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low-G · Aug 12, 2017

#1. The world eats carbs, yes. And like OP says they are less processed. Still, there is a lot of disease in the world caused by these carbs not in the form of obesity.

#2. I believe those that live by low carbs will have organ failures and crap due to the extreme diet.

Really I do think that carbs are actually bad, but like oxygen, they're necessary. Since they're so cheap the world uses too much of them, proportionally.

Angry Grimace · Aug 12, 2017

low-G said:
#1. The world eats carbs, yes. And like OP says they are less processed. Still, there is a lot of disease in the world caused by these carbs not in the form of obesity.

#2. I believe those that live by low carbs will have organ failures and crap due to the extreme diet.

Really I do think that carbs are actually bad, but like oxygen, they're necessary. Since they're so cheap the world uses too much of them, proportionally.

Is there any science whatsoever to back up the claim that disease in the world is caused by carbs

Lego Boss · Aug 12, 2017

Eggs are bad for you. Too much cholesterol

Red · Aug 12, 2017

Teletraan1 said:
I am not really treating them equally. You can use common sense to determine what is actually not so healthy for you. I am not going to complain about small amounts of fructose/sucrose that exist naturally in a bean vs drinking a coke that has it added for sweetening purposes. I guess I should have expanded on that since I was posting on the internet.

I can't take it for granted that everyone knows this, especially when someone in the thread didn't know sugar was a carb.

Beerman462 · Aug 12, 2017

Not all carbs are bad, but the ones you find in processed foods are. The amount of carbs in vegetables is minimal and backed by fiber.

rokkerkory · Aug 12, 2017

Simple carbs in general isn't good if you're trying to lose fat and be healthier. It's a general rule of thumb but not for everyone obviously.

My body feels like crap if I eat bread, cheese, pasta, etc so I stay away from it. I don't miss it at all even rice and I am asian I just substitute for farro etc.

tonysidaway · Aug 12, 2017

Resident_UA said:
Carbs craze is nothing when compared to gluten free insanity!

Both crazes drive healthy people away from good food.

Amikami · Aug 12, 2017

I love the shit out of carbs but it's too easy in the american diet to go way overboard on carbs/sugar. I recently started Keto and I'm going pretty hard with 20 or less carbs a day but plan on raising it slowly to 50, 100, and then 150 a day when I reach a goal weight. I'm also doing IF and still do gym 3 days a week.

This sort of diet isn't for everyone but calling is psuedo science is really not accurate. Before calling it that do some research of your own. Keto doesn't say carbs are bad but ask you to allow your body to adapt to other measures of energy sourcing. The carb you do get should be from leafy greens and some fruit. You need carbs. Admittedly, not everyone does thier research before doing a non carb diet and have no idea what they're really doing. But in our modern diets it's really easy to overload on it and its a personal decision to just cut a lot of it out cold turkey.

You can call it a diet for people that are lazy, but not every man and woman has the luxury of time and energy to work out enough to burn off the excessive amount of carbs they consume in even a moderate carb diet. Work all day at a desk, kids, etc.

High sugar/carb diets puts you at risk for a number of diseases. Diabetes being the most obvious. That's not to say carbs are bad. Moderation is key but it gets harder and harder. Everything has its pros and cons. More than anything, anybody who goes on any diet or lifestyle change should do their own research and consult a couple of dietricians. I say couple because even they have different opinions on dieting, especially as a function of their age.

MrMephistoX · Aug 12, 2017

daviyoung said:
It's just a diet. Works for some, doesn't work for others.

Diets are totally genetic in my experience, you kind of have to figure out what works for your body...overall Calorie Counting apps like Lose It seem to work for me. It makes a lot more sense to have whatever you want within moderation than totally cutting out foods you love from your diet. You'd have high cholesterol but you coul technically eat like several slices of pizza every day and supplement with veggies nuts and fruit for snacks (one for each meal) and see results with exercise as long as you keep the calorie count below 1700 or so.

