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Azure Dream · Nov 4, 2012

This just sucks all around. Not only was an innocent child killed (and yes, that is the most important aspect here), but when you look at the two stories...

Pittsburgh police officers and keepers attempted to lure the dogs away but one "aggressive" dog was shot and killed by an officer. Ms. Baker commended the officer, noting the dog would not move away from the child.

African painted dogs are among the most endangered dog species in the world, with less than 3,000 left in the wild, Baker said. The zoo has a breeding program.

It had to be done, of course, but that's one less of a highly-endangered species the zoo was trying to preserve in the first place. So this is a terrible event on so many levels.

Patrick Bateman · Nov 4, 2012

These dogs have been criticized for a cruel method of killing, by eating their prey alive.[24]
[edit]

From the wiki-page. :/

scar tissue · Nov 4, 2012

African painted dogs are among the most endangered dog species in the world, with less than 3,000 left in the wild, Baker said.

[...] "aggressive" dog was shot and killed by an officer.

Fucking hell. I feel sorry for the kid, but to me, this is just as bad.

pestul · Nov 4, 2012

Actually, that is pretty fucking cruel. Most predatory species will at least aim for the kill first before eating for obvious safety reasons. What a horrible way to watch anyone die.. I'm just glad the descriptions leave it at that.

Valkyr Junkie · Nov 4, 2012

Patrick Bateman said:
From the wiki-page. :/

Animals can be criticized?

Apath · Nov 4, 2012

fluffydelusions said:
I had to look what a painted dog was:

Seriously. Shit journalism =P

Alligatorjandro · Nov 4, 2012

what a fucking terrible thing to happen.

CornBurrito · Nov 4, 2012

Ether_Snake said:
Yeah I'm never traveling again either, pictures on National Geographic and seeing the food on the Food Channel is good enough.

Don't buy your kids a dog either. Or have a pet. Youtube videos and all.

Dont go to concerts either. You have mp3 players now.

And no sports events. You can watch most of them on TV.

Patrick Bateman said:
From the wiki-page. :/

The wiki page says "the dogs have been criticized"

wtf? The dogs cannot control how evolution shaped their behavior.

diamount · Nov 4, 2012

outunderthestars said:
Yes, because a youtube video is the same as seeing an animal in real life

Please tell me how the two are different? You are unable to touch the animal and any behavior you will see will still be the same.

outunderthestars · Nov 4, 2012

CornBurrito said:
Don't buy your kids a dog either. Or have a pet. Youtube videos and all.

Dont go to concerts either. You have mp3 players now.

And no sports events. You can watch most of them on TV.

Why would you have kids, since sex could easily be replaced by redtube videos?

CornBurrito · Nov 4, 2012

diamount said:
Please tell me how the two are different? You are unable to touch the animal and any behavior you will see will still be the same.

Try and replicate a nice family outing to a zoo with youtube videos. Meanwhile footage captured by a youtube video isn't going to perfectly replicate behavior at a zoo setting, unless its a 24 hour live feed. Oh an some animals you can actually interact with at a zoo.

Try and replicate a facility that protects and preserves endangered animal species with youtube videos. Zoos have more utility than just "ohhh look at the pretty animals."

DragonGirl · Nov 4, 2012

purg3 said:
Exactly. I'm sure no one wants to place blame in a situation like this, but someone has to be at fault. Whether it was the parent or poorly implemented safety precautions. I'm curious as to what the parent was doing at the time, if they were holding the child and he fell or just not paying attention.

I'm laying no blame here but just wanted to point out how jaw-droppingly stupid people can be around wild animals in this anecdote:

Years ago while on a family vacation in Cancun I saw the following. There was a restaurant built on a pier over the water, and under this place lived a massive alligator. The roads and walkways were elevated and had railings and you could look down and see it basking on the little strip of shore below. A father and his small kid were looking at it and good ol' dad lifted up his son over the railing so the kid could see it better, basically held the kid out like an offering. Sure, that gator was a good 8 feet below, but those animals can launch themselves pretty high if they're motivate, or daddy's hands could have lost their grip. It wasn't the most safety conscious thing a person could do. I'm hardly one to suggest kids need to be protected ever second of every day (helicopter parents hello) but parents should exercise some basic risk assessment, y'think?

Count of Monte Sawed-Off · Nov 4, 2012

Valkyr Junkie said:
Animals can be criticized?

