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Drawn to Death #GOF**KYOURSELF (David Jaffe's response to giantbomb/polygon comments)

Cranzor

Junior Member
I'm 100% convinced that Jeff judges all games, platforms, equally. I don't think he has any platform bias at all! But to say that he clearly loves games? Ridiculous. He sounds burnt out. I think he likes the IDEA of games, but he just shits on everything. He isn't open to new experiences or to ask himself (constructively) why he doesn't like thing.

I think he needs a vacation.

I don't agree. He basically dedicates his life to the medium -- I don't see how one can do that without loving it. Plus, if he legitimately didn't like video games, he wouldn't work around them anymore.

He talks about video games so enthusiastically, I guess I just don't see where you're coming from. Sure, he can certainly be negative and sometimes dismissive, but that's just part of his personality. I'm sure if he sat down and wanted to, he could formulate an in depth opinion on something like Majora's Mask and explain why he doesn't like it. But he doesn't want to, and that's totally fine. I think the thing that people don't realize is that he is negative in an incredibly lighthearted way most of the time. It cancels it out for me. I do like Yoshi's Island, for example, but I find his hatred for it hilarious.

Yes, yesterday's podcast. Brad might have been there, sorry, not sure if he was! It enforces my point if he was. :)

I really don't intend this to be rude, but if you didn't notice that the host of the podcast was in attendance, I think that reflects more on you than Brad.
 
Good for him. I'm sick of people telling devs how to make thier own bloody games. If you're a reviewer, then review the final product...don't try to steer the game direction during production.
 
On the Giantbomb podcast they said that Jaffe is an old guy trying to be cool. That he is out of touch. Yeah..

Than they mock that Jaffe partakes in ghost hunting in his spare time.

Meanwhile they gave Sunset Overdrive 4/5 and say that is 'gleefully silly' when it basically has a very similar attitude.

All around great journalism!


Those giantbomb ppl sound like a bunch of pricks. Good on Jaffe.
 
I don't agree. He basically dedicates his life to the medium -- I don't see how one can do that without loving it. Plus, if he legitimately didn't like video games, he wouldn't work around them anymore.

He talks about video games so enthusiastically, I guess I just don't see where you're coming from. Sure, he can certainly be negative and sometimes dismissive, but that's just part of his personality. I'm sure if he sat down and wanted to, he could formulate an in depth opinion on something like Majora's Mask and explain why he doesn't like it. But he doesn't want to, and that's totally fine. I think the thing that people don't realize is that he is negative in an incredibly lighthearted way most of the time. It cancels it out for me. I do like Yoshi's Island, for example, but I find his hatred for it hilarious.



I really don't intend this to be rude, but if you didn't notice that the host of the podcast was in attendance, I think that reflects more on you than Brad.

Ingueferroque is still upset at Jeff for the Driveclub review.
 
I really don't intend this to be rude, but if you didn't notice that the host of the podcast was in attendance, I think that reflects more on you than Brad.

Okay. Meanwhile all of my comments regarding yesterday's bombcast are based on direct quotes/paraphrases from the cast. But let it reflect on me, that's fine too!

Ingueferroque is still upset at Jeff for the Driveclub review.

His dismissal of it, and those two/three segments on the bombcast related to it are threadworthy in my opinion. Not because I think the game is by any means flawless, I champion anything to receive constructive and reasonable criticism. It just seems so ridiculously unprofessional the way he dismisses it outright, just because he prefers Forza's model or doesn't like the handling.

But my reaction to their treatment of DC was basically that It surprised me nobody else on the bombcast argued against him to get some sort of meaningful discussion going, or that none of them except for Jeff even tried to play the game to form their own opinion on it. I mean, it's like one of the few first party games on PS4 so far...
 

Halabane

Member
Some of the comments were fair. You were looking for comments at PSX right?

Personal comments are not cool and unfair. I don't know how some of you guys handle it. I certainly wouldn't want as part of my life. Moore at EA must really be thinking of retiring.

