Baloonatic
Member
Got this when I got my Wii U, I'll hold off on playing it until that patch I think. Sounds great though.
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Digital Foundry: Trine 2 (PS3/360/PC/Wii U) [Up: Mid-Dec patch for gamma bug]
- Thread starter Nirolak
- Start date
zomgbbqftw
Banned
Why can't all developers be like this!
Glad the port turned out so well. It was a beautiful game on the ps360, so it's great that it looks better on the Wii-U.
It's not a CPU heavy game. If it were, it likely would have ported just as bad as the other games, regardless of effort.
It's not a CPU heavy game. If it were, it likely would have ported just as bad as the other games, regardless of effort.
If only they were all like frozenbyte
grimshawish
Banned
Surely all the confused little lambs will be asking how this is possible on a system with half the power of a 360?
Was just thinking this. They speak really openly and just seem to want to get on with things and keep their customers well informed.
I'm not normally bothered by 30fps, but i find it really noticeable here. The arrows look terrible when you fire them. It's like a slideshow.
I just like playing games in bed though, so i really don't care.
Hey guys, Joel from Frozenbyte here. I think I'll just repost my comment to the DF article:
Worth of note is that the game actually has a dynamic resolution scaling feature on PS3 and Xbox 360 to keep a steady 30 frames per second. This shows in some levels (e.g. the 11th level Icewarden Keep has a scene in the beginning where this is somewhat visible, if I remember right). On Wii U the resolution is 720p solid.
Just to be clear, we will indeed be updating the "washed out" look. The observation about gamma level is correct, as there was a bug in the game that applied excessive gamma to the final output. It went unnoticed until release but we have now fixed it. So the game will soon look even better (similar in colour to the other versions). We're estimating a mid-December release for the update, give or take a few days, and it will also include support for Wii U Pro Controller, Voice Chat, some languages, and some minor things.
--
The above is what I've been hinting at in the mid-December update.
Other tidbits:
- The engine is our own indeed, we spent the year 2010 rewriting it from scratch almost (also the original Trine 1 engine is our own, although that's based on the Shadowgrounds engine(s) from 2001-2007)
- We did spend some time optimizing the game for Wii U, and it did make a nice impact (hard to say how this compares to other developers' work - but of course we were lucky in the sense that the game itself was more or less done, so we had more time to focus on making sure it was also running well)
- The multiplayer "party mode" we've hinted at in some early interviews etc is probably not happening. Mid-way development we ditched it and focused on the new Dwarven Caverns exclusive level instead (which is great - sadly it's a level that you can unlock only by playing the game to completion, so we haven't heard much feedback on it).
- Yes there is online co-op (3 players max). It should work well, not a lot of feedback on it yet but haven't heard much negative. It's possible that there's some kind of a bug that ends the game session upon disconnect, but it could also be that some people are misinterpreting it a bit (if you play as host, and disconnect, then the game will end for all players, but if a client disconnects, it should not end the game for the others - unless there's a bug, of course).
- Also local co-op for up to 3 players, using one GamePad and other players use Remote + Nunchuks (not quite ideal but works okayish). See below for Wii U Pro Controller.
- The mid-December update will also include Wii U Pro Controller support, Voice Chat, new languages (BR-PT, some others possibly), and some minor things.
Anyhow thanks a lot, we appreciate the feedback and thoughts.
-Joel, Frozenbyte team, developers of Trine 2: Director's Cut
Worth of note is that the game actually has a dynamic resolution scaling feature on PS3 and Xbox 360 to keep a steady 30 frames per second. This shows in some levels (e.g. the 11th level Icewarden Keep has a scene in the beginning where this is somewhat visible, if I remember right). On Wii U the resolution is 720p solid.
Just to be clear, we will indeed be updating the "washed out" look. The observation about gamma level is correct, as there was a bug in the game that applied excessive gamma to the final output. It went unnoticed until release but we have now fixed it. So the game will soon look even better (similar in colour to the other versions). We're estimating a mid-December release for the update, give or take a few days, and it will also include support for Wii U Pro Controller, Voice Chat, some languages, and some minor things.
--
The above is what I've been hinting at in the mid-December update.
Other tidbits:
- The engine is our own indeed, we spent the year 2010 rewriting it from scratch almost (also the original Trine 1 engine is our own, although that's based on the Shadowgrounds engine(s) from 2001-2007)
- We did spend some time optimizing the game for Wii U, and it did make a nice impact (hard to say how this compares to other developers' work - but of course we were lucky in the sense that the game itself was more or less done, so we had more time to focus on making sure it was also running well)
- The multiplayer "party mode" we've hinted at in some early interviews etc is probably not happening. Mid-way development we ditched it and focused on the new Dwarven Caverns exclusive level instead (which is great - sadly it's a level that you can unlock only by playing the game to completion, so we haven't heard much feedback on it).
