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How Call of Duty: WW2 handles swastikas and female soldiers

Kinyou

Member
Uh, no. The soldiers look like Hollywood actors.
Uh, no. They look like people dressed as soldiers.

Lol.
Divisions_plain_main.png
I guess that emphasizes how different this is from Call of duty 2
 
To be honest, in games like of Day of Defeat, I always felt kind of bad playing as an Axis sniper picking off Allied forces running op the beach. It's just a game, but still. I've been to Point du Hoc, Omaha Beach, the American Memorial, Dead Mans Corner etc. during a holiday in Normandy. Saw the shit that happened. My grandfather had to do forced labor in Germany.

I'm happy the multiplayer part isn't that serious.
 

Volphied

Member
As someone who's family was directly affected by WWII, I think it's pretty ridiculous they are censoring it for MP, but I suppose I am understanding why, you can say the problem is that they have to censor in the first place (some people will promote nazism and take everything too far)

As someone who lives in a country that was directly affected by nazi occupation, I'm absolutely fine with them removing it from the ridiculous multiplayer, while keeping it in the much more serious singleplayer.
 
As someone who lives in a country that was directly affected by nazi occupation, I'm absolutely fine with them removing it from the ridiculous multiplayer, while keeping it in the much more serious singleplayer.

I can agree on that


Especially if that image above my post is real
 

Iztli

Member
I'll post this here since my thread was shutdown because it came off like I was arguing in favor for playing as nazis... thats my fault for not being clear on where I stand. Still, this is something that has been my mind with the recent controversies of Wolfenstein and this game.

With the recent rise of neo nazis and hatred of Feminism. I've noticed that any game which doesn't let you control/play as Nazis and games like Wolfenstein where you kill Nazis, are being bombarded with negativity. I believe the reason developers are doing this is to take away the option for these people to feel validated and prideful while playing as Nazis.

In an E3 interview with Eurogamer, Sledgehammer Games co-founder Michael Condrey said --

"In campaign, we need to balance the authenticity with the respect for the fact 100 million people died in the darkest days of humanity. So, you will see the swastika in the campaign, using our military historian to make sure it's authentic, tasteful and respectful.

"But in our global community of multiplayer and zombies players, we've chosen deliberately not to include that. We want the community to play together. We want to be respectful of local customs and laws around the world. And frankly it's a dark symbol with a lot of emotion behind it we don't feel matches our multiplayer experience."

To those on the extreme right and neo nazis they see this has SWJ trash. They don't care about the meaning behind the swastika. They only care about being able to control these characters. The political climate is different at the present compared to what it was when COD 1 and 2 released, we have to acknowledge the fact that the extreme right has more power and has gained traction. We have the take that into account and realize that developers have also factored that into their gameplay designs. Remember, the singleplayer campaign is going to be historically accurate but that is not the issue... the issue is that you cant play as Nazis. For that I commend the developers for not giving them a playground where they can jubilate.
 

Nepenthe

Member
They know their audience and are not about to help promote an environment where shitheads can make an even more hostile online environment for minorities.

Good on them for placing the play environment above "historical accuracy."
 

pastrami

Member
This seems like a reasonable compromise, but I'm not shocked that people are still pushing back against this. After BF1, I can't take realism arguments seriously.
 

Kinyou

Member
Where do you?
Accurate outfits, helmets, gear. Probably some tear and wear.
I find it fair to say that Call of duty 2 had realistic looking soldiers

I mean, is it really such an outrageous claim that Call off duty used to have accurate inagery in the MP? Like I already said, i dont even care for it, but I can see that others would.
 

AYF 001

Member
You have to understand that since WAW came out society has gotten a lot more intolerant in the name of tolerance. Rofl
Clever, but not that clever:
Karl Popper said:
Less well known is the paradox of tolerance: Unlimited tolerance must lead to the disappearance of tolerance. If we extend unlimited tolerance even to those who are intolerant, if we are not prepared to defend a tolerant society against the onslaught of the intolerant, then the tolerant will be destroyed, and tolerance with them.

As for the thread topic, if there's a choice that'll simultaneously work towards inclusion of women and PoC in a country with deep race issues and a subculture full of sexism, while also upsetting adolescent white supremacists on the internet, I say go for it.
 

Crossing Eden

Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
Uh, no. They look like people dressed as soldiers.


I guess that emphasizes how different this is from Call of duty 2
Even with the color COD uses standard hollywood stylization when it comes to the costume design. The only thing they nail is weapon design and even those have unrealistic amounts of ammo and reload times for the sake of game balance.

