• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

5.1 Headphones ok for gaming?

S

Squeak

Member
Let's first get one thing clear: Headphones offer the absolute best quality sound you can have with commercial equipment. Nothing rivals headphones when comparing speakers and headphones of equal price, even with the most expensive equipment available.
They offer the most precise, fast and homogeneous sound.

Headphones have three limitations though.
1: Most recordings are made with speakers in mind, so the imaging is going to sound somewhat off with headphones.

2: They cannot reproduce very low bass nodes that are felt by the body and the inner ear.

3: You have to wear them and, unless you decide to go wireless have to have cable connecting you with the source.

This can be addressed though:

1. Can be addressed by either making recordings that are made with artificial ears (two mics put inside a foam head with average ears). Or (and this is the best way) you can send the sound through electronic filters that are custom tailored to your own ears.
We only have two ears. All we need to have full 3d sound is two transducers, and if you want to do immersion head tracking to adjust the sound to where your head is in the sound-field.

2. This is not a serious limitation as such sounds are relatively uncommon. But if desired you could add a deep end sub woofer (20Hz and down) or a "rumble chair".

3. Small wireless headphones are not yet of very good quality, but that is going to change in a few years. Until then for "sitting down" applications good supraural (around the ear) headphones with a long cable is very comfortable.
 
K

kiun

Member
Davidion said:
Driving the headphones = powering the headphones. Unknown to most people who are not headphone enthusiasts, many high-end headphones actually can't be sufficiently powered by certain sources. ie. When Mercutio mentioned that the ipod can't drive a Sennheiser HD650, it literally means that it can't output enough power to make the headphones sound like it's supposed to.
Click to expand...

This is a great thread, keep it up guys.

Got a question:
If I'm going to use the JVC SU-DH1, do I still need to use an amp to get the best out of the Sennheiser HD 595 ?
 
Q

Quagm1r3

Member
I'm interested in a pair these, but having just bought a PC, I don't have the money to buy a pair of good ones. :(

Maybe in a few years these'll drop by $100.
 
M

Mercutio

Member
kruskev said:
I have a grado sr-225 that I got from my cousin, I heard that it was a decent phone but I don't know whether it has a wide soundstage. Should I get a sennheiser to use with the SU-DH1?
Click to expand...

Those are excellent headphones. Generally speaking, Grados are known as having a very shallow soundstage (except the GS1000). But, if they sound good to you, why swap them for something that might sacrifice qualities you enjoy for a wide soundstage?

I don't know about getting something with the DH1. I assume it has a simple amp in it... it might not be powerful enough to drive a beefier Senn. An HD 555 or 595 maybe. I wouldn't limit your search to just one brand though. Even headphones in specific brands have different sounds depending on the build and type.

There are 3 general types to consider for most applications unless you have a special amp.

In ears, like Shure or Etymotics.

Closed headphones like the DT770-80 or A900

Open headphones, like the HD555 or HD650 (sennheisers).

Open and closed headphones have plusses and minuses.

An open headphone will generally have a wider soundstage and a very "open" sound as the sound does not bounce inside a plastic cup of some sort. Grados and Sennheisers are generally open, though Sennheiser does make some closed studio cans. You can't really use an open headphone in public.

Closed headphones block sound from getting in and out, but can sometimes be funky sounding in comparison to open cans because the sound is contained within the earcup. Better headphones won't have the general "canned" or tinny feeling, like the A900 or Beyerdynamics.


Brands to look at (I'm sure I'm forgetting some):

AKG
Grado
Beyerdynamic
Sennheiser
AudioTechnica
Etymotic (in ear)
Shure (in ear)
UlitmateEars (in ear)
Ultrasone (these have some 3D sound weirdness, based on the position of the driver and a plastic plate. There are some who like these a lot, and some who don't. I think Alienware rebadges one of these.)

Sony also used to have very good phones, but cut their high end lineup. The Sony R10 is still considered to be the "King of Headphones" by many. I think a good pair goes for $4k or more these days.

Please note the lack of Bose headphones on this list. I don't really care how you feel about them... when it comes to cost and performance, nobody who has a true passion for good sound will pay for Bose equipment. The $150 Triport is outmatched by the $60 Grado SR60 single-handedly, and just about anything is more balanced than the mid-less Quality Comfort. Simply, if you buy Bose, you're missing an awful lot of the actual sound signal.
 
S

Sho Nuff

Banned
DH1 has a simple amp in it, I use it as-is with my 555's. However, you can't crank them past my personal pain threshold (which is good, I imagine), but maybe some people would want a secondary amp.
 