But, saying FU to *both* groups was not the right thing to do as a person working for a company where other folk's jobs are dependent on customers. Didn't the Gabe thing teach you something about hurting the hand that feeds you? Yeah not as severe but still...

And yeah...Jaffe being Jaffe does apply. Though its been a long time and lot of the new folks to this hobby may not know that sense of humor. It just may look real immature.
 

Speevy

Banned
Have they made a game where the art style is salad?

Like the grass is lettuce, the flowers are tomatoes, it rains dressing, the baddies are cucumbers, your potions are croutons, and you are an onion out for vengeance.

The levels could be Ranch, Thousand Island, Greek, Italian, French. Think of the possibilities. Little olives wearing berets or togas.

Oh wait...yeah, Jaffe is mad about his notebook paper shooter that won't sell 12 copies because the art style is NOTEBOOK PAPER. Has nothing to do with the number of players. You're not Nintendo, Jaffe.
 
Jaffe can be abrasive. Sometimes I disagree with him. But at the end of the day, not only do I think he is a very talented guy, but he is also pretty insightful and can often be really interesting to listen to his perspective on the industry or even just on games. I remember watching that short lived IGN YouTube series about a game design contest, and my favorite part was listening to him critique the games. He's a boon for the industry.

Game looks really interesting. Love the art style and I'm intrigued by the gameplay.
 
Some of the comments were fair. You were looking for comments at PSX right?

The issue is more relevant to people outright dismissing the game for one reason or another, I think. Players in my play groups at PSX critiqued certain aspects of the game to Jaffe's face and there wasn't any tension or anything. The main talking point from the devs was focused more on "what can we do to improve the experience for you?"

Coming from a fellow Shadowrun fan, this info has me excited. Glad Jaffe made this video too lol, works perfectly with the tone of the game, and it's a good tongue in cheek response to all the hate.

Looking forward to trying out this game, love Twisted Metal, and I like his philosophy on MP combat, with longer, more drawn out engagements. The split second kills in most MP shooters is boring as fuck, especially when the shooting elements aren't even fun.

Us Shadowrun fans have to cling to whatever mechanically-dense games the industry throws at us lol. #RIP

High player health is one thing, but combining it with a low player count makes matches super-intimate. Everyone has time to "get to know" each other, if that makes sense.
 

Toparaman

Banned
I don't mind this video at all. If you're a creator you pretty much have to have the fuck-off attitude, or you just can't be productive.

People should take it in stride.
 

MagnesD3

Member
They must often agree then! This is the last I'll say about it because this is getting off-topic (and I apologize...) besides calling David Jaffe an old out of touch man trying to be cool.. this is how they opened up the Metal Gear Online reveal discussion:

"What the hell is metal gear online?"

"It's another dumb fucking multiplayer mode for a metal gear game that nobody wants"

"Yeah, who gets into these?"

"no-one!"

"Stripping away the dumb fucking story and all this other chaos, to say like, we're gonna have you shoot at other human players, breaks the whole thing even more. It's just terrible."

What the fuck? Trying to be edgy I suppose? Meanwhile Ground Zeroes has been out for 9 months and has proven to be all bout dat gameplay, and a perfect fit for an online type experience. I guess they didn't bother playing Peace Walker either. Oh well.

Such a shame that they make a damn good Podcast. :)
I like the podcast but I swear I question every single podcast that half of them like video games at all since they are so pessimistic. Dan Ryckert is cool tho.
 

Surface of Me

I'm not an NPC. And neither are we.
Okay. Meanwhile all of my comments regarding yesterday's bombcast are based on direct quotes/paraphrases from the cast. But let it reflect on me, that's fine too!



His dismissal of it, and those two/three segments on the bombcast related to it are threadworthy in my opinion. Not because I think the game is by any means flawless, I champion anything to receive constructive and reasonable criticism. It just seems so ridiculously unprofessional the way he dismisses it outright, just because he prefers Forza's model or doesn't like the handling.

But my reaction to their treatment of DC was basically that It surprised me nobody else on the bombcast argued against him to get some sort of meaningful discussion going, or that none of them except for Jeff even tried to play the game to form their own opinion on it. I mean, it's like one of the few first party games on PS4 so far...

