Complicated
Banned
What in the fuck am I reading? More enemies on screen? More advanced AI? I must have played a different version of Destiny because my experience was a huge downgrade on both those accounts from Bungie and 343 Halo games.
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Bungie explains why Destiny 2 is 30 FPS on consoles, even the PS4 Pro (CPU limits)
- Thread starter Nirolak
- Start date
What in the fuck am I reading? More enemies on screen? More advanced AI? I must have played a different version of Destiny because my experience was a huge downgrade on both those accounts from Bungie and 343 Halo games.
Yautja_Warrior
Member
That is the question, they have just said 4k but didn't go into detail on native or checkerboarding. Imagine if it was native 4k on Pro, that would really annoy the Scorpio fan boys, I mean the 30fps cap is already annoying some people, who expected 60fps from the new console.
Yep, the Pro CPU is 2.1GHz and Scorpio is only 2.3GHz, so only a little bit faster. Not enough of a difference to double the framerate.
CarbonFire
Member
It's P2P for the multiplayer, THAT explains the limit. At any point, your machine might be tasked with being the host for the game, which puts extra strain on the processor making it harder (or impossible) to hit those 16ms frametimes.
Again if the game is CPU bound then dynamic resolution won't increase framerate.
Destiny does have more enemies at a given instance in one fight. Next time you play Warzone I want you to count the number of enemies you fight in a single instance i.e. how many enemies there are in one group (not across the whole map). I can guarantee you it is going to be no where near the 30-40 something that Destiny 1 can have at its peak.
Deadly Cyclone
Pride of Iowa State
Lot of backseat game devs in here.
Fredrik
Member
Incredibly smooth? Isn't it just like any other 30fps game?
I can't believe I have to spell it out, but yes, that was sarcasm.
Interfectum
Member
They do but it probably wouldn't matter anyway... Scorpio plays Xbox One games at native 4K. The Xbox One version of Destiny 2 is 30fps, so that's what Scorpio will be regardless.
Scrotum Phillips
Member
What? There's most certainly a PvP mode. Destiny 1 was 6v6. This is 4v4. I certainly enjoyed Crucible in Destiny 1, but there's nothing amazing going on it besides just being a solid PvP mode.
I can't fathom why they couldn't make Destiny 2 PvP 60. It's 4v4 with no AI and likely smallish maps. Especially if the PC does 60 and it's not "breaking" the game. Many games do SP at 30 and MP at 60, shocked Destiny 2 isn't one of them.
PvE at 30 is disappointing, but I can totally see that their explanation probably isn't BS here.
Stallion Dan
Member
So from PS3 to PS4 Pro the jump is 720p>1080p.
PS3 to PS4 Pro...
PS3 to PS4 Pro...
It clocks higher but still has the same shitty jaguar cpu IIRC(?).
Sorry, I actually edited my original post with further details that are relevant. Basically I just said that I believe in the shift from a PvE sim to a PvP sim, that you are sacrificing things. You're not computing AI, you aren't worried about vehicle physics (unless they are in PvP -- not sure if confirmed or not), basically, you're worried about ragdolls, collision and projectiles. As I said, I think they are giving a completely reasonable case for the PvE side of things, but not the PvP side imo. (And I don't really mind PvE being 30 -- but in a world of games like TF2/CoD/etc being 60 fps in their MP, and the inclination Bungie *should* have to bring PvP to truely competitive, I really want to lobby on the side of them focusing on this for PvP)
Your point about dynamic resolution is a fair one, though.
You do realise the kind of posts you see in GAF in this sort of thread right ? It's not unsurprising that you have to spell it out because people would make even more ridiculous comments than yours while actually being serious.
People will say it's just another Jaguar, MS will say it's a heavily modified Jaguar that won't have the same CPU bound issues.
Scorpio could do 60 without an issue, even if it was a variable framerate. Not sure how much Bungie have modified this engine but they are still keeping to baseline PS4/XB1 capabilities.
Not sure MS should be happy about Devs throttling the system because reasons.
I guess we find out about E3!
No since it's a custom CPU. Each core is handcrafted by principal AMD engineers.
Yep. I mean they say customisations but you know its going to be nothing.
There is a hotchips event soon including the Scorpio, so I guess we'll see.
I've got about 200hrs in Destiny, yeah.
I mean is the really up for debate? There 24 players in a Warzone map, several dozen enemy AI onscreen at once, there's (at least) 10 different enemy types, each with variants that have different behaviors. Then there are AI and player controlled Land and Air vehicles, all with more detailed physics models than what you see in Destiny.
Yeah halo, looks worse and has a dynamic resolution... but Halo is doing more, and it's an older game than Destiny 2 will be when it launches.
That said, I think i realize the difference is that Halo processes its AI and physics on the server, while Destiny handles all that on a players CPU.
But when you get to the 4v4 that excuse should go out the window.
BiGBoSSMk23
A company being excited for their new game is a huge slap in the face to all the fans that liked their old games.
Yeah, right... Because no other FPS out there makes use of physics simulation or destructible environments (Frostbite engine says Hi again).
It's real easy to stroke their dicks on an soft ass interview about how awesome their game is.
Halo 5 is 60fps on a Bone.
You have no excuse, Bungle.
It's real easy to stroke their dicks on an soft ass interview about how awesome their game is.
