Exactly, he even knew what he said was harsh and the trolling after is incredibly obvious and I find it really hard to comprehend that people think he's being serious still.
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Fez's dev to japanese developers: "your games just suck"
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Exactly, he even knew what he said was harsh and the trolling after is incredibly obvious and I find it really hard to comprehend that people think he's being serious still.
Didn't he thank him for answering or something? Didn't the Japanese guy say something at the end. Maybe I'm wrong.
Usually in those things they do let people have follow up questions. Give him a chance to ask "what aspects of Japanese games don't you like?" or he could have said "they all suck?" or whatever.
If the guy did have a chance to respond but didn't then that would be sad. Could have prevented a thread of rage.
MCs or moderators do follow up questions too. Especially when someone avoids a question or gives a half assed response.
That's all I'm gonna say I stand by my other point just think it's pointless to argue in circles. Just wanted to bring up the point that A follow up could have changed the situation.
Just like how all FPS players have been playing DOOM and rehashes of DOOM over and over since 1993, amirite?
Zoe
Member
Riposte
Member
We'd all be better off if that was true.
EDIT: Calling The Last Remnant, FFXIII, and Radiant Historia rehashes of DQ would be pretty funny.
Rahxephon91
Banned
What? What the fuck char?
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Deleted member 17706
Unconfirmed Member
"touch screen gaming" is equivalent to "games from Japan" to you?
Saying you think touch screens suck for gaming is very different than saying that you think games from a specific country, regardless of platform, universally suck.
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Deleted member 17706
Unconfirmed Member
Not exactly what you're looking for, but there was an interesting RPS article on the topic linked earlier in this thread.
http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2012/03/07/the-competition-the-story-behind-the-igfs-critics/
The question was in response to modern Japanese games- not all Japanese games. I don't agree with him entirely but I still think he's an amusing and talented person and I love Japanese games lol.
DukeTogo1300
Member
Won't be buying Fez because of this unforgivable rudeness and arrogance. Go develop some fucking social skills chief.
Pyrrhus
Member
Same here. There are plenty of games to play that are made by people who don't want me to choke on their dicks. Didn't this sort of hubris and needless antagonism all but end John Romero's career?
I'm not 'pretending'; the situations aren't remotely comparable.
You seem to believe 'a putdown is a putdown', regardless of the context. That's completely untrue. Context matters.
Let's look at the situation again, this time taking context into account.
a) Japanese developer makes positive comments about film, asks what Fish thinks about Japanese games. Fish responds by ripping on all games from the man's home country in about the most tactless, rude fashion possible, in front of a room full of people.
b) NeoGAF gets wind of Fish's actions. In response to what he said and did, several people declare that he's a douche, some of them going so far as to inform him of this online.
Now, are you honestly going to sit there and tell me that those are both the same thing, because they both involve someone being put down? Really?
Since you still don't seem to get it, let me put this to you as unambiguously as possible.
Unnamed Japanese Developer didn't do anything to deserve the dickish treatment he received from Fish.
Fish, by being a real dick to someone for no good reason, has earned the response he's receiving.
That's about as simple as it gets, and if you still can't understand it, I don't know what else to tell you.
What the fuck? No, I wouldn't actually, keep your horseshit hivemind vast generalizations to yourself please.
Fixed that for you.
I don't understand this. I like music by sex pistols, oasis, john lennon and babylon zoo. Personally I think they're all dickheads, and i'd give the world to smack the shit out of Liam. But that wouldn't stop me buying their music. Games are no different.
Refuse to by the game because you don't like it, not because the guy who made it is arrogant.
i was lying about babylon zoo
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Deleted member 17706
Unconfirmed Member
What's not to understand? The sentiment has been explained many times already in this thread.
If someone has given me good reason to dislike them, I don't want to see them succeed and expand their influence. There's no way I'd support this guy monetarily.