M

Mercutio

Member
Sho Nuff said:
DH1 has a simple amp in it, I use it as-is with my 555's. However, you can't crank them past my personal pain threshold (which is good, I imagine), but maybe some people would want a secondary amp.
Click to expand...

Even at below your pain threshold, you can still lose your hearing quite easily with extended usage.

If you're really going to fork over for an amp though, don't put it in a chain with something like the DH1. An amp is about clean power and fidelity, and is only as good as its source. For the price of the DH1, I'd imagine the quality of the output is going to work against whatever niceties that a quality amp will provide. Generally: the fewer breaks in the signal chain, the better.
 
youta

youta

Member
I have the Sennheiser HD 590. Before I bought these I only used closed,
supra-aural headphones, which generally sound brighter. The HD 590
is an open, circum-aural headphone which sounds a bit warmer and is
also more comfortable, IMO.

Go to a store and try a few.
 
K

kiun

Member
Mercutio said:
Even at below your pain threshold, you can still lose your hearing quite easily with extended usage.

If you're really going to fork over for an amp though, don't put it in a chain with something like the DH1. An amp is about clean power and fidelity, and is only as good as its source. For the price of the DH1, I'd imagine the quality of the output is going to work against whatever niceties that a quality amp will provide. Generally: the fewer breaks in the signal chain, the better.
Click to expand...

any recommendation for a decently priced amp ? ($100ish)
 
M

Mifune

Mehmber
chaoticprout said:
All I want is the headphones that were coupled with MGS4 at E for all. I believe they were Sony's, god those were awesome ^-^
Click to expand...

Yes! I asked one of the Konami reps what they were using, and he couldn't give me a straight answer. Should have written down the product number.
 
M

Mercutio

Member
kiun said:
any recommendation for a decently priced amp ? ($100ish)
Click to expand...

There are always a flood of mint-tin CMOY amps on eBay. You can also build one yourself for even cheaper than the usual $60! Easy and educational. Mmmm.

As for a really kick ass amp otherwise, try one of these:

http://www.headphone.com/products/headphone-amps/the-mobile-line/

They're $150 to start, and $200 for one with an internal DAC (Digital to Analog Converter). Very, very nice sounding and very well built. They also have a cross feed switch. Cross feed will bleed sounds from the right speaker into the left, and vice versa. This is actually a good thing for some people: sounds that only hit one ear can be disorienting. Some recordings are made for speakers, and audio may be on only the left or right track. Crossfeed will sound more natural in many cases.

A note about the DAC model. I've used one with many games, and not had a problem. However, it is really mostly for music. I do not think it does 24 bit audio.
 
M

Mindlog

Member
http://headwize.com/ubb/showpage.php?fnum=3&tid=6339 My next amp will probably be one of those.

Quick and dirty pic of my CMoy :F

mycmoy.jpg
]E[
 
D

Davidion

Member
chaoticprout said:
All I want is the headphones that were coupled with MGS4 at E for all. I believe they were Sony's, god those were awesome ^-^
Click to expand...

If you have a picture, us headphone nerds can probably ID it. Was it silver or black?

Mercutio, nice tips you're dishing out here; it makes me miss the head-fi days.

Then again...:lol
 
R

Router

Hopsiah the Kanga-Jew
Dolby Headphone encoding is awesome. Especially when your walls are too thin to use your surround setup anymore.
 
K

KolosLazar16

Member
Davidion said:
If you have a picture, us headphone nerds can probably ID it. Was it silver or black?

Mercutio, nice tips you're dishing out here; it makes me miss the head-fi days.

Then again...:lol
Click to expand...

Black if I remember correctly, someone might correct that though. They didn't allow pictures of the booth sadly.
 
R

Router

Hopsiah the Kanga-Jew
Anyone use the SONY MDR-DS1000? They seem to be very popular in Japan. I would love a few impressions if anyone here has it.

aczero_01.jpg


060705mdrds1000.jpg


07021402.jpg
 
M

Mercutio

Member
Davidion said:
If you have a picture, us headphone nerds can probably ID it. Was it silver or black?

Mercutio, nice tips you're dishing out here; it makes me miss the head-fi days.

Then again...:lol
Click to expand...

Sorry about your wallet. :lol
 
K

KolosLazar16

Member
Router said:
Anyone use the SONY MDR-DS1000? They seem to be very popular in Japan. I would love a few impressions if anyone here has it.

aczero_01.jpg


060705mdrds1000.jpg


07021402.jpg
Click to expand...

