Support NeoGAF

Vena · Sep 16, 2015

DarkLordMalik said:
I don't understand where this budget stuff is coming from? Did we ever get a budget comparison between original and sequel, or was it always a low-budget effort?

Bravely Second might be a failure in Japan but it remains to be seen what it can achieve in WW sales.

My point is that it is just too soon to start calling it a successful IP. Actually, it is too soon to call it a dead IP since its fate is still uncertain. But if SE has shown anything, it is that they don't have any interest in continuing it. Otherwise I don't think they would have developed Project Setsuna, which targets the same demographic as Bravely Default.

The IP is dead because, even as per the example of Default and its successes in the west, SE doesn't care about it. Nintendo were the ones who made it a success in the west by publishing and marketing it heavily as a must have RPG for the 3DS and throw back to FF of old.

As for the budget discussions, the sequel is built on reused assets. That, a good budget, does not make.

I'm only half joking when I say that Nintendo should just take over the IP, lol.

madstarr12 · Sep 16, 2015

Big drop for Metal Bomb Solid. PS4 a huge drop too. Wii U saved. Wonder how long Mario Maker will keep Wii U up above 10K. Mario Kart 8 holding well despite the lack of bundles.

Eolz · Sep 16, 2015

Worse SW sales than I expected, but pretty good week for the WiiU overall!

Now, I still think that burying Bravely is a bit too soon. The first one got good sales in the west, who knows for the second one. S-E can perfectly decides about the future on the series, or even Nintendo could decide to partly fund a third one.

ethomaz · Sep 16, 2015

madstarr12 said:
Big drop for Metal Bomb Solid. PS4 a huge drop too. Wii U saved. Wonder how long Mario Maker will keep Wii U up above 10K. Mario Kart 8 holding well despite the lack of bundles.

Same drop than MGSIV (85%).

Timeaisis · Sep 16, 2015

The Wii U bump is surprising. About what I expected for Mario Maker. I think it'll have pretty good legs. It's not a the kind of game that does gangbusters it's first week and then dies, it seems more of a steady seller kind of game.

Anyway, Wii U bump is quite good. PS4 is looking bad again. If MGSV can't save it in Japan, only FFXV remains.

Waluigilicious · Sep 16, 2015

Smash Wii U barely made the famitsu top 30

horuhe · Sep 16, 2015

madstarr12 said:
Mario Kart 8 holding well despite the lack of bundles.

There will be Mario Kart 8 for at least a month. I mean, the bundle hasn't sold its last shipment so there are some on store shelves.

sörine · Sep 16, 2015

DarkLordMalik said:
The IPs you mentioned all had multiple spin-offs, sequels released so far. Of course, not all of these were successful and some of them are dead now, or resurrected.

I will be honest, do you think Bravely Default can prove itself an IP that can sustain multiple sequels and spin-offs?

With the right managing yes I do think Bravely Default could be a sustainably successful franchise. Bravely Second was sort of a good example of how not to do that though.

Busaiku · Sep 16, 2015

KillerMan91 said:
Still wondering why Bamco is skipping Japan with PS4 version of Tales of Zestria. I mean it wouldn't set charts on fire (especially if it doesn't have any extra content) but it still should sell decently enough (at least something like 100k(?)). Not to mention it could make small amount of people to switch to PS4 before the next mainline game comes. Weird all around. Passing free money.

100k is very optimistic.
All the late PS4 ports so far have fine terribly.
And this is a game with terrible word of mouth.

MatrixMan.EXE · Sep 16, 2015

Vena said:
I'm only half joking when I say that Nintendo should just take over the IP, lol.

They should though, you're right.

Tadaima · Sep 16, 2015

Good start for Super Mario Maker. It's going to have incredible legs, since this game is basically Super Mario Bros. + Minecraft combined as one. Kids will be playing this for months. The baseline of the Wii U will be raised.

Nirolak · Sep 16, 2015

It would be very distinctly against Square Enix's interests to give up their IPs, especially for an RPG (but really for anything), given that would put more competition against their own games in the market.

sörine · Sep 16, 2015

Nirolak said:
It would be very distinctly against Square Enix's interests to give up their IPs, especially for an RPG (but really for anything), given that would put more competition against their own games in the market.

BD in particular is also pretty closely tied to FF, so an IP transfer or sale would be especially tricky I think.

A franchise publishing deal with Nintendo (a la Bayonetta or Fatal Frame) would be doable though. And it's not like SE ha much of their own content in Nintendo's space to compete with either at this point.

Oregano · Sep 16, 2015

I'm not sure Nintendo could justify fully taking it on either. They already have a ton of RPG IPs to use.