All Hail C-Webb · Aug 12, 2017

I fucking love carbs, but Keto is life changing.
No more hunger, extra energy, clearer mind, only takes 1 drink to get drunk, and so easy to lose weight.
We incorporate plenty of vegetables, but do miss out on fruits.

I don't think that people who haven't been in Ketosis realize what it's like, and how there can be more to the formula than calories in, calories out.

I don't think the average person really has an idea of how many unnecessary carbs they consume each day.

Amikami said:
I love the shit out of carbs but it's too easy in the american diet to go way overboard on carbs/sugar. I recently started Keto and I'm going pretty hard with 20 or less carbs a day but plan on raising it slowly to 50, 100, and then 150 a day when I reach a goal weight. I'm also doing IF and still do gym 3 days a week.

This sort of diet isn't for everyone but calling is psuedo science is really not accurate. Before calling it that do some research of your own. Keto doesn't say carbs are bad but ask you to allow your body to adapt to other measures of energy sourcing. The carb you do get should be from leafy greens and some fruit. You need carbs. Admittedly, not everyone does thier research before doing a non carb diet and have no idea what they're really doing. But in our modern diets it's really easy to overload on it and its a personal decision to just cut a lot of it out cold turkey.

You can call it a diet for people that are lazy, but not every man and woman has the luxury of time and energy to work out enough to burn off the excessive amount of carbs they consume in even a moderate carb diet. Work all day at a desk, kids, etc.

High sugar/carb diets puts you at risk for a number of diseases. Diabetes being the most obvious. That's not to say carbs are bad. Moderation is key but it gets harder and harder. Everything has its pros and cons. More than anything, anybody who goes on any diet or lifestyle change should do their own research and consult a couple of dietricians. I say couple because even they have different opinions on dieting, especially as a function of their age.

You said it better than I could.
How do you incorporate fruits? We'll occasionally have a few berries, or a couple bites of something bigger, but it's more of a treat.

Angry Grimace · Aug 12, 2017

Amikami said:
I love the shit out of carbs but it's too easy in the american diet to go way overboard on carbs/sugar. I recently started Keto and I'm going pretty hard with 20 or less carbs a day but plan on raising it slowly to 50, 100, and then 150 a day when I reach a goal weight. I'm also doing IF and still do gym 3 days a week.

This sort of diet isn't for everyone but calling is psuedo science is really not accurate. Before calling it that do some research of your own. Keto doesn't say carbs are bad but ask you to allow your body to adapt to other measures of energy sourcing. The carb you do get should be from leafy greens and some fruit. You need carbs. Admittedly, not everyone does thier research before doing a non carb diet and have no idea what they're really doing. But in our modern diets it's really easy to overload on it and its a personal decision to just cut a lot of it out cold turkey.

You can call it a diet for people that are lazy, but not every man and woman has the luxury of time and energy to work out enough to burn off the excessive amount of carbs they consume in even a moderate carb diet. Work all day at a desk, kids, etc.

High sugar/carb diets puts you at risk for a number of diseases. Diabetes being the most obvious. That's not to say carbs are bad. Moderation is key but it gets harder and harder. Everything has its pros and cons. More than anything, anybody who goes on any diet or lifestyle change should do their own research and consult a couple of dietricians. I say couple because even they have different opinions on dieting, especially as a function of their age.

Almost all of the actual research does say it's psuedo-science because unless you're gravely overweight to the point your weight is a far worse concern than nutritionally poisoning yourself, it's worse for you to eat a very-high protein or very-low carb diet.

MrMephistoX said:
Diets are totally genetic in my experience, you kind of have to figure out what works for your body...overall Calorie Counting apps like Lose It seem to work for me. It makes a lot more sense to have whatever you want within moderation than totally cutting out foods you love from your diet. You'd have high cholesterol but you coul technically eat like several slices of pizza every day and supplement with veggies nuts and fruit for snacks (one for each meal) and see results with exercise as long as you keep the calorie count below 1700 or so.