- Yes there is online co-op (3 players max). It should work well, not a lot of feedback on it yet but haven't heard much negative. It's possible that there's some kind of a bug that ends the game session upon disconnect, but it could also be that some people are misinterpreting it a bit (if you play as host, and disconnect, then the game will end for all players, but if a client disconnects, it should not end the game for the others - unless there's a bug, of course).
- Also local co-op for up to 3 players, using one GamePad and other players use Remote + Nunchuks (not quite ideal but works okayish). See below for Wii U Pro Controller.
- The mid-December update will also include Wii U Pro Controller support, Voice Chat, new languages (BR-PT, some others possibly), and some minor things.
Anyhow thanks a lot, we appreciate the feedback and thoughts.
This applies to the North American version. If you have an Asian console, please buy the European version instead (it's fixed there - or rather, the buttons work, even if they are not reversed properly). If you are suffering from this on an Asian console with the NA version, please do get in touch and we can see what to do (we're a bit swamped at the moment though).
-Joel, Frozenbyte team, developers of Trine 2: Director's Cut
Lol fuck it. I'll get both, but Wii U one first
Yeah, it's worth it. The slower pace of the game compared to other platformers means the framerate doesn't ruin the experiance or anything. And it does look gorgeous.
DragonSworne
Banned
On the subject of voice chat: Can the gamepad mic be used or is a headset required?
Thanks for the update Joel!
Thanks for the update Joel!
Kai Dracon
Writing a dinosaur space opera symphony
Is the game really that CPU light, given it's based all around physics?
Anyway, glad to see how well the port turned out. I'd held off on playing Trine 2 until Wii U for the extra content and pad play. Been playing for two days now, really impressed. The art direction is ridiculous and curb stomps so many western fantasy themed games.
Anyway, glad to see how well the port turned out. I'd held off on playing Trine 2 until Wii U for the extra content and pad play. Been playing for two days now, really impressed. The art direction is ridiculous and curb stomps so many western fantasy themed games.
Hi Joel, nice to hear from you.
Just a quick question: Are the physics actually different on WiiU? The article mentioned that it was different on PC/WiiU, but isn't it just the same PhysX middleware across all platforms?
Previously I've said that it would require a headset but that may have been misguided... If other games (BLOPS II I heard someone say) can use the GamePad mic, then I'm sure we can too. We should know more soon.
The proper description is probably "easier on the CPU than most other modern action games". The game is using all the CPU power available on all of the consoles, but it is generally more focused on the GPU - our AI routines for example are quite simple, and the general gameplay is not that demanding either (even if the calculations are all done in 3D I believe). The physics do add a bit though.
We're using a bit higher settings on Wii U in general but I don't know if it really extends to physics much. There's at least a tiny bit more animation data going on and more dynamic particles, but I don't know if those would count. If I remember right we use a newer version of PhysX on Wii U than on the other consoles, so that might do a difference (still within the 2.8.x though). I would say that whatever difference there is in physics, it's rather minimal. If this thread is still active tomorrow, I can find out more from the programmers.
Ah, neat. Thanks!
And congrats on the release.
Last question, since I spotted some discussion over on the steam forums (from a few months ago).
It was mentioned that you use a 4th render target for an ambient light term on PC and PS3, but it doesn't seem like that has made a noticeable difference compared to the 360. Do you know what's going on there (maybe done in a separate render pass for 360)? I presume WiiU uses that 4th RT as well.
Cow Mengde
Banned
Cool, but not sure if this thread will be very active tomorrow. If you told us it was weaker than the Wii, I guarantee it'll be a 100 page thread by tomorrow.
blu
Wants the largest console games publisher to avoid Nintendo's platforms.
Great job, Frozenbyte! I play the game together with my kids - while mainly spectators, they're simply mesmerized by the beautiful fairy tale art.
Joel, have you guys considered bringing the original Trine to WiiU? With that speed of getting your games up and running on the WiiU and your experience with the WiiPad, that might be a viable side project.
Joel, have you guys considered bringing the original Trine to WiiU? With that speed of getting your games up and running on the WiiU and your experience with the WiiPad, that might be a viable side project.
Skiesofwonder
Walruses, camels, bears, rabbits, tigers and badgers.
I might dip into this sometime during Christmas break. I want to download something from the WiiU eshop, but I still haven't decided between this and Little Inferno. Maybe the December patch will push me over the edge, three player online with voice chat sounds fun (if I can get it to work with my shitty Internet connection).