Oh shit I think that may be the one Konami used for the MGS4 booths.
 
R

Router

Hopsiah the Kanga-Jew
chaoticprout said:
Oh shit I think that may be the one Konami used for the MGS4 booths.
Click to expand...


Really? It seems to be the only unit that Sony make and the few reviews I have found (Japanese) say that its very good.
 
F

FunnyBunny

Member
Sho Nuff said:
Try this. This has turned skeptics into rabid believers. At TGS, Kojima Productions was demoing MGS4 with one of these boxes attached to each PS3.
Click to expand...

That was awesome. As a married gamer in a small apartment, you may have just saved my marriage!
 
I

IronicallyTwisted

Banned
For clarification, as somebody looking for the absolute best in quality, is the JVC SU-DH1 the best surround emulator I am going to find? And is it absolutely better to use this with a premium set of headphones than it is to use an up market 5.1 headphone set?
 
M

Mercutio

Member
IronicallyTwisted said:
For clarification, as somebody looking for the absolute best in quality, is the JVC SU-DH1 the best surround emulator I am going to find? And is it absolutely better to use this with a premium set of headphones than it is to use an up market 5.1 headphone set?
Click to expand...

There have been others, but none of them are as good as a really, really good pair of headphones with a good soundstage. Again, I have a good 5.1 sound setup, and a 2.0 $200 headphone got me entirely through Bioshock really well. The game where things sneak up on you from whatever direction you're not looking.

There is no real upmarket 5.1 headphone. There's just no market for it.
 
T

TheGuardian

Member
Would using a set of good headphones with this reciever be a good option (it's supposed to have support for Dolby Headphone) ?

EDIT: WOW! just checked the price on this baby... 5.000€ is a LOT of money :p
 
T

terrene

Banned
Are these headphones really packing discrete speakers for each channel or is it TruSurround-esque trickery? If it's the latter, is that really worth the price premium?
 
M

Mercutio

Member
TheGuardian said:
Would using a set of good headphones with this reciever be a good option (it's supposed to have support for Dolby Headphone) ?

EDIT: WOW! just checked the price on this baby... 5.000€ is a LOT of money :p
Click to expand...

Here's the problem with amplifiers that have a headphone jack. Even in the priciest amp, it is a total gamble as to what sort of headphone jack you're going to get. At best, you get a glorified CMOY, and at worst... well... nothing you'd want to plug a headphone into.
 
M

Mindlog

Member
I ordered the JVC SU-DH1 and some optical cable from monoprice. Will post a review when I've had some time with it.

I also played Bioshock lights out with my Senns + CMoy hehe. The sound was great so here's hoping the JVC only adds to that experience. From what I read the 5.1 emulation is fantastic with games, not so much with other stuff. I'm leaning towards a cheap PPA design for my next amp. DIY of course.

but then the millets are right there in price too :eek:
 
B

battleMAUS

Member
kruskev said:
I have a grado sr-225 that I got from my cousin, I heard that it was a decent phone but I don't know whether it has a wide soundstage. Should I get a sennheiser to use with the SU-DH1?
Click to expand...

be careful, i wouldnt suggest grado for casual/gaming listening. theyre really bloody uncomfortable to some due to its bowl pad design. plus sr-225s will need a good amp to drive them. i think you may be better going sennheiser with the hd595 or similar model
 
D

dankir

Member
Router said:
Anyone use the SONY MDR-DS1000? They seem to be very popular in Japan. I would love a few impressions if anyone here has it.

aczero_01.jpg


060705mdrds1000.jpg


07021402.jpg
Click to expand...

I have the Pioneer SEDIR800C and they are friggin awesome, pretty hard to find now but kick ass.


IMG_2661.jpg



sorry for the big photo its the only one I have of my pair. You can use the wireless headphones provided or plug in air pair of headphones, shitty earbuds etc and still get the same effect and its very convincing. Has RCA/ SPDIF / Optical inputs and do Dolby Prologic, Digital, DTS the works.
 
B

BirdFlu

Banned
Wow holy fucking shit. Thanks to everyone with info about the JVC SU-DH1. That's the exact item I've been looking for forever.
 
Sp3eD

Sp3eD

0G M3mbeR
Caesar III said:
http://www.mueller2000.ch/holophonics/holo.html
just click the MP3 examples and use regular headphones! especially the virtual haircut!

it depends on the software and your soundcard. The X-Fi cards make surround sound like these mp3s
Click to expand...

Do you know of anymore Mp3's like these (perferably the production quality of the haircut one). I have been wowing my friends with that Mp3 all day long.