They can. I used to criticize my dog all the time, but she didn't really care and continued to eat cat shit whenever the opportunity afforded itself.

Halcyon · Nov 4, 2012

I've been to that zoo three or four times. Nothing about that exhibit seemed dangerous. Kinda crazy.

outunderthestars · Nov 4, 2012

diamount said:
Please tell me how the two are different? You are unable to touch the animal and any behavior you will see will still be the same.

If you really can't see the clear difference between seeing an animal in person and watching it on a screen, then I honestly feel badly for you. Have you ever gone to a concert, or sporting event? If so, why didn't you just stay home and watch videos instead?

Diablos · Nov 4, 2012

Hits really close to home... not far at all from there... poor kid

Kai Dracon · Nov 4, 2012

While this is terrible all around, I'm weirded out by the notion of "criticizing" a wild predator for being a wild predator.

diamount · Nov 4, 2012

kswiston said:
Clearly it is better to let many of these species go extinct, since we already have enough videos of them on Youtube correct?

Zoos serve as a gene bank for species at severe risk of extinction. Several formerly extinct in the wild animals have been reintroduced into their historical natural habitats thanks to the effort of zoos. Other formally critically endangered species have recovered to stable population numbers due to Zoo breeding and conservation programs. Zoos educate the public on conservation matters, raising awareness and compassion. Also, seeing animals in person is a lot different than watching a video of them.

In a perfect world, there would be no need for zoos, but the reality of the situation is people in Africa, South America and South Asia are poor, and value short term monetary gains over the long term viability of their natural resources (which is understandable when you are struggling to eat). As such about a third of all mammals and birds will likely go extinct in the next 50 years without serious conservation efforts.

Yes, but there are things called sanctuaries that keep animals from going extinct. The animals are generally left in an ecosystem similar to that in the wild with little human interference outside of protecting them from poachers and diseases outbreaks.

diamount · Nov 4, 2012

outunderthestars said:
If you really can't see the clear difference between seeing an animal in person and watching it on a screen, then I honestly feel badly for you. Have you ever gone to a concert, or sporting event? If so, why didn't you just stay home and watch videos instead?

Don't be presumptuos. I wouldn't of made that statement if I never experienced going to a Zoo.

SapientWolf · Nov 4, 2012

scar tissue said:
African painted dogs are among the most endangered dog species in the world, with less than 3,000 left in the wild, Baker said.

[...] "aggressive" dog was shot and killed by an officer.

Fucking hell. I feel sorry for the kid, but to me, this is just as bad.

A dog being shot is as bad as a kid being eaten alive?

nVidiot_Whore · Nov 4, 2012

diamount said:
Yes, but there are things called sanctuaries that keep animals from going extinct. The animals are generally left in an ecosystem similar to that in the wild with little human interference outside of protecting them from poachers and diseases outbreaks.

And many zoos participate with these sanctuaries and other efforts to protect species.

They both directly donate to efforts and provide advertising for such efforts.

They provide education programs as well, motivating children to grow up caring about endangered species.

Grimm Fandango · Nov 4, 2012

Not surprised to see this turning into a zoo-hating thread.

diamount · Nov 4, 2012

nVidiot_Whore said:
And many zoos participate with these sanctuaries and other efforts to protect species.

They both directly donate to efforts and provide advertising for such efforts.

They provide education programs as well, motivating children to grow up caring about endangered species.

That's funny.. because from what I've read most money goes into the Zoo owners pockets instead of reinvesting into protecting animal species.

CornBurrito · Nov 4, 2012

diamount said:
Yes, but there are things called sanctuaries that keep animals from going extinct. The animals are generally left in an ecosystem similar to that in the wild with little human interference outside of protecting them from poachers and diseases outbreaks.

And they tend to rely on donations for government grants entirely for their existence. Zoos can generate revenue.

diamount said:
That's funny.. because from what I've read most money goes into the Zoo owners pockets instead of reinvesting into protecting animal species.

Links please.

Anyway what is your stance on sporting events and concerts?

nVidiot_Whore · Nov 4, 2012

diamount said:
That's funny.. because from what I've read most money goes into the Zoo owners pockets instead of reinvesting into protecting animal species.

Right, not all zoos are created equally.