AndyMoogle
Member
They are adding it in the upcoming patch.
But GAF told me the WiiU version lacks effects compared to the 360 version and is clearly more ugly...based on the GB stream at the NA launch
You just can't trust DF anymore
The developers said, the WiiU version would be the best console version, so they did not lie
And GAF was partly right since the gamma issue affects how the lighting looks, but its being fixed.
Always-honest
Banned
Downloaded tge WiiU version. Looks Amazing.
Still, i would gave bought more ports on wiiU if they were slightly better. Now i just bought mario and trine.
When is the patch expected? Sounds great
Still, i would gave bought more ports on wiiU if they were slightly better. Now i just bought mario and trine.
When is the patch expected? Sounds great
SlasherJPC
Banned
Was always interested in this. The fact the dev comes in here to explain and help people understand whats going on. Kudos. Def will be getting this soon.
plagiarize
Banned
its somewhat mitigateable as is, and it still looks better than the other versions even before we have the patch.
Interesting to know the other versions have to do dynamic resolution changes. The Wii U version really is substantially better.
SquiddyCracker
Banned
It's a great looking game and the touchscreen + stylus controls are better than even a mouse when it comes to controlling the wizard.
I currently own ZombiU, Trine2 and Nano Assault. The latter is only 10 bucks and very much worth it as well. Obviously it's not a port, but neither was Mario, right.
The patch is expected mid december, i think was posted earlier in the tread.
Partly right in that they singled out the negatives despite the positives still being apparent even with the gamma issue.
its somewhat mitigateable as is, and it still looks better than the other versions even before we have the patch.
Interesting to know the other versions have to do dynamic resolution changes. The Wii U version really is substantially better.
yeah, nice to see what is possible on he WiiU even at launch if the developers give a fuck about seriously dealing with the system
plagiarize
Banned
yep. I held off on the PC version when they announced the Wii U release. I played the original on PC. It is much better being the wizard on the Wii U pad.
As I already mentioned, having picked this one over PC I am very happy to see how little I'm missing out on. Not that the cuts are minor, but that it stands up much better against the PC version compared to the other systems.
Its difficult to tell if there's dynamic resolution changes over Justin.tv
Thanks for the feedback Joel. I'd ask you some more technical questions on the Wii U, but I'm sure they're the kind of things you're not allowed to answer
I'd also say that the game's performance on the Wii U is likely in large part due to the fact that the port was done by Frozenbyte themselves, and because the game's been out on other platforms for a while now, they had the time and resources to really get to grips with the console. A lot of the other multiplats we've seen thus far were either simultaneously developed with the other versions, hence fighting for resources (and the bulk of those resources are going to go to the top-selling version, ie XBox360) or they're late ports by small external studios who have to spend most of their time simply getting a handle on the code they're given.
Anyway, it's good to hear the care that's been put into the Wii U version, and I can happily report that it looks, and plays, great.
I'd also say that the game's performance on the Wii U is likely in large part due to the fact that the port was done by Frozenbyte themselves, and because the game's been out on other platforms for a while now, they had the time and resources to really get to grips with the console. A lot of the other multiplats we've seen thus far were either simultaneously developed with the other versions, hence fighting for resources (and the bulk of those resources are going to go to the top-selling version, ie XBox360) or they're late ports by small external studios who have to spend most of their time simply getting a handle on the code they're given.
Anyway, it's good to hear the care that's been put into the Wii U version, and I can happily report that it looks, and plays, great.
Anyone can put out an analysis as early as they'd like these days and then fall back on "didn't have as much info/data when I said that." In fact, this is exactly what Pachter does, as an example. The takeaway, I suppose, is that everyone has to make their own judgment as to how to assign weightings to the credulity of opinions and analysis...
Even if it wasn't really cpu light, physics is the one thing that could be moved to the GPU. There's lot of work on that area in the PC.
CPU heavy stuff should be, dunno, pathfinding, but of the launch titles probably only AssCreed3 must be putting a heavy load on this, and it seems it doesn't really suffer that much for it.
Watch it you. Mike Pachter is the heart and soul of this industry.
I don't think anyone was calling what they saw as an "analysis". Just that the lighting looked off, which was correct.
JohnnySasaki86
Member
did they do a AC3 faceoff yet?
Yes, this is correct.
Even still, I'm willing to be many HDTV sets that aren't either too old or completely junk, have an option for HDMI black level. Maybe even gamma adjust.
Not yet, but from what i understand, the Wii U version suffers from the same type of gamma issue trine does