SatelliteOfLove
Member
If he was a super-nice guy, simpletons that have plagued this thread would not be making up reasons to defend him, as there would be no story. I can't tell if its his bravado wooing them to his side or that they're of his moral ilk, but it's happening.
That, and say, Richie Blackmore have the sense to "put out media" and "get famous" parts before "act like socially retarded shitstain". He can't even do that right.
Valjean Lafitte
Banned
I've never heard of Fez or Phil Fish before today. Who the heck is this guy and how did he get to be so well-known without ever actually releasing a game? I mean, I get that he is the focus of a documentary and all, but why?
Years of relentless touring, networking and schmoozing.
DukeTogo1300
Member
Lets not start comparing Fez to the greats of music just yet. I don't really consider the game industry to have the same value tied to antics and attitude like with rock stars. Characters like Sid Vicious are so over-the-top that their flaws become part of the appeal. And come on, it's punk. Even so, I pretty much stopped giving a fuck about Oasis after their comments, and slightly less so for the Pumpkins after pulling the same stunt. Did the quality of the music outweigh the antics? Sometimes yes, sometimes no. Bottom line, there is a bit of a difference between saying, "We're the next ______." , and making a negative sweeping statement about an entire nation's game industry, to the face one of their developers, in front of fellow developers and fans, after he's just given you accolades.
Games are more available than they've ever been, I am swimming in my backlog here, so I don't see why I should look the other way when I just don't really need Fish's game.
Wok
Member
Bad publicity is not what we call advertisement.
I won't buy any game in the development of which this guy is possibly involved: not only was he rude with his audience, but he is still being rude after winning - it is questionable whether the game deserves the prize.
Even the Project Zomboid guys did not go that far, and they were annoyed about the loss of their data. This guy has won, he has no reason to behave badly.
His fifteen minutes of fame should be definitely gone by now.
VeryGooster
Banned
People should be allowed to do whatever they want with their money. Either way it will mean a sale for Fez or it won't.
I don't think I've said this in this thread yet because I didn't want to get caught up in another bitchfest, but I think the biggest double-edged sword for Japanese gaming recently has been the lack of iteration compared to the west.
When one shooter does something really useful, everybody else making shooters will copy it, which has allowed the genre to collectively make several quantum leaps in the last 20 years. Modern Warfare looks and feels in a whole other world from Wolfenstein 3D. JRPGs or shmups however, collectively haven't changed nearly as much in the same amount of time. Playing Chrono Trigger for the first time a couple years ago, it still does a lot of things better than most JRPGs released in the 17 years since.
The upside to that for the Japanese though is that their genres, like JRPGs and adventure games, tend to feel a lot more varied than shooters do right now. If the industry had learned from CT back in the day, or FFXII recently, I don't think we'd be having all these complaints about JRPGs today, but then again we'd probably be complaining about how similarly they all play.
I think this applies to the tech side of things too. Iterative middleware has allowed western devs to blaze past the Japanese, who until recently mostly built each game on its own engine. On the other hand, that allowed their games to look a lot more distinct from one another.
Other than that I would say that Japan's main weakness is that they don't have the money to compete with the big western studios. It's like the Japanese film industry going up against Hollywood. They'll give you some creative stuff, but not with the same production value.
When one shooter does something really useful, everybody else making shooters will copy it, which has allowed the genre to collectively make several quantum leaps in the last 20 years. Modern Warfare looks and feels in a whole other world from Wolfenstein 3D. JRPGs or shmups however, collectively haven't changed nearly as much in the same amount of time. Playing Chrono Trigger for the first time a couple years ago, it still does a lot of things better than most JRPGs released in the 17 years since.
The upside to that for the Japanese though is that their genres, like JRPGs and adventure games, tend to feel a lot more varied than shooters do right now. If the industry had learned from CT back in the day, or FFXII recently, I don't think we'd be having all these complaints about JRPGs today, but then again we'd probably be complaining about how similarly they all play.