What people don't get is that all fad diets like low-carb/no fat/whatever are based on calories-in, calories-out to begin with.

The difference between a fad diet and just doing calories in calories out is that the latter is actually sustainable. It's easy to continually make simple life choices like "I've got a dinner date tonight maybe I should just have a garden salad for lunch" versus "I've got a dinner date tonight I better make sure to instruct the kitchen staff to remove anything offensive from all of my dishes and definitely not have any drinks with dinner."

Doing a fad diet isn't good because changing your eating habits should not be a short-term solution to something. Maintaining CICO is something that's plausible to be done in perpetuity without feeling like you're missing out on things.

velociraptor · Aug 12, 2017

I eat a lot of carbs to help me bulk. I burn a lot of calories with my current routine so I need all the calories possible.

The fact is, the most important aspect is firstly calories, then macronutrients, and then micronutrients.

You can be healthy with carbs. You can be healthy without carbs.

I eat 300g of carbs every single day - a lot of is actually from milk, and have done so for a long long time. My blood work is perfect. Good fasting and postprandial glucose, and my cholesterol and triglycerides are within a good range.

MrMephistoX · Aug 12, 2017

Angry Grimace said:
Almost all of the actual research does say it's psuedo-science because unless you're gravely overweight to the point your weight is a far worse concern than nutritionally poisoning yourself, it's worse for you to eat a very-high protein or very-low carb diet.

What people don't get is that all fad diets like low-carb/no fat/whatever are based on calories-in, calories-out to begin with.

The difference between a fad diet and just doing calories in calories out is that the latter is actually sustainable. It's easy to continually make simple life choices like "I've got a dinner date tonight maybe I should just have a garden salad for lunch" versus "I've got a dinner date tonight I better make sure to instruct the kitchen staff to remove anything offensive from all of my dishes and definitely not have any drinks with dinner."

Doing a fad diet isn't good because changing your eating habits should not be a short-term solution to something. Maintaining CICO is something that's plausible to be done in perpetuity without feeling like you're missing out on things.

Exactly also not sure if this is good or bad but you can technically have something like scotch with a low calorie count of 60 per serving whereas red wine is going to be 140 calories per serving and a dark beer is more like 200 so you make that choice if you want to have fun or need to unwind...have a normal dinner but do that salad or smoothie for lunch.

Omnii-chan · Aug 12, 2017

I don't look into it too much, just try to avoid things which are actually bad, like too much sugar in a day, trans fats, palm oil, etc.

Amikami · Aug 12, 2017

All Hail C-Webb said:
I fucking love carbs, but Keto is life changing.
No more hunger, extra energy, clearer mind, only takes 1 drink to get drunk, and so easy to lose weight.
We incorporate plenty of vegetables, but do miss out on fruits.

I don't think that people who haven't been in Ketosis realize what it's like, and how there can be more to the formula than calories in, calories out.

I don't think the average person really has an idea of how many unnecessary carbs they consume each day.

You said it better than I could.
How do you incorporate fruits? We'll occasionally have a few berries, or a couple bites of something bigger, but it's more of a treat.

I was going to actually quote you a bold everything. The alcohol part is especially amazing. But yes, I like to cut up a couple strawberries and blackberries and use a bit of whip for desert as a treat if I have enough carbs left over. So good.

Angry Grimace said:
Almost all of the actual research does say it's psuedo-science because unless you're gravely overweight to the point your weight is a far worse concern than nutritionally poisoning yourself, it's worse for you to eat a very-high protein or very-low carb diet.

What people don't get is that all fad diets like low-carb/no fat/whatever are based on calories-in, calories-out to begin with.

