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Halo |OT8| A Salt on the Control Room

GhaleonEB

Member
Edited out of the last page, didn't want to park it at the end of the post and leave it in a quote (thanks though, Der Flatulator).

I'll do this in three posts, spread over the course of the day. The first will be just the basic, core mechanics, which think is most important. The next will be more granular, looking at specific new things - armor abilities, game systems, map setups. The last will be about how I think it all comes together.

That also means these three posts will start very positive and become more critical. But at the outset, I want to make this clear: Halo 4 is a better game than Reach. It immediately plays better, and it's simply more fun. It's also got a LOT more going on, which means there's more stuff that can either work, or cause problems. And some changes will push the gameplay in ways I think will be problematic down the road. But more on that later.

The usual caveat that this was an unfinished game set up for public exhibition played under often less than ideal circumstances. But I got in enough games - a half dozen or so - that I think I have a feel for Halo 4.


Movement

The first thing I did when the game started was strafe, as player weight/inertia remains one of the biggest problems in Reach. It's largely removed from the game; I'll need to go back to past Halo games to compare, but it felt comparable to Halo 3. I could move where I wanted to move with enough responsiveness to survive situations. Night and day difference with Reach. Jumps and base speed also feel similar to Halo 3, so if you thought that game was too slow, you'll feel that way about the base speed here. But again, coming from Reach, the improvement was immediate.

And yet...it still felt pretty slow, at first. I started clumping around the level and was surprised at how different it was from what I was expecting after seeing videos. But after a few games, I stopped thinking about it; I guess I adapted. The gunplay is so immediate and movement responsive enough that I never felt like I died because my movement options were restricted. That, right there, makes this a better game than Reach.


"Does it feel like Halo?"

I mentioned this briefly the other day, but no. But not in the way the question is usually asked. Halo 4 "feels" entirely unique to the series, in that there's been a great emphasis on making the player feel like they are inhabiting a hulking suit of armor. Everything from the sound design to subtle HUD shifts when you move to the way the screen bobs a bit as you sprint emphasize that you're a dude (or dudette, I think) in a suit in a way the rest of the series has not.

What it does successfully is make you feel heavy and massive, without actually slowing you down; you feel like an agile tank. Now, this actually took some getting used to, because I had a hard time separating what the audio/visual inputs were telling me from what the gameplay was. I realize that might sound confusing, but you move as agile as in Halo 3, but feel much heavier than in Reach.

I think the game achieves through less intrusive ways what Reach was going for; rather than have weight slow us down and limit movement, they've found other ways to convey it. The audio is a big part of it, and I'll over that in the next post.


Golden Tripod

I picked the Battle Rifle for my first load out, and stuck with it for a while. It feels good to use, and while it may just be my perception of it playing for the first time at a public event, the spread feels a bit less than Halo 3. I felt like I was headshotting folks at somewhat longer range than in Halo 3, with all shots landing. Very solid mid to close range gun.

But I switched to the DMR when I could. I'm not sure if it's because it was more effective, or because it sounds like a goddamn hand canon (probably the latter), but I just found it more fun to use. On the first map I played (Forerunner aesthetic, Haven?) it proved an advantage down the long sight lines.

I toyed with a few other weapons. On the new map, in between Gauss Hog deaths, I picked up a lucky nearby ordnance drop. I thought it was the Promethean Light Rifle. As the Warthog drove by I scoped in real quick on the driver and blew the whole thing sky high, landing a double kill. I see people have since figured out what that is. I have no idea how it's balanced, but sure was a surprising result.

The pistol feels like Halo 3's, but only a touch more accurate as Reach's. I stripped a lot of shields with it, but am pretty sure I never landed a headshot. It seems to serve the same role as the pistol did in Halo 3: it was tuned so the CTF carrier has something to use, sort of like the VIP mode in Halo 3. It won't be something people select for MP. I forgot to try the Assault Rifle. Sorry, Dax.

I only got a few melee smacks in, but I didn't whiff the way I still manage to with Reach. I can't put my finger on why, but as others have observed there's a definite emphasis on gunplay in Halo 4; melee combat was more rare than in Reach, despite everyone having sprint. I'll need more time with the game to figure out what's driving it, but Halo 4 is does emphasize gunplay more than Reach.