Halo 5 is 60fps on a Bone.
You have no excuse, Bungle.
Stormhammer
Member
oh damn i didnt realize this was all that needed to be done. i wonder why they never thought of this
Mossybrew
Member
Yeah, it's really a non-issue for me.
JareBear: Remastered
Banned
Or just informed gamers. Stay frosty, though
KillerMan91
Member
Well regarding of gaffers? yes. Mainstream consumers? They don't give a fuck.
Psychoward
Banned
You say this sarcastically but I mean, yeah? That would have worked. Or ya know, since their (valid) excuse about the cpu for pve doesn't apply to pvp since the areas are much smaller, the player count is much smaller, there's no destruction/physics simulation is much lower, and there isn't any AI they probably wouldn't have even had to adjust the graphics at all.
Jaguar Victory
Member
I don't mind 30fps but your points on Halo are wrong. BTB and Warzone have many more characters on screen with vehicles.
Also the vex are 2 models used over and over again so not Amy different from Halo.
JareBear: Remastered
Banned
I mean sure they do. They have the perfect excuse:
"We didn't design for 60fps across the board from the beginning of the development cycle."
Not if each core is custom handcrafted by principal AMD engineers. There will be no CPU issue with the Scorpio.
Yeah probably, but it's still gonna be a problem going forward. Console performance in the latter half of last gen was horrendous.
DrROBschiz
Member
what about this upcoming "new" ps4 everyones whispering about loloolol
Also WTF at least give us the option to run at 60FPS at 1080p
Not everyone wants or needs 4k
Also WTF at least give us the option to run at 60FPS at 1080p
Not everyone wants or needs 4k
Not really, Destiny 2 is 30fps because they decided it will be 30fps.
They could have made a Destiny 2 with 60fps, but it would have been a different Destiny 2.
30fps games were also common last gen and the gen before that and so on.
Available power will always be used, but as long as 60fps doesn't become the priority it will be used elsewhere.
If 30fps had a highly negative impact on sales we would be swimming in 60fps games.
In reality the opposite is often true so there is little reason to invest a big chunk of your available power to get to 60fps.
CarbonFire
Member
It's been holding things back almost from the beginning.
Zen will be a revelation when the next gen consoles hit in a couple of years.
JareBear: Remastered
Banned
Dedicated servers handle physics and other players replace AI.
KillerMan91
Member
That will be pretty much always the case. Average performance of PS4 and Xbox One titles this gen have been miles ahead compared to last gen during same timeframe. I mean people complain about 30fps games on consoles but last gen a lot of games couldn't hold even that. Especially open world games.
Mass Appeal
Member
Yah that's a ridiculous statement. I have halo 5 and imo Destiny 1 looks better. Destiny 2 looks A LOT better then Halo 5.
Edit: halo 5 multi might be 60fps but most of the maps look like ass plus there is so much more going on in destiny pvp. I just can't take anyone seriously when they say Halo 5 looks good.
Taliban Stan
Member
So for many, Destiny 2 will be so choppy and unresponsive that it's completely unplayable, no?
Yes the can absolutely do Crucible at 60FPS because none of these constraints exist in PvP. But they didn't maybe cause they felt they didn't want a disparity (they don't even want disparity in weapons and abilities). Now that is a developer decision through and through and not technical and we can discuss on whether that decision was right or not. I personally feel it was not and PvP should have been 60FPS. I was never expecting PvE to be 60, but I am a bit disappointed eventhough I'm not surprised that PvP is the same.
Btw they also have this hybrid networking thing going on in PvP where they are constantly changing hosts every minute or so. I don't know how much stress that has on the CPU.
Yeah you might not have caught my edit, but that's what I've been saying.
I think the big difference is that 343 offloaded many CPU intensive tasks to the server, while Bungie still has us playing p2p.
That's the real travesty here.
therealbigrich
Member
Can't wait till someone builds a comparable rig and tried out destiny 2 at 60 fps . Would be nice just to get the option of 1080p uncapped
If it's still jaguar based, yes. The clock increase might not be enough.
Jaguar Victory
Member
You know what? You might be onto something here.
I'm now thinking what if the AI and simulation was done server side ? They probably won't have any of this bottleneck. It'll probably cost a ton of money to maintain servers but as an added benefit we'd have dedicated servers. But I guess it comes down to cost-benefit thing. A few thousand servers vs half a million to a million servers. Halo 5 has Azure to thank for and since it is first party they get to use it for cheap I guess, but unfortunately other platforms don't have this liberty. So either they don't fully in the gaming platform itself or have a similar network set up for both PC and PS4 which means shit ton of money.
Yautja_Warrior
Member
Yep this.
As much as the fanboys are trying to run damage control, the fact is the CPU is still a 2.3GHz Jaguar, no matter what MS has done to customise it and Destiny seems to be CPU bound, needing a better CPU to run at 60fps.
Seeing post like this:
And all the crazy scorpio hype, it's not safe to assume every post is trolling. Also, deadpan sarcastic shitposting is still shitposting.
BleedOrange
Banned
Same for Scorpio, i guess
This is one of the dumbest things I've heard in relation to the PS4 Pro. As is a higher resolution wasn't an inherent advantage as well. I'm 100% sure they're just trying to combat the narrative surrounding the CPU power.