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-   -   NOE: eShop age restrictions for the greater good (Applies to all of Europe) (http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=503130)

Panajev2001a 12-07-2012 08:39 AM

NOE: eShop age restrictions for the greater good (Applies to all of Europe)
 
Note: I think I might have encountered a way in which NOE is distinguishing itself from the other regional subsidiaries, as I could not see this problem raised by U.S. owners or JPN ones (the system is not even out in that region).

A few days ago, the thread starter here managed to destroy part of the PIN for NSMB U so I could not register it on my Nintendo Club account here in PAL land. I have the receipt, I have the game case, I have the PIN card slip with a bit of damage, but mostly in good conditions. So hey, let's scan it all and see if Nintendo's customers support could help me recover the code (and they did, so kudos to them as they kindly sent me the whole PIN number back in an e-mail... just telling this if you want the full story and would like a jab in the vein of "bite the hands which feeds you eh?").

I decided to also try to get another answer from the same message, I added a P.S. inquiring about my problem with the eShop. I noticed I could not access some sections of the store and I found it weird. Nintendo's Customer Support did ask me to explain the problem in more detail, so I replied with the exact message I could see on my GamePad when trying to access the Zombie U page.

I had found this thread on NeoGAF ([url]http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?p=44986488[/url]) dealing with it, but in the middle of the jokes about the OP's age the only thing coming up was something like "problem with their servers, must be a launch thing...".
From the series of e-mails I have exchanged thus far, it turns out that no... it is not a glitch in their system, but a purposefully built filter to add another layer of protection to minors, so that they can be protected from watching bad sections of the eShop targeted at adults.

"Won't somebody please think of the children?"
[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/AuHaOl.jpg[/IMG]

Here is part of the exchange of e-mails (the following images have been uploaded to Imgur, so I hope they do not disappear soon):

[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/yC6aS.png[/IMG]
Quick translation: "Dear customer, we would like to let you know that Nintendo has always aimed to offer gameplay experiences suited to all age groups, observing carefully all the relevant regulations regarding content access that are present in the various European countries.
We have thus decided to restrict the access to content which is unsuitable to minors (PEGI) to the 11 P.M. - 3 A.M. time window [...]"

[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/7dFRJ.png[/IMG]
Quick translation: "Dear customer, we would like to inform you that it is an additional precaution to make sure that minors cannot access content which is inappropriate for their age"

Note: my birthday is correctly set in my NNID account, I did mention this fact to Nintendo's customer support and I also specifically asked if this measure should affect a console with no parental controls or parental controls without restrictions (tried both kinds of settings). I wanted to make sure that it was neither a glitch nor something due to a mistake I might have made configuring my account. It turn out, as you can see in their answers, that not... it is part of a clearly stated internal policy.

Frankly, I think this is a paternalistic measure which does not instill confidence in their child accounts and the parental controls their platform offers. Also, it does not really respect me as an adult to be responsible and use them to make sure that a child (which my wife and I do not yet have) does not access contents which are not right for his age.

mrklaw 12-07-2012 08:44 AM

I'm in the UK and I have my parental controls set for my kids. I tested it by logging in as my son and trying to view the zombiU section on miiverse. The title still shows up but you aren't allowed to enter the community. Fine, that's how it's supposed to work. But I can see the community fine (just checked).


So this doesn't seem to be across all of Europe?


Edit : doh, can't view the content in the eshop. It says restricted hours but doesn't say what owe hours are, so I'm supposed to guess? So Ubisoft can't get my money until after 11pm?

Xater 12-07-2012 08:46 AM

[QUOTE=mrklaw;45157192]I'm in the UK and I have my parental controls set for my kids. I tested it by logging in as my son and trying to view the zombiU section on miiverse. The title still shows up but you aren't allowed to enter the community. Fine, that's how it's supposed to work. But I can see the community fine (just checked).


So this doesn't seem to be across all of Europe?[/QUOTE]

That's the standard here in Germany no matter the parental controls. Miiverse is not affected.

So it's the same as the OP describes it. It's totally stupid. I can view content rated 18 just fine on my PS3 or 360 at any time I want....

