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Halo |OT10| The Calm Before The Storm

S

Steelyuhas

Member
UNKNOWN iXi said:
Steely, pls.

Are you comparing the quality of Halo 2 maps with Reach's? Imagine BTB in Reach without Forge World maps :[ - The role they fill should be left for later once we can determine what we're lacking from the developer maps, so the point is that they do fill a role. It would also be disappointing if these slick spaces were created for not at least one of each to appear in matchmaking.. That wouldn't be fair to the devs or to fans who would agree.
Click to expand...

Okay, I'll give you the BTB in Reach scenario, but that is a rare exception because Bungie LITERALLY didn't make maps for BTB in Reach. How that actually happened we'll never know, but that certainly doesn't look to be the case for Halo 4, so that "role" doesn't need to be filled.

Bottom line for me is that Forge maps significant impact my matchmaking experience in an absolutely negative way. I go into a one of 12 slayer playlists in Reach, and I can't even get a game on a map that the developer made because it's all a steaming pile of grey.

Yes, I'm very salty about Forge in MM. Heckfudealwithit.gif
 
D

Der Flatulator

Member
Computron said:
For what? Just to get rid of gimbal lock? Not worth it. Most people don't even know what it is and just get used to working around it as a quirk of Forge's.

I like your thinking though.
Click to expand...

Not just to to get rid of gimbal lock. Euler angles are horrible to work with. Say I want an object to point up (+y), forward (+z), with a quaternion you just set N_x to zero, and use Rotation to rotate about that axis. I'd have to toy with it, but it sounds like it could be a easier way to adjust objects precisely.

I am talking about the edit co-ordinates menu here, not general rotations, that should be aligned relative to the player, unless axis-snaps are on.
 
M

MrBig

Member
We need the SDK to iterate and optimize maps to the same caliber of maps 343 will launch the game with, there is hardly a point in comparing them in any reasonable debate. If the core design is good though you can still make a solid base for a map with forge and iterate on it to some degree.

Letters said:
Something seems off about that game in the videos, just doesn't seem the fun for some reason. But the people seem to be loving it and I love the games its gameplay style is inspired by (Deus Ex, Thief) so I put it on my Steam Wishlist, I'll be giving it a buy when it hits $20 in some crazy Amazon/GMG sale in a few weeks. Heard there's an HQ textures pack coming too.
Click to expand...

Only game besides H4 I've bought this year. Amazing game, more than worth $60.
 
A

ArchedThunder

Banned
Steelyuhas said:
Okay, I'll give you the BTB in Reach scenario, but that is a rare exception because Bungie LITERALLY didn't make maps for BTB in Reach. How that actually happened we'll never know, but that certainly doesn't look to be the case for Halo 4, so that "role" doesn't need to be filled.

Bottom line for me is that Forge maps significant impact my matchmaking experience in an absolutely negative way. I go into a one of 12 slayer playlists in Reach, and I can't even get a game on a map that the developer made because it's all a steaming pile of grey.

Yes, I'm very salty about Forge in MM. Heckfudealwithit.gif
Click to expand...

That is the problem of them putting too many in. It wouldn't be a problem if it only showed one forge map at a time in the voting. Sadly a lot of times it will show 3.
 
B

Bregmann Roche

Member
Steelyuhas said:
I was saying that some are equal in terms of actual map design, as a whole package (Forge and map design), they are still an inferior experience. You simply don't get the same immersive and visual experience in a Forge map.
Play a key role in matchmaking? Why? They don't need to. There weren't any Forge maps in Halo 2, and I think many would agree it had the most complete set of quality maps.
Click to expand...

If Halo 4 ships with Halo 2 quality maps and if the map packs contain as many quality maps as the Halo 2 map packs did, I will agree that forge in Halo 4 was a waste of time for the mainstream MP population.

In order to meet the needs of the various sub-communities that play Halo, the game needs more maps than Microsoft is willing to finance. That is the role that Forge fills: it allows the community to make maps for free that fill gaps across multiple playlists.

Steelyuhas said:
Bottom line for me is that Forge maps significant impact my matchmaking experience in an absolutely negative way. I go into a one of 12 slayer playlists in Reach, and I can't even get a game on a map that the developer made because it's all a steaming pile of grey.
Click to expand...
Again, I agree that there are WAY too many forge maps in several Reach playlists, but to say there should be none in Halo 4 is extreme.
 
