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Firestorm · Mar 27, 2010

Edit: Ok reading this thread. Pick up Tales of Vesperia or something. If you have a BC PS3 or a PS3, pick up Tales of the Abyss which you probably passed up for Final Fantasy XII (worst release date ever Namco. Almost as bad as Resonance of Fate). If you have a GCN/Wii, you can do Symphonia. They address a lot of issues people have here.

mr_nothin said:
Soooo, basically gambits. Just not as many

I didn't play FFXII, but from what my friends tell me you essentially create flow charts to prioritize. Almost as if creating pseudocode for your characters.

In Tales, this is what you get:
- define the general distance from the enemy they should keep
- turn on/off certain spells that they can use automatically
- map a spell from any character to your right stick which is unused in battle (Cura, Raise are both good candidates)
- by pausing, you can switch control to any other character on the field which can create some really interesting combos as well as keep techniques/summons for any character other than the one you always control from being useless

MidgarBlowedUp said:
I must say I agree with you.

While I am loving FFXIII as a whole and, I've only been knocked out a handful of times all the way up through chapter 9, I'm starting to get that "I better grind I bit" feeling. Even if you cast Libra your party members still don't always take the best action. I see them fighting two different opponents when I'm trying my best to kill that one asswipe with haste and a machine gun. As for healing, Cura might be a better option if two characters are very low on health instead of someone casting 4x cures on me then 1x cure on themselves. They could be knocked out before they even get to curing themselves then i have to cast raise just to get back where we started. So just go ahead and cast Cura to begin with and if I need to switch to medic myself or drink a potion I'll make that decision. I'm also getting tired of hearing "time for another approach" or "new strategy" 25 times during a fight.

Still a great game though, I'm loving it.

I see your point. While I didn't think FFXII's battle system was boring at all, I thought it was wonderful, I do feel FFXIII as a game is moving much faster keeping me more interested in the story. It makes me want to keep playing for hours on end where in FFXII I didn't get that feeling near as much.

I think you're using COM-COM-COM or COM-COM-RAV in that situation. Commandos never attack the same target. You want to go COM-RAV-RAV. I usually use Lightning as Ravager, Sazh (most use Hope) as Ravager, and Fang as Commando.

darkwings · Mar 27, 2010

cosmicblizzard said:
You know this is what I should be arguing, not the control thing. I don't give a shit about a slight lack of control if I'm having fun. FF12's battle system was dull as hell to me because when I was using gambits, the game was playing itself and when I wasn't, it took forever to do any significant damage. As someone who doesn't play WRPGs or MMOs, it just didn't feel like a Final Fantasy game at all, something XIII doesn't suffer from even if I would prefer full control.

it is funny that people criticize FFXII plays itself when you walk on a straight line in FFXIII and hit attack, attack, attack etc in order to win.

I didn't play FFXII, but from what my friends tell me you essentially create flow charts to prioritize. Almost as if creating pseudocode for your characters.

that's basically what you do, and it is very satisfying when you come up with a "flowchart" that works for you.

Firestorm · Mar 27, 2010

darkwings said:
that's basically what you do, and it is very satisfying when you come up with a "flowchart" that works for you.

Yeah, it's intriguing to me. I'll probably get to it sometime but not anytime soon. Once I finish FFXIII, I have Mass Effect 2 and Resonance of Fate to get through. Not to mention Fallout 3 and Dragon Age. Lots of RPGs on my plate!

Rpgmonkey · Mar 27, 2010

mr_nothin said:
Soooo, basically gambits. Just not as many

Well I saw Gambits as really specific things with strict prioritization ("Target:Vaan=Protect", where'll they'll only use Protect, and only on Vaan), while these are more broad (like for a Synergist, something like "Focus on attack/defense", where they'll use a mix of attack/defense buffs on anyone, but Protect/Brave take priority over Haste).

Guess it's just a difference of perception.

Edit: Well you edited your post, so nevermind. Yeah that's kinda what Tales A.I. is like and what this could use really effectively. :lol

FateBreaker · Mar 27, 2010

Neil said:
So... I just got to chapter 13. I didn't get the achievement for beating chapter 12

yeah I found that odd too. I guess they couldn't think of more "instrument" names.

darkwings · Mar 27, 2010

Firestorm said:
Yeah, it's intriguing to me. I'll probably get to it sometime but not anytime soon. Once I finish FFXIII, I have Mass Effect 2 and Resonance of Fate to get through. Not to mention Fallout 3 and Dragon Age. Lots of RPGs on my plate!

if you got a good comp, emulate FFXII in 1080p, looks amazing.