The difference between a fad diet and just doing calories in calories out is that the latter is actually sustainable because it's easy to make a life choice between "I'm going to dinner with my family tonight maybe I should just have a garden salad for lunch" than "I'm going to dinner with my family tonight, better make sure I instruct the kitchen staff to remove anything offensive from all of my dishes."

I think it's important to first identify that their are different ketogenic diets out there. The one that I follow (I'm using the keto reddit as my main resource) is different from atkins and southbeach. There is no high protein/ no fat. It's low carb, moderate protein, and if you are still hungry, you can substitute that with some fat.

Fat takes longer to burn which means less hunger spikes and it makes IF easier. Reducing carbs is like stopping cigs. You get cravings but it becomes easier to avoid a lot of junk food. Because of this reduced appetite and cravings, a lot of people will do "lazy keto" and eat some protein and salad or whatever when they feel hungry and naturally clock in below or at their calorie count. But this actually isn't recommended.

It's recommended that you track your macros including you protein as not to eat to little or too much. I personal issue for me is not eating enough so I have to force myself to eat some chicken and veggies. It's very much still a calorie in calorie out diet. People who do their research knows this.

Your definition of a fad diet is strange. People, in an attempt to lose weight should do whatever works for them. Have you actually looked at the macros of a lot of restaurant food. It's pretty high, and depending on your sex and height, it's much easier to go over. Plenty of places do have keto friendly options and asking for a special order is fine as long as it's not extreme. You just sound bitter now. I did laugh at "please remove all offensive items from my plate" though and some alcohol is allowed. I'm not an aggressive vegan.

Keto is also plenty sustainable but again, it's not for everyone.

Malakai · Aug 12, 2017

Angry Grimace said:
Almost all of the actual research does say it's psuedo-science because unless you're gravely overweight to the point your weight is a far worse concern than nutritionally poisoning yourself, it's worse for you to eat a very-high protein or very-low carb diet.

What people don't get is that all fad diets like low-carb/no fat/whatever are based on calories-in, calories-out to begin with.

The difference between a fad diet and just doing calories in calories out is that the latter is actually sustainable. It's easy to continually make simple life choices like "I've got a dinner date tonight maybe I should just have a garden salad for lunch" versus "I've got a dinner date tonight I better make sure to instruct the kitchen staff to remove anything offensive from all of my dishes and definitely not have any drinks with dinner."

Doing a fad diet isn't good because changing your eating habits should not be a short-term solution to something. Maintaining CICO is something that's plausible to be done in perpetuity without feeling like you're missing out on things.

Human beings aren't closed systems. So, the thinking of calories in and out needs to die out completely.

TerryVincent · Aug 12, 2017

You guys really need to understand that keto/low carb isn't all about weight loss. For a lot of people on its about being able to control your hunger, controlling your diabetes, and lowering your blood pressure. Just being able to lower your A1C without the use of medications is HUGE for a lot of people.

umop_3pisdn · Aug 12, 2017

I went low carb because I noticed that blood sugar fluctuations throughout the day were fucking with my energy levels a lot and making my emotions more volatile. It's not a cure all but it's making enough of a difference that I'm not at all considering going back, despite the extra time I have to spend cooking to maintain the diet.

Breakage · Aug 12, 2017

Resident_UA said:
Carbs craze is nothing when compared to gluten free insanity!

What's behind this?; it seems to be incredibly popular among the middle-class. People saying they can't eat this or that because it's got gluten. I don't remember it being a problem 15 years ago.

Amikami · Aug 12, 2017

TerryVincent said:
You guys really need to understand that keto/low carb isn't all about weight loss. For a lot of people on its about being able to control your hunger, controlling your diabetes, and lowering your blood pressure. Just being able to lower your A1C without the use of medications is HUGE for a lot of people.

This too is very important.

deadscreensky · Aug 12, 2017

All Hail C-Webb said:
I fucking love carbs, but Keto is life changing.
No more hunger, extra energy, clearer mind, only takes 1 drink to get drunk, and so easy to lose weight.
We incorporate plenty of vegetables, but do miss out on fruits.