With each new Halo game, there's an adjustment period for grenade throwing, since the arc gets fiddled with each game. I didn't have to adjust this time around; I was just parking grenades where I wanted them to go. I think that means they throw similar to Reach, since that's what I'm used to.

Plasma grenades are still plasma grenades, and seem to take just a touch longer to blow than in Reach. That is a good thing. Frags are returned to their role in Halo 3: strip shields. I got tagged by them a few times when I had a couple shots on me, and they just took my shields down rather than killing me instantly. Far fewer grenade deaths (and also, fewer grenades piling up, since players don't seem to drop them unless you have that perk selected).

I had one odd moment with a frag grenade. I put two shots with the DMR on someone at close range, and then bounced a grenade down at his feet while stepping back around a corner. As the frag went off, I come back for the kill and find he's like, 15 feet up in the air; I think he did an accidental grenade jump. I land another couple shots but he finishes me since his head is out of my range. I suspect people will grenade jump like crazy in this game.



Short version: I think 343 more or less nailed the core gameplay. Certainly, they've nailed it in ways Reach simply didn't. Aside from the pistol - which seems to have been designed as something to give the flag carrier - I never missed shots when I thought I should have hit them. I never died and then cursed my limited mobility. I didn't take two shots and despair as a frag grenade tinked around the corner. The audio (more on that later) and stuff they're doing with HUD and overall emphasis on the armor you inhabit means it all feels quite different from the previous games, but the core is quite familiar.

It doesn't feel like Halo, but it plays like it.
 

Talents

Banned
It is not in the PAX build, and I'm going to speculate it's not in the game at all.

GLEE-MR-SCHUE-ANGRY.gif
 

DopeyFish

Not bitter, just unsweetened
2 things:

1. What's up with no explosion after scoring?

2. Not liking how the Grav. Hammer sounds now.

I think because they are moving away from round based play

I assume there may be a classic variant of grifball with rounds but eh

Explosion without rounds can lead to griefing with rear D picking up the ball just after the score
 
They're nice impressions Ghal. They arrived on the heels of me reacting to that CTF video on the last page...

I can't stand what they're doing with the text and now fear that the announcer is playing into that whole "always be rewarded" philosophy.
Instead, I believe it is the act of doing it and winning that's the true reward, not the bloody overeager positivity systems at work.
 
I'd hate to pour salt this early on a lovely Sunday morning but...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dJOhe_uT0i4

"We've been working closely with the Griffball teams..."
-Kevin Franklin

You should have asked any team of four that's ever played Team Objective about CTF and if there should AT LEAST be the option to play traditional CTF where the flag can be dropped and picked up, just as in previous installments of the storied Halo franchise.

Maaaan where is the explosion? And the hammer sounds like a chunk of metal hitting the floor hahahaha
 

Blueblur1

Member
I had one odd moment with a frag grenade. I put two shots with the DMR on someone at close range, and then bounced a grenade down at his feet while stepping back around a corner. As the frag went off, I come back for the kill and find he's like, 15 feet up in the air; I think he did an accidental grenade jump. I land another couple shots but he finishes me since his head is out of my range. I suspect people will grenade jump like crazy in this game.

Based on that anecdote, it sounds like grenade damage does not bleedthrough shields and affect player health. Were you able to observe if that is true?
 

Blueblur1

Member
They're nice impressions Ghal. They arrived on the heels of me reacting to that CTF video on the last page...

I can't stand what they're doing with the text and now fear that the announcer is playing into that whole "always be rewarded" philosophy.
Instead, I believe it is the act of doing it and winning that's the true reward, not the bloody overeager positivity systems at work.

Yeah, it's ridiculous. There's one point in that last CTF video where 4 text pop-ups appear on-screen in succession. It's just way too much.
 

IHaveIce

Banned
No way. It's a near-perfect match for the Promethean Knight concept art.

It's also clearly mechanical and not an armor and oversized human could wear. Actual Promethean were described as massive, with limbs the size of tree trunks... which, I guess this thing kind of does, but that description should imply mass, not length. This thing is a robot skeleton. Heh.