Goddammit lol
Someone photoshop a swastika so that it can now be deemed realistic™
 

nbraun80

Member
Where exactly do you define a soldier looking realistic or not?

What are you trying to prove at this point exactly? They've already shown multiple images of current COD games where your character is just a dress up doll got whatever silly fashion you unlock.
 

Volphied

Member
Accurate outfits, helmets, gear. Probably some tear and wear.
I find it fair to say that Call of duty 2 had realistic looking soldiers

And you know this because you studied WW2 history extensively and went through thousands of documents and photographs to be sure.

Or maybe you know only pop history and thus you have only a "feeling" that the soldiers shown are accurate.
 

Kinyou

Member
What are you trying to prove at this point exactly? They've already shown multiple images of current COD games where your character is just a dress up doll got whatever silly fashion you unlock.
Merely this point
I mean, is it really such an outrageous claim that Call off duty used to have accurate inagery in the MP? Like I already said, i dont even care for it, but I can see that others would.


And you know this because you studied history extensively and went through thousands of documents and photographs to be sure.

Or maybe you know only pop history and thus you have only a "feeling" that the soldiers shown are accurate.
And that's reason enough to throw all realism out of the window and have them run around in pink ghillie suits?
 

OmegaFax

Member
It's a form of censorship and revisionist history. If certain countries outright ban Nazi imagery, devs could easily replace or discard the Nazi insignia.

It's a grey area because as a developer, they want to attract a wide audience but it seems odd given the material they are working with.

I see it as a work of fiction but people interpret it many different ways. Take, for example, an 60s Trek episode that was skipped in parts of Europe because of fears Neo-Nazism.


bf639fb516a2e2191fa8074b1f710315.jpg


I understand the rationale. Isn't a big deal.
 

Kalentan

Member
As I posted in the other thread.

Another reason they're doing this (in extension to the quote Iztil posted), is also probably because of the youtube community.

I know some may scorn at that or be angry but I know some YouTubers when covering the initial reveal of WW2 got flagged by YouTube for their videos containing Swastikas. If you want popular YouTubers to cover your multiplayer to get more people interested but then are getting flagged by YouTube and thus unable to monetize their videos, they're probably going to be less likely to cover it. Less coverage = possible loss of sales.
 

nbraun80

Member
Merely this point




And that's reason enough to throw all realism out of the window and have them run around in pink ghillie suits?
It hasn't been like that in nearly 10 years man. They aren't about to stop selling COD points to unlock funky gear for the sake of multiplayer ww2 realism, that ship has sailed.
 

Catphish

Member
I was actually thinking about this the other day, wondering how they'd deal with it.

I can see the case for authenticity, but I can also see the case for not wanting to be forced to represent the swastika when playing multiplayer. The thought I had was exactly how it appears to have been handled here. Swastikas in campaign, and something else, like an Iron Cross, for multiplayer.

Good job reading my mind. :)
 

Kinyou

Member
These are realistic soldiers because they're wearing realistic clothes and wielding realistic weapons.
I'm talking about realistic looking soldiers, not their actions, but I can see that you're not interested in a discussion and just want to get in some cheap shots
 

Starfield

Member
I don't get it. Why does there have to be female soldiers in every game now. It doesn't even make sense...let alone in WW2

especially on the Axis side

There were no women in the Wehrmacht.
 
I think this is a poor design decision. If you don't want to see swastikas, why are you playing a WW2 game?

.

If you want realism and history then why are you playing a video game?

By your logic, why watch a historically accurate movie then? If you like the history and the intrigue of WWII, you'll want to play a game or watch a movie about it and if the developer/director is constantly touting "historical accuracy", you kind of expect it to be just that.

I think the Nazi-sympathising section of the gaming audience is probably in their minds as well. Anything that takes their Nazi fantasies away is a good thing.

I'm in no way, shape, form or fashion a Nazi sympathizer. I am however, someone that enjoys history and to have any aspect of it censored - especially related to the greatest global conflict ever - is off-putting and disturbing.
 

nbraun80

Member
I'm not sure what history you are referring to in a futuristic game.

Silly example
Point is they have tapped into a market of selling loot crates to unlock silly gear and emotes, they aren't about to get off that gravy train to protect COD multiplayer 'realism'
 
I don't get it. Why does there have to be female soldiers in every game now. It doesn't even make sense...let alone in WW2

especially on the Axis side

It's a multiplayer game providing options for it's base of players, a sizable amount being women. It's not like we're talking of the campaign.

Is it really that offensive?