Åkami · Sep 16, 2015

#FE is getting a collectors edition, a bundle on the bussiest week of the year for Nintendo hardware and is getting a concert next year., iirc.

I wouldn't say Nintendo won't push it, no like I expect it to do amazing either, I remember close to the rereveal producers of the game mention that they plan to make a franchise out of it, this is after the buyout of Atlus.

Vena · Sep 16, 2015

Nirolak said:
It would be very distinctly against Square Enix's interests to give up their IPs, especially for an RPG (but really for anything), given that would put more competition against their own games in the market.

This is why I only say it partially in jest, because I realize the complexities of the situation with regards to the IP and the fact that, as Sorine mentioned, it is very "close to home" in the experience it provides and represents.

It's not in SE's interest to relinquish the brand (I don't even think they'd give up production allocation authority over it if it were to continue even if Nintendo were willing to fund it) because its self-competition and, in a way, could potentially make them look bad. Imagine the image you'd have if your own projects were seen as lesser by fans and others to a title you yourself showed no strong will to fund and left it to someone else, even if the IP were yours.

Oregano said:
I'm not sure Nintendo could justify fully taking it on either. They already have a ton of RPG IPs to use.

Of course, I think Nintendo's better interest would be to expand Xenoblade and Performa (and Fire Emblem and others on the 3DS), and their Mario RPG series as a more casual brand to attract wider audiences. The latter, as it stands, seems to be getting a decent "plan" put behind it and has the FE brand associated with it. The former is more for that "prestige" filling in of the library amongst enthusiasts of the genre. But if Nintendo wants to build a strong jRPG base or one at all, they need more than just two titles... XCX could have been the best game ever made but the desire to buy a console for all of one game for a JRPG fan would be lacking.

As was said before, if I want to play jRPGs and even if I wanted to play Xenoblade... I can just buy a 3DS. Not even considering 3rd Party presence on the 3DS, Nintendo itself supports it with far more RPG-like offerings than the WiiU as well as just about every other experience you could find on the WiiU as Oregano said before.

Oregano · Sep 16, 2015

I was thinking more along the lines of Golden Sun. They'd be much served trying to resurrect that franchise.

Nirolak · Sep 16, 2015

If they wanted more Bravely Default games to be made, they'd just fund them. Square Enix is a very wealthy company.

They're still even very frequently updating their mobile game and selling merchandise.

Beyond this, Square Enix is known for digging up their IPs for future use after they have them in a locker for a while. They take them out when they feel they're interested in using them again. For evidence of this, see Star Ocean, Nier, Mana, SaGa, and Dissidia.

There's no incentive for Square to hand off Bravely Default to anyone.

If Nintendo - or anyone else for that manner - wants a product like Bravely Default, they can simply go to Silicon and offer to publish a similar game as a different IP, the same way that Spike Chunsoft is effectively publishing a new Valkyrie Profile, and they have to pay $0 for licensing.

Like the game even started development as a Final Fantasy title and was rebranded. The whole idea of the product was that the brand wasn't the important part, but rather the concepts it was going for.

This is, of course, assuming Silicon is not currently making games they'd rather be making for other companies instead.

AniHawk · Sep 16, 2015

duckroll said:
Solid start for Mario Maker. Splatoon already showed (and continues to show) that the WiiU platform is one which sells software through word of mouth, so it should work well for a social driven product like this. MGSV is tracking behind both MGS4 and PW for now, but it'll be interesting to see where it is in a few weeks.

if this trend continues, konami might not make any more

Nirolak · Sep 16, 2015

So I went to look something up for my post, and I think we might be operating under an unclear translation.

Siliconera said:
Next, Gamer asks if the Bravely developers could share a little more on what we can expect to see next from the series.

“Hmm… yes, we’re currently thinking about whether a sequel would be more appropriate or if a completely new title would be more appropriate,” Asano replies. “This is currently a hot topic among [the development team].”

“We’re thinking about all kinds of things, like what kind of things are requested, and getting feedback from fans,” added assistant producer Shinji Takahashi.

Read more at http://www.siliconera.com/2015/05/2...e-a-completely-new-title/#mCzas6pzyOQt4y5l.99

Originally all we had was the second paragraph there, but the first and third imply they're talking about direct sequels versus Final Fantasy style sequels - as opposed to a brand new game versus another Bravely title.