Panajev2001a 12-07-2012 08:48 AM

[QUOTE=mrklaw;45157192]I'm in the UK and I have my parental controls set for my kids. I tested it by logging in as my son and trying to view the zombiU section on miiverse. The title still shows up but you aren't allowed to enter the community. Fine, that's how it's supposed to work. But I can see the community fine (just checked).


So this doesn't seem to be across all of Europe?


Edit : doh, can't view the content in the eshop. It says restricted hours but doesn't say what owe hours are, so I'm supposed to guess? So Ubisoft can't get my money until after 11pm?[/QUOTE]

Apparently not...

Xater 12-07-2012 08:49 AM

Argh quoted instead of editing...

ezekial45 12-07-2012 08:49 AM

The Greater Good...

Fafalada 12-07-2012 08:52 AM

Guys you realize 1st of april is next year right... oh wait, you're serious.

...

Do adults get to pay less to Nintendo for hardware since they can only access certain functions for 4 hours a day?
What next - online games shut-off their service at 10pm because kids must sleep?

Ushojax 12-07-2012 08:53 AM

lol

NoE have returned to their old ways.

Ashler 12-07-2012 08:54 AM

With parental controls off, I still could not buy ZombiU in the e-Eshop before 23:00 and after 6:00 (Luxembourg). I think the limitation is across nintendo EU.

Panajev2001a 12-07-2012 08:55 AM

[QUOTE=Fafalada;45157314]Guys you realize 1st of april is next year right... oh wait, you're serious.

...

Do adults get to pay less to Nintendo for hardware since they can only access certain functions for 4 hours a day?
What next - online games shut-off their service at 10pm because kids must sleep?[/QUOTE]

lol

fabricated backlash 12-07-2012 08:57 AM

[QUOTE=mrklaw;45157192]I'm in the UK and I have my parental controls set for my kids. I tested it by logging in as my son and trying to view the zombiU section on miiverse. The title still shows up but you aren't allowed to enter the community. Fine, that's how it's supposed to work. But I can see the community fine (just checked).


So this doesn't seem to be across all of Europe?


Edit : doh, can't view the content in the eshop. It says restricted hours but doesn't say what owe hours are, so I'm supposed to guess? So Ubisoft can't get my money until after 11pm?[/QUOTE]

This, to me is just outright pathethic. There are parental settings, get the fuck out of my purchasing habits you incompetent cretins.

This "feature" is probably the most idiotic of the many baffling shit decisions that Nintendo made with the customer side on the WiiU. It's incomprehensibly stupid, patronizing and frankly to me, I stopped going to the eshop until this is fixed for adult accounts.

What the flying fuck were they thinking. The incompetence on their part to provide a functional and fun user experience is just mind boggling.

There really needs to be a plattform for these issues, I'm sick and tired of just being restricted to complain about stuff like that on message boards as that is ultimately inconsequential.

Eusis 12-07-2012 08:58 AM

Is this an insane, probably meant for TV policy from one country (Germany?) being slapped on the entire region? Because it IS pretty insane to require people to stay up to near midnight just to buy or even see a game despite the fact they're not even on child accounts.

And yeah, it may not be the worst decision (inability to migrate to a new system painlessly at the moment definitely is), but this IS the stupidest.

mrklaw 12-07-2012 09:00 AM

My account - can see miiverse posts on wara wara, can enter miiverse community, can play zombiU from disc, can't view details or buy it from the eshop

My son's account - don't know about wara wara (his account isn't showing games yet) but I hope posts don't appear, can't enter miiverse community, can't view details or download on the eshop, but ca play zombiU from disc if I put the pin code in - it isn't blocked entirely.

Seems odd to restrict the eshop for adult accounts. Maybe we should pay 50p to prove we are adults?

Xater 12-07-2012 09:02 AM

[QUOTE=mrklaw;45157430]Seems odd to restrict the eshop for adult accounts. Maybe we should pay 50p to prove we are adults?[/QUOTE]

You know I'd do something like that just so I don't have to live with this stupid restriction.

Fafalada 12-07-2012 09:04 AM

[quote=Eusis]but this IS the stupidest.[/quote]
I really think adults should get the Wii-U cheaper.