B

bobs...onGaf

Member
Hydranockz said:
Except that we know they do.
Click to expand...

They do the best with what they are given.

Its not good enough.

I have said it a few times but I really hope the CC's have a shake up in how they operate before Halo 4 - either through there own internal processes, or are given more tools by 343. The last 2 years of Reach has shown that they dont really help as much as hinder matchmaking (in my opinion of course).

I think a base forge variant from the 3 forge world environments should be in standard multiplayer - but any community maps should be restricted to a community playlist. Allowing those maps to mix into general matchmaking has been tried in Halo 3 and Reach and I think for me at least the results have been far from desirable.

No offence to Fyre, but I remember him getting back into the CC's by pretty much demanding he got his place back after the switch over - I just don't think 343 has enough of a plan with what they want out of the CC's - it seems to have been a Bungie thing that didnt quite work out so well. Try something new 343!

Hydranockz said:
Read.

The maps you see in MM are chosen by 343, not the CCs. The 'great' forge maps we had in MM were a direct result of decisions made by 343. While the CCs could very well have shown 343 some of those maps, it's never been their choice what gets published. Even if CC doesn't think the map is any good, the map could still get put on a playlist.
Click to expand...

lets be honest - how many maps do 343 'find' themselves, that number has to be pretty tiny considering the other work they do. They might have the final say on what gets in - but how vigorously do they playtest the submissions?
 
S

Steelyuhas

Member
Bregmann Roche said:
If Halo 4 ships with Halo 2 quality maps and if the map packs contain as many quality maps as the Halo 2 map packs did, I will agree that forge in Halo 4 was a waste of time for the mainstream MP population.

In order to meet the needs of the various sub-communities that play Halo, the game needs more maps than Microsoft is willing to finance. That is the role that Forge fills: it allows the community to make maps for free that fill gaps across multiple playlists.
Click to expand...
Yes, it's great for sub-communities to play their stuff like Grifball, competition leagues like MLG, Forge creations of new gametypes, etc.

Nowhere do I see the need for the core experience to be infiltrated with Forge variants.

Bregmann Roche said:
Again, I agree that there are WAY too many forge maps in several Reach playlists, but to say there should be none in Halo 4 is extreme.
Click to expand...

How is it extreme to not want something that's bad? We should have a little bit of bad forged maps and that's okay?


This is the last I'll say on this subject for the time being. I obviously simply disagree with some other members' opinions of Forge in MM.
 
F

FyreWulff

Member
bobs99 ... said:
No offence to Fyre, but I remember him getting back into the CC's by pretty much demanding he got his place back after the switch over - I just don't think 343 has enough of a plan with what they want out of the CC's - it seems to have been a Bungie thing that didnt quite work out so well. Try something new 343!
Click to expand...

You're operating under the assumption that I was ever 'fired' in the first place.

343's old forums were based off your gamertag when you first used them. So I posted on Waypoint, my account showed up as 'FyreWulff Rex' even though my gamertag was now 'FyreWulff'. When they switched over to YaFF, they re-generated everyone's accounts and I ended up with a "new" account of FyreWulff with FyreWulff Rex left in limbo, which screwed up the transition since people were trying to send PMs to an account I could no longer access.

Since I kept getting sent in circles on who to talk to get it fixed, I stopped wasting my time and just posted publically so the maximum amount of eyes (and whomever was in charge of fixing it would fix it) would see it, and the problem was fixed. Strategery.
 
FUNKNOWN iXi

FUNKNOWN iXi

Member
Steelyuhas said:
This is the last I'll say on this subject for the time being. I obviously simply disagree with some other members' opinions of Forge in MM.
Click to expand...

But Steely that skybox/environment:

2vkit.png

Capture.PNG

Capture2.PNG
Click to expand...

Wouldn't be fair to deny fans of at least one map of that in matchmaking.. I mean I thought Complex might've been a Forge environment:

0.jpg
Click to expand...

And some here were even speculating that Abandon might've been a Forge environment:

Halo-4-Abandon.jpg
Click to expand...

I think it's safe to say the potential for Forge diversity has come a long way since Reach:

grey.jpg
Click to expand...