Pennywise83 · Sep 16, 2015

SQEX is also a very shortsighted company. The company was not able to retain the fanbase of plenty of their franchises; e.g. Kingdom Hearts, one of SQEX's most successful games in the world (actually THE most successful in US); Mana, with plenty of useless and bad timed spin-offs; TWEWY, with a mobile version no one asked for; hell, even Chocobo games were selling well, and the company wasn't able to expand the franchise. This attitude can be found in the "new" strategy, with games like Nier 2, Project Setsuna, Star Ocean 5, Mana remake which aren't boded to sell much worldwide.

hiska-kun · Sep 16, 2015

Let's go to Tokyo Game Show business day with GamesMaya.

DrWong · Sep 16, 2015

hiska-kun said:
Let's go to Tokyo Game Show business day with GamesMaya.

Enjoy your business trip :]

ZhugeEX · Sep 16, 2015

AniHawk said:
if this trend continues, konami might not make any more

We'll see more METAL GEAR content and full games for sure.

Unless they want to collapse.

Nirolak · Sep 16, 2015

Konami does not need Metal Gear games for financial stability.

Jigorath · Sep 16, 2015

Pennywise83 said:
This attitude can be found in the "new" strategy, with games like Nier 2, Project Setsuna, Star Ocean 5, Mana remake which aren't boded to sell much worldwide.

And what's wrong with Nier 2, Project Setsuna, and SO5?

Pennywise83 · Sep 16, 2015

Jigorath said:
And what's wrong with Nier 2, Project Setsuna, and SO5?

I don't see them as viable projects (I might be wrong, that's just my opinion). Star Ocean might have some traction in Japan - though not worldiwde, but the other two will be DOA in all territories (Nier was a cult game but sold quite poorly everywhere); Project Setsuna might be saved by the fact that it'll likely be a budget (possibly digital) release.

noshten · Sep 16, 2015

Nirolak said:
Konami does not need Metal Gear games for financial stability.

Metal Gear Pachinko is a game?

Mpl90 · Sep 16, 2015

Nirolak said:
Quite possibly, but there's not that much to lose, especially when the Wii U is likely not making much (if any) money.

In one of the interviews about the system, Iwata talked about how home consoles are more popular in the West and handhelds are more popular in Japan, and noted how it would be useful to have a platform that fit both needs. I will try to look up the interview.

This is certainly part of why they have not done this historically. But again, Nintendo was actively paying big chunks of money to have stores keep Wii Us on shelves in the West, so losing the Wii U's hardware sales is not meaningful if you're not making any money on them (or possibly even losing money overall for the generation).

Yes, certainly. The goal will presumably to be to milk more money out of each individual customer through selling them more games and DLC and season passes and vanity microtransactions and etc. Nintendo has already been walking down that road.

Hey, this is where my interest/obsession for NX news helps!

Q: To the extent that you can share with us today, I would like you to give us a hint about NX, the dedicated video game system for which you said you would announce the details in 2016. Is it possible that you will both announce it and release it in 2016? Will it be a replacement for any of the existing dedicated game systems, or will it become your third pillar, so to say? Or, in the first place, should we abandon the current notion of thinking about home consoles and handheld devices separately? Also, does the "N" in "NX" stand for "Nintendo"? Does this codename "NX" have any specific meaning?

A: [...]Though I cannot confirm when it will be launched or any other details of the system, since I have confirmed that it will be "a dedicated video game platform with a brand new concept," it should mean that we do not intend it to become a simple "replacement" for Nintendo 3DS or Wii U.

Your question also included the "current notion of thinking about home consoles and handheld devices." When it comes to how dedicated game systems are being played, the situations have become rather different, especially between Japan and overseas. Since we are always thinking about how to create a new platform that will be accepted by as many people around the world as possible, we would like to offer to them "a dedicated video game platform with a brand new concept" by taking into consideration various factors, including the playing environments that differ by country. This is all that I can confirm today.

http://www.nintendo.co.jp/ir/en/library/events/150508qa/02.html

ZhugeEX · Sep 16, 2015

Las7 said:
Metal Gear Pachinko is a game?

It's the only way they can survive. They have no other choice.

ZSaberLink · Sep 16, 2015

http://gonintendo.com/stories/242782-shuriken-sentai-ninninger-coming-to-3ds

TETSUDOU NIPPON VI - BOXART

http://gonintendo.com/stories/242783-tetsudou-nippon-vi-boxart

Were we aware of these 3DS games either? Still have no idea what half these titles are about though.

BronzeWolf · Sep 16, 2015

SQEX Japanese branch strategies is not that stupid, but it fails to innovate. They are becoming so risk adverse, while maintaining very healthy profits. This will bite them in the ass

sörine · Sep 16, 2015

Nirolak said:
So I went to look something up for my post, and I think we might be operating under an unclear translation.

Originally all we had was the second paragraph there, but the first and third imply they're talking about direct sequels versus Final Fantasy style sequels - as opposed to a brand new game versus another Bravely title.