Singapore goverment does this - you can buy Weekend-cars, which are cheaper, but you can't drive during the week. What Nintendo is doing is basically the same thing without the discounts.

mrklaw 12-07-2012 09:11 AM

Also, my son cannot add friends through miiverse because he is under 13. Even though I unlocked friends requests in his parental settings. H can add friends using the friends list, so both sides have to register.

Just checked after doing that he had proper games appear in his wara wara plaza. No sign of zombiU or BLOPs so it's not even showing blocked games and putting other things instead. That's ok

Kusagari 12-07-2012 09:15 AM

Do they think kids don't find ways to stay up until midnight anyway?

What a fucking absurd policy.

wsippel 12-07-2012 09:15 AM

TV content rated 18+ is also limited to 11pm to 3am, at least on German free to air stations. The limitation isn't in place because "lol Nintendo", they're simply following laws here. Granted, those laws were made for TV, but since there are no laws governing digital distribution, it's a gray area. Better to be safe than sorry.

Xater 12-07-2012 09:16 AM

[QUOTE=Kusagari;45157632]Do they think kids don't find ways to stay up until midnight anyway?

What a fucking absurd policy.[/QUOTE]

I am already looking forward to adjusting my schedule according to Nintendo so I can get the latest COD mappack!

[spoiler]Yeah, not gonna happen...[/spoiler]

[QUOTE=wsippel;45157648]TV content rated 18+ is also limited to 11pm to 3am, at least on German free to air stations. The limitation isn't in place because "lol Nintendo", they're simply following laws here. Granted, those laws were made for TV, but since there are no laws governing digital distribution, it's a gray area. Better to be safe than sorry.[/QUOTE]

Dude, like I mentioned the other consoles don't have this restriction and they are not in any grey area. It totally is just a weird Nintendo thing.

fabricated backlash 12-07-2012 09:19 AM

[QUOTE=Eusis;45157403]Is this an insane, probably meant for TV policy from one country (Germany?) being slapped on the entire region? Because it IS pretty insane to require people to stay up to near midnight just to buy or even see a game despite the fact they're not even on child accounts.

And yeah, it may not be the worst decision (inability to migrate to a new system painlessly at the moment definitely is), but this IS the stupidest.[/QUOTE]

Pretty much. German censorship and "child protecting" laws are idiotic to begin with. But Nintendo is so hell bent on complying with them, that they even go a step beyond that.
They are really going into uncharted territory of stupid here. It's amazing really... if it weren't so cringe inducingly idiotic.

Eusis 12-07-2012 09:19 AM

[QUOTE=Fafalada;45157483]I really think adults should get the Wii-U cheaper.

Singapore goverment does this - you can buy Weekend-cars, which are cheaper, but you can't drive during the week. What Nintendo is doing is basically the same thing without the discounts.[/QUOTE]
That'd be abused to hell, nevermind that most people getting Nintendo systems probably aren't counting on M rated games being the lion's share of what they play anyway, not unless they literally buy it only for No More Heroes or something.
[QUOTE=mrklaw;45157574]Also, my son cannot add friends through miiverse because he is under 13. Even though I unlocked friends requests in his parental settings. H can add friends using the friends list, so both sides have to register.

Just checked after doing that he had proper games appear in his wara wara plaza. No sign of zombiU or BLOPs so it's not even showing blocked games and putting other things instead. That's ok[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=wsippel;45157648]TV content rated 18+ is also limited to 11pm to 3am, at least on German free to air stations. The limitation isn't in place because "lol Nintendo", they're simply following laws here. Granted, those laws were made for TV, but since there are no laws governing digital distribution, it's a gray area. Better to be safe than sorry.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=fabricated backlash;45157690]Pretty much. German censorship and "child protecting" laws are idiotic to begin with. But Nintendo is so hell bent on complying with them, that they even go a step beyond that.
They are really going into uncharted territory of stupid here. It's amazing really... if it weren't so cringe inducingly idiotic.[/QUOTE]
Yeah, these are definitely cases of playing it safe and sticking with laws elsewhere then, given the restrictions on kids under 13 in the US for internet usage and now confirmation that, yes, this really IS Germany's fault, and it IS a law meant for TV that's just insane on a console. Worse in that it's probable they didn't even NEED to, but Nintendo goes by the policy of playing it as safe as they can, as Earthbound not coming to the VC possibly shows despite being one of the most desired NINTENDO games out there.

