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CPS2 · Jan 25, 2012

Skilletor said:
Nawp, that's not all I'm saying. But that's okay.

I won't drag this out too much, but how SC tends to work is, if anything that's not flashing blue gets blocked, you're at a disadvantage and have to defend and let the other guy attack. Unless you've pushed them far enough away to a point where you may be able to attack again. But generally, the only way you're going to keep attacking someone is if you're hitting them and getting frame advantage, or if you're sidestepping, ducking or jumping moves. There aren't really any lengthy blockstrings, and frame traps tend to come from when you're actually hitting someone and then following up (whereas 2d fighters have frame traps simply from having several moves blocked).

Has any of that changed in your opinion? How is it more like 2 than 4, other than the new sidestep? I read your post as if you're implying that you're getting frame advantage from having your moves blocked now? Because they have less recovery?

I know the frame data has changed, but it's changed based on what was good in SC4.

Skilletor · Jan 25, 2012

CPS2 said:
I won't drag this out too much, but how SC tends to work is, if anything that's not flashing blue gets blocked, you're at a disadvantage and have to defend and let the other guy attack. Unless you've pushed them far enough away to a point where you may be able to attack again. But generally, the only way you're going to keep attacking someone is if you're hitting them and getting frame advantage, or if you're sidestepping, ducking or jumping moves. There aren't really any lengthy blockstrings, and frame traps tend to come from when you're actually hitting someone and then following up (whereas 2d fighters have frame traps simply from having several moves blocked).

Has any of that changed in your opinion? How is it more like 2 than 4, other than the new sidestep? I read your post as if you're implying that you're getting frame advantage from having your moves blocked now? Because they have less recovery?

I know the frame data has changed, but it's changed based on what was good in SC4.

That's not how it works at all. I actually wonder if you're serious about this post.

"God's Beard!" · Jan 25, 2012

I wanna play more ZWEI :-(

I remember turning around every time ZWEI showed up on the tournament screen. The guy that won kept doing this badass combo into EX stomp into Ultra with a follow up. That was the coolest looking thing I've ever seen and only redoubled how awesome I think ZWEI is.

My character interest level top 5 after playing/watching yesterday:

ZWEI
Raphael
Ezio
Nightmare
Alpha Patroklos(not in the build but I love me some Setsuka)

V_Arnold · Jan 25, 2012

Wow God's Beard, you really do not play female chars, dont you?

Skipping Skullgirls?

Takamura-San · Jan 25, 2012

I'm very lukewarm on SC.

Amazed on the lack of comment of the combo breaker.

LowParry · Jan 25, 2012

I've always been liking to play all the characters in the SC games. They all are really fun. Though Tira I'm still keeping as my main. Mitsu a great alt. The new characters I'm really looking forward to playing.

CPS2 · Jan 25, 2012

Skilletor said:
That's not how it works at all. I actually wonder if you're serious about this post.

You're trolling =/

Almost everything in SC is negative on block and you won't even acknowledge this, let alone explain how you think it's changed.

Skilletor · Jan 25, 2012

CPS2 said:
You're trolling =/

Almost everything in SC is negative on block and you won't even acknowledge this, let alone explain how you think it's changed.

No, almost everything in SC4 is negative on block. That's not how it's been in other SC games. Hence mine, and other people's opinions. That's why Maxi was so good in SC2 and so bad in SC4. In SC4, Taki had almost nothing to transition into PO from since she had no frame advantage, which is different than SC2 and 3. No frame advantage doesn't give him time to set stuff up.

Also extended recovery on moves slowed the pace of the game down considerably, coupled with the slower movement.

"God's Beard!" · Jan 25, 2012

Other than Setsuka, I don't think I've ever liked any of the female characters in Soul.

My mains in the old games:

Soul Edge: Seigfried
Soul Calibur: Hwang
Soul Calibur 2: Assassin/Raphael/Astaroth
Soul Calibur 3: Raphael/Setsuka
Soul Calibur 4: Astaroth/Seigfried

I just think that most of the girls have really ugly fighting styles, or don't fit how I play. Leixia, Hilde and Viola all look beastly, but I don't want to play them. Speaking of ugly, definitely no Skullgirls. Even with Jojo's references.