Zombies, duel wielding, respawning, drone marking, and whatever inaccuracies are fine, but women is where we apparently draw the line in our multiplayer.
 

Crossing Eden

Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
I don't get it. Why does there have to be female soldiers in every game now. It doesn't even make sense...let alone in WW2

especially on the Axis side
Because women play video games too. And if we're gonna tolerate magical UAVs in WW2 that reveal the position of the enemy that are activated via killstreaks then by god seeing a woman shouldn't be the thing breaking your immersion.
 

Starfield

Member
Because women play video games too. And if we're gonna tolerate magical UAVs in WW2 that reveal the position of the enemy that are activated via killstreaks then by god seeing a woman shouldn't be the thing breaking your immersion.

Yeah I totally get that. However nowadays it just feels forced to have a woman/woman lead in almost every game or movie.

What's gonna be the next hollywood/marketing trend in 5 years? I wouldn't be talking about this if my girlfriend wouldn't complain about it every time.
 
Smart move, really stoked for this. The last thing we need in CoD is some asshole running around with swastika everything yelling out slurs or being forced to be a Nazi gunning people down.
 

nbraun80

Member
So what? They can't play a male soldier in a world war two themed game? Where women were pretty much absent from the battlefield.

Again COD MP hasn't been about realism for some time now, it's about customizing your character with any silly colored gear and emotes you want.
 

mavo

Banned
So, you are able to play as a Nazi just without Swastikas kinda like trying to block the sun with a finger, it won't stop idiots from feeling "empowered", also what do they mean with "removed swastikas" did German soldiers wear giant swastikas on their uniform or something, like i feel this is something people wouldn't even have realized if they didn't make a comment.

And i like that you will see black people on the Axis just because there will be idiots that will be upset.
 

Iztli

Member
I don't get it. Why does there have to be female soldiers in every game now. It doesn't even make sense...let alone in WW2

especially on the Axis side

There were no women in the Wehrmacht.

Why wouldn't there be women in a multiplayer game where women play as well? Sledgehammer already said that the campaign is where you can get your fix for historical accuracy. That the mp is basically a playground where everyone is welcomed. Games are finally including a large sector that have been ignored for a long time. We should be happy and not mad at this.
 

Nepenthe

Member
I don't get it. Why does there have to be female soldiers in every game now. It doesn't even make sense...let alone in WW2

especially on the Axis side

There were no women in the Wehrmacht.

"I...I can't imagine being.... WELCOMING to people who aren't men.... Aren't we the only ones who play games?!"
 

Reebot

Member
I'm strongly pro-inclusion, but strongly against cleansing the Nazi image.

My suggestion: all players, from their perspective, play for the Allies. Think America's Army; the enemy always plays the Axis. Players can now customize their avatars and represent a spectrum of humanity without burying the racially coded violence and slaughter perpetrated by the Nazis.

Racial and gender diversity fit great into an escapist WW II shooter. Just not on the Axis side.
 
Yeah I totally get that. However nowadays it just feels forced to have a woman/woman lead in almost every game or movie.

What's gonna be the next hollywood/marketing trend in 5 years? I wouldn't be talking about this if my girlfriend wouldn't complain about it every time.

1. This is multiplayer as an option, not some "forced" lead in a narrative.

2. Imagine how women and minority groups must feel about all those forced white male protagonists
 

Nepenthe

Member
There were plenty of African American soldiers in WWII, however.

True, but considering the kind of "historical accuracy" people ask for in video games, you probably would never know that.

I also edited my post not to assume the poster's race. Even men who are racial minorities can be weirdly sexist.

Crying for Nazi symbols and questioning why we have women soldiers in the game. Smh

But watch the fervor when you claim gaming culture has a problem with simply not being a shithole.
 

Kolibri

Member
None of my female friends even like using female characters in games, which I find interesting.

I usually play as female for escapism because I'm a guy in real life. So I guess they are basically doing the same.
 

SapientWolf

Trucker Sexologist
Multiplayer is already extremely unrealistic, and has been so for many years now in every FPS.

The fact that the lack of swastikas is what makes some people suddenly cry "unrealistic" is hilariously suspicious.
Realism isn't the issue. It's the 2017 equivalent of "blood is now sweat." It's "find a stranger in the Alps."
 
What self respecting black man would fight for the Axis willingly?

I mean it's fine to have, but it just feels weird.

These days hopefully no one would but back then? Nazi Germany's army employed people of various colour as well as religious beliefs like the 13th Waffen Mountain Division of the SS or the Free Arabian Legion.
 
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