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Xbox E3 Conference 6/11 2pm PST

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T

Trup1aya

Member
jeffram said:
It's know TFs aren't the the entire story, but to hit true 4K in comparison to sony's checkard board on the pro, they need to increase resolution by 100% with only 40-50% more GPU power. The math doesn't make sense unless sacrifices are made elsewhere.

If devs chase true 4K and in doing so drop a few more frames than the do on the Pro, the headlines will read "Scorpio performs worse than PS4 pro" that's what happened to the pro when it dropped a frame or two while doubling the resolution of PS4 games.

I'd rather see devs use the power the way they want, and yes they are free to do what they want, but not completely free. Microsoft is trmpeting true 4K in their marketing which sets soft targets for devs, if only to appease what they think Microsoft wants or their consumers want.

My original post was not to cast any negative light on the Scorpio, but to point out that Microsoft is putting themselves in a bad spot with the "true 4k" marketing and I hope that they stop. Unfortunately, from what's come out from them in the last few weeks, it seems like that's don't intend to.
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The math doesnt make sense because that narrative isn't true unless you are trying to achieve that goal through brute strength. There are a number of efficiencies built into the system that allow the Scorpio to punch above its weight. It's all about alleviating bottlenecks.

Devs are going to do what they feel is right for their vision. I imagine we'll see plenty of native 4k, checkerboard solutions, and even 1080p with ultra effects - some games will let you choose between several options.

That doesn't make it wrong for ME to boast about the system being being true 4k capable.
 
J

jeffram

Member
Trup1aya said:
The math doesnt make sense because that narrative isn't true unless you are trying to achieve that goal through brute strength. There are a number of efficiencies built into the system that allow the Scorpio to punch above its weight. It's all about alleviating bottlenecks.

Devs are going to do what they feel is right for their vision. I imagine we'll see plenty of native 4k, checkerboard solutions, and even 1080p with ultra effects - some games will let you choose between several options.

That doesn't make it wrong for ME to boast about the system being being true 4k capable.
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i'm not doubting they've found some efficiencies, but you will have a tough time convincing me that they engineered the equivalent of 50% of the pro (2.1 TFs) into the Scorpio to make up the rest of a true 4k image.

I really don't want to get into system wars and spec wars though. My point is I don't like that Microsoft is marketing what the Scorpio can do (but probably shouldn't) as the core of their messaging.
 
SenjutsuSage

SenjutsuSage

Banned
Okay, so I just saw an interview where David Jones said that the full 100% destructibility of the entire city is strictly exclusive to multiplayer. In the SP portion of the game, you will have some level of destruction, but I'm guessing to not nearly the same extent as the MP.

Believe it or not that actually puts me at ease somewhat because the dev has to be able to control the experience and story somewhat. You can't go knocking down every damn building or important landmark that may be a crucial aspect of the campaign or mission design at any given moment.

This knock out, drag out destruction being in multiplayer alone makes it a lot more believable for me. Use it more sparingly in the SP to add to the experience, but don't turn it up to 11 like the mp.
 
A

AmyS

Member
Pachter predicting Xbox One Scorpio will be $399. Notes that 4K TV needs a killer app, video games are that killer app and Microsoft is not going to price themselves out of the market by setting Scorpio's price higher than $399, especially with 4K adoption increasing going forward.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ehdh4cwAS3o
 
SenjutsuSage

SenjutsuSage

Banned
jeffram said:
i'm not doubting they've found some efficiencies, but you will have a tough time convincing me that they engineered the equivalent of 50% of the pro (2.1 TFs) into the Scorpio to make up the rest of a true 4k image.

I really don't want to get into system wars and spec wars though. My point is I don't like that Microsoft is marketing what the Scorpio can do (but probably shouldn't) as the core of their messaging.
Click to expand...

So they built a platform to do something, and it's apparently doing it fairly well, and they shouldn't be advertising the hell out of that? I don't get it. You do realize there's a very strong possibility this system will run not just Destiny in true 4K, but possibly also even Red Dead 2 next year, COD this year, Assassin's Creed, star wars this year and no doubt some other major releases? They definitely should be talking it up. I have a 4K television, but most of my gaming won't Even should that trend not exactly last into 2019, that will have been a major promise kept.
 
SenjutsuSage

SenjutsuSage

Banned
AmyS said:
Pachter predicting Xbox One Scorpio will be $399. Notes that 4K TV needs a killer app, video games are that killer app and Microsoft is not going to price themselves out of the market by setting Scorpio's price higher than $399, especially with 4K adoption increasing going forward.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ehdh4cwAS3o
Click to expand...

