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Halo |OT8| A Salt on the Control Room

kylej

Banned
How does any of the above change what is OWED, or what is OBLIGED?

If you could send me a checklist of everything that is required by law to be given to the video game consumer in order to adequately sell a product, and also keep explaining how consumer satisfaction has no bearing on product performance, and also explain how value per dollar is static across all people everywhere regardless of product or marketing, and also explain how grassroots and community driven marketing is irrelevant, please let me know.

I'd like to read more about business from someone who completely ignores the millions of minute differences, intricacies, and expectations of every industry in the world in favor of using a universal - arbitrary - benchmark of completeness for every product everywhere. You should start a business journal.
 

Tashi

343i Lead Esports Producer
Btw, Tashi, I don't know if Duncan told you yet but we recorded a video podcast while waiting in line to play earlier today. Got some other GAFfers in the video as well as game footage to back it up so the next podcast release'll be awesome.

Honestly, I was worried you guys were way too busy to do anything for the podcast.

I'm so happy now! Thank you guys! <3<3
 
There is ALOT of "Impostering" (as bungie put it) In Halo 4 so far

Im not complaining, its just very noticeable, watching uncut direct feed gameplay it shows its head alot

reminds me of the caps I took from UNSC weapon vid



Is this something that will be optimized, altered, or otherwise improved?
Not really sure how this stuff works

edit: bottom of page, motherf'er

What am I missing in that picture with the shotgun?
 

nillapuddin

Member
What am I missing in that picture with the shotgun?

the details in the armor pop into view when he gets that inch closer

In Halo Reach its can be obvious if you look in the (wrong) places, or from extreme distance

example
imposter.jpg
 
I still dont get the CTF changes. Unless you really know what your doing the entire team is going to spam grenades and take out the opposing flag carrier resulting in nobody being able to score. Especially in matchmaking.

Oddball can be extremely frustrating, imagine 2 really pro players just playing catch and getting to an early lead. There is no counter balance for that.
 

Computron

Member
@NillaPuddin

LOD ratios/groups can be fine-tuned really late into development, they are designed to be flexible.
A lot of other engines have this feature. Most likely the armor is all part of one LOD Group that has been assigned a really low ratio. (Perhaps on accident)

The falcon picture you posted is a special case.
It's part of a background aerial dogfight, your not supposed to be anywhere near it.
It won't switch to an actaul model even if you are, unlike in most situations.
 

Brolic Gaoler

formerly Alienshogun
Someone needs to photoshop ellis on some stools (the one of him laying down in this exact pose) directly to the left of Heckfu so they are facing eachother, then make it a HaloGAF banner.
 
the details in the armor pop into view when he gets that inch closer

In Halo Reach its can be obvious if you look in the (wrong) places, or from extreme distance

example

Ah. Only one of the pictures is working for me for some reason.

Looking at them now, and from what I saw in Wu's Halo 4 video, this doesn't seem to be the Imposter thing at work(if that's even in Halo 4 still. They could've opted to just use LOD models for all we know), because the models are staying the same, it's just the textures that are freaking out.

It actually looks like an issue with the way they have their primary/second colors set up, and the masks they're using. Almost like the masks are being reset, or not loading properly. It is strange, but it most definitely looks like a bug rather than a fault in LOD/Imposter system.


EDIT: The Falcon isn't an LOD model, it's actually meant to be like that, since you aren't supposed to be that close to it.

DOUBLE EDIT: Computron beat me to that. But yeah.
 
I just noticed that this entire PAX weekend Woorloog hasn't made a single post in here. When we have something to actually talk about.

and he's STILL the #1 poster in this thread by a wide margin
KuGsj.gif
 
I was thinking instead, swapping the ghost for Heckfu:

BAIL OUT.gif

Weird, I was actually thinking the exact same thing.

EDIT: Just wondering, though; why the fuck does Chief find it necessary to bail out like that? He's in the middle of a desert. It doesn't even look like anyone's near him, the guy could just roll out of it or something.

I just noticed that this entire PAX weekend Woorloog hasn't made a single post in here. When we have something to actually talk about.

and he's STILL the #1 poster in this thread by a wide margin
KuGsj.gif

Now that you've acknowledged him by name he's contractually obligated to quote you.
 
K

kittens

Unconfirmed Member
I just noticed that this entire PAX weekend Woorloog hasn't made a single post in here. When we have something to actually talk about.

and he's STILL the #1 poster in this thread by a wide margin
KuGsj.gif
He only seems to post here when he's bored or depressed. Which I sympathize with, but it results in him getting pretty overwhelming pretty quick.

Or maybe he's just left speechless with joy and/or disgust, hah.
 

nillapuddin

Member
@NillaPuddin

LOD ratios/groups can be fine-tuned really late into development, they are designed to be flexible.
A lot of other engines have this feature. Most likely the armor is all part of one LOD Group that has been assigned a really low ratio (On accident maybe)

The falcon picture you posted is a special case.
It's part of a background aerial dogfight, your not supposed to be anywhere near it.
It wont switch to an actaul model even if you are, unlike in most situations.