I don't think that people who haven't been in Ketosis realize what it's like, and how there can be more to the formula than calories in, calories out.

To add to what you're saying, I started low carb to lose weight but I've kept it up purely because of how good it feels. (I drink way too much caffeine nowadays to lose any additional weight anyway, ha.) When I do occasionally eat carbs I feel bloated (which makes sense because it makes kidneys reabsorb sodium, right?), I feel slow and tired. Something like pizza is delicious, but I'll take sleeping better, having a clearer mind and stronger memory, minimal hunger, and just these energy levels and general good feeling over that with no real debate. Once you get over that initial couple weeks hump, low carb actually feels really great so it's easy to maintain.

This makes this thread particularly funny. Oh, I should feel bloated, have low energy, gain fat, and get a little mentally slow because you think "the hate for carbs" is silly? Eh, I think I'll just stick with what's been working for me, thanks.

(For reference I basically just try to stay under 20g of non-fiber carbs every day.)

Angry Grimace · Aug 12, 2017

TerryVincent said:
You guys really need to understand that keto/low carb isn't all about weight loss. For a lot of people on its about being able to control your hunger, controlling your diabetes, and lowering your blood pressure. Just being able to lower your A1C without the use of medications is HUGE for a lot of people.

Keto isn't a long term sustainable diet either willpower-wise or for your health.

Amikami · Aug 12, 2017

Angry Grimace said:
Keto isn't a long term sustainable diet either willpower-wise or for your health.

I don't know how you have the authority to tell people if they have the willpower to sustain a lifestyle or diet.

As for health, I'm always looking for new information and resources. Can you tell me specifically how health can be negatively affected by the longterm ketogenic diet I described above and give me some resources?

Angry Grimace · Aug 12, 2017

Amikami said:
I don't know how you have the authority to tell people if they have the willpower to sustain a lifestyle or diet.

As for health, I'm always looking for new information and resources. Can you tell me specifically how health can be negatively affected by the longterm ketogenic diet I described above and give me some resources?

http://www.cnn.com/2015/10/30/health/low-fat-low-carb-diets-failures/index.html

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15007396

http://annals.org/aim/article/74601...all-cause-cause-specific-mortality-two-cohort

http://web.archive.org/web/20120125...nsmedicine.org/diabetes/news/highprotein.html

http://www.webmd.com/diet/guide/high-protein-low-carbohydrate-diets

low-G · Aug 12, 2017

Angry Grimace said:
Is there any science whatsoever to back up the claim that disease in the world is caused by carbs

Uhh, I said a lot of, I'll give you one for free: diabetes. You don't have to be overweight to have non-genetic diabetes.

Auctopus · Aug 12, 2017

Sugar is the real demon.

AppleSeason · Aug 12, 2017

I try not to abuse pasta / rice during the week, or leave them for workout days.

Poppy · Aug 12, 2017

most people would be immensely better served by worrying about doing more physical activity than all the worrying they do about which foods to eat

but yes, sugar is bad for you and carbohydrates essentially devolve into the exact same thing, so to avoid diabetes it is good to have less of it

same with alcohol

Meatfist · Aug 12, 2017

Keto worked great for me as far as weight loss and energy goes, but it's pretty damn unsustainable when it comes to cost and prep time.

At the end of the day, I don't think that carbs=evil is necessarily true, but I try to avoid them unless they are paired with fiber (fruits, vegetables, whole grains)

Low-fat diets are shit though, you're hungry all the time

Angry Grimace · Aug 12, 2017

low-G said:
Uhh, I said a lot of, I'll give you one for free: diabetes. You don't have to be overweight to have non-genetic diabetes.

Diabetes Type 2 isn't "caused" by eating carbs. I mean, I guess there's a certain insane troll logic to that argument.