Kagari · Mar 27, 2010

Thread is getting odd...

mr_nothin · Mar 27, 2010

Rpgmonkey said:
Well I saw Gambits as really specific things with strict prioritization ("Target:Vaan=Protect", where'll they'll only use Protect, and only on Vaan), while these are more broad (like for a Synergist, something like "Focus on attack/defense", where they'll use a mix of attack/defense buffs on anyone, but Protect/Brave take priority over Haste).

Guess it's just a difference of perception.

Edit: Well you edited your post, so nevermind. Yeah that's kinda what Tales A.I. is like and what this could use really effectively. :lol

"Gambits" are in FFXIII in a sense. It's just that they're automated. They're already built into the AI. Think of Paradigms as 'profiles' for different setups that you have for gambits. The Medic paradigm is just a set of gambits that heals players when they're low on health, uses cura when 2 enemies are close to each other, and uses esuna whenever there are any ailments on anyone. Difference being, is that medics dont attack or cast any elemental magic at all in FFXIII but they're able to do all of that in FFXII. Paradigms are just different configurations of gambits that are super specialized in 1 area and they dont deviate from that job.

Also, they had more broad gambits. They had "Target:All/Party=Protect" & "Target

arty HP 100%(party members hp = 100%) = Protect" and then they had the more specific gambits for specific characters or enemy types. You could stay high-level or get as detailed as you wanted.

FAKE Edit: I see that you edited your post and I even quoted the edit lol. I wasnt going to just erase this post though

Firestorm said:
Edit: Ok reading this thread. Pick up Tales of Vesperia or something. If you have a BC PS3 or a PS3, pick up Tales of the Abyss which you probably passed up for Final Fantasy XII (worst release date ever Namco. Almost as bad as Resonance of Fate). If you have a GCN/Wii, you can do Symphonia. They address a lot of issues people have here.
I didn't play FFXII, but from what my friends tell me you essentially create flow charts to prioritize. Almost as if creating pseudocode for your characters.

In Tales, this is what you get:
- define the general distance from the enemy they should keep
- turn on/off certain spells that they can use automatically
- map a spell from any character to your right stick which is unused in battle (Cura, Raise are both good candidates)
- by pausing, you can switch control to any other character on the field which can create some really interesting combos as well as keep techniques/summons for any character other than the one you always control from being useless

I think you're using COM-COM-COM or COM-COM-RAV in that situation. Commandos never attack the same target. You want to go COM-RAV-RAV. I usually use Lightning as Ravager, Sazh (most use Hope) as Ravager, and Fang as Commando.

Yea it's like a flowchart of sorts as DarkWing stated. I've been wanting to play Tales for a while now. Didnt know the system was sort of like FFXII. Will pick it up and use PCSX to play it in HD on PC =]

I also think the "define the general distance from the enemy they should keep" idea would have been a nice inclusion to FFXIII. Use it like that and also have "define the general distance from ally they should keep" which would help the AI choose Cura more often but it would also allow enemies to attack both characters at once. I just like push/pull & award/punish type of systems...cause & effect.

Ricker · Mar 27, 2010

Skilletor said:
omg @ the crystarium.

I just beat a boss in Chapter 10 and the shit in the crystarium is going to cost me 4k per node? Wow.

You get a whole lots of CP in Chapter 11,without even grinding,or slightly grinding,don`t worry,chapter 11 is like an expansion pack to the first 10 chapters hehe...

Fuu · Mar 27, 2010

Was retrying forever at the

Adamanchelid

fight in ch.12 until I went with MED/SYN/SAB but only when I put Lightning on auto and controlled Fang as SAB that the healing went smooth during the buffing/debuffing. Then COM/MED/RAV, thing got staggered and died so quickly after that, I'll be killing every single one that appears in my way now. :lol

Lince · Mar 27, 2010

so what's the difference between a normal Tiara and one maxed out? do the spells stick through the battles?

