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Strong (not sexualised) female characters in this generation?

S

Sneaky Gato

Member
BigJiantRobut said:
Character-wise, absolutely, but let's be real here:

Their visual design was totally designed to be sexy (terrible old official art as it may be) in a dom kind of way. This kind of character design pops up in male-oriented fiction a lot, and video games are no exception. It ain't a bad thing, but let's not pretend they wear black metal boots for no reason.
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Completely agreed on that. Out of universe their designs were heavily sexualized. Thankfully the decisions that led to those designs were very much a product of their time and enviorment and the new ones look to better reflect the sisters character.
 
J

jim-jam bongs

Member
I must admit that I can't help but think that discussing sexualisation within a fictional universe featuring as exaggerated a design ethos as that of 40k is a bit of a dead-end. The more interesting thing about the design in 40k, in my opinion, is that it's one of idealisation rather than sexualisation. I do feel though that, like Bayonetta, the fixation on sexual tropes as ideal representations of femininity somewhat undermine the strength of the characters.
 
S

SapientWolf

Trucker Sexologist
jim-jam bongs said:
I must admit that I can't help but think that discussing sexualisation within a fictional universe featuring as exaggerated a design ethos as that of 40k is a bit of a dead-end. The more interesting thing about the design in 40k, in my opinion, is that it's one of idealisation rather than sexualisation. I do feel though that, like Bayonetta, the fixation on sexual tropes as ideal representations of femininity somewhat undermine the strength of the characters.
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Bayonetta is basically the female version of Dante.
 
K

Kalnos

Banned
jim-jam bongs said:
I must admit that I can't help but think that discussing sexualisation within a fictional universe featuring as exaggerated a design ethos as that of 40k is a bit of a dead-end. The more interesting thing about the design in 40k, in my opinion, is that it's one of idealisation rather than sexualisation. I do feel though that, like Bayonetta, the fixation on sexual tropes as ideal representations of femininity somewhat undermine the strength of the characters.
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Yeah, you said it better than I did. I think it's a person to person interpretation with some of the characters.
 
B

BlazingDarkness

Member
nariko.jpg

folklorecostume.jpg

another-code-two-memories.325717.jpg

xqgha8.png

emma.jpg

xenoblade-carna-artwork-2.png


Harder to think than I thought
 
I

Inanna

Not pure anymore!
fernoca said:
Basically. XD

OMG, she's wearing a tank top..that slut!!!
OMG, she moans when she's in pain..so she's having multiple orgasms!!!


I thought my earlier mentions were going to be "lame"; but turns out that:
Chell: lol tanktop = boobs
Elena: Short pants in #1 and shows belly in #2 = slut
Lara: Tank top and moans in the demo = Sexual intentions
Zelda: lol animu = panties = sex
Click to expand...
When I say sexual moans and groans, I mean Gloria or Trish from DMC or Bayonetta, definitely not talking about Lara from the recent Tomb Raider game, you could tell that she was in pain.
 
S

SolidSnakex

Member
SapientWolf said:
Bayonetta is basically the female version of Dante.
Click to expand...

That's really not true. Kamiya said being "cool" was the theme for Dante while "sexiness" was the theme for Bayonetta. You can see that in the marketing and movesets for each character. Dante's moves were all there to make him look cool. Bayonetta's moves are there to make her look sexy. She's almost naked during her strongest attacks. And the marketing differences are very clear. Sega even did a promotion with Playboy for Bayonetta.
 
T

Tylahedras

Banned
tumblr_lo9yolx8fR1qisbe6o1_400.jpg


She is strong but...
it's a trap.
So is she still sexualized if you're cock blocked by her back story?
literally?

Really I just want an excuse to mention her since I think she's one of the better "strong female" characters this gen, other issues aside.
 
B

BlazingDarkness

Member
Tylahedras said:
tumblr_lo9yolx8fR1qisbe6o1_400.jpg


She is strong but...
it's a trap.
So is she still sexualized if you're cock blocked by her back story?
literally?

Really I just want an excuse to mention her since I think she's one of the better "strong female" characters this gen, other issues aside.
Click to expand...

She's definitely strong, but also very sexualized, much like Bayonetta.
 
B

BocoDragon

or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
What's "sexualized"?

Seems to be:

1. Female body parts exaggerated
2. Less clothing
3. Sexually alluring facial expressions and poses

The funny thing is that no one would ever read a male character as "sexualized" even if he had ripped biceps, wore nothing but a speedo, and had a "rape time" look on his face.

There are tons of unrealistic portrayals of masculinity in videogames. They're nearly ALL unrealistic fantasy portrayals that most real men can not live up to. But only when it's fantasy femininity do people equate it with sex and exploitation.

I can appreciate the desire for a variety of diverse characters across the board... and so I do appreciate this thread. But I think the implicit assumption that beautiful fantasy women are "wrong/disgusting/laughable/pandering" is silly. These are video games... a realm of pure fantasy. It's ok to see fantasy men with amazing masculine features, just as it is ok to see fantasy women with amazing feminine features.
 
J

jim-jam bongs

Member
BocoDragon said:
What's "sexualized"?

*snip*
Click to expand...