Guess that now confirms Scorpio is more than $399? :p

I personally also expect $399.99.

God this avatar sucks. I forgot who I should hate for it lol.
 
S

Steelyuhas

Member
Agree with Pachter, I would be shocked if the base SKU isn't $399 (there will undoubtedly be a larger HDD SKU for more as well though).

EDIT: $249 PS4 Pro prediction holy shit Pachter is insane lol
 
A

AmyS

Member
I also completely agree with Pachter. I'd be shocked if Scorpio was anything above $399 for a base 1TB SKU.

They haven't done all this work only to repeat the mistakes of the original PS3 and XBone launch pricing ($599/$499 and $499, respectively).

If Xbox One S gets officially priced at $249 for Black Friday and the holidays, $399 Scorpio will definitely be a premium product with a premium price.
 
T

Trup1aya

Member
jeffram said:
i'm not doubting they've found some efficiencies, but you will have a tough time convincing me that they engineered the equivalent of 50% of the pro (2.1 TFs) into the Scorpio to make up the rest of a true 4k image.

I really don't want to get into system wars and spec wars though. My point is I don't like that Microsoft is marketing what the Scorpio can do (but probably shouldn't) as the core of their messaging.
Click to expand...

You're really focused too much on theoretical TFs, specifically the part of that equation that is handled by the GPU.

The main thing keeping the Xbox one from hitting 1080p was the memory.

In overly simplified terms, The Scorpio removes this bottleneck with its massive improvement in RAM- which would allow 900p games to run at 1080p. Then the Scorpio gpu being 4.6 times more powerful can get from 1080p to 4k with room to spare.
 
S

Steelyuhas

Member
Trup1aya said:
You're really focused too much on theoretical TFs, specifically the part of that equation that is handled by the GPU.

The main thing keeping the Xbox one from hitting 1080p was the memory.

In overly simplified terms, The Scorpio removes this bottleneck with its massive improvement in RAM- which would allow 900p games to run at 1080p. Then the Scorpio gpu being 4.6 times more powerful can get from 1080p to 4k with room to spare.
Click to expand...

Put aside people here trying to math there way to favorable or unfavorable potential for Scorpio for a second. Jez has stated numerous times with confidence (aka he's clearly been told from a good source) that Battlefront 2 is native 4k/60. That is a high player count and high fidelity game. Combine that with MSFT's statements that all their launch vicinity games will be native 4k and that the goal is that any 900p game on Xbox One can run 4k on Scorpio (which maybe someone could do the math on, but is probably the majority of AAA games on the platform), and I think we're looking at a pretty impressive console for $400.
 
MaulerX

MaulerX

Member
Trup1aya said:
You're really focused too much on theoretical TFs, specifically the part of that equation that is handled by the GPU.

The main thing keeping the Xbox one from hitting 1080p was the memory.

In overly simplified terms, The Scorpio removes this bottleneck with its massive improvement in RAM- which would allow 900p games to run at 1080p. Then the Scorpio gpu being 4.6 times more powerful can get from 1080p to 4k with room to spare.
Click to expand...




Not sure why people are hell bent on focusing strictly on TF's and ignore the RAM. The extra 3GB for games and the massive bandwidth will play a major role in reaching their 4K targets.
 
Y

Yoday

Member
Trup1aya said:
You're really focused too much on theoretical TFs, specifically the part of that equation that is handled by the GPU.

The main thing keeping the Xbox one from hitting 1080p was the memory.

In overly simplified terms, The Scorpio removes this bottleneck with its massive improvement in RAM- which would allow 900p games to run at 1080p. Then the Scorpio gpu being 4.6 times more powerful can get from 1080p to 4k with room to spare.
Click to expand...
I agree, this is one of the biggest problems with people focusing on TFs. People jump to conclusions based solely on a theoretical number that doesn't really mean much. PS4 Pro isn't being held back by it's GPU, it's being held back by it's memory. The memory and bandwidth of the Pro were the biggest indicators to me that the goal of the Pro was a simple resolution doubling, most likely for VR. The checkerboarding is there because they knew it was going to be hard to sell a 1440p upgrade to anyone beyond the VR early adopters.
 