Cloudy · Mar 27, 2010

Ok, I took a break for a week cos I was busy and the chap 9 boss is STILL owning my ass

I finally got the right strategy of having Snow tank continously and debuffing the boss with Vanille when he does his "enchanted veil". Plus stocking up on the anti-curse item. Now, he does this stupid "destructoid" move and kills Lightning in one shot when I almost have him down. WTF?!?! :lol

HELP!

dramatis · Mar 27, 2010

Cloudy said:
I finally got the right strategy of having Snow tank continously and debuffing the boss with Vanille when he does his "enchanted veil". Plus stocking up on the anti-curse item. Now, he does this stupid "destructoid" move and kills Lightning in one shot when I almost have him down. WTF?!?! :lol

HELP!

When he does that move, switch to attack and hit him until he groans. The attack damage will be reduced significantly.

Elemental damage will help take out the other "things" first quickly.

Cloudy · Mar 27, 2010

Thanks

CruxisMana · Mar 27, 2010

Cloudy said:
Ok, I took a break for a week cos I was busy and the chap 9 boss is STILL owning my ass

I finally got the right strategy of having Snow tank continously and debuffing the boss with Vanille when he does his "enchanted veil". Plus stocking up on the anti-curse item. Now, he does this stupid "destructoid" move and kills Lightning in one shot when I almost have him down. WTF?!?! :lol

HELP!

While he's charging his Destructo move, go all out on with with Com/Rav/Rav, or whatever, until he groans. It significantly weakens the attack, and it should be manageable to heal up with a shift to Combat Clinic.

EDIT: People are fast tonight.

Raw64life · Mar 27, 2010

Boy is Chapter 11 a breath of fresh air. I just played the game for an hour and didn't watch a single cutscene. And this is also probably the closest thing you get to an overworld the whole game.

Although it's kind of annoying that when you use the map it doesn't show you which missions you've already completed. I did missions 1-5 and then the next mission I found was mission 8. I can't tell at all from the map where mission 6 or 7 could possibly be. Is there any way to tell this, or at least a map online somewhere that tells you? And also, can you ever come back to this place and finish all the missions at a later point if you decide to progress with the story?

Fimbulvetr · Mar 27, 2010

Firestorm said:
Yeah, I think people who have played a Tales game can easily envision the type of AI control that would have worked in this game. I understand that the series is a lot less popular than Final Fantasy so a lot of people might not have played one, but it would be perfect for FFXIII.

Oh, definitely this.

Kagari said:
Thread is getting odd...

It's annoying to see an FFXII argument that doesn't involve me.

Glad to see cosmic is still in on it though. :lol

Kagari · Mar 27, 2010

Fimbulvetr said:
It's annoying to see an FFXII argument that doesn't involve me.

Glad to see cosmic is still in on it though. :lol

>_>

/goes back to playing FFXII.

IronFistedChampion · Mar 27, 2010

Let's try this again:

When and how do I get to upgrade my weapons (go up in Level)? I just started Chapter 4.

Papercuts · Mar 27, 2010

I got the first 10 hunts done, and it seems to be guiding me along somewhat. Should I just keep going or stop and keep doing hunts? I've had to use a summon on a couple of the recent ones for the free revive, but I don't know if I should just put the rest off until I can handle them easily.

ZephyrFate · Mar 27, 2010

I'm in the camp that XIII's gameplay is pretty much perfect. I have absolutely zero problems with it, and if I screw up it's definitely because it was my fault.

CruxisMana · Mar 27, 2010

IronFistedChampion said:
Let's try this again:

When and how do I get to upgrade my weapons (go up in Level)? I just started Chapter 4.

You get the option to do so at the end of Chapter 4, but most people don't bother doing anything until Chapter 11 or later.

You'll get a tutorial at the end of Chapter 4 too.

Papercuts · Mar 27, 2010

ZephyrFate said:
I'm in the camp that XIII's gameplay is pretty much perfect. I have absolutely zero problems with it, and if I screw up it's definitely because it was my fault.

It's great, but the biggest hindrance for me is still not being able to place your party. The AoE attacks are killer, getting all three members pounded by 2 enemies that keep using attacks that hit all three leaves you with nothing to do but double heal(if possible), but all that does is prevent the inevitable-you're going to die. It's nearly impossible to get out of some loops like that because you don't have a party member ever causing them to walk to the other side of the battle field.