Poppy said:
most people would be immensely better served by worrying about doing more physical activity than all the worrying they do about which foods to eat

but yes, sugar is bad for you and carbohydrates essentially devolve into the exact same thing, so to avoid diabetes it is good to have less of it

This is in fact demonstrably incorrect for the vast majority of overweight people unless they're 200 calories over maintenance every day.

deadscreensky · Aug 12, 2017

Angry Grimace said:
http://www.cnn.com/2015/10/30/health/low-fat-low-carb-diets-failures/index.html

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15007396

I stopped after checking your first two examples, because both of them fail to show anything of what you're suggesting. The first link makes it clear that the various diets weren't even necessarily followed. That second link's 'low carb' diet consisted of 40% carbohydrates.

Next time you might be better served just leading with a couple of real examples instead of a bunch of Google search results you don't even look through.

Poppy · Aug 12, 2017

Angry Grimace said:
This is in fact demonstrably incorrect for the vast majority of overweight people unless they're 200 calories over maintenance every day.

if you're talking about just getting your weight down sure. obviously eating less will help with that. but even then i think people worry too much about what diet plan to use rather than just simple calorie math

whatsinaname · Aug 12, 2017

Poppy said:
most people would be immensely better served by worrying about doing more physical activity than all the worrying they do about which foods to eat

but yes, sugar is bad for you and carbohydrates essentially devolve into the exact same thing, so to avoid diabetes it is good to have less of it

same with alcohol

I would say it is the complete opposite. Easier to not eat that snickers bar/croissant than run for 30/45 minutes.

Angry Grimace · Aug 12, 2017

deadscreensky said:
I stopped after checking your first two examples, because both of them fail to show anything of what you're suggesting. The first link makes it clear that the various diets weren't even necessarily followed. That second link's 'low carb' diet consisted of 40% carbohydrates.

Next time you might be better served just leading with a couple of real examples instead of a bunch of Google search results you don't even look through.

I have an alternate theory you stopped checking for the same reason fad diets make their creators lots of money and the same reason you apparently never looked it up in the first place.

Fun fact: Dr. Atkins died at 260 pounds.

grumble · Aug 12, 2017

Simple carbohydrates have a fair amount of evidence behind them linking them to a number of 'diseases of civilization'. They don't tend to be very filling, they cause blood sugar instability, they promote insulin resistance, and are often lacking in micronutrients. They're fine if eaten in moderation and combined with a lifestyle that encourages that energy to be used, but when combined with our extreme laziness can wreak havoc over time.

Like always, whole, minimally processed foods - few liquid calories - moderate meat, moderate fat, moderate complex carbs - little sugar. Combine with an active lifestyle that includes an hour of daily exercise, both cardio and resistance. You'll be fine.

Resident_UA · Aug 12, 2017

Breakage said:
What's behind this?; it seems to be incredibly popular among the middle-class. People saying they can't eat this or that because it's got gluten. I don't remember it being a problem 15 years ago.

to be fair like 1% of people might have gluten problem (similar to lactose intolerance), but everyone just wants to blame all their problems on one ingridient...

grumble · Aug 12, 2017

Angry Grimace said:
I have an alternate theory you stopped checking for the same reason fad diets make their creators lots of money and the same reason you never looked it up in the first place.

Fun fact: Dr. Atkins died at 260 pounds.

He died at 260 with massive fluid retention. Heart failure was caused by a disease he picked up in the developing world. Retained fluids due to illness is not the same as obesity.

Angry Grimace · Aug 12, 2017

Here's the problem, Low Carb Guy loves to get on Gluten Free Guy, despite the fact that there's an equal amount of evidence both of these are fad diets.

Fad diets are simple to analyze: if they sound too good to be true, it's because they are. Like literally everything else in the entire world in the history of mankind.