Kimosabae · Jan 25, 2012

When was Maxi ever considered good in SC2, haha?

I always thought he was good, because he was one of my mains, but the community at large thought Maxi was low tier.

NeonZ · Jan 25, 2012

It kind of feels like Talim was just plain sabotaged... She was great and popular in SC2, but then they completely redid her moveset in SC3 and made it much worse, and they did little to fix her problems in SC4 (the one balance update after game release made her even worse, IIRC).

Even story/marketing-wise she received a lot of focus in SC2, but afterwards was just thrown away, with SC3 and SC4 not really doing much to promote her presence in general materials, and the in-game backstories basically saying that she was entirely pointless and did nearly nothing in the previous titles every time...

Skilletor · Jan 25, 2012

Kimosabae said:
When was Maxi ever considered good in SC2, haha?

I always thought he was good, because he was one of my mains, but the community at large thought Maxi was low tier.

My opinion might be skewed, since the only Maxi player I ever played was WCMaxi.

But my point stands, he had frame advantage on normal attacks in SC2/3, and very little in SC4.

And it looks like he's similar to past entries in this, though maybe soakrates could weigh in on that.

Lord-Audie said:
I'm very lukewarm on SC.

Amazed on the lack of comment of the combo breaker.

Because there isn't a combo breaker? Wut?

CPS2 · Jan 25, 2012

Skilletor said:
No, almost everything in SC4 is negative on block. That's not how it's been in other SC games.

I'm pretty sure you're wrong. Kinda sucks that I can't just link to this stuff and show you because I can't find it anywhere, but I'm reaaaaaally pretty sure you're wrong about this.

Anyway I won't argue anymore. If someone can actually find the data and show us who's right that'll settle it.

Skilletor · Jan 25, 2012

CPS2 said:
I'm pretty sure you're wrong. Kinda sucks that I can't just link to this stuff and show you because I can't find it anywhere, but I'm reaaaaaally pretty sure you're wrong about this.

Anyway I won't argue anymore. If someone can actually find the data and show us who's right that'll settle it.

Pretty sure I'm right. SC4 is closer to DoA4, while other SCs are closer to Tekken as far as frame advantage goes. It certainly isn't "if it's glowing blue, you have advantage" in SCs other than SC4.

sixteen-bit · Jan 25, 2012

Lord-Audie said:
I'm very lukewarm on SC.

Amazed on the lack of comment of the combo breaker.

There's a combo breaker?

CPS2 · Jan 25, 2012

Skilletor said:
Pretty sure I'm right. SC4 is closer to DoA4, while other SCs are closer to Tekken as far as frame advantage goes. It certainly isn't "if it's glowing blue, you have advantage" in SCs other than SC4.

and SC5

Skilletor · Jan 25, 2012

CPS2 said:
and SC5

You're the only person I've seen who says that.

God's Beard said:
Other than Setsuka, I don't think I've ever liked any of the female characters in Soul.

My mains in the old games:

Soul Edge: Seigfried
Soul Calibur: Hwang
Soul Calibur 2: Assassin/Raphael/Astaroth
Soul Calibur 3: Raphael/Setsuka
Soul Calibur 4: Astaroth/Seigfried

I just think that most of the girls have really ugly fighting styles, or don't fit how I play. Leixia, Hilde and Viola all look beastly, but I don't want to play them. Speaking of ugly, definitely no Skullgirls. Even with Jojo's references.

I've always used Taki and Siegfried. In SC4 I switched to Setsuka as my main since Taki was so bad. I'm glad the style is in at least.

I'm going to learn Sieg or Hilde in SC5. Haven't decided who I want to focus on.

Kimosabae · Jan 25, 2012

SC2 definitely gave more frame advantage all around. Nothing like, say, Guilty Gear, but most characters had frame traps on block - in many cases enough to get 13 frame launchers off. Mitsu's 2 A+B, Cervy's bK and BT B+K come to mind. Those were moves where if you didn't know not to press buttons after blocking them, you died. SC3 scaled frame advantage back AFAIR, and SC4 went full blown retard. SC4 generally looks like what high level SC2 looked like due to step guard and 2G.