CruxisMana said:
You get the option to do so at the end of Chapter 4, but most people don't bother doing anything until Chapter 11 or later.

You'll get a tutorial at the end of Chapter 4 too.

When can you actually apply the minerals to bring it to a new form? I got the Gladius up to level 21, I thought it was supposed to happen around here.

Pooya · Mar 27, 2010

Trapz, trapz, trapz, fuck trapz

CruxisMana · Mar 27, 2010

Papercuts said:
The AoE attacks are killer, getting all three members pounded by 2 enemies that keep using attacks that hit all three leaves you with nothing to do but double heal(if possible), but all that does is prevent the inevitable-you're going to die. It's nearly impossible to get out of some loops like that because you don't have a party member ever causing them to walk to the other side of the battle field.

This really starts to become apparent the more you have to use the Sentinel role too.

CruxisMana · Mar 27, 2010

Papercuts said:
When can you actually apply the minerals to bring it to a new form? I got the Gladius up to level 21, I thought it was supposed to happen around here.

I'm not quite sure. I just seemed to gather some as I went along, but I didn't start upgrading weapons until Chapter 9.

Fuu · Mar 27, 2010

Raw64life said:
Boy is Chapter 11 a breath of fresh air. I just played the game for an hour and didn't watch a single cutscene. And this is also probably the closest thing you get to an overworld the whole game.

Although it's kind of annoying that when you use the map it doesn't show you which missions you've already completed. I did missions 1-5 and then the next mission I found was mission 8. I can't tell at all from the map where mission 6 or 7 could possibly be. Is there any way to tell this, or at least a map online somewhere that tells you? And also, can you ever come back to this place and finish all the missions at a later point if you decide to progress with the story?

The in-game map mostly sucks for that. Useful maps here: http://twobrothersandasister.com/?p=6455

And yes, you'll be able to come back at a later point to do the missions in case you want to advance with the story now.

navii · Mar 27, 2010

I'm up to Chapter 8 or 9 and I cant bring myself to continue this game. I think I leave it too long between play sessions. I might leave this game till I go on my next holidays where I can spend day after day on it.

I like most of the characters and the story, but when I see a floor full of monsters, I just have to clear it, Its a chore that takes ages.

Skilletor · Mar 27, 2010

ZephyrFate said:
I'm in the camp that XIII's gameplay is pretty much perfect. I have absolutely zero problems with it, and if I screw up it's definitely because it was my fault.

The game is easy. I am not worried about dying, ever. It's not about screwing up, it's about a game that rewards you with better spoils/drops/whatever for playing more efficiently and the AI being a hindrance in that regard. If the AI did what I wanted it to, I would finish battles much faster.

Re the issue of control: In FF12, I can take control of any character I want, at any moment, and issue any command I desire. Let me know when you can do that in FF13, and we'll talk about "control."

But, round and round we go. Last time I comment on the issue.

On topic: In chapter 10 I just beat

Cid

. How long until SWEET, SWEET Gran Pulse?

grumble · Mar 27, 2010

Raw64life said:
Boy is Chapter 11 a breath of fresh air. I just played the game for an hour and didn't watch a single cutscene. And this is also probably the closest thing you get to an overworld the whole game.

Although it's kind of annoying that when you use the map it doesn't show you which missions you've already completed. I did missions 1-5 and then the next mission I found was mission 8. I can't tell at all from the map where mission 6 or 7 could possibly be. Is there any way to tell this, or at least a map online somewhere that tells you? And also, can you ever come back to this place and finish all the missions at a later point if you decide to progress with the story?

Sure it does. If the icon is glowing, then it's a mission you haven't done yet. If you press square on the map, it'll show a list of the missions and where they are if they're on the general map you're on. If you need to wander around for missions between maps, then you'll probably want a guide.

IronFistedChampion · Mar 27, 2010

CruxisMana said:
You get the option to do so at the end of Chapter 4, but most people don't bother doing anything until Chapter 11 or later.

You'll get a tutorial at the end of Chapter 4 too.

Thanks!

Firestorm · Mar 27, 2010

Skilletor said:
On topic: In chapter 10 I just beat

Cid

. How long until SWEET, SWEET Gran Pulse?