Just because he doesn't like the handling? Sounds like a pretty big fucking deal for a driving game, like gunplay in an FPS or jump feel for a platformer. He articulated why he didn't like it in the written review, if you dont care for his points it's on you, not him. Also, the bolded means nothing.
 
I just don't understand, the whole fucking concept is that it is viewed through the eye of a 13 year old angsty teen. The art is supposed to be bad. The humor is supposed to be juvenile. It isn't trying to be anything else.

It's supposed to be bad? Oh yeah, that's real convincing lol.
 
Just because he doesn't like the handling? Sounds like a pretty big fucking deal for a driving game, like gunplay in an FPS or jump feel for a platformer. He articulated why he didn't like it in the written review, if you dont care for his points it's on you, not him. Also, the bolded means nothing.

I wish I could transcribe those segments. Of course handling in a racing game is a dealbreaker, I am not arguing that he should have liked DriveClub. I am arguing that he should have given it a fair chance and at least judge it objectively. He outright claimed DC had nothing going for it and was simply a bad game.

His opinion had nothing to do with the launch and netcode issues, even.

Of course these reviews/opinions are all his own, personal opinions. But he is a professional reviewer for christ sakes.. even I won't claim that something necessarily SUCKS just because I happen to dislike one of its core elements. He acts like his opinion is fact and the final word on the matter.

That's bullshit any way you slice it. The game does a lot of things right, a few things better than most, and definitely doesn't deserve to be talked about like it is Big Rigs.
 
Good. Fantastic. Developers are human beings and it can be really demoralizing to have something you've poured your heart and soul into be shit on by people whose only interaction with your game is a passing glance.

Every day I see people shitting on everything that doesn't exactly match their expectations or desires. I see it in every thread and every comment section because God forbid a game, movie, song or company doesn't meet your every whim. So if a dev or anyone in the gaming industry can find some joy in a snarky fuck you, or can use the shitty trends of whiny, demanding brats to help promote their game, good for them. More power to them. I hope it brings them nothing but happiness. God knows some of the pricks on the internet need to be cut down a peg.

/rant.

570.gif
 

Joey Ravn

Banned
Nice marketing ploy.

Yep. Does anyone really believe that Jaffe got so mad by these comments that he had to produce this video to "answer" them? Yeah, sure. Every single game will generate some bad reputation on the Internet, no matter how many people like it. Even Ocarina of Time, Half-Life and Final Fantasy VII get shit all the time. Sony and Jaffe were absolutely certain that someone, sooner or later, would criticize this game. They just had to wait for the negative comments to pour in, slap them on the video and boom. Free and edgy marketing. The comments weren't as bad to merit this video to begin with...

Also, opinions. If some people like this game, then "this game is cool" is completely valid. God forbid someone doesn't like it, because they'll have to write a PhD thesis to justify their stance...
 
Good. Fantastic. Developers are human beings and it can be really demoralizing to have something you've poured your heart and soul into be shit on by people whose only interaction with your game is a passing glance.

Every day I see people shitting on everything that doesn't exactly match their expectations or desires. I see it in every thread and every comment section because God forbid a game, movie, song or company doesn't meet your every whim. So if a dev or anyone in the gaming industry can find some joy in a snarky fuck you, or can use the shitty trends of whiny, demanding brats to help promote their game, good for them. More power to them. I hope it brings them nothing but happiness. God knows some of the pricks on the internet need to be cut down a peg.

/rant.



Exactly.
 
Love jaffe but that why only 4 players question was fair. Why ?
Read TheXtortionist's impressions from PSX here.

In short, players have a comparatively high amount of health, so you spend a fair amount of time duking it out with each other face to face. The lower player count gives you a better opportunity to learn your opponents and their play styles, rather than just have the game just be a series of quick-draw battles against faceless opponents.
 

Zabant

Member
Read TheXtortionist's impressions from PSX here.