BatSu

BatSu

Member
splinter-cell-1-e1496786210445.jpg


splinter-cell-3-e1496786380722.jpg


https://trademarks.justia.com/874/49/splinter-87449315.html
 
T

Trup1aya

Member
Steelyuhas said:
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MaulerX said:
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Yoday said:
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Yeah, I don't understand the concern at this point. The fact that MS went on record saying this, mere weeks before e3 tells me that not only are they confident that today's popular engines will hit native 4k, but they've already achieved it with both 1st and 3rd parties and are excited to show it.

"As we landed on 4K, Andrew [Goossen] and team did a pretty deep analysis," Gammill continues. "We have this developer tool called PIX [Performance Investigator for Xbox]. It lets us do some GPU trace capture. He and his team did a really deep analysis across a breadth of titles with the goal that any 900p or better title would be able to easily run at frame-rate at 4K on Scorpio. That was our big stake in the ground, and so with that we began our work speccing out what the Scorpio Engine is. It's not a process of calling up AMD and saying I'll take this part, this part and this part. A lot of really specific custom work went into this."
Click to expand...

The rumors about battlefield sealing the deal doesnt seem farfetched at this point.
 
V

Vico

Member
The problem I had with Crackdown 3 back in 2015, and the reason why I never fully felt it could be the showcase game Xbox desperately needs, was that it looked cell-shaded, as well as being a successor to games that looked and felt a bit janky and "slow".

The multiplayer destruction footage looked great, but it still seemed to feel slow and sluggish, especially after great open-world traversal games like Sunset Overdrive.

I don't really know what to expect, to be honest, but they have a lot to do to win me over.
 
wapplew

wapplew

Member
So, with all the insider saying Crackdown, Sea of thieves and State of decay ready to blow mind.
Now rumor Splintercell could be Xbox yearly third party exclusive, MH5 on Xbox, possible Ninja Gaiden exclusive.
With Scorpio native 4K and 60fps at $399, this is shaping up to be a legendary conference.
Expect a lot crow served to the naysayer
insider
.
 
D

darkinstinct

...lacks reading comprehension.
SenjutsuSage said:
Guess that now confirms Scorpio is more than $399? :p

I personally also expect $399.99.

God this avatar sucks. I forgot who I should hate for it lol.
Click to expand...

Everything Spencer has done over the past year was build up low expectations regarding the price. I fully expect a $349 announcement for Scorpio, reducing One S at the same time to $199.

Now rumor Splintercell could be Xbox yearly third party exclusive, MH5 on Xbox, possible Ninja Gaiden exclusive.
Click to expand...

Splinter Cell has basically always been Xbox exclusive, it was available on PS platforms but it was always treated as "the not MGS stealth game". But really it was Xbox's MGS game. Ninja Gaiden also started as an Xbox exclusive and treating it as such again makes a lot of sense.
 
R

Raide

Member
Vico said:
The problem I had with Crackdown 3 back in 2015, and the reason why I never fully felt it could be the showcase game Xbox desperately needs, was that it looked cell-shaded, as well as being a successor to games that looked and felt a bit janky and "slow".

The multiplayer destruction footage looked great, but it still seemed to feel slow and sluggish, especially after great open-world traversal games like Sunset Overdrive.

I don't really know what to expect, to be honest, but they have a lot to do to win me over.
Click to expand...

Well, that's how Crackdown is. The early games started off slow because you had to level up the agent, which progressively made you harder, better, faster and stronger. I expect CD3 to have a deeper levelling curve but you will certainly start off slow and it all gets faster and better as you progress.
 
W

willbsn13

Member
darkinstinct said:
Everything Spencer has done over the past year was build up low expectations regarding the price. I fully expect a $349 announcement for Scorpio, reducing One S at the same time to $199.
Click to expand...

Or, he's just been managing expectations so when they do reveal an 'expensive' price like $499, he can say "Well I've been saying this whole time it's a premium console"

There's no way they're launching it for $349.
 
R

Raide

Member
willbsn13 said:
Or, he's just been managing expectations so when they do reveal an 'expensive' price like $499, he can say "Well I've been saying this whole time it's a premium console"

There's no way they're launching it for $349.
Click to expand...
If it's 499, they basically have to spend the entire conference convincing people why Scorpio is worth the price. If it's 399, then the same showing will seem like a bargain

Very interested to see what MS says and does.
 
W

willbsn13

Member
Raide said:
If it's 499, they basically have to spend the entire conference convincing people why Scorpio is worth the price. If it's 399, then the same showing will seem like a bargain

Very interested to see what MS says and does.
Click to expand...