WC Maxi pretty much drove the "Maxi is Low Tier" bandwagon. There were definitely many that disagreed with him though and I was one of them.

soakrates · Jan 25, 2012

As someone who played a lot of SC2 during its heyday, I don't think SC5 is very similar to it. SC2 had things like step guard and the 2G glitch, which frequently turned high-level play into a rather boring exchange of safe, highly abuseable moves. It could be fun, but it really wasn't that great of a game.

Sure, SC5 moves at a much quicker pace than SC4 and has much better blockstun all around, but it isn't the "return to form" some have been expecting. Like I mentioned in another thread, SC5 is almost a kind of reboot. It requires you to be active on both offense and defense. It greatly rewards good reads and smart resource management. It punishes the passive, hold-block-and-react style of defense that worked so well in previous games (even SC4, which had a one-hit kill penalty for blocking too much, for fuck's sake).

So yeah, it benefits everyone to stop hoping or expecting SC5 to be the most similar to this or that game in the series. It's very much its own thing, and so far I like it a whole hell of a lot.

Master Thespian · Jan 25, 2012

Skilletor said:
You're the only person I've seen who says that.

Yup. BTW, don't like godlike Arney fool you, lol. Maxi was only good in SC1 (and probably SC5). He just wasn't as bad in SC2 as he was in SC3 and SC4.

SDBurton · Jan 25, 2012

Skilletor said:
You're the only person I've seen who says that.

I've always used Taki and Siegfried. In SC4 I switched to Setsuka as my main since Taki was so bad. I'm glad the style is in at least.

I'm going to learn Sieg or Hilde in SC5. Haven't decided who I want to focus on.

What happened to Natsu?

ThatCrazyGuy · Jan 25, 2012

I don't want a return to form of sc2. It got boring and safe. I played sc2 a lot, a lot. Was playing NM and Yoshi mostly. I want sc5 to be its own thing.

soakrates.

do you know if WS and WJ moves after landing from jumps are back? Also, can you not parry throws (like sc4 v1 had)?

Lren · Jan 25, 2012

This conversation recently took place with my brother and a friend of ours... "Hey you gonna get SCV?"

"No **** Soul Calibur, the only good one was the first since it didn't have gimmick characters. Soul Calibur should only have their own unique characters, shouldn't include Star Wars and Nintendo bs."

"Well you like Assassins Creed right?"

"Yeah it's one of my favorite series."

"You know Ezio is in it right?"

"..."

Yeah it kinda got quiet later as he stated that he might now buy it.

Skilletor · Jan 25, 2012

I'm hoping for SC5 to be completely different from past entries. I hated SC2 by the time its course had run, though I think it was amazing early in its life.

SDBurton said:
What happened to Natsu?

Oh, Natsu is FOR SURE my main squeeze. FOR SURE. I also want to use somebody with range. I've used Sieg for so long, he's an easy choice. I loved Hilde in SC4, but hated how you /should/ play her to be most effective.

Ithil · Jan 25, 2012

Monocle said:
Lately FilthieRich has dropped some hints that she might show up as DLC.

Bet she won't even be aged from 15.

Ithil · Jan 25, 2012

Lren said:
This conversation recently took place with my brother and a friend of ours... "Hey you gonna get SCV?"

"No **** Soul Calibur, the only good one was the first since it didn't have gimmick characters. Soul Calibur should only have their own unique characters, shouldn't include Star Wars and Nintendo bs."

"Well you like Assassins Creed right?"

"Yeah it's one of my favorite series."

"You know Ezio is in it right?"

"..."

Yeah it kinda got quiet later as he stated that he might now buy it.

As usual, complain about guest characters until it's one you like.

Same happens with SSB.

Skilletor · Jan 25, 2012

Ithil said:
Bet she won't even be aged from 15.

She'll age...enough to have a child who she taught the ways of a wind priestess. This daughter, sensing the growing evil in the world, runs off to fight it. She will be 15.

alstein · Jan 25, 2012

Lord-Audie said:
I'm very lukewarm on SC.

Amazed on the lack of comment of the combo breaker.