I said many zoos. Like the zoo I am a member of, owed by the city of Seattle.

http://zoo.org

Many exhibits feature information about the Zoo supplying various resources (including volunteers who fly all over the world) to help protect the animals being exhibited.

outunderthestars · Nov 4, 2012

diamount said:
That's funny.. because from what I've read most money goes into the Zoo owners pockets instead of reinvesting into protecting animal species.

Citation? In the U.S. most zoo's are either operated by the government or owned by a non-profit agency.

TheSeks · Nov 4, 2012

fluffydelusions said:
I had to look what a painted dog was:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped....jpg/250px-Lycaon_pictus_(Temminck,_1820).jpg

So, it's just a muddy dog?

diamount · Nov 4, 2012

CornBurrito said:
Links please.

Anyway what is your stance on sporting events and concerts?

I don't need a link. It's obvious, Zoos exist to make a profit either for the sole owner or shareholders. Betterment of the animal comes after if there is any left over.

As for concerts/sport events.. of course I've been to them, but how are the two comparable? I don't go to Zoo's anymore because I do not agree with them and would rather donate to animal charities responsible for conservation efforts.

I go to concerts because I like the band and want to support them.

zoukka · Nov 4, 2012

I'd jump after and mauled the dog to death.

evil solrac v3.0 · Nov 4, 2012

diamount said:
Indeed.. with YT you can find any animal you want... no dangers, no animals trapped in very small spaces and no tragic deaths like this. I hope in the future zoos are banned as they serve no purpose with the invention of media sharing sites.

I watch lots of youtube videos on Lions and Tigers and nothing prepared me for how immense and powerful looking they look up-close when I saw them at the Bronx zoo. it's night and day.
I like the zoo because they have many conservation efforts for many of the species they have on exhibit.

CornBurrito said:
You underestimate how quickly kids can move.

if a three year old is faster than me , then i'm not having kids. and in a crowded area like a zoo, the child is not leaving my grip, not because of the animals, but because they can easily get lost in the crowd.

Jack Scofield said:
Fucked up story on all counts. I find it kind of ridiculous that you'd kill a wild animal for acting like a wild animal, but I guess the child was endangered at that point, and this wasn't after the entire ordeal or anything. So that kinda makes sense.

they could have used fire extinguishers like they did with the Tiger at the Bronx zoo last month to scare the animals away. terrible all around.

Count of Monte Sawed-Off said:
They can. I used to criticize my dog all the time, but she didn't really care and continued to eat cat shit whenever the opportunity afforded itself.

you didn't understand the situation, the dynamics of eating cat shit. maybe, I don't know, you should have asked the cat.

SapientWolf said:
A dog being shot is as bad as a kid being eaten alive?

not really equating the two things, but it is tragic that the dog (an endangered species) had to be killed.

metalslimer · Nov 4, 2012

Yeah I would have jumped in if I had a kid fall in. Of course i probably would have been mauled too, but man I don't think I could handle see my kid mauled to death by animals. I would never get over it. And zoos definitely serve a valuable function of preservation for many of these animals.

CornBurrito · Nov 4, 2012

diamount said:
I don't need a link. It's obvious, Zoos exist to make a profit either for the sole owner or shareholders. Betterment of the animal comes after if there is any left over.

As for concerts/sport events.. of course I've been to them, but how are the two comparable.

A. So you have zero evidence, and want me to accept it because "hurr durr its obvious."

outunderthestars said:
Citation? In the U.S. most zoo's are either operated by the government or owned by a non-profit agency.

See someone claimed the opposite of you. Now post actual fucking evidence or admit you have no argument.

B. You can watch those things on youtube. To me watching a video of an animal isnt anything close to going to a zoo. The experience is different for me and others.

outunderthestars · Nov 4, 2012

diamount said:
I don't need a link. It's obvious, Zoos exist to make a profit either for the sole owner or shareholders. Betterment of the animal comes after if there is any left over.

As for concerts/sport events.. of course I've been to them, but how are the two comparable? I don't go to Zoo's anymore because I do not agree with them and would rather donate to animal charities responsible for conservation efforts.

I go to concerts because I like the band and want to support them.

You claim that a you tube video is the same because you don't get to interact with the animal. You don't get to interact with a band at a concert, yet you still go to those.

again, if it was obvious that zoos exist to make profits, provide some documentation for that claim.

freenudemacusers · Nov 4, 2012

diamount said:
I don't need a link. It's obvious, Zoos exist to make a profit either for the sole owner or shareholders. Betterment of the animal comes after if there is any left over.

