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Penny Arcade 11/30/2007 Jeff Gerstmann fired from Gamespot, allegedly for K&L review

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N

nightowl

Member
Shamrock said:
It's kind of sad this this whole incident is going away after about two weeks and it will be business as usual again. I'm very weary of IGN after pretty much choosing to ignore this whole situation and edit out the guy who was talking about it on their podcast. That seems very strange almost as if they are worried this whole situation could wake up people and start them looking in their direction.
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IGN did address it for a bit on their Game Scoop podcast.

Having said that, it was somewhat telling what attitudes at various places were in how they respodned to the story (or like PCGamer where they chose to try to ignore it all together). As long as the "enthusiast press" takes an inordinate amount of their advertising revenue from the very companies that they claim to objectively review, I'm not sure we'll see any marked improvement on this issue long term.

It is simply cheaper for the powers that be to weather the storm of negative public opinion when some clusterf*ck does happen (re: gerstmann affair) than to make any sort of sweeping change that would negatively effect their advertising. Oh sure, we'll hear various platitutdes meant to convince us of their good intent, but ultimately its back to business.

The only thing we can try to do is patronize sites that do better than others (or are at least perceived to do so) at keeping "church and state" separate.
 
A

AstroLad

Hail to the KING baby
As long as representatives from each site assure us that they totally aren't biased in spite of circumstances that would appear to materially compromise objectivity, I'm very content.
 
D

Demonracer999

Member
oo Kosma oo said:
This should be stickied for eternity and never forgotten.
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No lie.

Man.

Fuck **** & *****

I refuse to sell it where I work. I told my whole sales team not to. We took it off the shelves and keep it in the back and when people ask for it we go "Yeah, of course we have COD4."
 
M

mosaic

go eat paint
I don't think the weekend protest at CNet amounted to anything. I e-mailed the guy organizing it and he didn't even respond. My buds that work in the building said they didn't notice any protest Monday.

And, in the "more fuel for the fire" department:

A moderator on the GameSpot Off-Topic forum has locked the big Jeff Gerstmann thread. It was over 14,000 posts and had been open for two weeks.

http://www.*************/pages/forums/show_msgs.php?topic_id=26072117&page=721

(you'll need to replace the asterisks with game and spot and .com)

That's the locked thread. The mod started a new thread, then promptly locked it too. I don't know if the mod is staff or just a volunteer, but he sure won't help the perception that management is trying to cover everything up. They immediately lock any threads regarding Jeff's dismissal, so basically the site is trying to quell public discussion of it.

First, silence. Second, silence the userbase. Third, profit.
 
H

Hellsing321

Member
I just checked my moderation history at gamespot an apparently my user review of **** & ***** was taken down. I didn't even swear or say anything crude or offensive in it. They must have done a mass cleaning of it.
 
M

MC Safety

Member
AstroLad said:
As long as representatives from each site assure us that they totally aren't biased in spite of circumstances that would appear to materially compromise objectivity, I'm very content.
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Well, you can't really fight public perception, and I don't think any of us are all that interested enough to try.
 
D

dirtmonkey37

flinging feces ---->
mosaic said:
I don't think the weekend protest at CNet amounted to anything. I e-mailed the guy organizing it and he didn't even respond. My buds that work in the building said they didn't notice any protest Monday.

And, in the "more fuel for the fire" department:

A moderator on the GameSpot Off-Topic forum has locked the big Jeff Gerstmann thread. It was over 14,000 posts and had been open for two weeks.

http://www.*************/pages/forums/show_msgs.php?topic_id=26072117&page=721

(you'll need to replace the asterisks with game and spot and .com)

That's the locked thread. The mod started a new thread, then promptly locked it too. I don't know if the mod is staff or just a volunteer, but he sure won't help the perception that management is trying to cover everything up. They immediately lock any threads regarding Jeff's dismissal, so basically the site is trying to quell public discussion of it.