I think this applies to the tech side of things too. Iterative middleware has allowed western devs to blaze past the Japanese, who until recently mostly built each game on its own engine. On the other hand, that allowed their games to look a lot more distinct from one another.
Other than that I would say that Japan's main weakness is that they don't have the money to compete with the big western studios. It's like the Japanese film industry going up against Hollywood. They'll give you some creative stuff, but not with the same production value.
I don't think that's accurate if it's meant a blanket statement. Whatever its other faults, FFXIII is a graphical powerhouse on the PS3, while games like Bayonetta and Vanquish managed to look great despite being made on a budget much smaller than something like Gears.
RE 5 is another Japanese game that had very good graphics.
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Deleted member 17706
Unconfirmed Member
Nice find! Definitely looks like that's the guy.
SatelliteOfLove
Member
You saw this post back in the day too, huh?
Shadow of the Beast said:
And it's one hundred percent correct.
This too. (Granted, this too has been said before, but it's too complex a concept to directly refute the rush to circle-jerk Fish).
The idea -- seemingly repeated several times throughout this thread -- that the FPS genre evolves more than the JRPG is literally mind boggling to me. It feels like a lot of people don't bother to understand JRPG combat systems and how iterative they can be.
It's like saying, "American cinema is so much more innovative than German cinema. All of those actors still speak in German in EVERY MOVIE. Can you believe how little progress they've made?" It's incredibly reductive and seemingly only a very surface level assessment of the genre.
It's like saying, "American cinema is so much more innovative than German cinema. All of those actors still speak in German in EVERY MOVIE. Can you believe how little progress they've made?" It's incredibly reductive and seemingly only a very surface level assessment of the genre.
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Deleted member 17706
Unconfirmed Member
Reading Hiro's Twitter (as well as the feeds of other Japanese people that spoke with Hiro), and I really feel sorry for him even more.
Apparently he paid his own way to come to GDC for the first time so he could hear some great talks and learn new things. He studied English hardcore beforehand, and even switched his language at home to English just to practice for the conference. Then, on his first day at GDC, he works up his courage to ask Fish a question, and gets berated like that.
Anyway, the guy seems like he's really nice. The response really got to him, though. He posted at 3:00am the night of the incident saying he couldn't sleep.
Apparently he paid his own way to come to GDC for the first time so he could hear some great talks and learn new things. He studied English hardcore beforehand, and even switched his language at home to English just to practice for the conference. Then, on his first day at GDC, he works up his courage to ask Fish a question, and gets berated like that.
Anyway, the guy seems like he's really nice. The response really got to him, though. He posted at 3:00am the night of the incident saying he couldn't sleep.
RomanticHeroX
Member
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Deleted member 17706
Unconfirmed Member
That's him.
SatelliteOfLove
Member
"Buh buh buh, Japanese games are teh suxxorz, doncha get it?!?"
I'd like for him to show his side of the event, but it would be hard to get a foreign interview with him, I'd think after this and all the ball-washing going on of his insulter.
I mean, JRPG combat systems can be very iterative within each franchise, but they very rarely influence the genre as a whole.
LiquidSolid
Member
Gamecock, Hot Coffee Mod, BMX XXX, Bulletstorm and Six Days in Fallujah. Do you think any of the controversies sparked around these were beneficial?
Series like GTA and COD can shrug off controversy because they're already established and hugely popular series, whereas Fish is relatively unknown and quickly making his name moreso for being a dick than a good game designer. Anyone with half a brain could see that that's an idiotic idea.
Digging deep in the archives, there... totally forgot about that game. What a terrible concept for a game lol.
BlazingDarkness
Member
EmCeeGramr
Member
Is this the guy, then? http://jp.linkedin.com/pub/makoto-goto/1a/212/4a3
LiquidSolid
Member
It was mentioned in a thread somewhat recently so was fresh in the mind. It got a ton of controversy and sold like crap so it's a pretty good example of controversy that really didn't pay off.