So I take it no links are coming.

zoukka · Nov 4, 2012

metalslimer said:
Yeah I would have jumped in if I had a kid fall in. Of course i probably would have been mauled too, but man I don't think I could handle see my kid mauled to death by animals. I would never get over it. And zoos definitely serve a valuable function of preservation for many of these animals.

I would've bitten the eyes off the dog and its puppies.

nVidiot_Whore · Nov 4, 2012

diamount said:
I don't need a link. It's obvious, Zoos exist to make a profit either for the sole owner or shareholders. Betterment of the animal comes after if there is any left over.

As for concerts/sport events.. of course I've been to them, but how are the two comparable? I don't go to Zoo's anymore because I do not agree with them and would rather donate to animal charities responsible for conservation efforts.

I go to concerts because I like the band and want to support them.

Many zoos ARE conservation efforts. They aren't "for profit."

This was explained to you.

You conduct yourself extremely poorly. The Pittsburgh Zoo this story is about? Has a breeding program for wild dogs that are then released into.... the wild.

diamount · Nov 4, 2012

outunderthestars said:
You claim that a you tube video is the same because you don't get to interact with the animal. You don't get to interact with a band at a concert, yet you still go to those.

again, if it was obvious that zoos exist to make profits, provide some documentation for that claim.

Want proof? Here it is

Philly Zoo spends less than 1% of it's takings on actually conservation.

CornBurrito · Nov 4, 2012

diamount said:
Want proof? Here it is

Philly Zoo spends less than 1% of it's takings on actually conservation.

That's one zoo. You claimed this was true for many zoos.

evil solrac v3.0 · Nov 4, 2012

I do believe though that there are places where Zoos are for profit.

Alligatorjandro · Nov 4, 2012

Its sad but I dont feel bad about the dog being shot.

nVidiot_Whore · Nov 4, 2012

diamount said:
Want proof? Here it is

Philly Zoo spends less than 1% of it's takings on actually conservation.

Right from the link you provided:

Education and Conservation 2,531,000 - 8%

CornBurrito · Nov 4, 2012

So let me get this straight. One zoo (The Philly Zoo) gives 8% of its earnings to conservation efforts.

Thus, all zoos everywhere in the entire world should be banned?

Am I following this logical (lol) argument made by diamount correctly?

What about this argument?

1. I watch videos of animals on youtube
2. I watch animals at a zoo
3. To me there was no significant difference in experience
4. Ergo, all humans will have a similar experience to me

evil solrac v3.0 · Nov 4, 2012

Alligatorjandro said:
Its sad but I dont feel bad about the dog being shot.

why? kid was dead at that point.

ThatCrazyGuy · Nov 4, 2012

Saying going to a zoo to see live animals is the same as watching YouTube vids of said animals is vastly incorrect in my view.

Anyways, terrible tragedy. Intested in the investigation. If somebody helped the kid or something to get over or if the zoo is at fault for the design of he barriers.

diamount · Nov 4, 2012

CornBurrito said:
That's one zoo. You claimed this was true for many zoos.

Doesn't matter. You asked for proof of this happening and you got it.

Archer · Nov 4, 2012

fluffydelusions said:
The Internet is my zoo

/thread

CornBurrito · Nov 4, 2012

diamount said:
Doesn't matter. You asked for proof of this happening and you got it.

It does matter since you called for a ban of all zoos.

And you are incorrect. I didn't ask for proof of a single instance. I asked for you to provide proof for your claim. Your claim is that this was occurring at many zoos. Enough to warrant an outright ban of zoos.

evil solrac v3.0 · Nov 4, 2012

nVidiot_Whore said:
Right from the link you provided:

they spend far more on amenities and salary for people than animal care. put up all the numbers.

Grimm Fandango · Nov 4, 2012

diamount said:
Doesn't matter. You asked for proof of this happening and you got it.

So all the other zoos that do donate to conservation efforts are offset by this one instance (which isn't even that convincing)?

CornBurrito · Nov 4, 2012

Grimm Fandango said:
So all the other zoos that do donate to conservation efforts are offset by this one instance (which isn't even that convincing)?

Yep. Ban all zoos.

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