Tal Shiar Agent
Member
Its an equippable item like a grenade or stat boost or modifier.
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DICE Responds to Star Wars Battlefront II Beta Lootcrate Controversy
- Thread starter Tal Shiar Agent
- Start date
Hippopuncher12
Member
Ok, thanks. So no buy then.
Ofc it is.
Spartancarver
Member
Just watched the Jim Sterling video about Battlefront 2, and he says that you level up in BF2 by how many cards you've acquired, which seems like the collection based leveling you find in Warframe (Mastery Rank) and Forza 7 (Car Tiers).
If that's the case, and EA/DICE is now stating that you have to earn the right to unlock the more powerful Star Card effects, than that is just more pay-to-win because shelling out cash will get you more cards and faster than playing the game.
This is based on the beta. From the sounds of this press release, the beta was not the most current build of their star card system.
Razgriz-Specter
Member
I wouldn't even mind these loot boxes if they actually had enjoyable other content in there.
Star cards are BS
Bland MVP poses.... LOL
Locking map based hero skins in there(that were automatically available in BF1)
Star cards are BS
Bland MVP poses.... LOL
Locking map based hero skins in there(that were automatically available in BF1)
Fbh
Member
Some items like high level star cards or weapons have a level barrier.
We didn't know that before so there was fear that people could just drop another $30 day one and get considerable gameplay advantages from day one.
This doesn't entirely solve the issue (will depend on how hard it is to get these star cards and weapons without paying), but it means that even people buying crates will at least have to earn to level to use them.
And we also learned that apparently some of the best items can only be earned in game. Which, again, doesn't entirely solve the issue but at least it means that you can't get the best of everything by just spending more money on the game.
To me it still sounds like almost all of the progression is tied to loot boxes which still sounds like a shit system. But at least it's an improvement over the beta
There's a ton of possibilities between having a season pass and having Pay2win microtransactions and 80% of the progression system locked behind random loot boxes.
VonGreckler
Member
Just watched the Jim Sterling video about Battlefront 2, and he says that you level up in BF2 by how many cards you've acquired, which seems like the collection based leveling you find in Warframe (Mastery Rank) and Forza 7 (Car Tiers).
If that's the case, and EA/DICE is now stating that you have to earn the right to unlock the more powerful Star Card effects, than that is just more pay-to-win because shelling out cash will get you more cards and faster than playing the game.
They are talking about Account rank which is the same as the first Battlefront game. Earn XP by playing, rank up. This was in the beta as well, but only to rank 10.
The Xtortionist
Member
Not sure if it works that way. Overall player level is directly tied to XP, and class/fighter/hero level seems to be a combination of cards unlocked and XP gained with that loadout. In the beta I got assault class to level 8 after hardly unlocking anything for it in crates because simply because I played it the most. Other classes weren't nearly that high even though I was unlocking more cards for them.
yanipheonu
Member
The eyebrow raiser was the star card that simply increased the amount of damage you do.
Not just a perk or special trait, just a card that makes you simply better than the other player.
That's about as pay to win as it gets.
Not just a perk or special trait, just a card that makes you simply better than the other player.
That's about as pay to win as it gets.
Uh, Star Cards are weapons, buffs and abilities.
Yup, that's the garbage.
WilsonX100
Member
betas arent final folks
WilsonX100
Member
You cant just buy whatever card you want
ArkhamFantasy
Member
They want all the money.
I agree with your point, but it is very important to point out that the devs almost certainly do NOT want this garbage in their game, this is EA forcing them to do it.
Yup. No thanks to some guy who shortcut their way to winning every 1v1 battle. As long as weapons and abilities can be increased via loot crates then I'm not buying the game
Audioboxer
Member
I missed this video, as well as his Mordor one from yesterday. I'll watch both.
As for your statement, that is what it is. It's always a snowball effect with publishers. Tip-toeing till one or two plunges in, then they all dive in like a group of penguins.
When only one of them does it, they can easily be surrounded. Such as Blizzard launching the Diablo 3 real money auction house back when they did. If they get strength in numbers from them all diving in, it's harder and more time consuming for gamers to try and pile on them all. Leading to apathy and acceptance.
Hence the loot box mania that has just hit us.
NullPointer
Member
If anything betas usually shower you with XP and unlocks at a much faster rate so that players can see how leveling up affects the game, and so they can capture those metrics.
MasterMenace
Member
ding ding ding
ArkhamFantasy
Member
That's the way i saw Shadow of War. Seems like the grind in the game isnt bad, which leads me to believe that they're just trying to normalize lootboxes in premium single player games, then slowly over time manipulate the progression and economies of their future games so they have more incentive to buy them.
Forza 7 and Battlefront 2 are being much more bold than that, not even trying to hide what they're doing. At this rate we're going to have full blown F2P style progression systems in our premium games next gen.
Maybe a bit of DA... but we dont know how true this ever is...
