collection for it?[/QUOTE]

Ooh you're right. They can make a completely new MGS for the Vita that'll far surpass this one that implements the rear touchpad and the twin analogs and even Near.

I have a 3DS myself, and I want dual analogs on games like this. I know the 3DS has the Analog add-on, but I won't be caught dead with that abomination on my 3DS. Last thing I want on my commute to class, is people asking me what I have attached to my 3DS and I tell them oh, it's Nintendo's incompetency of including a second analog right from the very beginning. Plus, analog nubs just aren't as good as real analogs such as the Vita or PS3's analogs.

Naked Snake 02-20-2012 04:46 PM

[QUOTE=UncleSporky;35300851]The face buttons do the same thing as the d-pad which is actually pretty nice, it's easier to go into a crouch while walking, for example.

L and R cycle through equipment (depending on your choice, equip/unequip, cycle through 3, etc.). ZL and ZR aim and fire.[/QUOTE]

Oh that sounds good. Now I kind of want a CPP, but I fear the comfort will be inferior to using my 3rd party grip. When is it going on sale and for how much?

Luigiv 02-20-2012 04:47 PM

[QUOTE=demolitio;35300952]I can't believe Edge said that the 3DS MGS3 looks better than the HD collection. :/[/QUOTE]

Well, in a way, it sort of does since it sports some fancy shader effects that the HD doesn't. However, on the other hand, it's hard to argue that those shaders (which are rather subtle to begin with) beat out the vastly improved image quality of the HD collection. I know I'd take IQ over effects in a lot of cases.

UncleSporky 02-20-2012 04:49 PM

[QUOTE=Naked Snake;35301110]Oh that sounds good. Now I kind of want a CPP, when is it going on sale and for how much?[/QUOTE]

It's $20 and available right now, I've played all through Revelations with it and it was quite comfortable for me. You can [URL="http://store.nintendo.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?productId=189708&currency=USD&catalogId=10001&tranId=0&lastAction=setCurr&storeId=10001&languageId=-1&categoryId=68209&ddkey=http:SetCurrencyPreference"]order it from Nintendo directly[/URL] or buy one at a Gamestop but reports say they're fairly rare to find right now.

Maxrunner 02-20-2012 04:50 PM

I cant understand why would someone pay for this troll atempt by Kojima really...there's much better games on the 3DS not even accounting that this a really bad port....

UncleSporky 02-20-2012 04:58 PM

[QUOTE=Maxrunner;35301216]I cant understand why would someone pay for this troll atempt by Kojima really...there's much better games on the 3DS not even accounting that this a really bad port....[/QUOTE]

Mostly I find all the naysayers and trolls kind of ridiculous at this point. Publications have already scored it highly, not everyone is bothered by the frame rate (I know I'm not), the improvements both in graphics and mechanics are noticeable, and it's the equivalent of $30 on Amazon right now.

MGS3 is MGS3, which is ultimately a great game. Vyse is disappointed by the frame rate but still says it's great stuff overall.

sfried 02-20-2012 05:07 PM

[QUOTE=UncleSporky;35301348]Mostly I find all the naysayers and trolls kind of ridiculous at this point. Publications have already scored it highly, not everyone is bothered by the frame rate (I know I'm not), the improvements both in graphics and mechanics are noticeable, and it's the equivalent of $30 on Amazon right now.

MGS3 is MGS3, which is ultimately a great game. Vyse is disappointed by the frame rate but still says it's great stuff overall.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Soi-Fong;35301065]I have a 3DS myself, and I want dual analogs on games like this. I know the 3DS has the Analog add-on, but I won't be caught dead with that abomination on my 3DS. Last thing I want on my commute to class, is people asking me what I have attached to my 3DS and I tell them oh, it's Nintendo's incompetency of including a second analog right from the very beginning. Plus, analog nubs just aren't as good as real analogs such as the Vita or PS3's analogs.[/QUOTE]I'll be frank: KojiPro has to step in line with how top tier developers like Project Aces or Capcom's RE:R team has handled the standard non-CPP controls for their games. They're fast, they're efficient, and they're easy to grasp and tweak to your liking. KojiPro took to this as another PSP title, rather than use their fresh start on the Nintendo handheld to streamline controls. I'm pretty aware they can do this given their work with Boktai. But why they stick to Peace Walker's setup and not revamp it for the sake of legacy still elludes me.

That said, I'm getting it to see what easter eggs they snuck in this time.

UncleSporky 02-20-2012 05:12 PM

I don't begrudge anyone who doesn't want to play it because they don't have a CPP. I can't imagine playing without it and didn't even try the demo without it. I am a little surprised that so many people basically don't acknowledge its existence, I guess I'm used to reading RE: Revelations threads and assuming everyone already has it for that game. Everyone's positive about it there, apparently the word needs to be spread again for MGS3. :P

dark10x 02-20-2012 05:15 PM

[QUOTE=Maxrunner;35301216]I cant understand why would someone pay for this troll atempt by Kojima really...there's much better games on the 3DS not even accounting that this a really bad port....[/QUOTE]
Uh, there really aren't that many "much better games" on 3DS. You have Mario, Revelations, Zelda, and a few others. I wouldn't say most of those are better than MGS3, however (though it's hard to compare, say, Mario Kart to MGS directly).

MGS3 is an incredible game on any platform and instantly becomes one of the best games on 3DS by virtue of the fact that it's MGS3.

[QUOTE] I am a little surprised that so many people basically don't acknowledge its existence[/QUOTE]
I refuse to purchase that add-on simply because it interferes with my use of the system (including the charging dock), adds a lot of bulk, and looks absolutely dreadful. I won't support something that was created as the result of a bone headed move by Nintendo.

sfried 02-20-2012 05:19 PM

[QUOTE=UncleSporky;35301603]I don't begrudge anyone who doesn't want to play it because they don't have a CPP. I can't imagine playing without it and didn't even try the demo without it. I am a little surprised that so many people basically don't acknowledge its existence, I guess I'm used to reading RE: Revelations threads and assuming everyone already has it for that game. Everyone's positive about it there, apparently the word needs to be spread again for MGS3. :P[/QUOTE]I don't use the CPP for RE:R. In fact I prefer not to since it complicates the layout even more, and actually find the gyro aiming the quickest and most precise method.

Same thing with CPP and MGS3: I tried it, and second analog stick feels great, but at the expense of the extra shoulder button convolution and still mapping the items to the pad. I wish they could still map the face buttons as regualr action commands rather than the camera for standard control setups.

Cheesecakebobby 02-20-2012 05:21 PM

I still can't decide, even after playing the demo (which was a bit overwhelming and difficult to control). I have never played MGS3, and the only other way I could play it is by buying the HD collection on 360, and I won't even be in the same country as my 360 until May. Also I don't have the CCP. Someone please make up my mind on my behalf.

dark10x 02-20-2012 05:23 PM

[QUOTE=Cheesecakebobby;35301796]I still can't decide, even after playing the demo (which was a bit overwhelming and difficult to control). I have never played MGS3, and the only other way I could play it is by buying the HD collection on 360, and I won't even be in the same country as my 360 until May. Also I don't have the CCP. Someone please make up my mind on my behalf.[/QUOTE]
Hmm, honestly, you'd have a better experience playing it on 360. However, if you have the time now, I'm sure the game itself is still great on 3DS despite its limitations.

Jimmy Stav 02-20-2012 05:46 PM

The text for the Edge review isn't online anywhere, is it? I need something push me over the edge (sorry), but I think my subscription just expired.

edit; nevermind, Zinio just wasn't updating.


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