wsippel 12-07-2012 09:21 AM

[QUOTE=Xater;45157661]Dude, like I mentioned the other consoles don't have this restriction and they are not in any grey area. It totally is just a weird Nintendo thing.[/QUOTE]
Dude, they [I]are[/I] in a gray area. Also, the eShop is operated by NoE and NoE is a German company, so German laws apply.

tolkir 12-07-2012 09:22 AM

[QUOTE=wsippel;45157648]TV content rated 18+ is also limited to 11pm to 3am, at least on German free to air stations. The limitation isn't in place because "lol Nintendo", they're simply following laws here. Granted, those laws were made for TV, but since there are no laws governing digital distribution, it's a gray area. Better to be safe than sorry.[/QUOTE]

But each country has its own eshop. In Spain, doesn't exist that limitation and i can't access either.

Kusagari 12-07-2012 09:22 AM

[QUOTE=wsippel;45157648]TV content rated 18+ is also limited to 11pm to 3am, at least on German free to air stations. The limitation isn't in place because "lol Nintendo", they're simply following laws here. Granted, those laws were made for TV, but since there are no laws governing digital distribution, it's a gray area. Better to be safe than sorry.[/QUOTE]

How on Earth could tv content laws apply to buying a product from the internet?

Are you not allowed to see R rated movies in a German movie theater until 11 pm?

Xater 12-07-2012 09:26 AM

[QUOTE=wsippel;45157713]Dude, they [I]are[/I] in a gray area. Also, the eShop is operated by NoE and NoE is a German company, so German laws apply.[/QUOTE]

You are wrong. They are on the safe side because to buy something you have to use a credit card. To have one you have to be 18. You can buy points or money but those are officially rated 18. Also if what you say is true a shop like Amazon would not be able to display stuff that is 18 before 11pm with is not the case. If what you are saying is right we would have to hide everything rated 18 in brick and mortar stores as well. lol

Eusis 12-07-2012 09:26 AM

[QUOTE=Kusagari;45157733]How on Earth could tv content laws apply to buying a product from the internet?[/QUOTE]
We're talking about the one country in all of Europe that wants to use a different rating system with an obnoxiously huge logo even when the cases are very small (Vita cases almost look like a parody) and still outright bans games, they probably WOULD be insane and crack down there. And now that I know NoE's main branch is there that probably explains it, they may be more beholden to what Germany would want whereas the others might not care QUITE as much.

And I suspect this has to do with the videos and pictures, but why not just block video watching alone rather than the entire page? It doesn't seem like that restriction could actually apply to BUYING content.

wsippel 12-07-2012 09:27 AM

[QUOTE=Kusagari;45157733]How on Earth could tv content laws apply to buying a product from the internet?

Are you not allowed to see R rated movies in a German movie theater until 11 pm?[/QUOTE]
You don't even want to know how hard it is to order games rated 18+ on the Internet if you live in Germany. Just be happy that they follow TV regulations, not online shopping regulations.

Theaters are obviously different in that there are people checking your age when you enter. That doesn't really work online.

Castor Krieg 12-07-2012 09:28 AM

[QUOTE]Quick translation: "Dear customer, we would like to let you know that [B]Nintendo has always aimed to offer gameplay experiences suited to all age groups[/B], observing carefully all the relevant regulations regarding content access that are present in the various European countries.
We have thus decided to restrict the access to content which is unsuitable to minors (PEGI) to the 11 P.M. - 3 A.M. time window [...]"[/QUOTE]

...by making the experience for anyone not being a child as painful as possible.

[QUOTE]TV content rated 18+ is also limited to 11pm to 3am, at least on German free to air stations. The limitation isn't in place because "lol Nintendo", they're simply following laws here. Granted, those laws were made for TV, but since there are no laws governing digital distribution, it's a gray area. Better to be safe than sorry.[/QUOTE]

But on eShop you are not a passive observer - you don't turn on your WiiU and are bombarded with images of graphic violence. you have to navigate to eShop and then to 18+ game area. This is not the same as turning on the TV.

wsippel 12-07-2012 09:31 AM

[QUOTE=Xater;45157786]You are wrong. They are on the safe side because to buy something you have to use a credit card. To have one you have to be 18. You can buy points or money but those are officially rated 18. Also if what you say is true a shop like Amazon would not be able to display stuff that is 18 before 11pm with is not the case. If what you are saying is right we would have to hide everything rated 18 in brick and mortar stores as well. lol[/QUOTE]
A credit card is not a valid ID, so it's no legal proof of age. Porn sites tried, didn't fly. Also, cashiers in brick and mortar stores are legally required to check your age, and there are no cashiers on the eShop - that comparison is bullshit.