USF
Member
Crystals were already up on Amazon
They go all the way up to $99
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B076BCV2V8/?tag=neogaf0e-20 (taken down)
Edit: Up on Amazon UK (£80)
https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B075H8V8LC/
They go all the way up to $99
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B076BCV2V8/?tag=neogaf0e-20 (taken down)
Edit: Up on Amazon UK (£80)
https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B075H8V8LC/
Audioboxer
Member
Speaking of Jim Sterling, he covered that Ubisoft F2P in $60 games vision from 2012 at Destructoid
https://www.destructoid.com/ubisoft-wants-free-to-play-model-in-more-60-games-235793.phtml
He wasn't wrong! 2012 Jim welcome to 2017. They've been making good progress this generation.
$99.99 is the new "cap" for "microtransactions" in $60 games. Ubisoft has been at it for a while, and so are 2K. Overwatch caps it's highest fee at $40 right now.
Terrorblot
Member
This is still shit city, but I think this might at least be enough to begrudgingly get me to pick up the game (Before the loot boxes I had REALLY wanted this game and sofar it seems like everything I wanted from the first, minus the loot boxes).
From my perspective it feels like Shadow of War is far worse than Battlefront 2. I just can't swallow the concept of Loot Boxes in a single player campaign, period.
From my perspective it feels like Shadow of War is far worse than Battlefront 2. I just can't swallow the concept of Loot Boxes in a single player campaign, period.
The Xtortionist
Member
Only for starfighters. Trooper and hero cards generally only offer advantages that are incremental (slightly wider blast radius for explosives) or non-combat based (faster ability cooldowns). There are a few exceptions for heroes, but they're very limited in use. Boba Fett potentially being invincible during his ~3 second rocket barrage animation or whatever.
ArkhamFantasy
Member
They know that, thats why they're trying to change it. This process will start off subtle and take years to transform into what they actually want, a full blown F2P economy and progression system in a premium 60 dollar game. (With season pass LOL)
If they use terms like "power ups" it will be too transparent, they're complicating this for a reason.
MiguelItUp
Member
I completely and wholeheartedly disagree. It depends on how they impact the game itself. In every experience that I've had, I've never partaken in them, and I still enjoyed the experience. It's a dirty trend, sure, I would never support it outside of a free to play title. But I'd hate to see games with solid gameplay experiences be berated because of microtransactions that aren't required and can be avoided.
Personally with what they're doing with Battlefront II is enough to interest me. But I'm also a large Star Wars fan. I'm not really upset about the whole crate debacle, sure, it's silly and I'd prefer it not be present. But I enjoyed my time enough with the beta that I plan on playing it this holiday, much like I did the previous game.
All in all, I'm glad that all the microtransaction topics are getting attention. The negative press is one of the few ways we'll see this practice stop. Hopefully.
Saucestin_Roast
Member
Yeah ok while its slightly better, it's still not the best.
And I shudder at the thought of the future. This shit has been getting worse and worse with each AAA game that comes out. I fear it's already too late. Publishers have broken us down. Ugh.
And I shudder at the thought of the future. This shit has been getting worse and worse with each AAA game that comes out. I fear it's already too late. Publishers have broken us down. Ugh.
prag16
Banned
Granted, those lazy whales are also effectively paying for our season passes. Still think this is better than milking all of us for a season pass and/or driving a wedge through the community via that season pass.
Stallion Dan
Member
"You need grind and level up, then the lootboxes bullshit matters".
TacoMasters
Member
FFS, this thread. Read the article. You can only unlock and upgrade Star Cards when you get to a high enough rank, so you have to play the game to progress. Before you reach that point, Star Cards are at base level. No one is having an advantage right from the start.
EDIT: There will be a option to play in which Star Cards are at base level.
EDIT: There will be a option to play in which Star Cards are at base level.
Oachkatzlschwoaf
Member
They usually do when they affect the gameplay.
Gentleman Jack
Member
Nah. I'd rather have the option to continue funding a known quantity than put up with design decisions intended to frustrate how slowly I accrue the perks of being a long-time player.
The false binary of 'lootboxes or season passes' has got to be the biggest enduring lie AAA publishers have sold the game buying public.
Fuzzification
Member
I see that the argument of "it's only cosmetic, not gameplay affecting" is now steadily being replaced with "it's only incremental gameplay advantages". Sigh, further down the hole we go.
Upgrade, yes. Unlock, no:
The wording for the second sentence here is vague, as it could be read that unlocking Star Cards is tied to player rank. But the first sentence clearly says "...earn the right to be able to upgrade Star Cards", not unlock - based on the first sentence all Star Cards are available for unlocking at the starting player rank, with upgrading tied to rank progression.
Two base rank players in which one of them has $99 of crate box purchases (and thus more Star Card to cuctomise their character with) still results in a gameplay advantage for the crate box purchaser. It remains pay to win.