Poppy · Aug 12, 2017

whatsinaname said:
I would say it is the complete opposite. Easier to not eat that snickers bar/croissant than run for 30/45 minutes.

i feel like this is all talking past each other

but yes, you are right, it is easier not to eat something bad for you than to burn the calories in it

TerryVincent · Aug 12, 2017

Angry Grimace said:
http://www.cnn.com/2015/10/30/health/low-fat-low-carb-diets-failures/index.html

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15007396

http://annals.org/aim/article/74601...all-cause-cause-specific-mortality-two-cohort

http://web.archive.org/web/20120125...nsmedicine.org/diabetes/news/highprotein.html

http://www.webmd.com/diet/guide/high-protein-low-carbohydrate-diets

This is nonsense. Nothing posted here is a keto diet.

low-G · Aug 12, 2017

Angry Grimace said:
Diabetes Type 2 isn't "caused" by eating carbs. I mean, I guess there's a certain insane troll logic to that argument.

Resorting to ad hominem via non sequitur? Obviously you have no actual counterpoints nor understanding, as you've failed to refute the facts I've presented. Just give up.

Angry Grimace · Aug 12, 2017

grumble said:
He died at 260 with massive fluid retention. Heart failure was caused by a disease he picked up in the developing world. Retained fluids due to illness is not the same as obesity.

His wife claimed this, but his death certificate listed him as obese. The problem is that the coroner doesn't have an empire to maintain that might be ruined by him being 260 pounds when he died.

Poppy · Aug 12, 2017

low-G said:
Resorting to ad hominem via non sequitur? Obviously you have no actual counterpoints nor understanding, as you've failed to refute the facts I've presented. Just give up.

this is one of the most obnoxious internet things i have read in a minute

low-G · Aug 12, 2017

Poppy said:
this is one of the most obnoxious internet things i have read in a minute

And the personal attack wasn't? Really?

All Hail C-Webb · Aug 12, 2017

Angry Grimace said:
http://www.cnn.com/2015/10/30/health/low-fat-low-carb-diets-failures/index.html

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15007396

http://annals.org/aim/article/74601...all-cause-cause-specific-mortality-two-cohort

http://web.archive.org/web/20120125...nsmedicine.org/diabetes/news/highprotein.html

http://www.webmd.com/diet/guide/high-protein-low-carbohydrate-diets

I didn't notice a single mention of ketosis in any of those articles. Not to mention all but one was about high protein, low carb, which isn't even what we're talking about.
If you read threads in any keto community you will see how positive everybody is. How they talk about how their life has changed. It isn't a fad diet to them, it's a way of life.

I had tried to talk my wife into doing Keto with me for almost a year, but she thought it was crazy. She would cook for me, and hated the extra work, and had no interest in learning more. Then she found out she was borderline prediabetic, and from her research, Keto became option 1.
She couldn't stick to any diet for more than a few days, now she's been on Keto for over 3 months. Her blood sugar levels are great, she's rarely hungry (I need to remind her to eat each morning), has more energy than I've seen from her in years, and won't even consider taking a break from it.

Last night she had a craving for Chinese, so we had chicken, broccoli, spinach, and mushrooms in brown sauce (asked for no corn starch or sugar), and it was fantastic. It really doesn't feel like a diet.

Have any other Keto people realized how different food tastes now? It's amazing how things that I used to think tasted like crap now taste incredible.

Angry Grimace · Aug 12, 2017

low-G said:
Resorting to ad hominem via non sequitur? Obviously you have no actual counterpoints nor understanding, as you've failed to refute the facts I've presented. Just give up.

You have not presented any facts whatsoever. You only have three posts in this thread, two of which are you getting mad at me, and none of which contain any facts at all. In fact, you literally qualified all of those statements as your personal belief in the only post you made which isn't just you getting mad that you were questioned:

low-G said:
#1. The world eats carbs, yes. And like OP says they are less processed. Still, there is a lot of disease in the world caused by these carbs not in the form of obesity.

#2. I believe those that live by low carbs will have organ failures and crap due to the extreme diet.