In short, players have a comparatively high amount of health, so you spend a fair amount of time duking it out with each other face to face. The lower player count gives you a better opportunity to learn your opponents and their play styles, rather than just have the game just be a series of quick-draw battles against faceless opponents.

That sounds pretty awesome, very few intimate shooter games. That style is usually reserved for fighting games or oddities like Dark Souls MP
 
This experience being so common betrays a problem in the culture. It should be corrected, not reflected on nostalgically to make you feel all warm and fuzzy on the inside.

Personally, no I was not like that myself. The guys I knew that were, were in large fucking creeps, to be blunt. I thought as much then as I do now.

Good god, get fucking over yourself.

Anyway, this is a good call by Jaffe. Hopefully this can be a continued marketing scheme whereby he makes a montage of new hate as time goes on, then a big #gofuckyourself followed by a new load of clips and gameplay footage.
 
The game looked interesting enough and the previews from the floor are all very positive so whatever. I'll check it out closer to release. Hopefully an alpha or beta is in the near future.
 
Still not quite as weird as him describing the Vita as a "fresh, warm pussy" or something to that effect.

Anyway nice to see his running away to the Facebook game bubble and coming back with his tail between his legs hasn't humbled him any.
 

gogosox82

Member
His dismissal of it, and those two/three segments on the bombcast related to it are threadworthy in my opinion. Not because I think the game is by any means flawless, I champion anything to receive constructive and reasonable criticism. It just seems so ridiculously unprofessional the way he dismisses it outright, just because he prefers Forza's model or doesn't like the handling.

But my reaction to their treatment of DC was basically that It surprised me nobody else on the bombcast argued against him to get some sort of meaningful discussion going, or that none of them except for Jeff even tried to play the game to form their own opinion on it. I mean, it's like one of the few first party games on PS4 so far...

Not liking how the cars handled is pretty big deal in a racing game is it not? And no one else played it so how could they challenge what he was saying? Maybe they will play it eventually (probably not) but that wouldn't change Jeff's opinion, he still probably wouldn't like it so I really don't see why Brad or Dan or whoever should run out and play it just to disagree with Jeff about a game they probably don't care about.
 
Not liking how the cars handled is pretty big deal in a racing game is it not? And no one else played it so how could they challenge what he was saying? Maybe they will play it eventually (probably not) but that wouldn't change Jeff's opinion, he still probably wouldn't like it so I really don't see why Brad or Dan or whoever should run out and play it just to disagree with Jeff about a game they probably don't care about.

It's not like, having opinions on games is their job or anything, right?
 

THRILLH0

Banned
His dismissal of it, and those two/three segments on the bombcast related to it are threadworthy in my opinion. Not because I think the game is by any means flawless, I champion anything to receive constructive and reasonable criticism. It just seems so ridiculously unprofessional the way he dismisses it outright, just because he prefers Forza's model or doesn't like the handling.

But my reaction to their treatment of DC was basically that It surprised me nobody else on the bombcast argued against him to get some sort of meaningful discussion going, or that none of them except for Jeff even tried to play the game to form their own opinion on it. I mean, it's like one of the few first party games on PS4 so far...

You complain about Giant Bomb being an echo chamber and in the next breath get upset that Jeff's opinion of Driveclub differed from the consensus and that people who hadn't played it didn't contradict him?
 
You know what?

I find it funny that developers are expected to take all kind of abuse and disrespect for their work, but once they throw a F word in response there are some that feel outraged or displeased.

I guess some like to dish it but not to take it. And I'm not talking about Jaffe.

I share this view completely.
 

Aselith

Member
It's not like, having opinions on games is their job or anything, right?

Yes, of specific games. The play games for review and they play games for fun. Do you really expect all of them to play every game that comes out every year? I think they want to have lives too not just the job.
 
Good. Fantastic. Developers are human beings and it can be really demoralizing to have something you've poured your heart and soul into be shit on by people whose only interaction with your game is a passing glance.