I think it's a lot less complicated than all of that. To me there is a degree of objectification which goes along with sexualisation which isn't necessary when creating a sexy character. If a character merely exists to be an object of sexual fantasy then they become sexualised, while a character who possesses many traits one of which happens to be a strong sexuality does not.
 
T

Tylahedras

Banned
BlazingDarkness said:
She's definitely strong, but also very sexualized, much like Bayonetta.
Click to expand...

While I certainly wouldn't argue with you. I brought her up simply because while her design certainly is sexualized (the game even jokes about it). She does not exist in the context of the game as a sexual item, attainment or object of affection for the player. And her characterization, personality and speech are not sexualized.

So she looks the part but certainly doesn't play it. Bayoneta definitely does.

*Edit: Hell one could argue the Alex Vance is more sexualized since even though she wears plain clothes she's actually the romantic object of the player character. And she's meant to be viewed with that type of protective affection by the person playing.
 
Finaika

Finaika

Member
147599-01285966-photo-valkyria-chronicles.jpg


Selvaria from Valkyria Chronicles.

Despite having big, juicy boobs & a huge sword that looks like a penis, she's not sexualised at all.
 
W

WrenchNinja

Member
Gravijah said:
Ghost Trick spoilers. Do not cross this black line unless you have beaten the game.

Sissel the Cat, of course.
Click to expand...
The cat is male, it's the fiancee that's female. Sissel is a gender neutral name based off of Cecil and Cecille.
 
R

RyL

Banned
this gen: none, nada, nichts, zero

previous gens:

Meche from Grim Fandango

meche.jpg


and maybe Sam from The Getaway Black Monday

s23442_ps2_14.jpg


I think sexualizing starts when the main character or NPC is expected/has to be (overly) beautiful to be considered strong and noteworthy. Back in the days technology was the limiting factor but what's wrong with adding some "imperfections" with today's tech? You know like giving them "normal" sized breasts, don't make them ass monster for once or more face specific, add some dark circles under the eyes or how about eye bags, lines, beauty spots (birthmarks, sunspots, brown dots or whatever you call them) etc. you name it.

Even people who are considered pretty (in real life) have to deal with their fair share of blemishes. That's why most female videogame character still look like lifeless barbie dolls to me. Videogame artists don't seem to have any problems making their male counterparts all rough and wrinkly, so it's definitely not a hardware-limitation issue.

And don't get me started about the actual persona and characteristics of female characters in videogames. Pretty much all of them seem to have the mindset of a 12 year old girl or worse.

It's so sad that you really have to think hard to come up with something. Well, some will argue that videogames are still a new medium... but to be honest, gaming really isn't anymore.



// also, I had a good laugh at all the guys who posted the uncharted bubble butt monster Chloe
 
B

BocoDragon

or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
jim-jam bongs said:
I think it's a lot less complicated than all of that. To me there is a degree of objectification which goes along with sexualisation which isn't necessary when creating a sexy character. If a character merely exists to be an object of sexual fantasy then they become sexualised, while a character who possesses many traits one of which happens to be a strong sexuality does not.
Click to expand...
You have a point. The "you know it when you see it" doctrine.

Is it wrong though? It's just appealing to a fantasy.

I don't think you could make a male character "sexualized" because there isn't the same perception of masculinity (or might I add, the same desire on the part of both men and women to cover female bodies and "keep them modest").

But with male characters, the fantasy fufillment angle might be something else.... the super-tough, alpha male 'man-in-uniform' is itself a pandering fantasy which can appeal to both men and women... but no one seems to worry about that fantasy characteristic as much. Maybe because that fantasy isn't defined by sexuality, a touchy subject? Maybe because the masculine ideal is traditionally represented by possessing great skills, and not for possessing great looks, so it can be legitimized as serving a purpose beyond just the fantasy?

The point is, I don't think sexy female characters are at all wrong in the context of fantasy wish-fulfillment media, such as gaming. As I said, if people want to seek less-sexualized female characters, I can appreciate that as well. I would just hope people don't see fantastic femininity as a "wrong" which should be eliminated... it's quite natural. And, there is just as much fantastic masculinity in gaming, even if "sexuality" is not perceived to be as much of a component in that trait.
 
T

Typographenia

Member
RyL said:
this gen: none, nada, nichts, zero
Click to expand...
You keep thinking that!


Thanks, a Master Ninja. I felt as though my picks have been completely lost in the thread arguing over characters that are just kind of meh, but I know better, now.
 
J

jim-jam bongs

Member
BocoDragon said:
You have a point. The "you know it when you see it" doctrine.

Is it wrong though? It's just appealing to a fantasy.

I don't think you could make a male character "sexualized" because there isn't the same perception of masculinity (or might I add, the same desire on the part of both men and women to cover female bodies and "keep them modest").

But with male characters, the fantasy fufillment angle might be something else.... the super-tough, alpha male 'man-in-uniform' is itself a pandering fantasy which can appeal to both men and women... but no one seems to worry about that fantasy characteristic as much. Maybe because that fantasy isn't defined by sexuality, a touchy subject? Maybe because the masculine ideal is traditionally represented by possessing great skills, and not for possessing great looks, so it can be legitimized as serving a purpose beyond just the fantasy?