Really I do think that carbs are actually bad, but like oxygen, they're necessary. Since they're so cheap the world uses too much of them, proportionally.

You can't argue "carbs are bad and cause diabetes" and then demand people who question your argument (which, incidentally is not a fact) disprove your completely unsupported claim. Based on the posts you've made, the only way I could even assemble an argument is the following:

1) The world eats carbs, yes
2) People have diabetes
3) Carbs cause diabetes

Do you think this is a good argument? You're not presenting a general link between the consumption of carbs as a general proposition and diabetes. The only way this claim is defensible as far as I can tell is saying "massive consumption of carbs to the point of obesity is linked to diabetes," except the problem with that is that obesity itself is causally linked to diabetes and not specific to carbohydrate consumption.

The Lamp · Aug 12, 2017

Razorback PT said:
Nutrition science is a mess. The same thing goes for saying processed foods are inherently unhealthy. It completely depends on the process.

Most people trying to comment on nutrition science on the internet I'm sure don't have any background as registered dietitians or nutritionists ¯_(&#12484

_/¯

It's all chemistry. Carbs aren't bad, but a high sugar diet (which is most Americans) has some detrimental effects over the long term with metabolic disease, and sugar is a TYPE of carb, a short-chain carbohydrate (simple) which doesn't require much energy to be readily used in the body.

UnemployedVillain · Aug 12, 2017

Poppy said:
most people would be immensely better served by worrying about doing more physical activity than all the worrying they do about which foods to eat

but yes, sugar is bad for you and carbohydrates essentially devolve into the exact same thing, so to avoid diabetes it is good to have less of it

same with alcohol

Exercise and dieting serve someway different purposes. Getting "in shape" won't necessarily lead to the level of weight loss an actual diet would, but it brings its own set of benefits healthwise. Similarly, dieting can make you healthier, but won't exactly increase your stamina or strength in the way exercise will.

Also you expalantion of sugar vs carbs (which is a bit incorrect as sugar is just a simple carb) is a bit off. They both break down into the same thing, but one does so slower and causes less of an insulin spike (which promotes fat production)

low-G · Aug 12, 2017

Angry Grimace said:
You have not presented any facts whatsoever. You only have three posts in this thread, two of which are you getting mad at me, and none of which contain any facts at all. In fact, you literally qualified all of those statements as your personal belief in the only post you made which isn't just you getting mad that you were questioned:

You can't argue "carbs are bad and cause diabetes" and then demand people who question your argument (which, incidentally is not a fact) disprove your completely unsupported claim. Based on the posts you've made, the only way I could even assemble an argument is the following:

1) The world eats carbs, yes
2) People have diabetes
3) Carbs cause diabetes

Do you think this is a good argument? You're not presenting a general link between the consumption of carbs as a general proposition and diabetes.

I didn't bother posting any sources because it's common knowledge. You don't have to source that the sky may be blue.

But here's a Harvard medical source with 17 references that by extrapolation (if it causes some it causes some) supports my statement "a lot of disease in the world caused by these carbs not in the form of obesity"

All Hail C-Webb · Aug 12, 2017

Angry Grimace said:
His wife claimed this, but his death certificate listed him as obese. The problem is that the coroner doesn't have an empire to maintain that might be ruined by him being 260 pounds when he died.

According to his BMI, he was obese, and BMI is about as in depth as 'calories in, calories out.'

The whole low-carb empire thing is insane.

First, most people who use Keto as a way of life are not following Atkins (most atkins products aren't even very good for Keto.)
Second, the real empire is the 'low calorie, high sugar' food industry. There is no Keto industry, shit, it's really difficult to find Keto friendly options outside, and they're certainly never marketed as such.
Walk into a supermarket and look at all the 100 calorie snack packs, and shit like that. That's the empire that is fighting to convince you that Calories in is what matters, and that the surge in diabetes is not at all related..

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