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Durante · Jul 26, 2016

I'm honestly surprised by the naïveté in this thread, I wish I could share such a positive outlook.

LewieP said:
Do people expect that, for example, future iterations of DirectX will support Win32 indefinitely?

Apparently they do.

unapersson said:
As owner of the OS it's a misuse of the notification system. It may or may not be true this week, but that really doesn't matter. They can run all the full page ads or sponsored content in magazines and websites that they like, or even run a huge banner ad when you start up Windows 10.

Should Google also be allowed to hook into Windows services to spy on what other apps are doing (Edge crashes 50% more often than other leading browsers, why not use Chrome?). But then they're not in a position where their competing browser automatically comes installed with the OS. We've pretty much been through this before, when Microsoft decided it was time to cut off Netscape's air supply. They've only recently come out from under anti-trust supervision for that one, yet already seem to falling back to old patterns of behaviour.

I didn't even know about that notification. It's amazing how Microsoft are already back into their old patterns and yet people think it's "paranoid" to extend that to their future plans.

orochi91 said:
This is literally happening on my PC right now.

Had all my video/audio associations set to Media Player Classic, but then all of a sudden everything got switched to MS's Groove player.

MPC wouldn't even show up when setting default apps; I had to completely uninstall and reinstall the software.

MS is shady as fuck.

Don't be so paranoid!

Panajev2001a said:
The problem is also that we cannot seem to distinguish the MS of Xbox and the MS of Windows and Office here so any comment about the latter must be console warrior nonsense against a company with history of anticompetitive behaviour and found guilty of abuse of monopoly and market manipulation before.
Would MS like to have the Apple App Store model? Yes. Does that go throughout go progressively tightening the OS? Yes.

Exactly.

jblank83 · Jul 26, 2016

unapersson said:
I don't if they'd do it this way, but they have form for this kind of thing. Going back a long way (DOS ain't done 'til Lotus won't run) or the new Windows 10 warning that pops up if you're using Chrome or Firefox to say they're power inefficient and you should use Edge:

Ridiculous

Microsoft was sued (and lost) for doing things like this.

L.O.R.D · Jul 26, 2016

What if is right and we laughing on him?

who is this guy anyway?

AllenShrz · Jul 26, 2016

Moosichu said:
I'm shocked at the reactions in this thread. Tim Sweeny is one of the smartest guys in the industry. Microsoft have tried this many times before (sometimes they got caught and failed). They may not be doing it, they may decide the PR is not worth it, but they've been refusing to deny doing it and talking around the issue which itself should be worrying enough.

Yes, shocking.

Maybe there are young and dont know the history of MS and the companies it drove out of business.

Truly foolish behavior.

saunderez · Jul 26, 2016

Durante said:
It's amazing how Microsoft are already back into their old patterns and yet people think it's "paranoid" to extend that to their future plans.

I was surprised to see how much it permeates Windows 10 even if youre not using the "free" version. Trying uninstalling OneDrive. Even if you manage to do it, it'll be back next update. Try completely removing Windows Defender. Its not possible. Microsoft don't give a fuck about the same shit that got them done for antitrust.

stan423321 · Jul 26, 2016

The one thing I am slightly scared about is that MS is slowly moving their existing software catalogue to UWP, Skype being the most recent example.

I can clearly imagine them doing that to Office and a few more programs, then starting to recommend disabling Win32 access altogether.

Durante · Jul 26, 2016

L.O.R.D said:
who is this guy anyway?

He's the fouder of Epic Games, which he created while he was still a student. He continued to work on Unreal Engine over the years, and single-handedly spearheaded the development of UE4, which is now one of the leading third-party engines in existence.

He's a remarkably smart and talented individual with a lot of foresight.

Big_Al · Jul 26, 2016

Durante said:
He's the fouder of Epic Games, which he created while he was still a student. He continued to work on Unreal Engine over the years, and single-handedly spearheaded the development of UE4, which is now one of the leading third-party engines in existence.

He's a remarkably smart and talented individual with a lot of foresight.

No No don't you get it Durante. Phil Spencer is a good guy, Tim Sweeney is on crack! He should be ignored because MS has never done anything suspicious or anti competitive ever. They're completely trust worthy!

Omikaru · Jul 26, 2016

JoJo UK said:
I get what your saying about it being a backwards way of looking at thing however sitting in work right now, working in the banking industry for 15+ years the idea that the bank I work for (and ones I have previously) will be anywhere near close to switching to UWP in 5 years+ makes me laugh. The industry is so reliant on old systems the migration process would be an industry in itself. My wife is a teacher, the education system is just a bad. UK gaffer here, no idea what the rest of the world would be like, I did work for a US bank for a number of years who were better from an IT perspective, they still relied on some very old systems however.