BTW works perfectly on my Ipod Touch /w default headphones.
 
M

Mindlog

Member
Check your pms.

I think the CD is dead and can't be bought anywhere. I know it's indie I am still checking around.
 
M

Mindlog

Member
Full review coming soon.

Early review. The JVC SU-DH1 is an excellent piece of equipment.

I took it apart (US version) and I'm guessing the reason US version don't have the power adapter ports is because they had no plans on releasing their adapter stateside. Otherwise the the board is perfectly prepared for a simple solder :lol: Even the plastic shroud has an indentation where the plug should be. I'm guessing a plug from http://www.mouser.com/catalog/632/971.pdf could be modified to work pretty easily, but a right angle plug such as http://www.alliedelec.com/Search/Pr...RA&DESC=712RA&R=932-2206&sid=47840E803D80617F could be fitted to it with even fewer complications. Just need to find small enough with the right current and right angle would make everything easier. I'll figure out what I'm doing when I've had a little more time, and I'll have more of my opinions on how good the sound is :p

but like I said in the begining, so far it seems to be well worth the money as long as you have a DD/optic source.
 
R

Router

Hopsiah the Kanga-Jew
Mindlog said:
Full review coming soon.

Early review. The JVC SU-DH1 is an excellent piece of equipment.

I took it apart (US version) and I'm guessing the reason US version don't have the power adapter ports is because they had no plans on releasing their adapter stateside. Otherwise the the board is perfectly prepared for a simple solder :lol: Even the plastic shroud has an indentation where the plug should be. I'm guessing a plug from http://www.mouser.com/catalog/632/971.pdf could be modified to work pretty easily, but a right angle plug such as http://www.alliedelec.com/Search/Pr...RA&DESC=712RA&R=932-2206&sid=47840E803D80617F could be fitted to it with even fewer complications. Just need to find small enough with the right current and right angle would make everything easier. I'll figure out what I'm doing when I've had a little more time, and I'll have more of my opinions on how good the sound is :p

but like I said in the begining, so far it seems to be well worth the money as long as you have a DD/optic source.
Click to expand...



Review and pictures!
 
P

PuppetSlave

Member
Just wanted to say that this thread made me go and pick up Sennheiser HD 555.

I am very happy with them, thank you :D

(My cats ate the cord on my old ones but now I realise how much they sucked anyway.)
 
B

BirdFlu

Banned
I also ordered the SU-DH1 and it's scheduled for delivery later this week. The order was delayed for a long time though which sucks. I'll write a review but my only headphones right now are Bose Triports. I'm saving up for some Audio Technica ATH-A900s but that might be a while.
 
R

Router

Hopsiah the Kanga-Jew
Commandr Keen said:
Anyone here ever use Astro Gaming A40's?

www.astrogaming.com

They aren't cheap, coming in at $250 but they use Dolby Headphone technology, have a detachable microphone boom, and allow complete mixing of game audio and chat audio.
Click to expand...


Yeah, one of the members here designed them. I have been looking for a review or two before I spent the money on them though.
 
T

Team Klimt

Member
Chorazin said:
I have Sennheiser HD 595's and even though they aren't 5.1, I can still detect distance and direction since they have such amazing sound quality. Great for movies, music, and games.
Click to expand...

Ordered these after browsing this thread and... HOLY SHIT! So worth the money it's not even funny. Thank you!
 
B

BirdFlu

Banned
Well I finally got my SU-DH1 in the mail today and holy mother of god. This is seriously the biggest upgrade in gaming since going HD. The details I pick up in COD4 and Bioshock are night and day. I would definitely recommend this to anyone looking for a headphone solution for consoles. Best 100 bucks I ever spent.

Next up: Audio Technica ATH-A900 cans
 
M

Mindlog

Member
I'm still working on my SU DH1 I haven't forgotten ;]

BUT the local store didn't have the part I want and I didn't have something offhand to get measurements as accurately as I'd like.

There's one more store to check and if they don't have it I'm just going to place a buckshot order on mouser.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

  • Poll
Surround sound vs headphones experience
2
74
3K
K' Dash replied
I'm in search of a soundbar + BT headphones
19
911
Giallo Corsa replied
What do you use for your gaming audio?
2 3
142
4K
Drew1440 replied
Visions of Mana Will Have “Highest Volume of Content” in the Series
News
13
781
Isa replied
Connecting wired headphones to a 4K TV that has no 3.5mm jack
Hardware
31
5K
Yerd replied
Top Bottom