I got Lukewarm on the last char reveals (Talim not being in is still criminal in my eyes), but hearing the reports about gameplay- this game might be legitimately great, so I have to give it a chance. I'm not getting the LE though because of no Talim, gotta punish Namco a bit there.

If the online is great and they finish the game up via DLC- the chance of that is too good to pass up, even if I know 90% odds I end up disappointed.

Ithil · Jan 25, 2012

Skilletor said:
She'll age...enough to have a child who she taught the ways of a wind priestess. This daughter, sensing the growing evil in the world, runs off to fight it. She will be 15.

The fandom will be displeased. Namco will count dollars.

soakrates · Jan 25, 2012

Maxi was crazy good in SC1, OK in SC2, pretty good in SC3 and almost completely worthless in SC4. Just my take. In SC5 I think he'll be pretty solid.

ThatCrazyGuy said:
do you know if WS and WJ moves after landing from jumps are back? Also, can you not parry throws (like sc4 v1 had)?

No WL moves that I know of, and 99% sure throws can't be GI'd.

SDBurton · Jan 25, 2012

Skilletor said:
Oh, Natsu is FOR SURE my main squeeze. FOR SURE. I also want to use somebody with range. I've used Sieg for so long, he's an easy choice. I loved Hilde in SC4, but hated how you /should/ play her to be most effective.

I was about to say man. lol

Skilletor · Jan 25, 2012

SDBurton said:
I was about to say man. lol

Yeah, it's not even a question. I am ridiculously fucking hype for Natsu. She looks SO good.

Jay Shadow · Jan 25, 2012

Monocle said:
Lately FilthieRich has dropped some hints that she might show up as DLC.

Is it anything more concrete than "You have to wait and see"? Because he's said that about a lot of features that we know aren't in the game at all.

"God's Beard!" · Jan 25, 2012

soakrates said:
As someone who played a lot of SC2 during its heyday, I don't think SC5 is very similar to it. SC2 had things like step guard and the 2G glitch, which frequently turned high-level play into a rather boring exchange of safe, highly abuseable moves. It could be fun, but it really wasn't that great of a game.

Sure, SC5 moves at a much quicker pace than SC4 and has much better blockstun all around, but it isn't the "return to form" some have been expecting. Like I mentioned in another thread, SC5 is almost a kind of reboot. It requires you to be active on both offense and defense. It greatly rewards good reads and smart resource management. It punishes the passive, hold-block-and-react style of defense that worked so well in previous games (even SC4, which had a one-hit kill penalty for blocking too much, for fuck's sake).

So yeah, it benefits everyone to stop hoping or expecting SC5 to be the most similar to this or that game in the series. It's very much its own thing, and so far I like it a whole hell of a lot.

I wasn't expecting that statement to cause such an explosion. It was just my first impression of the pacing, I wasn't someone that paid attention to frame data back when I was playing SC2 :-(

I only ever played local tournaments and money matches for SC2 as a novelty(I didn't take competitive videogames seriously until I started playing 3s a lot and SSF4 streams started getting popular), and never played 3 or 4 seriously.

That said, I played many hundreds of hours of SC 1 and 2, both being among my favorite fighting games alongside Jojo's Bizarre Adventure and Virtua Fighter 4.

d0c_zaius · Jan 25, 2012

Terareflection said:
The SC2 comparison was grouped with his general impressions of the game if I am reading things right.

It's typical for Gods Beard to go all gushing with praise when a new fighting game comes out. He called MVC3 when it was released the most amazing RTS on the planet because meters were resource management or something.

So try not to pay the crazy statements too much attention. He is right about Jojos and VF4 being amazing though.

MiniBossBattle · Jan 25, 2012

I haven't bought Soul Caliber since the 1st on the PS2. Kinda curious about it but I will wait for some more previews/reviews of the game before I make my decision.

Dark Octave · Jan 25, 2012

Wait so this has a Mortal Kombat style story mode?

I had hoped that becomes standard in fighting games.

SouthernDragon · Jan 25, 2012

NeonZ said:
It kind of feels like Talim was just plain sabotaged... She was great and popular in SC2, but then they completely redid her moveset in SC3 and made it much worse, and they did little to fix her problems in SC4 (the one balance update after game release made her even worse, IIRC).