This makes me wonder if we might ever see a "Bravely Default II" with entirely different scenario/characters someday. Might be a better way to go after the Japanese response to Second.

duckroll · Sep 16, 2015

What's the difference between S-E making games like Nier 2, Project Setsuna, and SO5, and Nintendo making games like Sin and Punishment 2, Wonderful 101, The Devil's Third, and Xenoblade? Is Nintendo making games like that also short-sighted?

Oregano · Sep 16, 2015

sörine;179052920 said:
This makes me wonder if we might ever see a "Bravely Default II" with entirely different scenario/characters someday. Might be a better way to go after the Japanese response to Second.

I did once suggest that as a way to revitalize the brand if they chose to. I'd probably wait for the 3DS' successor too(which might not take long).

EDIT:

duckroll said:
What's the difference between S-E making games like Nier 2, Project Setsuna, and SO5, and Nintendo making games like Sin and Punishment 2, Wonderful 101, The Devil's Third, and Xenoblade? Is Nintendo making games like that also short-sighted?

Well I don't agree with Pennywise but there is a difference that Nintendo is trying to get people to buy hardware so even unprofitable games might be worthwhile if people buy into their ecosystem.

Oh wait I forgot SE wants people to buy the PS4

Eolz · Sep 16, 2015

Lol that spoiler

Jigorath · Sep 16, 2015

Pennywise83 said:
I don't see them as viable projects (I might be wrong, that's just my opinion). Star Ocean might have some traction in Japan - though not worldiwde, but the other two will be DOA in all territories (Nier was a cult game but sold quite poorly everywhere); Project Setsuna might be saved by the fact that it'll likely be a budget (possibly digital) release.

idk why you think any of them are automatic failures. If Child of Light can find success then I'm sure Setsuna can too. Star Ocean 5 doesn't need to sell millions of copies cause it looks like a mid-size budget RPG. Nier 2 is the riskiest one but that's a straight PS4 exclusive so they probably got some funding from Sony to reduce the risk.

Oregano said:
Oh wait I forgot SE wants people to buy the PS4

The vast majority of 3rd party publishers want consumers to buy a PS4. More consoles sold = more people to sell games to. Some of ya'll think this is exclusive to Square for some reason.

Mory Dunz · Sep 16, 2015

About RPGs, Nintendo seems to have one that's almost guaranteed to sell 1 million on home consoles, despite the install base.

It'd be nice to get another one of those....

duckroll said:
What's the difference between S-E making games like Nier 2, Project Setsuna, and SO5, and Nintendo making games like Sin and Punishment 2, Wonderful 101, The Devil's Third, and Xenoblade? Is Nintendo making games like that also short-sighted?

Hey, why does Xeno have to be on that list?

Oregano · Sep 16, 2015

Mory Dunz said:
About RPGs, Nintendo seems to have one that's almost guaranteed to sell 1 million on home consoles, despite the install base.

It'd be nice to get another one of those....

Hey, why does Xeno have to be on that list?

Well Star Ocean is still a bigger IP than Xenoblade.

duckroll · Sep 16, 2015

Mory Dunz said:
Hey, why does Xeno have to be on that list?

Because SO5 will probably sell more than that?

Pennywise83 · Sep 16, 2015

duckroll said:
What's the difference between S-E making games like Nier 2, Project Setsuna, and SO5, and Nintendo making games like Sin and Punishment 2, Wonderful 101, The Devil's Third, and Xenoblade? Is Nintendo making games like that also short-sighted?

Yes, if we're talking about TW101 and Devil's Third - completely useless and shortsighted investments (though the latter is not even developed internally and Nintendo might well just have published it); Xenoblade was actually a good investment - it became one of the most acclaimed jRPG of the past generation and improve the reputation of the company among jRPG fans (and the sequel is boded to sell better in Western markets). Sin and Punishment 2 was surely a bad investment - though it didn't scream "high development budget & plenty of advertisement".

Then, of course, one has also to consider that Nintendo is also interested in selling hw and some of those games might have been greenlited or published to attract a different userbase. Sometimes it works (e.g. Fatal Frame), sometimes it doesn't.

duckroll said:
Because SO5 will probably sell more than that?

Probably. Is it going to sell more, or much more, than SO4 (the game sold around 400k units in Japan)? We'll see. XCX is surely going to sell more than XC in Western markets (It won't take much, of course - according to internal source, XC sold according to expectations in Europe).

Jigorath · Sep 16, 2015

Also, games like SO5 and Project Setsuna can help build consumer confidence in Square to deliver timely and quality RPGS, cause their big budget projects keep taking forever.