You're probably 50% done but AVOID ALL BATTLES. Seriously not worth it as they take forever and give like 300 CP. From what I hear, Chapter 11 gives you a more appropriate amount of CP. Those friggin' bird things are such a pain in the ass.

popsicle_sundays · Mar 27, 2010

Alright, I'm at the final chapter in the game, probably mid-way or something and I just have to get some stuff off my chest. Before i begin, I don't really whine about video games, the last game that got me pissed off was probably Ninja Gaiden 2, but even that was nothing compared to this.

The graphics are fantastic, the combat system is great (for a while), the music is alright I guess (i didn't enjoy it too much), and the story is pretty good actually. This game is just fucking retarded.

I breezed through the first 10 chapters like nothing, maybe stumbling on a boss here and there, grinding was fun, I really enjoyed that. I was maxing my characters skill trees and just having a blast, then I got to chapter 11....What a piece of shit this game turned into after this point. The open world stuff was cool i guess, but the monsters spiked up in difficulty to something that only allah could take down. Sure there are standard enemies (given you arent overwhelmed by a group of 6-7) but most of it is ridiculous fucking monsters that if you don't have the right party, or mess up a tiny bit you are dead. 60 hours of gameplay? More like 20 hours, the rest is you dying.

The game just wasn't fun anymore after Chapter 10, I found myself skipping through cutscenes, going around monsters because if i died one more fucking times I was going to tip my PS3 out of the window or crack the disc in two. I just....I have no idea what they were thinking? Barthandalas was no problem for me, but 2 of those fucking cat dog motherfuckers and I get raped, or that giant turtle thing you are forced to fight, I got really lucky or I'd still be trying to fight that.

I know you will call me a whiny bitch, but i don't really care tbh, this game went from a 9/10 to a 6/10 for me, and once I finish it I will never go back to this piece of crap that brings shame to the FF name.

/end rant

I'm sorry GAF but this game got the best of me :lol

Majmun · Mar 27, 2010

I remember the previous FF games having more effective Death spells. -_-

dreamer3kx · Mar 27, 2010

FuttBuck said:
Alright, I'm at the final chapter in the game, probably mid-way or something and I just have to get some stuff off my chest. Before i begin, I don't really whine about video games, the last game that got me pissed off was probably Ninja Gaiden 2, but even that was nothing compared to this.

The graphics are fantastic, the combat system is great (for a while), the music is alright I guess (i didn't enjoy it too much), and the story is pretty good actually. This game is just fucking retarded.

I breezed through the first 10 chapters like nothing, maybe stumbling on a boss here and there, grinding was fun, I really enjoyed that. I was maxing my characters skill trees and just having a blast, then I got to chapter 11....What a piece of shit this game turned into after this point. The open world stuff was cool i guess, but the monsters spiked up in difficulty to something that only allah could take down. Sure there are standard enemies (given you arent overwhelmed by a group of 6-7) but most of it is ridiculous fucking monsters that if you don't have the right party, or mess up a tiny bit you are dead. 60 hours of gameplay? More like 20 hours, the rest is you dying.

The game just wasn't fun anymore after Chapter 10, I found myself skipping through cutscenes, going around monsters because if i died one more fucking times I was going to tip my PS3 out of the window or crack the disc in two. I just....I have no idea what they were thinking? Barthandalas was no problem for me, but 2 of those fucking cat dog motherfuckers and I get raped, or that giant turtle thing you are forced to fight, I got really lucky or I'd still be trying to fight that.

I know you will call me a whiny bitch, but i don't really care tbh, this game went from a 9/10 to a 6/10 for me, and once I finish it I will never go back to this piece of crap that brings shame to the FF name.

/end rant

I'm sorry GAF but this game got the best of me :lol

Wait you're complaining about the best Chap, ??, do at least 15 missions before wondering the field and trying to go head on with the harder enemies, the enemies are easier to defeat once you gain some levels doing missions, plus you get pretty good items this way also.

entremet · Mar 27, 2010

Second said:
I remember the previous FF games having more effective Death spells. -_-

Well this is one is can be cast unlimited times since there's no MP. Lemme guess, you're trying to get the Growth Egg?

popsicle_sundays · Mar 27, 2010

dreamer3kx said:
Wait you're complaining about the best Chap, ??, do at least 15 missions before wondering the field and trying to go head on with the harder enemies, the enemies are easier to defeat once you gain some levels doing missions, plus you get pretty good items this way also.