Same goes to the rest of you naysayers! <3

Now mind you, each environment has its own pieces with its own theme instead of one big grassy futstercluck of gray grey gray grey græy.
 
F

FyreWulff

Member
I think it should be noted that Relay is probably made with 4-split performance in mind. I expect maps that cater to 2-split to be more complex and have some varied scenery objects in it.

Those tube objects alone should save tons of budget, Reach was missing a true tube object and Halo 3's tubes were very short and small. So instead of 4 objects to make a hallway, you only need one now..

either way, there should always be at least one developer option in the top slot on the voting screen.

Halo-4-Abandon.jpg
Click to expand...

Needs more light bloom
 
E

ElzarTheBam

Member
At least that&#8217;s what David Fincher, the acclaimed director of The Social Network, seems to think. According to two Microsoft executives who have spoken exclusively to The Daily Beast, the auteur&#8217;s next big project isn&#8217;t a movie, or even a trailer for one. Instead, Fincher has flown to Prague to direct a mysterious, two-minute teaser for a videogame: Halo 4, the long-awaited sequel to Xbox&#8217;s blockbuster action trilogy.
Click to expand...

When Fincher&#8217;s trailer premieres on Late Night With Jimmy Fallon on Oct. 18
Click to expand...

From here.

Read the article, MS are going all out.
 
S

Shadders

Member
With FUD I had assumed we wouldn't be getting a live action trailer, I'm very glad to hear I assumed wrong.

The live action trailers do have a pretty high bar though. The pressure is on, Mr. Fincher.
 
Z

zap

Member
Oh wow. I've got to say, once 343 started opening the floodgates, the build up for Halo 4 has been insane. I almost forgive them for the GI article...
 
B

bobs...onGaf

Member
FyreWulff said:
You're operating under the assumption that I was ever 'fired' in the first place.

343's old forums were based off your gamertag when you first used them. So I posted on Waypoint, my account showed up as 'FyreWulff Rex' even though my gamertag was now 'FyreWulff'. When they switched over to YaFF, they re-generated everyone's accounts and I ended up with a "new" account of FyreWulff with FyreWulff Rex left in limbo, which screwed up the transition since people were trying to send PMs to an account I could no longer access.

Since I kept getting sent in circles on who to talk to get it fixed, I stopped wasting my time and just posted publically so the maximum amount of eyes (and whomever was in charge of fixing it would fix it) would see it, and the problem was fixed. Strategery.
Click to expand...

In a strange way that kind of proves my point that the cc's are a tool from the bungie days that 343 didn't really know how to use effectively.
 
Deputy Moonman

Deputy Moonman

Member
ArchedThunder said:
That is the problem of them putting too many in. It wouldn't be a problem if it only showed one forge map at a time in the voting. Sadly a lot of times it will show 3.
Click to expand...
I think map voting needs to be trimmed down to just two maps, with the "none of the above" option removed. If we're getting forge maps in matchmaking,which you know it will happen, they might as well have a standard developer-made map on top, and one forge map below. That makes the choices simple and you know that you are going to get the base maps as often as you get a forge map, if not more. And the default map if no one votes, or if there is a tie, always goes to the developer-made map. Or perhaps offer two developer made maps and one forge map?
FyreWulff said:
I think it should be noted that Relay is probably made with 4-split performance in mind. I expect maps that cater to 2-split to be more complex and have some varied scenery objects in it.

Those tube objects alone should save tons of budget, Reach was missing a true tube object and Halo 3's tubes were very short and small. So instead of 4 objects to make a hallway, you only need one now..

either way, there should always be at least one developer option in the top slot on the voting screen.



Needs more light bloom
Click to expand...
If you're saying that user created forge maps should never be the top option so that they're never chosen by default, I agree.
zap said:
Oh wow. I've got to say, once 343 started opening the floodgates, the build up for Halo 4 has been insane. I almost forgive them for the GI article...
Click to expand...
Which makes me wonder why this OT is called the "Calm Before the Storm." Nothing is calm about the few months right before a big game is released. Change it!
<3 Ghaleon
 
B

bobs...onGaf

Member
ElzarTheBam said:
Oh shit, I'm bailing.

See you guys Novemeber 6th.
Click to expand...