HiroProtagonist
Member
That's awful. I feel terrible for the guy.
Stay classy Fish and the people defending his sorry ass.
RomanticHeroX
Member
Learning about that guy does tie a nice little bow on the incident. He's apparently been quietly working in the industry for two decades, saved money and made the commitment to travel abroad to improve his craft, then the only reason his name becomes known is for being publicly insulted. This will blow over, he'll go on and spend another two decades making games without getting much attention, while Fish continues to be an indie darling and may even release a game or two.
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Deleted member 17706
Unconfirmed Member
Found the article where Hiro was interviewed:
http://gadget.itmedia.co.jp/gg/articles/1203/08/news098.html
At the end he asks the interviewer to not turn the article into something that bashes Phil or the industry.
Hiro says he wants to take Phil's comments back to Japan and use them as motivation to develop better games. He says he personally interpreted Phil's comment as a kind of encouragement (a cheer) to Japanese developers.
Also, apparently Hiro didn't leave the room after the panel was done answering, he just changed seats to get out of the spotlight.
http://gadget.itmedia.co.jp/gg/articles/1203/08/news098.html
At the end he asks the interviewer to not turn the article into something that bashes Phil or the industry.
Hiro says he wants to take Phil's comments back to Japan and use them as motivation to develop better games. He says he personally interpreted Phil's comment as a kind of encouragement (a cheer) to Japanese developers.
Also, apparently Hiro didn't leave the room after the panel was done answering, he just changed seats to get out of the spotlight.
..and the backpedaling begins? I wonder if Microsoft had a word with him.
Zoramon089
Banned
This is silly.
He does have a point...it's basically Crush with an awesome art style
But honestly, he could have said much worse...at least he didn't call for the complete genocide of all japanese
BlazingDarkness
Member
It's too late now, maybe Fish should hold his tongue next time.
Sure he may have apologized but he also went onto Twitter and fired off a load of detestable messages to people, making himself look like an egotistical tosser
No sympathy from me
Sure he may have apologized but he also went onto Twitter and fired off a load of detestable messages to people, making himself look like an egotistical tosser
No sympathy from me
After reading some more, apparently Phil Fish apologized right after the comment and the actual answer itself was more extended. Then again, I'm getting this info from his own twitter feed (which is also full of pretty over the top and out there replies to other people...).
Either way, insulting the whole Japanese industry just like that isn't the smartest thing to do when you've spent over 4 years on a title that's not really all that unique.
Either way, insulting the whole Japanese industry just like that isn't the smartest thing to do when you've spent over 4 years on a title that's not really all that unique.
He's saying on his twitter feed that he apologized... when it's obvious on that very same feed that he wasn't remotely sorry for saying it a second time at least and in fact tried to score a few more points making even more jokes about the whole thing immediately after.
That is until it was him being publicly ridiculed, now suddenly he has remorse and has expressed it multiple times. It's just not fair of us to say anything without the full context surrounding the thing he chose to repeat on twitter. He keeps making snide jokes and blaming other people for being so mean instead of, you know, actually sounding like he regrets being a dick to someone.
What's funny is when I saw him cry accepting his award last night I thought he seemed genuinely moved and expected him to be a little humbled and sincere on twitter after. Instead he invited everyone to suck his dick. Boy did I misjudge that one.
That is until it was him being publicly ridiculed, now suddenly he has remorse and has expressed it multiple times. It's just not fair of us to say anything without the full context surrounding the thing he chose to repeat on twitter. He keeps making snide jokes and blaming other people for being so mean instead of, you know, actually sounding like he regrets being a dick to someone.
What's funny is when I saw him cry accepting his award last night I thought he seemed genuinely moved and expected him to be a little humbled and sincere on twitter after. Instead he invited everyone to suck his dick. Boy did I misjudge that one.
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