Same. I was on the $399 train but now I'm starting to think it's $499
 
eso76

eso76

Member
proper Splinter Cell, Ninja Gaiden (remaster/remake with intact gameplay. i don't trust them to be able to deliver a new legit Ninja Gaiden) Forza 7 and an update for FH3 and i'm in for 449.

Not that 50$ really make a difference.
 
B

Bits N Pieces

Member
If it is over £400 then no way am I getting one this year.

Needs to come in about £349, max. You can pick up an S from anywhere between £189 to £249 at the moment. Anything close to £400 will be retail suicide here in the UK.
 
R

Raide

Member
Bits N Pieces said:
If it is over £400 then no way am I getting one this year.

Needs to come in about £349, max. You can pick up an S from anywhere between £189 to £249 at the moment. Anything close to £400 will be retail suicide here in the UK.
Click to expand...

Be prepared to not buy one till next year. No way will they hit 349. Unless they have some crazy deal going on, be prepared to wait.

349 basically says it's not that good if the price is close to the S. 400 is saying it's a new system worth investing in.
 
Salty Hippo

Salty Hippo

Member
Steelyuhas said:
Even if Rare has something else cooking, I don't really expect them to risk undercutting​ Sea of Thieves with another Rare game.
Click to expand...

This is a good point. Rare announcing a new Banjo would be like "Hey Rare fans here is the game you've actually wanted this whole time, you can forget about that pirate MMO bullshit now". There's no way it's happening.
 
J

jmartoine

Member
Salty Hippo said:
This is a good point. Rare announcing a new Banjo would be like "Hey Rare fans here is the game you've actually wanted this whole time, you can forget about that pirate MMO bullshit now". There's no way it's happening.
Click to expand...

I could see them announcing the rumour Battletoads reboot but not a new Banjo.
 
Welfare

Welfare

Member
Raide said:
Be prepared to not buy one till next year. No way will they hit 349. Unless they have some crazy deal going on, be prepared to wait.

349 basically says it's not that good if the price is close to the S. 400 is saying it's a new system worth investing in.
Click to expand...
£349 is $399.
 
Welfare

Welfare

Member
Raide said:
$399 = £399.

Don't get me wrong, I would love £349 but I just don't see it happening. CouCould be utterly wrong!
Click to expand...
PS4, XB1 without Kinect, and PS4 Pro were £349 while in the US were $399. Euro is straight conversion $399 = €399.
 
E

EvB

Member
Vico said:
The problem I had with Crackdown 3 back in 2015, and the reason why I never fully felt it could be the showcase game Xbox desperately needs, was that it looked cell-shaded, as well as being a successor to games that looked and felt a bit janky and "slow".
Click to expand...

Both of the previous games well "cel-shaded" too, the whole visual style of the games was meant to be comic book like:
It is a superhero game...
 
R

Raide

Member
EvB said:
It's totally going to be battletoads.
They've even been making merch for it.
Click to expand...

God damn I am sick of Battletoads and nothing has happened outside of KI! Such a boring use of RARE Dev time. Farm it out for some 2d Indie game ffs.

Sea of Thieves looks like some good old Rare gameplay and style.
 
Marvel

Marvel

could never
Raide said:
God damn I am sick of Battletoads and nothing has happened outside of KI! Such a boring use of RARE Dev time. Farm it out for some 2d Indie game ffs.

Sea of Thieves looks like some good old Rare gameplay and style.
Click to expand...
With you on that.
 
E

EmiPrime

Member
Bits N Pieces said:
If it is over £400 then no way am I getting one this year.

Needs to come in about £349, max. You can pick up an S from anywhere between £189 to £249 at the moment. Anything close to £400 will be retail suicide here in the UK.
Click to expand...

Yep, I am out if it's over £350. I won't be unhappy if my One S continues to be a 360 BC, GWG and exclusives machine, I'll still be in the Xbox ecosystem but if they price someone like me out of Scorpio (current Xbox One owner, 4K TV and receiver), then their audience for that in the UK is going to be ridiculously small.
 
B

Black Mantis

Member
EvB said:
Both of the previous games well "cel-shaded" too, the whole visual style of the games was meant to be comic book like:
It is a superhero game...
Click to expand...

Yep and I'm glad they're keeping that style from what we've seen so far, gives it a colourful, vibrant look that isn't really on show in many other action games.
 
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