Yeah im tempted to say I am also out.

I will probably try and catch up every so often, so if someone does spoil something please edit the thread title or go back and edit before his posts to warn people.

I guess as long as im not up to date with the current posts, im less likely to be spoiled!
 
Deputy Moonman

Deputy Moonman

Member
FyreWulff said:
Yes. There's supposed to be some playlists in Reach set up this way. Not all of them though.
Click to expand...
That's cool. I would still love to be surprised with a revelation of some differently textured forge building blocks, but I'm not getting my hopes up. It was interesting that they said there are unique pieces to each of the 3 forge zones. I don't think it means new textures, but I wish it did.
 
F

FyreWulff

Member
Deputy Moonman said:
That's cool. I would still love to be surprised with a revelation of some differently textured forge building blocks, but I'm not getting my hopes up. It was interesting that they said there are unique pieces to each of the 3 forge zones. I don't think it means new textures, but I wish it did.
Click to expand...

I don't know if they did it any other playlists. I can only find it for BTB so far:

December Update said:
BTB voting options updated so that a developer-created map will always show up in slot one. We also rearranged and reweighted voting options (including new DLC).
Click to expand...
 
D

Duji

Member
Great post by MLG forum moderator b0b43 regarding Forge:
The main test for the new Forge is how well they have improved its performance. Things like frame rate, making sure dynamic lighting on objects is not causing them to lag (like the bridge pieces used on Asylum, which would cause the Snipe-to-snipe frame rate drops in Reach), fixing split screen issues, how well the lights work, etc.

If all these issues weren't a problem in Reach, then you would be seeing some beautiful 4v4 maps. The issues about colour completely go away when you can use lights and have the freedom to use whatever objects you want. A good example is any of Nexn's maps (Fileshare if anyone is interested) - these things are works of art and play great. The problem is they are designed for 1v1 since that is all you can afford to design for freely, and even still there are frame rate issues on some of these maps.

In terms of new features, Forge is kind of disappointing - it feels like a Forge 2.1 more than anything else. Most of the stuff from Reach plus a few extra features. But if they can improve on the performance side, then this will truly be a Forge 3.0. Unfortunately, this feels like too much to ask and there will be many of the same, disappointing limitations that Reach Forge was plagued with.
Click to expand...
I didn't know Reach maps could look that good until he posted that guy's file share.
 
S

Shadders

Member
New Info on the David Fincher Short: http://www.littleenglishhaloblog.com/2012/10/david-fincher-on-board-for-live-action.html?spref=tw

David Fincher (director of Se7en, Fight Club, The Social Network and Alien 3) and Tim Miller (Scott Pilgrim vs The World, The Girl with the Dragon Tattoo) have been in Prague filming an extended 2 minute live-action trailer for Halo 4.

"Fincher and Miller will help deliver an emotionally-charged look at the backstory of “Halo’s” iconic hero, the Master Chief."

The trailer will première on October 18th on Late Night With Jimmy Fallon, and will be uploaded to the Waypoint Youtube channel immediately after - about 6am BST. I'll post the video as soon as it's up.

"Titled “Scanned,” the trailer is an action-packed cinematic production that offers a captivating look at the backstory of Master Chief, and provides a glimpse of the new threat he will encounter in “Halo 4.” Filmed in Prague, “Scanned” continues the franchise’s tradition of expanding the universe through award-winning live-action stories, adding to the lore and anticipation for the next chapter in the landmark franchise"
Click to expand...
 
S

Shadders

Member
The discs look legit, but why is there nowhere in the box for the second disc? The spindle doesn't look like the ones they use for two discs.

Gabo, could you ask him not to leak campaign? It'd be a real shame for it to leak, especially this far out from launch.
 
I

IHaveIce

Banned
Shadders said:
The discs look legit, but why is there nowhere in the box for the second disc? The spindle doesn't look like the ones they use for two discs.

Gabo, could you ask him not to leak campaign? It'd be a real shame for it to leak, especially this far out from launch.
Click to expand...

you can see that? I would say the spindle looks exactly like my other Games with 2 discs.

I'm also surprised he didn't leak anything special for now(last map, last forge environment)

And yes, please no campaign spoilers, I don't want to be scared to click on any Halo 4 video and will see the ending
 
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