Also, the option to play in which Star Cards are at base level isn't actually stated here. It says:
Nowhere does this say that they're providing the option to flatten the value of Star Cards, just that they've heard player feedback and that they're *insert fluffy PR about making an awesome experience #4theplayers*. The final decision as to whether such an option is included at some point in the game will ultimately come down to the developer/publisher deciding that it's in their best business interest to provide it.
SapientWolf
Trucker Sexologist
I think Battlefront 2 has the opposite problem than what people expected. The skilled players that spend a lot of time with the game will have a ton of advantages over even the players that spend all of their allowance on loot boxes. There are snowball mechanics baked into every aspect of the design. I have been playing CoD and Battlefield for thousands of hours and I have never had a harder time breaking into the top 5 of the leaderboards than with the Battlefront 2 beta.
Saucycarpdog
Member
This decision was definitely made recently due to all the backlash. If it wasn't, why didn't they do it in the beta? There was challenges in it that awarded beta weapons. But none of the powerful star cards were restricted to them.
I'm not buying the game because I just don't care to open loot boxes all that much unless its just harmless cosmetics (plus I need a crafting system). But good on them at least providing some kind of way to craft. I do like the idea of being awarded for my skill and this game does not do that. I am sure bots will run rampant in this since your performance matters not from what I saw of beta footage. First place and last place both got same rewards.
No thanks
Granted the achievements thing is a new wrinkle?
This game going to sale millions regardless and reviewers are gonna just gloss over the loot boxes even if they were the worst things imaginable. Parents will snatch the game right off the shelves because of the IP alone. Plus EA will make much more from clueless parents buying hundreds of loot boxes for their kids.
Well played EA it appears you will make a killing on this
No thanks
Granted the achievements thing is a new wrinkle?
This game going to sale millions regardless and reviewers are gonna just gloss over the loot boxes even if they were the worst things imaginable. Parents will snatch the game right off the shelves because of the IP alone. Plus EA will make much more from clueless parents buying hundreds of loot boxes for their kids.
Well played EA it appears you will make a killing on this
Theres so many people here that will jump to give EA the benefit of the doubt that im surprised they even care to make changes.
They know how much traffic videos from youtubers concerning this topic get. One of the biggest PC gaming channels calling your game pay 2 win is exactly the kick in the ass they needed.
They know how much traffic videos from youtubers concerning this topic get. One of the biggest PC gaming channels calling your game pay 2 win is exactly the kick in the ass they needed.
I'm actually kind of shocked that they actually are listening rather than diving in head first into the money bin like a greedy Scrooge McDuck.
That said, I'm still hesitant that they will make these drastic changes work. The only thing I can take from this is that the issues that were seen will just be tweaked at best, but fixed. There is still going to be issues that are going to come up and those who are desperate and will be playing with their credit cards are still going to have an upper hand compared to someone who isn't going to pay.
That said, I'm still hesitant that they will make these drastic changes work. The only thing I can take from this is that the issues that were seen will just be tweaked at best, but fixed. There is still going to be issues that are going to come up and those who are desperate and will be playing with their credit cards are still going to have an upper hand compared to someone who isn't going to pay.
NullPointer
Member
Yep. This is how you grease the slope.
Next will be "so what if its major gameplay advantages, its not supposed to be an ultra competitive mode".
Oh wait, I already read that regarding Halo 5's competitive Warzone mode. And so it continues.
Saucycarpdog
Member
Yeah it's actually interesting to see all the YouTubers calling it out. Angry Joe's rant about it has 1 million views and Total biscuit's has 500k views and Jim Sterling just put up his rant today and already has over 100k views.
Some people here on GAF have a lot of disdain for YouTubers but I think they can be great assets when it comes to calling out industry BS.
As I inferred from their statement, the advantage cards(lv. 4 abilities with best stats), are not earnable through random chance via loot boxes as in the beta. Instead they are earned via challenges and progression(seemingly identical to other FPS games).
This erodes the argument for pay 2 win as, if I understand correctly, one -cannot- spend real money to improve the quality of their abilities.
It is mentioned star cards are still obtained via lootboxes but no specifics are given(secondary weapons?), but advantage cards again seem to be acquired only by challenge rewards.
So yes this does change things dramatically, but someone correct me if I misread their bulletpoints.
Really enjoyed Angry Joe's rant. I already lost interest at the mere mention of loot boxes (that's not just cosmetics) but at least Angry Joe provided me with more info
But at least DICE has stepped out to make clarifications which will help others in their decisions
I still think vast majority of the public is just like, "OMG STAR WARS!!! BUY!!!" Then maybe after a month or so they'll realize the game has loot boxes and then complain. I think EA is gonna make a killing either way since most gamers (Esp FPS players) will only expect harmless cosmetics. and by the time they realize it's something more a month later EA will have their money
Tal Shiar Agent
Member
If any of then play COD, they'll know better. The COD devs lie every year saying their crates will be just cosmetic and without fail every year they add exclusive guns.