First, silence. Second, silence the userbase. Third, profit.
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The protest was cancelled. I spoke with the individual over AIM to learn that he had a change of heart regarding the whole issue. He decided that it would be best to allow Gamespot (not CNET) to heal instead of generating more and more controversy around the subject.

I disagree with his judgement, but hey, what can you do.
 
M

miyamotofreak

Banned
I think part of the reason GI stopped doing cover reviews back in March 2002 was partly because they didn't want to bend over. I remember them giving high profile cover reviews only 8's.
 
C

chespace

It's not actually trolling if you don't admit it
Sad as it may seem, this will probably blow over completely this time next year and people will be bitching about Gamespot scores being too low/high/whatever.
 
M

mosaic

go eat paint
chespace said:
Sad as it may seem, this will probably blow over completely this time next year and people will be bitching about Gamespot scores being too low/high/whatever.
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You're probably right, except they'll be complaining about a whole new slate of editors (not that I mean anything by that statement *wink*).
 
P

Pachael

Member
Justin Bailey said:
Sorry for the bump, but this was just posted on thestreet.com - it's a huge site in the financial investing world:

http://www.thestreet.com/_yahoo/new...ml?cm_ven=YAHOO&cm_cat=FREE&cm_ite=NA

Are Game Reviewers Jerking Our Joysticks?


It's good to see that this is getting more mainstream exposure.

Edit: Ok, now they changed the title to a much more inflammatory one.
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There's more pages, and I found these parts interesting:

Effect of Review scores
When Activision's (ATVI - Cramer's Take - Stockpickr) game Spiderman 3 debuted in May to scores in the lower 60s out of 100, it led Wall Street analysts to issue research notes suggesting that the stock price could take a short-term hit. Activision shares traded nearly 5.7% lower the week of May 4, when the game was released.

Meanwhile, shares of Take-Two, rose by more than 10% for a few days after BioShock received near-perfect scores after its August debut.

"The scores can have a short-term impact on the stock for large games and non-licensed titles," says Sebastian, "though it is not necessarily co-related to sales."
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Prey Misrated
In August, Video Game Watch, the media watchdog reported that a former editor at IGN, a popular gaming publication, had allegedly given in to publisher demands for a high score when negotiating for an exclusive review of Prey, a title from Take-Two's 2K Games. Take-Two executives were not available for a comment.
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Anyway it sure looks like the fire's died down for most but this'll be a sticking point whenever we discuss scores or dodgy behaviour. It might be time to remove the banzored words - Gspot might have taken a hit but they've worn it well due to the fairly strong brand that they had.
 
M

mosaic

go eat paint
Leave CNet and GameSpot banned. Management hasn't come out to say they're going to separate editorial from marketing. Shoot, management's whole spiel has been "there's nothing to see here, it's all coincidence." Uh huh.
 
C

chubigans

y'all should be ashamed
a former editor at IGN, a popular gaming publication, had allegedly given in to publisher demands for a high score when negotiating for an exclusive review of Prey
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Man was that game overrated...you know, that makes a LOT of sense now.
 
D

DjangoReinhardt

Thinks he should have been the one to kill Batman's parents.
Pachael said:
Anyway it sure looks like the fire's died down for most but this'll be a sticking point whenever we discuss scores or dodgy behaviour.
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I bet it'll just be reduced to a handful of gifs and jpegs. The publishers and enthusiast press both have vested financial interest in maintaining the status quo. Thankfully, the vast majority of the audience doesn't care and will remain unaffected.
 
M

mosaic

go eat paint
I know it's The Guardian, but this story has a tidbit of post-Gerstmann juice.

http://blogs.guardian.co.uk/games/a...veloper_claiming_it_secured_good_reviews.html

Apparently, Kohnke's legal complaint against the developer states, "Kohnke's public relations campaign was successful in creating pre-release 'buzz' around Gods & Heroes, and in convincing reviewers to write positive reviews about the game."