Even story/marketing-wise she received a lot of focus in SC2, but afterwards was just thrown away, with SC3 and SC4 not really doing much to promote her presence in general materials, and the in-game backstories basically saying that she was entirely pointless and did nearly nothing in the previous titles every time...

Fully agreed.

GrayFoxPL · Jan 25, 2012

Dark Octave said:
Wait so this has a Mortal Kombat style story mode?

I had hoped that becomes standard in fighting games.

From length of clips in youtube(I didn't watch them), I'd say it lasts 25 minutes, so no.

TDLink · Jan 25, 2012

GrayFoxPL said:
From length of clips in youtube(I didn't watch them), I'd say it lasts 25 minutes, so no.

The story mode is supposed to take around 3 hours. The guy who was uploading story mode vids didn't finish the entire mode (Namco asked him to take his vids down before he got -too- into it) and he was also skipping the non-cutscene storybook type of parts.

GrayFoxPL · Jan 25, 2012

TDLink said:
The story mode is supposed to take around 3 hours. The guy who was uploading story mode vids didn't finish the entire mode (Namco asked him to take his vids down before he got -too- into it) and he was also skipping the non-cutscene storybook type of parts.

Ah, reassuring to know, thanks.

SkylineRKR · Jan 25, 2012

MK style story mode is great (bar the 1 vs 2's), but I never ran through it more than once. It wasn't character specific either, so no reason to replay it as well.

Haven't seen anything of SCV's storymode yet, but I hope its more like BlazBlue.

scosher · Jan 25, 2012

SkylineRKR said:
MK style story mode is great (bar the 1 vs 2's), but I never ran through it more than once. It wasn't character specific either, so no reason to replay it as well.

Haven't seen anything of SCV's storymode yet, but I hope its more like BlazBlue.

I don't mind that at all. Replaying "story" mode for each character to see their ending was stupid and tedious. Much rather have a single, more developed story, even if it has little replay value, than some hashed together arcade mode with a 30 second FMV ending for each character.

Obviously in an ideal world with unlimited production costs and time, we could get a well-developed storyline for each character, but considering the number of characters in most fighting games nowadays, that just isn't possible. If they continued with that route, we'd end up getting more endings like "Ganryu confesses his love to Julia but gets rejected! THE END"

ThatCrazyGuy · Jan 25, 2012

Just played some SC4. Netcode still hot garbage like I remember.

Please namco, please let SC5 have good netcode.

sixteen-bit · Jan 25, 2012

ThatCrazyGuy said:
Just played some SC4. Netcode still hot garbage like I remember.

Please namco, please let SC5 have good netcode.

I hope Namco figures out this netcode shit before TTT2 Console.

Master Thespian · Jan 25, 2012

_dementia said:
I hope Namco figures out this netcode shit before TTT2 Console.

Namco still needs to figure out TTT2 before TTT2 console.

frogg609 · Jan 25, 2012

I felt burned big time by SCIV. This will be a wait and see game for me, though I am cautiously optimistic for it *crosses fingers*.

SiegfriedFM · Jan 25, 2012

Speaking of Soul Calibur II, I booted it up on the old Xbox to see how it looked through component. Pretty good, actually. I still think SC3 has the graphical edge due to another couple of years of development, but that extra resolution sure helps it look cleaner now.

Skilletor · Jan 25, 2012

SiegfriedFM said:
Speaking of Soul Calibur II, I booted it up on the old Xbox to see how it looked through component. Pretty good, actually. I still think SC3 has the graphical edge due to another couple of years of development, but that extra resolution sure helps it look cleaner now.

SC3 fails, though, because it has lots of framedrops. They were doing too much on the ps2. ps2 SC2 had slowdown as well, especially with Ivy.

SC3 would have been nice on GC or Xbox.

sixteen-bit · Jan 25, 2012

SiegfriedFM said:
Speaking of Soul Calibur II, I booted it up on the old Xbox to see how it looked through component. Pretty good, actually. I still think SC3 has the graphical edge due to another couple of years of development, but that extra resolution sure helps it look cleaner now.

http://i.imgur.com/yeXZH.jpg

One of the only 720p original Xbox games. Still looks good despite forcing 4:3 in that mode.

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