Every day I see people shitting on everything that doesn't exactly match their expectations or desires. I see it in every thread and every comment section because God forbid a game, movie, song or company doesn't meet your every whim. So if a dev or anyone in the gaming industry can find some joy in a snarky fuck you, or can use the shitty trends of whiny, demanding brats to help promote their game, good for them. More power to them. I hope it brings them nothing but happiness. God knows some of the pricks on the internet need to be cut down a peg.

/rant.

A thousand times this. Took the words right out of my mouth.

Not every game needs to be tailored to your taste. Sometimes it's ok to see something, be disinterested and move on without loudly proclaiming how much it sucks because it doesn't cater specifically to what you want out of a game.

Count me on #teamjaffe
 
Yes, of specific games. The play games for review and they play games for fun. Do you really expect all of them to play every game that comes out every year? I think they want to have lives too not just the job.

Of course I agree with you, but they suck at having opinions on their podcast, refer to the examples I posted ITT.
 
I'm listening to the segment about Drawn to Death on the latest Bombcast (1:47:48 - 1:53:22) and I'm laughing so hard right now.

"Are you saying that Drawn To Death is trying to make me its bitch?"

I guess some people have an axe to grind with Giant Bomb's opinions if they take offense to their impressions of just a trailer. It does look like an old guy trying to be cool :p

"Fred Durst is doing VO for this" XD

fellow-kids-buscemi.gif
 

Get_crazy

Banned
Well, I've gotta agree with some of these comments. It really looks like an underwhelming game for the niche. I'm sorry but I don't like the art style, the "arena-shooter" thing and well... that's about it.

I guess I can go fuck myself now. #BRB
 
"This game looks bad" even in its most reductive form is a little more productive than "go fuck yourself"

None of the comments highlighted in the video were as civil as that.

Generally speaking most, ahem, 'feedback' from the gaming community that I've read lacks any civility (NeoGAF, for the most-part, being a welcome exception). Anonymity affords many the freedom to act disgracefully. It's convenient to be rude when anonymous and then cry foul when someone returns the favour. Even moreso when they do so under their real name.

I also think that Jaffe is playing up to type a little bit here. He's known for being sweary and direct.
 
On the Giantbomb podcast they said that Jaffe is an old guy trying to be cool. That he is out of touch. Yeah..

Than they mock that Jaffe partakes in ghost hunting in his spare time.

Meanwhile they gave Sunset Overdrive 4/5 and say that is 'gleefully silly' when it basically has a very similar attitude.

All around great journalism!

All the Giantbombcast has told me lately was that a grown man didn't know what the fuck a mortgage was and had to have it explained to him like a 9 year old child...and still couldn't understand the basics of a fucking bank loan.
But these guys are surely qualified to tell others how to make a game.
 

Aselith

Member
On the Giantbomb podcast they said that Jaffe is an old guy trying to be cool. That he is out of touch. Yeah..

Than they mock that Jaffe partakes in ghost hunting in his spare time.

Meanwhile they gave Sunset Overdrive 4/5 and say that is 'gleefully silly' when it basically has a very similar attitude.

All around great journalism!

I didn't see this earlier...how were they mocking it? They said they really loved the name of his company and that they wished the game were about it. I didn't hear them mocking that in any way. They just mention that he does and so oh man he should have made the game about that.

Brad puts out a question about whether he does it as a job for money probably because you normally don't associate that with something that makes money and he is the only one that says anything slightly derogatory about the hobby and only if you read it that way.
 
Many people don't understand sarcasm and humor anymore, because they go looking for anything to be offended by.

I'll pick Jaffe over political correctness any day.

Edit: Jaffe ghost hunts in his spare time... might have to change my opinion.
 

Myggen

Member
I didn't see this earlier...how were they mocking it? They said they really loved the name of his company and that they wished the game were about it. I didn't hear them mocking that in any way. They just mention that he does and so oh man he should have made the game about that.

Brad puts out a question about whether he does it as a job for money probably because you normally don't associate that with something that makes money and he is the only one that says anything slightly derogatory about the hobby and only if you read it that way.

Yeah, that wasn't a personal attack or anything. They just wanted a game about that stuff instead.
 
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