The point is, I don't think sexy female characters are at all wrong in the context of fantasy wish-fulfillment media, such as gaming. As I said, if people want to seek less-sexualized female characters, I can appreciate that as well. I would just hope people don't see fantastic femininity as a "wrong" which should be eliminated... it's quite natural. And, there is just as much fantastic masculinity in gaming, even if "sexuality" is not perceived to be as much of a component in that trait.
Click to expand...

I don't think that it's wrong to create a character for the purposes of some type of fantasy fulfilment but I think it takes away from the potential strength of the character most of the time. The problem is that you have this character who is supposed to be strong and independent but at their core is subject to the whims and desires of a creator, or controller in the case of the player, who sees them as a sexual ideal. This can be true for male or female characters if they exist for this purpose, Edward in the Twilight series will forever be a slave to his uncontrollable lust for Stephenie Mey- um, I mean Bella.

As for the difference between the genders, that's another prickly one. A big problem is that the traits which are idealised and exaggerated in the male power fantasy characters are more commonly considered to be desirable traits which define the very art of manliness. In contrast, even today the attitudes which a lot of people take towards female sexuality are dreadfully prudish, and that goes for the attitudes of both men and women. Women can actually be the meanest of slut-shamers.

Lastly, I agree with your final point completely. I think that the historical dominance of men within the games industry has led to a lot of the oversexualisation which makes people uncomfortable. As more women enter the industry I think this will improve, and there will be enough of a balance being provided by the existence of a broad range of genuinely strong, sexy female leads standing shoulder to shoulder with their strong, sexy male counterparts.
 
B

BocoDragon

or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
jim-jam bongs said:
I don't think that it's wrong to create a character for the purposes of some type of fantasy fulfilment but I think it takes away from the potential strength of the character most of the time. The problem is that you have this character who is supposed to be strong and independent but at their core is subject to the whims and desires of a creator, or controller in the case of the player, who sees them as a sexual ideal. This can be true for male or female characters if they exist for this purpose, Edward in the Twilight series will forever be a slave to his uncontrollable lust for Stephenie Mey- um, I mean Bella.

As for the difference between the genders, that's another prickly one. A big problem is that the traits which are idealised and exaggerated in the male power fantasy characters are more commonly considered to be desirable traits which define the very art of manliness. In contrast, even today the attitudes which a lot of people take towards female sexuality are dreadfully prudish, and that goes for the attitudes of both men and women. Women can actually be the meanest of slut-shamers.

Lastly, I agree with your final point completely. I think that the historical dominance of men within the games industry has led to a lot of the oversexualisation which makes people uncomfortable. As more women enter the industry I think this will improve, and there will be enough of a balance being provided by the existence of a broad range of genuinely strong, sexy female leads standing shoulder to shoulder with their strong, sexy male counterparts.
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Yeah.. I guess the ideal would be a plurality of different male and female character styles. Obviously this industry is a bit skewed toward the adolescent male consumer, not unlike comic books, and it should branch out into creating characters with a wider appeal. It'll happen.
 
T

TekkenMaster

Banned
To a heterosexual male, every attractive female is "sexualized". It's how humans are biologically programmed.

The only way a female character wouldn't be "sexualized" would be to cover her from head to toe in a burka.
 
V

Varna

Member
clemenx said:
Only 1 Shanoa mention in the thread. GAF sucks.
OoE_Shanoa.jpg
Click to expand...

Can't think of a single thing she does or says that makes her a strong female lead. She is just female for the sake of eye candy.
 
W

WrenchNinja

Member
Varna said:
Can't think of a single thing she does or says that makes her a strong female lead. She is just female for the sake of eye candy.
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Yeah, isn't she just an empty vessel with no personality or emotions for most of the game?
 
B

bhlaab

Member
fernoca said:
  • Lara Croft (Tomb Raider -new one-...so far)

4ITCB.png
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You joking?? It appears that she spends all of her time being either raped or beaten.

I mean she's probably going to become a badass in the last hour of the game because god forbid a woman be strong without passing a trial by fire
 
W

WrenchNinja

Member
Kiiji said:
You realize that TP shows Zelda surrendering her entire kingdom to Zant in order to save her own life, right? She's also kept as a prisoner for the majority of the game. Not to mention that many of the characters in the game (especially Midna, and Zelda herself included IIRC) constantly remind you that she is completely detached from the average citizen and can't understand suffering (especially the Twili's). The only heroic things she does are at the very end of the game.
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Yeah, TP Zelda is kind of awful. Actually most Zeldas are awful. Apart from maybe Tetra, but then she turned into a damsel in distress too. There's Spirit Tracks Zelda though, she actually does things in the game since she's playable and your "fairy companion", has an actual personality and character arc.
 
S

SolidSnakex

Member
bhlaab said:
I mean she's probably going to become a badass in the last hour of the game because god forbid a woman be strong without passing a trial by fire
Click to expand...

That's who Lara was in previous games, but how many people gave the developers credit for that? I remember people laughing at the idea of Lara being a strong female character in previous threads.
 
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