Xater 12-07-2012 09:33 AM

[QUOTE=wsippel;45157848]A credit card is not a valid ID, so it's no legal proof of age. Porn sites tried, didn't fly. Also, cashiers in brick and mortar stores are legally required to check your age, and there are no cashiers on the eShop - that comparison is bullshit.[/QUOTE]

It's not bullshit. In a shop you are still able to SEE the game at whatever time you want. Same on Amazon even with screenshots and videos btw. If you want to buy it you have to be 18 because you have to use a credit card on PSN/XBL. It works this way for EVERYTHING, except Nintendo...

They are clearly enforcing some hardline bullshit, that is not mandatory and just there because of their stupid family image.

Kusagari 12-07-2012 09:36 AM

[QUOTE=wsippel;45157848]A credit card is not a valid ID, so it's no legal proof of age. Porn sites tried, didn't fly. Also, cashiers in brick and mortar stores are legally required to check your age, and there are no cashiers on the eShop - that comparison is bullshit.[/QUOTE]

So you can't order an M rated game, or whatever Germany's equivalent is, from Amazon in Germany until 11 pm?

ColdBlooder 12-07-2012 09:37 AM

[QUOTE=Xater;45157880]It's not bullshit. In a shop you are still able to SEE the game at whatever time you want. Same on Amazon even with screenshots and videos btw. If you want to buy it you have to be 18 because you have to use a credit card on PSN/XBL. It works this way for EVERYTHING, [B]except in Germany...[/B][/QUOTE]

Fixed

Castor Krieg 12-07-2012 09:38 AM

[QUOTE=Kusagari;45157917]So you can't order an M rated game, or whatever Germany's equivalent is, from Amazon in Germany until 11 pm?[/QUOTE]

Let me try this right now...

EDIT: I tried to buy ZOE HD for PS3, rated USK 18. I could go all the way to the placing the order, the only new thing on the last screen was this:

[QUOTE]Ihre Bestellung enthält einen Artikel ohne Jugendfreigabe, der nur dem Empfänger persönlich gegen Vorzeigen seines Ausweises ausgehändigt werden darf. Bitte bestätigen Sie, dass Sie über 18 Jahre alt sind und dass der Name auf dem Ausweis des Empfängers dieser Bestellung exakt dem in der Lieferadresse hinterlegten Namen entspricht.[/QUOTE]

Translation: Confirm here that you are over 18 and the receiver of the package.

So it is possible.

ColdBlooder 12-07-2012 09:38 AM

[QUOTE=Kusagari;45157917]So you can't order an M rated game, or whatever Germany's equivalent is, from Amazon in Germany until 11 pm?[/QUOTE]

No, but YOU personally are the only one allowed to receive it, and you need your ID when the mailman rings.

wsippel 12-07-2012 09:43 AM

[QUOTE=Kusagari;45157917]So you can't order an M rated game, or whatever Germany's equivalent is, from Amazon in Germany until 11 pm?[/QUOTE]
You can, but it requires PostIdent. Basically, you have to verify your age with the courier when he hands over the package. It's quite inconvenient and expensive.

Bjoern the Smexy 12-07-2012 09:45 AM

[QUOTE=mrklaw;45157192]Edit : doh, can't view the content in the eshop. It says restricted hours but doesn't say what owe hours are, so I'm supposed to guess? So Ubisoft can't get my money until after 11pm?[/QUOTE]

This is my main gripe with it.
I know the hours now (thanks OP), but yeah, it#s kinda stupid. If you can just set your age in your profile and add additional parental controls to each account, why can't you visit the eShop pages of these games at any time you like?

I know Nintendo is pro-children and all that, but why do they have to cripple my online shopping experience because of that?

Also I go to bed quite early (before 10 pm mostly), so the only way to view this content is by staying awake for longer or setting my alarm to a time where I can see the content.