I did the first 10 missions, and then I progressed. It's not the best chapter for me, reconculous difficulty spike, and it just got really boring.

Deleted member 30609 · Mar 27, 2010

I think I agree with FuttBuck (lol), I was enjoying the super-directed experience a lot more than I am the aimless Chapter 11.

I have a giant, well-articulated paragraph or two type up on it, but man, I can not be fucked.

D23 · Mar 27, 2010

im in chapter 11, just finished mission 10. i was wondering if should do more mission or continue with the story?

dreamer3kx · Mar 27, 2010

Rez said:
I think I agree with FuttBuck (lol), I was enjoying the super-directed experience a lot more than I am the aimless Chapter 11.

I have a giant, well-articulated paragraph or two type up on it, but man, I can not be fucked.

The linearity before chap 11 is fine, I loved it but chap 11 just gave me that distraction I needed with the missions.

Majmun · Mar 27, 2010

entrement said:
Well this is one is can be cast unlimited times since there's no MP. Lemme guess, you're trying to get the Growth Egg?

Lol, did that already. Took me around 45 minutes of Death spamming it total. But I finally got the item.

I'm trying to kill the adamontoise with the Death spell becasue there is no other way of beating him, for now.

jiggle · Mar 27, 2010

holy fuck
35 adamantoise/adamantortoise later
i'm still without a single trapzehedron
WTF

Second said:
Lol, did that already. Took me around 45 minutes of Death spamming it total. But I finally got the item.

I'm trying to kill the adamontoise with the Death spell becasue there is no other way of beating him, for now.

make sure vanille is using belladona
and fang is also on sab
and deshell it first after it fall before spamming death
increases the odds of it landing

IronFistedChampion · Mar 27, 2010

Can you guys tell me what is the best ability (role?) to develop for each character (Commando, Ravager, etc)?

Neil · Mar 27, 2010

Just completed the game. Seems like I'm never going to get the achievement for completing chapter 12. I'm absolutely furious.

popsicle_sundays · Mar 27, 2010

Rez said:
I think I agree with FuttBuck (lol), I was enjoying the super-directed experience a lot more than I am the aimless Chapter 11.

I have a giant, well-articulated paragraph or two type up on it, but man, I can not be fucked.

Maybe I'm being a bit harsh, but my frustration with this chapter weeds out all of the fun I've had with the game so far, it feels like a chore to finish the game.

dreamer3kx · Mar 27, 2010

IronFistedChampion said:
Can you guys tell me what are the best abilities to develop for each character (Commando, Ravager, etc)?

This was my team.

Light- Rav (mostly)/Comm/Medic

Fang- Comm/Sab/Sen

Hope-Rav/Syn/Med

IronFistedChampion · Mar 27, 2010

dreamer3kx said:
This was my team.

Light- Rav (mostly)/Comm/Medic

Fang- Comm/Sab/Sen

Hope-Rav/Syn/Med

For now, I was just looking to concentrate on a single role for each character rather than multiple. Also, what about the rest of the characters?

dramatis · Mar 27, 2010

Neil said:
Just completed the game. Seems like I'm never going to get the achievement for completing chapter 12. I'm absolutely furious.

Another bug? The JP PS3 had one where if you installed the themes you earned you wouldn't be able to get trophies. It seems unlikely that this should happen on the 360 though...

dreamer3kx · Mar 27, 2010

IronFistedChampion said:
For now, I was just looking to concentrate on a single role for each character rather than multiple. Also, what about the rest of the characters?

I never used one other character, this team was extremely reliable for me throughout, I didnt concentrate on a single role really because they were all pretty important for me, especially the synergist role, I just spread CP around to each main role w/each character.

grumble · Mar 27, 2010

Himuro said:
Sigh. Grinded all afternoon. I've almost got every main role for my guys covered, then I'm going to take down some marks until the chocobo is unlocked and continue with the story.

You really didn't have to grind. If you just do the first few missions and kill the enemies along the way you'll be fine for the Tower. In the Tower, you'll get a top of XP anyways. If I were you I'd stop grinding completely until I was at the end of Chap. 11, then go back and start doing higher level missions then.

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