Yeah i mean I know that one is hyperbolic, just showing an extreme example cause I wasnt sure the armor pop was clear enough

So you expect the 'armor' to take a larger distance to render at full fidelity than it is now?
But closer than other things, Hogs etc?

edit: I see you saying that is intentionally a rough model.
Id find a quick pic because I experience it all the time in forge, but google didnt help me soon enough
 

GhaleonEB

Member
So, in the first post I just talked about the core gameplay. This is basically, I thought I'd go over the new stuffz and how it worked out.

Armor Abilities and Mods

One of the first things I did was build a custom load out based on what I knew about how I liked to play: fast. So that load out had the Thruster Pack for AA, Mobility for one perk, and Agility (I think? it's the reload/weapon swap speed boost) for the other.

I had intended at the outset to experiment, but instead I decided I liked the load out and went with it for nearly all my games. So that sorta limits what I can cover. Whoops. :lol

Finding a play style that clicks with you is what 343 is trying to do with the customization suite, so I suppose that meant it worked.

The Thruster Pack is pretty fun to use, and more limited than I thought it would be; that's a good thing. Firing a ~1 second burst you move about as far as a single roll of Evade sends you in Reach, after which there's a long cool down. No zigging and zagging back and forth, and since you don't roll into a ball to do it, you remain a sizable target while moving as well. So on those counts it clips the biggest problems with Evade.

Over the course of several games I used it in a few ways. 1) A sudden, rapid strafe during shootouts to throw the other player off, and was successful a few times at finishing players as a result. 2) Leaping to platforms or over gaps I couldn't clear with a simple jump; this feels pretty great. 3) As a way to escape encounters - just zipping around a corner. And finally, to get four kills with the sword in a single game by watching the radar, seeing them get close, and stepping around the corner and boosting up to their face, and stabbing them in it.

Aside from boosting over chasms, it plays a similar role as Evade does, but you have to be much more selective in how to use it. So it avoids some of the problems that Evade created, but not all of them.

The 3rd person zoom out / zoom in is too rapid. For an ability that lasts ~2 seconds from start to finish, a 3rd person view is needlessly disorienting. It would be better to keep it in 3rd person and prevent us from shooting, as when sprinting.

I used the Mobility armor mod the entire time as well. Unlimited sprint, and it did prove a large advantage at times; when escaping fights, when chasing down ordnance or chasing other players whose sprint will run out. I found it most useful for regrouping with my team. On Adrift (the human themed small map, I think?) we were trying to work closely as a squad, so I always looked to regroup with them. With Mobility that generally took ~10 seconds, even from the other side of the map.

I liked being able to sprint the entire time, but I'm not sure how balanced it is; I felt it tipped too many situations to my advantage. It certainly helped get me back into the action very quickly.

You do get slowed down when sprinting and taking fire; during my sword spree, I had to use the Thruster Pack because if you sprint at someone, and they're shooting you, you're not going to close the gap. This really mitigates the problem with sprint/sword.

The Agility (I think?) mod sped up reloading and weapon swapping - a LOT. It felt like reload time was cut down by 50-75%. It was so fast that in the build we played, the animation was faster than the reloading sounds: I'd reload and start shooting, and the snick-snick reload sounds would still be finishing up. I assume this is still being worked on.

It cut down time to a ~1 second break between ammo clips. It was especially advantageous for long range shootouts; the other player would pause to reload and I'd be firing well before they did. I ran into a few situations where I drained my primary and was able to pull out the secondary with barely a break in firing cadence.

Again, it definitely helped push an advantage my way in several encounters. The pitch with armor mods has been that 1) they push you toward your preferred style of play, but 2) are not an absolute advantage and 3) help to self-balance by virtue of forgoing other mods for the ones you select. I didn't tinker too much, but I did settle into a very rapid play style using this combination. And it definitely helped me come out ahead of several firefights. I can't speak to most of the other stuff, but I thought they were as fun as they are worrying.

Now, take those kind of moments, and multiply them for everyone, and you can get a feel for how they will probably work. In every game, a fight or two will be nudged your way because of an option you picked at spawn. And everyone will likely have that happen, at least a couple of times, which will be enough to make them feel rewarded for unlocking their mod and using it, but not overpowering the match.

Maybe the fun will rule the day and all the hand wringing will be for naught, but I still came away from many fights feeling almost apologetic. Sorry dude, I picked the right mod! For that moment, anyway. They were not overpowering, but I'm still uncomfortable with this line having been crossed. Time will tell.​


The new UI

Halo 4 throws a LOT of new information at you. Others have noticed this from the videos, but it really sinks in when you play. Many new context-specific waypoint markers, new details on the radar, tons of new medals (the medals themselves didn't pop in our build), text in the middle of the screen, and a lot more chatter from the announcer.

In a game of Regicide the announcer was not only telling me about specific events, but telling me the leader was...still leading. Sometimes that he was leading by even more than in the last time I was told he was leading. (Which is another way to tell me I'm losing by even more.)