It's kinda stupid, since there's no such restriction in the Live Marketplace or PSN Store.

[QUOTE=wsippel;45158002]You can, but it requires PostIdent. Basically, you have to verify your age with the courier when he hands over the package. It's quite inconvenient and expensive.[/QUOTE]

It's the reason why I had my Wii U on launch day when I could have had it a day early (I ordered ZombiU with the console, so I had to verify my age and all that, but since I was at work when the mailman came...yeah)

:Motorbass 12-07-2012 09:48 AM

I don't know why Germany has to have something to do with that. I have never heard about time restrictions for some content or shops here.

wrowa 12-07-2012 09:49 AM

[QUOTE=Xater;45157786]You are wrong. They are on the safe side because to buy something you have to use a credit card. To have one you have to be 18. [B]You can buy points or money but those are officially rated 18.[/B] Also if what you say is true a shop like Amazon would not be able to display stuff that is 18 before 11pm with is not the case. If what you are saying is right we would have to hide everything rated 18 in brick and mortar stores as well. lol[/QUOTE]

Nope. eShop cards don't have any age restriction whatsoever. Since they are also widely available, your credit card argument really doesn't fly.

Shinjica 12-07-2012 10:09 AM

so if i'm doing a nightshift work i cannot buy game on the e-shop? cool

jimi_dini 12-07-2012 10:11 AM

[QUOTE=Castor Krieg;45157936]EDIT: I tried to buy ZOE HD for PS3, rated USK 18. I could go all the way to the placing the order, the only new thing on the last screen was this:

Translation: Confirm here that you are over 18 and the receiver of the package.

So it is possible.[/QUOTE]

It also costs 5EUR extra and the postman will check your age.

nickcv 12-07-2012 10:13 AM

this is so stupid... we are accessing the eShop with our account.
the account among other personal information has our birthday
they could simply check that one and grant access to those pages.

sakipon 12-07-2012 10:23 AM

So globalization means we all have to live according the laws of the strictest country? Nice.

RagnarokX 12-07-2012 10:44 AM

[QUOTE=sakipon;45158504]So globalization means we all have to live according the laws of the strictest country? Nice.[/QUOTE]

It probably has more to do with NoE being based in Germany. Sounds like the rest of Europe needs to take a stand.

ScreenSplitter 12-07-2012 10:46 AM

But there are ways around this. This is an actual joke! I'm pretty sick of the UK being a part of Europe. :\

Striek 12-07-2012 10:50 AM

Thats hilarious. Imagine Netflix blocking mature films except for 11pm-3am.

RagnarokX 12-07-2012 10:51 AM

[QUOTE=ScreenSplitter;45158729]But there are ways around this. This is an actual joke! I'm pretty sick of the UK being a part of Europe. :\[/QUOTE]

No censorship without representation!

M3d10n 12-07-2012 10:51 AM

I don't think Ubisoft and Activision will like this, at all. Do any online service (like youtube) do the same on Germany?

mrklaw 12-07-2012 10:55 AM

[QUOTE=jimi_dini;45158362]It also costs 5EUR extra and the postman will check your age.[/QUOTE]

what if you're not in when the postman comes, and your children answer the door? its not for them, but will the postman refuse delivery?

[QUOTE=nickcv;45158382]this is so stupid... we are accessing the eShop with our account.
the account among other personal information has our birthday
they could simply check that one and grant access to those pages.[/QUOTE]

they already do check your age - you don't see '18' games in wara wara plaza, you can't go into '18' rated miiverse communities.

RagnarokX 12-07-2012 10:56 AM

I wonder. Do you think NoE is enforcing this because they are based in Germany and they think they know what's best for the rest of the region or is it because being based in Germany gives the German government great control over NoE's affairs?

nickcv 12-07-2012 10:57 AM

[QUOTE=mrklaw;45158848]what if you're not in when the postman comes, and your children answer the door? its not for them, but will the postman refuse delivery?



they already do check your age - you don't see '18' games in wara wara plaza, you can't go into '18' rated miiverse communities.[/QUOTE]

therefore give access to the over 18 games in the store!
they have those kind of controls everywhere else in the system and not in the store?
they gotta fix this one, and now!


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