Straightened the picture, because why not:

uS9kF.jpg


I like this design SO MUCH, it bums me out. The final Prom Bot designs are the main reason I can't force myself to get excited about playing the game. I don't want to spend a whole game looking at them and their stupid robot puppies.
They should release a picture of the old design doing the stupid skull thing, so I could stop liking it, too.

damn this version of the Knight looks much better.
hope something like this is in, a bigger menacing Knight.
 
They're nice impressions Ghal. They arrived on the heels of me reacting to that CTF video on the last page...

I can't stand what they're doing with the text and now fear that the announcer is playing into that whole "always be rewarded" philosophy.
Instead, I believe it is the act of doing it and winning that's the true reward, not the bloody overeager positivity systems at work.

Is your belief diminished in any way as a result of this? To me, it seems as though people who enjoy winning will still enjoy winning, but now there are just hooks for more people to enjoy the game. If they added those things in to give players the same enjoyment you get from your reward, is it really a bad thing?
 

GhaleonEB

Member
Based on that anecdote, it sounds like grenade damage does not bleedthrough shields and affect player health. Were you able to observe if that is true?

I think it does, as I did die to some when I had shields - but only when they were low. I'm not sure how it was in Halo 3, but if I had to guess about Halo 4, I'd say frag grenades simply do more damage to shields than to the underlying health. Sort of like how plasma weapons strip shields faster than health and UNSC weapons kill faster than they take shields down. They'll still kill you if you have low shields, but you're not going to take a couple rounds and then die to a frag.
 
Is your belief diminished in any way as a result of this? To me, it seems as though people who enjoy winning will still enjoy winning, but now there are just hooks for more people to enjoy the game. If they added those things in to give players the same enjoyment you get from your reward, is it really a bad thing?
Sure, if it's cheap and manipulative. Never-mind distracting.
To me, it and similar hooks you find in social games, like Tiny Tower and Farmville, hell even Rock Band Blitz's ugly coin system are... not what I'm looking for.
 
I continue to not worry much about MP because people who play it, like it.
I continue not to worry about the movement, gunplay, grenades, and other basic mechanics because people like those in the time they spend with them (and because they look great in videos). I don't trust anyone's impressions of perks, rules, weapons, etc. after a few games. It will take weeks or months of play for that stuff to shake out.
 
Sure, if it's cheap and manipulative. Never-mind distracting.
To me, it and similar hooks you find in social games, like Tiny Tower and Farmville, hell even Rock Band Blitz's ugly coin system are... not what I'm looking for.

Sure it's not what you are looking for. You already said what you want is the satisfaction from simply winning. Is that not still there? I understand why you don't needed. I guess I just don't agree that, as a whole, it isn't needed.
 

GhaleonEB

Member
I continue not to worry about the movement, gunplay, grenades, and other basic mechanics because people like those in the time they spend with them (and because they look great in videos). I don't trust anyone's impressions of perks, rules, weapons, etc. after a few games. It will take weeks or months of play for that stuff to shake out.

Yeah, perks are simply going to take time. I can talk about the few I used, and we can kind of game out how the rest might work in concert, but they are an aspect of the game we're going to have to play for a while to get a feel for. Because the entire game was new, it was hard to tell how much they were affecting combat; I had no baseline.
 

Flipyap

Member
damn this version of the Knight looks much better.
hope something like this is in, a bigger menacing Knight.
It's such a good design (except for his silly Decepticon face, which it doesn't even need to appear menacing as hell, the three lights in the original concept art tease were actually much creepier).
I love its strange limbs and the way they're positioned in front of its face (so weird!), and the way they're connected to its body resembles the way Sentinels were constructed. It looks like it could be folded and stored in a space closet. It looks Forerunner.

Instead, we'll get Mecha Rayman.
CLGjz.png


HOW DOES SHIT LIKE THIS HAPPEN?!
 

Ramirez

Member
I continue not to worry about the movement, gunplay, grenades, and other basic mechanics because people like those in the time they spend with them (and because they look great in videos). I don't trust anyone's impressions of perks, rules, weapons, etc. after a few games. It will take weeks or months of play for that stuff to shake out.