When combined with the larger share of medals that get announced rather than simply pop, it was too much chatter. Medals like Headcase and Comeback Kill (which I think means you started a fight with less health than your opponent, but won) get announced. But so do things like Distraction, which is a really...odd medal. I got it many times, simply by getting shot at. Often I'd start to get shot at, turn around, and see someone on my team kill the guy. And then I'd get a medal for it, the dude yelling "Distraction!", as if trying to distract me.

I dubbed it the Pinata medal: guys will get medals and points for just getting shot now.

Against this increase in visual and audio chatter comes greater clarity in what waypoint markers mean. One example is in the flag UI. Rather than show a waypoint for the flag, and show a meter for how long it takes to return it, and then flash the flag meter as it's close they just...put a timer on the flag icon so we know how long it takes to reset. It's an elegant solution that cuts down on some of the visuals required to convey information. There were several other such touches that helped things read faster, but that's the one I can remember right now.

The menus are different, but clear and quick and work well.

But all in all, there's a LOT more going on in the game, with all the new text and indicators. And those things kind of collide with...​


Sound Design

I haven't seen a video that yet does justice to what was cranked into my skull during the games. Hand canon is an appropriate term for most UNSC weapon sounds - they really have impact. Part of the feeling of being an agile tank comes from the sound design and implementation. When you melee or reload, you often hear your suit rustling as you do. Footsteps are heavier - clump clump clump - and melee blows hit harder.

All that is good. But all of the sound effects also sound...processed. Like every sound went through the same sci-fi filter and came out altered in the same way; there's a more narrow range that all the various audio effects span. Gunfire and movement and weapon fire and vehicles all have this same dulled sound to them on the edges that I am struggling to verbalize, but it makes most effects sound artificial. I hear a gun shot, and think - wow, someone came up with a neat effect for that gun, rather than, that gun sounds awesome. Some weapons, especially the Forerunner weapons, really lack punch. Think Halo 2 SMG.

More troubling, there's a lot more sound going on. So our suit rustles and our foot steps are clump clumping more loudly - and so does everyone else. So the hand canons are cannoning and there's thump thump footsteps everywhere and rustling and explosions and the announcer won't be quiet for a moment ("Distraction! Ordinance Ready! The Enemy Has Your Flag and You Should Go and Kill the Guy That Picked It Up! Distraction!") and it becomes a lot harder to pick up the sound of a grenade bouncing, or a plasma landing, or a guy walking up behind you. The audio landscape is now as cluttered as all the new UI elements.

So between the impact and layers to the sound design, atop all the new UI (new game type icons and way points, ordinance, new medals, text in middle of screen), I found the game to be cranking out information overload at times. No one individual element was too much; the text in the middle of the screen never bothered me, the ordnance markers were clear, and so on. But in total, it was just too much. Some elements need to be dialed back. Halo was combat evolved; at times, Halo 4 feels like combat, cluttered.​

Again, the core game is fantastic. But I felt at times like it was sagging a bit under too many layers atop it, like a delicious moist cake with too much frosting and toppings. The frosting is tasty and the toppings sweet, but you can have too much.
 
Nice Ghaleon, thanks for the analysis.

The 3rd person zoom out / zoom in is too rapid. For an ability that lasts ~2 seconds from start to finish, a 3rd person view is needlessly disorienting. It would be better to keep it in 3rd (1st?) person and prevent us from shooting, as when sprinting.

This is what I was worried about. It used to be in first person and I thought it made a lot more sense. 3rd person is just too busy and disorienting from what I've seen.
 

Ramirez

Member

Didn't Kynan level design on the Prime games? *fap*

but at the end of the day with no ranks, everyone a winner regardless.

https://p.twimg.com/A11oNMPCUAA7XNm.jpg[/IM][/QUOTE]

[quote="Tashi, post: 41697372"][IMG]http://i.imgur.com/Fat2S.jpg[IMG]

[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/0SgVC.jpg[/IM]

[b]You know what to do HaloGAF[/b][/QUOTE]

[IMG]http://i.minus.com/ibgbkiZdg8JyNp.gif
 

GhaleonEB

Member
Just added one thing, and a concluding analogy:

You do get slowed down when sprinting and taking fire; during my sword spree, I had to use the Thruster Pack because if you sprint at someone, and they're shooting you, you're not going to close the gap. This really mitigates the problem with sprint/sword.​

One of the reasons I picked Mobility and went sword hunting was to test the unlimited sprint/sword combo. I got exactly one kill with it, and died a few times trying. If you're taking fire while sprinting - that dude is backing up shooting you - you'll slow down to what feels like almost normal speed, and they can land a headshot first.

My worries about unlimited sprint with sword more or less evaporated. You can still abuse sword/thruster pack, but not nearly to the same degree as evade thanks to the single use, short range, long cool down effect (and the disorienting zoom to 3rd person). It will be less common and more circumstantial.
 
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