MatrixMan.EXE · Sep 16, 2015

Pennywise83 said:
I don't see them as viable projects (I might be wrong, that's just my opinion). Star Ocean might have some traction in Japan - though not worldiwde, but the other two will be DOA in all territories (Nier was a cult game but sold quite poorly everywhere); Project Setsuna might be saved by the fact that it'll likely be a budget (possibly digital) release.

What does viable product even mean in this case? I don't really understand the point you're trying to make, when Square Enix isn't the only one announcing such projects.

Pennywise83 · Sep 16, 2015

OrbitalMatrix said:
What does viable product even mean in this case? I don't really understand the point you're trying to make, when Square Enix isn't the only one announcing such projects.

We were talking about SQEX - of course the other companies have plenty of risky and DOA projects (we're actually seeing those quite often in weekly charts). Btw, SO5 might sell less than SO4 (SQEX is interested in IP growth); we don't know much about Nier 2 but Nier was an utter flop in Western markets and sold ok in Japan; Project Setsuna might be the breakthrough IP they're hoping (they want it to become a big IP) - thought we must see how SQEX is going to sell the game.

PS: my point was simply that those games, among others, are not viable projects. I hope this opinion hasn't offended anyone, and we can still discuss about it.

MatrixMan.EXE · Sep 16, 2015

Pennywise83 said:
We were talking about SQEX - of course the other companies have plenty of risky and DOA projects (we're actually seeing those quite often in weekly charts). Btw, SO5 might sell less than SO4 (SQEX is interested in IP growth); we don't know much about Nier 2 but Nier was an utter flop in Western markets and sold ok in Japan; Project Setsuna might be the breakthrough IP they're hoping (they want it to become a big IP) - thought we must see how SQEX is going to sell the game.

PS: my point was simply that those games, among others, are not viable projects. I hope this opinion hasn't offended anyone, and we can still discuss about it.

Still not really understanding what viable means in the context you're using it. If it wasn't a viable project and SQEX didn't see some kind of gain from making it then they wouldn't green light it surely?

Immediate sales aren't always the sole objective behind the development of a game, as you can probably see with Dragon Quest XI getting a PS4 SKU. If Square Enix want people to buy a PS4, then a collective high volume of JRPG's back to back MAY be the ticket in salvaging a little bit of whats left of the console space in Japan, while also throwing western fans a bone.

It make not work at all, but at this point, it's probably worth a shot in their eyes. You don't build a market by sitting there ummm-ing and arrgh-ing after all.

horuhe · Sep 17, 2015

Today at COMG! Ishikawa (the one that is not in Niigata) were launched the new colors of PSVita. They expect this day to be quite busy.

Refreshment.01 · Sep 17, 2015

So what rank do you expect the new colors will take the Vita in terms of hardware sales?

The 3ds put quite low numbers this week, shouldn't expect the Pokemon spinoff to push those numbers considerably.

Eolz · Sep 17, 2015

Refreshment.01 said:
So what rank do you expect the new colors will take the Vita in terms of hardware sales?

The 3ds put quite low numbers this week, shouldn't expect the Pokemon spinoff to push those numbers considerably.

Second or third?
It basically depends on how much the PS4 and WiiU drop again imo. Vita will probably be around 18k as well.

Åkami · Sep 17, 2015

Pretty sure is this that made Daigasso return to the top 30, nevermind the date, it was announced some time ago.

On a side note, Minecraft Vita is now over 600k retail + digital on Famitsu.

Sakura · Sep 17, 2015

Alrus said:
Well if we're talking rpgs, Xenoblade X was a high budget sequel to a very well received game and it tanked pretty badly. I don't see how #FE could do better.

Xenoblade was at 103k after its first two weeks.
Xenoblade X was at 97k. Lower sure, but I'm not really sure I would say it tanked pretty badly compared to the "well received" game it is a sequel of.

Nirolak said:
I'm not expecting a huge push here. What kind of sales are people expecting? 100K? 200K?

I expect 40-80k first week maybe around 100k LTD.

Support NeoGAF

Media Create Sales: Week 37, 2015 (Sep 07 - Sep 13)

Member

Member

Member

Banned

Member

Member

Member

Banned

Member

Member

Member

Mrgrgr

Banned

Member

Member

Member

Member

Mrgrgr

Member

Mrgrgr

Banned

Member

Member

Banned

Mrgrgr

Banned

Banned

Member

Two copies sold? That's not a bomb guys, stop trolling!!!

Banned

Media Create Maven

Banned

Banned

Member

Member

Member

Banned

Member

Member

Member

Banned

Banned

Member

Banned

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Similar threads