There's a more detailed, fact-filled story at Shack News:

http://www.shacknews.com/onearticle.x/50323

The gist, basically, is that Gods & Heroes was cancelled and Kohnke wants the rest of the money they're owed for PR duties (along with damages).

FYI, it's Kohnke's job to butter up the gaming press, and they do a DAMN GOOD job of it. Those ladies are persistent and can put together one heck of a shindig. I'm glad I haven't had to write previews in ages, because telling one of them no is tough when the response is waify puppy dog eyes and a "puhweeeaze?"
 
M

mosaic

go eat paint
Not enough detail in your post... although your post does really show just how much actual buzz people had for that game. Heh, I guess Kohnke didn't do a good job on that one.
 
S

ShutEye

Member
chespace said:
Gamers are an apathetic bunch I think. Which is why Gamespot is going to weather Gerstmann-gate just fine.
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To be fair, now that the dirty laundry has been aired there isn`t much for someone like me to do except avoid Gamespot. I`m not Industry, I don`t live on the west coast, I wouldn`t go to a protest anyway. And Reviews have lost their meaning to me, in part because I feel the whole scoring system is broken.

Not much one can do except avoid suspect sites and keep a critical eye on any review material from any source.
 
M

mosaic

go eat paint
Hmm, Josh Larson has been moved to an office further away from the editorial staff (still on the same floor). *chuckle*
 
A

alu

Member
I was reading my German Gamepro of last month, and guess what I saw...5 Star Ratings with preview comments. :lol
Funny thing is that one of the comments was from the Gamepro itself, and they clearly don't use any 5 star ratings in any way, shape or form. They did give it a very favourable review in that issue though.
This month's mag also has a K&L ad, and it has this 5 Star Rating yet again, however only with a descriptive comment: K&L is a cellphone game too!
 
N

nestea

Member
mosaic said:
Hmm, Josh Larson has been moved to an office further away from the editorial staff (still on the same floor). *chuckle*
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Guess he got tired of constantly opening his office door only to find a burning paper bag.
 
N

nightowl

Member
mosaic said:
You're probably right, except they'll be complaining about a whole new slate of editors (not that I mean anything by that statement *wink*).
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:D

mosaic said:
Hmm, Josh Larson has been moved to an office further away from the editorial staff (still on the same floor). *chuckle*
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Has there been an announcement on the restructuring post-Gerstmann? Is someone stepping into the ED role and/or will there be someone officially put in the EIC position?

I'm not sure if this has been announced officially or unofficially but I was curious if anyone here knew (and could say).
 
M

mosaic

go eat paint
I don't get G4 with my cable package, so I actually found out about this from a phone call from my "redneck" cousin:

http://www.g4tv.com/thefeed/blog/post/681562/GerstmannGate_On_G4.html

Nothing we don't already know, but it's still wild to see TV coverage of the whole situation. It's a shame they couldn't get Jeff--understandable though. Kohler and McWhertor dished out a pretty reasonable concesus, given the facts they had to work with. I do know that they'd already spoken with multiple staff members, so it's not like they were two random talking heads that G4 fished out of a pond.

The fact that my cousin of all people informed me about this makes me curious as to how the rest of the not-so-net-savvy contingent of the G4 audience feels about the situation.
 
S

squicken

Member
Wow that youtube vid is great. It is almost too well made . . .

It's weird that his story just sort of died. I mean we heard it was more than just the **** & ***** review, but the only other game that's ever been associated with the whole thing was Sony getting nasty about the Ratchet and Clank review. It's gotta be more than those 2 games.
 
M

mosaic

go eat paint
squicken said:
Probably needs a new thread. In the comments of the article, someone said "like rats off a sinking ship." Seems to be that way.
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If someone else wants to give it its own thread, be my guest. I'm still stinging from being accused of having some ulterior agenda. Yeah, as if Gerstmann-gate didn't practically ruin my life (there went the choicest gig ever).

Anyway, if people weren't convinced before that nasty shenanegans were to blame for Jeff's firing, well... Alex's departure ought to speak volumes to that.
 