As long as the core is right, the rest of it can be edited per playlist. Reach didn't nail any core element and I still managed to put in 4k games, I have higher hopes for 4 given all of the positive impressions.

Hyper, I don't have rose tinted glasses with H2, so I'm fine with that.
 
I wonder if 343 will use the same latin american commentator (Octavio Rojas) for Halo 4, he will have some troube speaking faster with all the new notifications in short time.
 
Though I guess that's not the case either way here, with faster than normal speed but no sprint with magical infinite ammo magnum out of nowhere.
I'm still catching up, but is this true? I thought you'd only be able to wield a magnum if you had one on you already?! This would kinda suck.

Perhaps finding the gravity hammer is a non-canon easter egg in campaign? Just a thought.
Thought the same thing.

Just saw the 10 minute ViDoc thingy. Really nice. Will 343 upload the entire panel at some point?

Edit:
I don't know if it was for gameplay or simply a stylistic choice that they changed it but I preferred thrusting when it was in first person.
Ah man, that sucks! Why would they do that? It worked just fine with evade in Reach!

These little things really start to bug me out. This was supposed to be my go to AA. Well, I'll see how it feels.
 
Changes of CTF in PAX Build:

• Auto Pick up
• excessive medal rewards system
• Waypoint over flag carrier
• Not being able to drop flag
• Rooaaaddd Triiipp (?)
• Announcer CTF shout-outs
• Big white Texts of CTF notifications
---
Griffball looks like its barely finished and doesn't have the extra content like hammer sounds & effects or ball score explosions in the PAX Build.

Please fix in final build.

Edit: Changed it, Tashi.
 

IHaveIce

Banned
It's such a good design (except for his silly Decepticon face, which it doesn't even need to appear menacing as hell, the three lights in the original concept art tease were actually much creepier).
I love its strange limbs and the way they're positioned in front of its face (so weird!), and the way they're connected to its body resembles the way Sentinels were constructed. It looks like it could be folded and stored in a space closet. It looks Forerunner.

Instead, we'll get Mecha Rayman.
CLGjz.png


HOW DOES SHIT LIKE THIS HAPPEN?!

Yep I'm with you on this one.
THe original concept art was the best I agree. But like you said, the concept version looks Forerunner while the Knight that is in the game doesn't.

I hope they don't screw up the Didact.
 

Not a Jellyfish

but I am a sheep
Just got done reading your impressions Ghal, thank you for that, it confirmed a lot for me.

I was worried with a new team if it would still play like Halo but after reading your impressions I am not worried anymore. I always knew it wasn't going to feel the same based on being a new set of hands working on it but knowing that the core gameplay is still intact is a big relief.

Same gameplay with some new fancy bells and whistles to immerse me in the armor of my spartan, I like the sound of that.
 

GhaleonEB

Member
Probably a balance decision, not really fair to get a fast strafe ability and keep your aoim while doing it.

I think that might be it. I did find it strange in practice, though. It's a really short burst - less than a second - so you swing from first to third to first person very rapidly. I'd rather they simply make it so you can't shoot while using the thrust pack.

I still had fun with it, though. The first time I jumped toward a ledge too far away and used the thrust pack to close the distance, I might have let out an involuntary hoot.
 

op_ivy

Fallen Xbot (cannot continue gaining levels in this class)
Just noticed you can see the unicorn helmet in use at about 2:35 in that video. Good vid overall from Nexy, too.

Edit: at 4:40 you can see how somebody else camoing effects his radar and how nexy can't see him using promethean vision while he's camo'd.

nice heads up! looks like the radar jammer is different, as i think you can still spot movement, red dots, vs the jamming, blue dots. so now the jamming is more of a distraction then a true jammer. thank god
 

Droid

Member
I think that might be it. I did find it strange in practice, though. It's a really short burst - less than a second - so you swing from first to third to first person very rapidly. I'd rather they simply make it so you can't shoot while using the thrust pack.

I still had fun with it, though. The first time I jumped toward a ledge too far away and used the thrust pack to close the distance, I might have let out an involuntary hoot.

In the E3 build your gun disappeared for a second and the screen blurred and flashed white when you did it in first person. It seemed to work just fine, the addition of 3rd person is very unnecessary.
 
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