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jeff_rigby
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(09-03-2012, 10:20 AM)
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Originally Posted by wizzbang

Who is Jeff Rigby? Please tell me I'm wrong and being paranoid for nothing. Changing the XMB would be a travesty.

For sure the browser is getting more features like HTML5 <video>, SVG, accelerated Composition using tiles, WebGL and Playready DRM. The XMB/desktop is to use WebMAF (Mozilla Application Framework) for the HTML5 apps that are coming. MAF provides a inter-process communication standard and more for apps.

As to the XMB changing, I don't know, it's already using OpenVG and XML which will be used by ATSC 2.0 and are used by the current un-accelerated browser. What bothers me is Netflix increasing in size to 25 megs. EDIT: ATSC 2.0 will use XHTML which is a stricter version of HTML 4.01 that uses XML for rendering, the PS3 XMB uses XML via OpenVG.

Netflix started at 21 megs in 2010 and was a package that contained it's own QT toolkit and Javascript browser as well as we think CairoFB and a player with hooks for DRM. Over more than a year at several PS3 firmware upgrades, Netflix became smaller and smaller as well as faster at screen draws. The speculation was as Sony implemented a HTML5 stack in the PS3 to support HTML5 apps, Netflix used the PS3 support libraries rather than the ones in the first 21 meg Netflix. Netflix dropped to 16 megs at one point. It is now up to 25 megs as is the YouTube app. Vudu on the other hand has stayed the same 12 megs and in Credits uses the Sony Broadcasting Engine and FFmpeg. <androvsky, that's where I saw it.>

I suspect that the HTML5 stack in the PS3 is going to undergo a significant change when the new browser features are implemented. Accelerated Cairo eGL , SVG, Tiling and WebGL could explain this. It's possible that to be on the safe side the thrid party browser applications are once again mostly self contained in preparation for the major changes that are coming.

Another coming feature is WebCL which are links to OpenCL in the javascript engine. I don't know when those will be implemented but the Open Standard Compute Language is cross platform and is the easiest way to use the Cell processor. AR is coming this Sept and I'd want to use OpenCL for that. In addition, OpenCL can be used for voice and gesture recognition which I think will soon be supported on Vita and PS3.

The ATSC 2.0 US standard with much of it the same as hbbtv (DVB EU standard with hbtv and using Java for apps while ATSC 2.0 uses Xhtml for apps) is being authorized from 2 months ago with Non-Realtime-Transmission till 1st quarter 2013 with full "candidate" status. The interactive part of it uses web standards. I expect software to support this is coming to the PS3 soon. The PS3 already supports 1080P, 3-D and h.264 which are a part of ATSC 2.0. (explains Sony sticking to standards rather than to support my 3-D DLP TV with something that is not going to be supported with ATSC 2.0)

Some form of external TV Tuner support is coming for the PS3, possibly Nasne or other Sony network connected platforms with internal tuners or possibly something like the HD Home run network connected tuner mentioned as supported by the Xbox 361 in the leaked Xbox 720 powerpoint. This will provide support for unscrambled OTA or Cable but Cable in the US is mostly scrambled. That creates a need for a HDMI pass-thru design between the cable box and the TV to provide ATSC 2.0 features.

The Xbox 361 design incorporates HDMI pass-thru and I suspect the PS3 4000 chassis supports the same. Apparently I'm the only one who thinks this as the Technoblog pictures do not have a HDMI-IN port. ( I think they are fake.)

The XMB style could retain much of the current look and feel but "rumors" have the PS4 menu structure changing. I suspect some changes to support new features. To this point the XMB has been fixed in stone but it's built with a descriptive language (XML) that allows for easy change, just change the XML script describing the XMB.

Oh, Sony and Microsoft were part of the groups setting the ATSC 2.0 standards or key parts of them. In the late 90's there are reports of them working together to set multi-media standards. As seen in the leaked Xbox 720 powerpoint. XTV is a way both could "Capture the Living room" and I believe is why the PS3 was "overdesigned" from day one if only a game console. This is the end game, what's coming soon and in hindsight explains Standards, PS Suite on again off again, few PS3 XMB applications (No Yahoo apps when lower powered TVs and Blu-ray players had them two years ago), OpenMax 1.2 delayed from 2008 till late 2011 when the issues with OpenMax and Memory allocation (Gstreamer-openmax) were known in 2006. Also IBM developed a OpenCL library for Cell in 2008. OpenCL, WebCL, Webkit APIs, OpenVG, ATSC 2.0, OpenGLES, Cairo and more needed to be developed to open standards that would support the visions of standards groups in the late 90's.

Connected Television from a broadcasters perspective.



1) microsoft-sony.com
2) digitimes PS4 rumor (Must be a PS3 that was confused with a PS4)
3) Leaked Xbox 720 powerpoint document from 9/2010 which has the Xbox 361 coming this 2012 season. IF Oban 12/2011 then 9/2010 was after it was in the pipeline to be produced.
4) This patent and the timing in both filing and publishing XTV game support.
5) Both ps3 and Xbox 360 refresh must have a price reduction built in to allow a price reduction when the PS4 and Xbox 720 are released. This is already possible for the Xbox 360 but the PS3 would NEED a massive redesign to put both CPU and GPU on the same silicon.
6) Sony 2010 1PPU4SPU patent
7) Elizabeth Gerhard's Projects (IBM employee) and an International project involving the Xbox 360 @ 32nm and NO design work for a PS3 refresh at 32nm
8) Oban = large blank Japanese Coin => Is Oban for both the PS3 and Xbox 361 (Microsoft making the chip for Sony using 1PPU3SPU CPU packages instead of just PPUs )
9) Both having browsers at the same time for the first time ever and both have a refresh at the same time for the first time ever
10) Sony depth camera patent (Timing, 9/2011 & again 2/2012)
11) Khronos Openmax 1.2 (Supports Gstreamer-openmax and camera, second Khronos Pdf mentioning Augmented Reality starting Sept 2012 leveraging the browser libraries
12) ATSC 2.0 *-* starts May 2012 thru 1st quarter 2013. *-* h.265 published for use Jan 2013. *-* Sony Nasne *-* RVU support for the PS3 announced by Verizon and Direct TV
13) Energy Star third tier game console voluntary requirements
14) Information on Next generation game console technology
Last edited by jeff_rigby; 09-24-2012 at 09:52 AM.