T

Takeda Kenshi

blew Staal
The best possible outcome? All these guys get together and make a new online ratings website that prides itself on integrity. Considering all the bullshit nowadays, it could just buy them a lot of attention.
 
O

Onemic

Member
Navarro's gone=GS officially dead

I honestly don't want to say I'm happy, as I've been a user of that site for over 4 years before the whole gerstmann thing, but I am. This among the other editors that have left will send a clear message to the idiots at Cnet that have caused, GS one of the most respected(and my favorite up till now) websites in gaming industry to be run into the ground.
 
M

mosaic

go eat paint
I'm not a lover of fan videos... but this dude produced a GameSpot-themed rap delving into his disdain over Gerstmann-gate that's actually kind of... decent.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=Iq3peQ1KciA

Yes, it's to the tune of Eminem's "Lose Yourself," but the lyrics ain't half bad. Get over the fact that it's a fan-rap, and actually listen, and you might end up appreciating the story it tells. I did anyway... despite the Street Fighter sound effects toward the end *grin*
 
M

mosaic

go eat paint
I know David Jaffe posts here, so I'd just like to say to Jaffe: You are THE mf'ing man!

See, GameSpot does this weekly video show, maybe you've seen it, called On The Spot. It's live and they let people call-in to ask questions.

So, Ryan MacDonald takes a call and waddya know... it's David Jaffe... calling up to ask to speak to Jeff...

Jaffe: "I'm calling for Jeff Gerstmann!"
Ryan: "He's not here right now... can I take a message?"
Jaffe: "Tell him Eidos is calling."

Hahaha! Epic win.

Edited-to-add: The call comes in at roughly 46:44 in the stream / download that just went up (during the Twisted Metal: Head On demo).
 
F

Fun Factor

Formerly FTWer
mosaic said:
I know David Jaffe posts here, so I'd just like to say to Jaffe: You are THE mf'ing man!

See, GameSpot does this weekly video show, maybe you've seen it, called On The Spot. It's live and they let people call-in to ask questions.

So, Ryan MacDonald takes a call and waddya know... it's David Jaffe... calling up to ask to speak to Jeff...

Jaffe: "I'm calling for Jeff Gerstmann!"
Ryan: "He's not here right now... can I take a message?"
Jaffe: "Tell him Eidos is calling."

Hahaha! Epic win.

Edited-to-add: The call comes in at roughly 46:44 in the stream / download that just went up (during the Twisted Metal: Head On demo).
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lol I needed to break my ban on Gamespot to watch that.
 
M

mosaic

go eat paint
A little birdie tells me that Jason Ocampo is leaving GameSpot in a couple of days to go work for... well, I promised not to reveal that last part. But when it comes out, you'll shit bricks.
 
F

Firestorm

Member
mosaic said:
A little birdie tells me that Jason Ocampo is leaving GameSpot in a couple of days to go work for... well, I promised not to reveal that last part. But when it comes out, you'll shit bricks.
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so 1up
 
A

Acosta

Member
mosaic said:
A little birdie tells me that Jason Ocampo is leaving GameSpot in a couple of days to go work for... well, I promised not to reveal that last part. But when it comes out, you'll shit bricks.
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So did 1UP got their News Editor? Are they going to force eXxy hairstyle on Ocampo as part of the deal?
 
D

dirtmonkey37

flinging feces ---->
mosaic said:
I'm not a lover of fan videos... but this dude produced a GameSpot-themed rap delving into his disdain over Gerstmann-gate that's actually kind of... decent.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=Iq3peQ1KciA

Yes, it's to the tune of Eminem's "Lose Yourself," but the lyrics ain't half bad. Get over the fact that it's a fan-rap, and actually listen, and you might end up appreciating the story it tells. I did anyway... despite the Street Fighter sound effects toward the end *grin*
Click to expand...

You're Alex Navarro, correct?
 
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