MS may have these great (as in massive, not necessarily good) underlying plans but it's going to take a lot of time and a hell of a lot of money to drag some sectors into that future.

Of course, I'm not saying they're going to succeed. There will be a lot of resistance. I have two jobs, one self-employed and the other regular hours, and in the job I work regular hours we still use some old version of Windows Mobile (6.5 or maybe even earlier) for our handheld devices and Windows 2000 on our back office intranet server. The chances that we move to a modern system (with modern devices) any time in the next five years is almost nonexistent.

That doesn't mean Microsoft aren't going to try, however. There are a lot of people in MS who probably see the company's floundering efforts in mobile as a big problem, and want to bolster their desktop/laptop/tablet OS market to secure the company's future. Part of that is controlling the ecosystem in an Apple-like fashion, from the point of manufacturing right through to the end user buying apps. Surface on one end, and the UWP app store on the other are examples of this.

If that means they have to undermine developers and users in order to bully them into the new system, then they will try it.

I imagine it's also a point of shame for Microsoft that Valve, founded by ex-Microsoft employees who left the company, hold far and away the largest chunk of the Windows app store market. So again, they will try to bully people into switching. However, I think the PC games market is more resilient than that. At least I hope so.

But I don't doubt for a second that Microsoft are working on a subtle, creeping and insidious assault on the Windows software market, including (and especially) games. This isn't some console wars bullshit, it's a real and existential threat to an open platform Windows OS. Thankfully, a lot of very smart people have seen what's happening and are trying to mitigate it, and I hope the PC games community follows suit.

hooijdonk17 · Jul 26, 2016

Durante said:
He's the fouder of Epic Games, which he created while he was still a student. He continued to work on Unreal Engine over the years, and single-handedly spearheaded the development of UE4, which is now one of the leading third-party engines in existence.

He's a remarkably smart and talented individual with a lot of foresight.

He's the kind of man we should listen to more than we listen to Microsoft's corporate PR for sure..

Thank god there is Vulkan. I so really hope that Vulkan trumps DX12/UWP. UWP is a nightmare PC gaming future scenario.

AllenShrz · Jul 26, 2016

stan423321 said:
I can clearly imagine them doing that to Office and a few more programs, then starting to recommend disabling Win32 access altogether.

That will happen one day.

"Are you sure you want to run this app?, it might damage your system, we recommend visit the MS store instead"

ps3ud0 · Jul 26, 2016

Think I'm biting my tongue and watching something as innocuous as impulse trigger PC support unfold before making a decision.

Have to wonder why Sweeney feels so comfortable to (repeatedly) publicly say what he's saying and wonder what MS did to give him that impression. His working relationship prior to selling off Gears IP can't have been great wherever you stand on his comments...

ps3ud0 8)

Haunted · Jul 26, 2016

I mean, PC gamers are used to laughing at Microsoft's decade of empty promises and jokingly refer to their efforts as trying to sabotage PC gaming (also see: GFWL), but with this recent UWP and Windows 10 store business, it does seem as if Microsoft has become a bit more aggressive in their attempts to undermine PC gaming as we know it.

That said, whether this is all just misguided incompetence or done with actual malicious intent, the end result would be similar... so according to Occam's Razor, I'm probably in the former camp.

L.O.R.D said:
What if is right and we laughing on him?

who is this guy anyway?

Founder and CEO of Epic Games (Unreal, Unreal Engine).

stan423321 · Jul 26, 2016

unapersson said:
I don't if they'd do it this way, but they have form for this kind of thing. Going back a long way (DOS ain't done 'til Lotus won't run) or the new Windows 10 warning that pops up if you're using Chrome or Firefox to say they're power inefficient and you should use Edge:

Wait a moment. This is actually happening? How did I never stumble upon this, either on the internet or on my PC?

MaulerX · Jul 26, 2016

Big_Al said:
This is GAF, there are a lot of dumb, naive mother fuckers here. Do not underestimate the stupidity.

I'd believe Tim Sweeney over Microsoft any bloody day and I could easily, easily see Microsoft trying this shit with their history. And you can fuck right off with that 'Good guy Phil Spencer' shit. He's just another MS executive and you'd do best to not believe a thing he says or to at least not take things at face value, he's not your 'friend' and he's not doing things because he 'likes you' He's doing it because his puppet masters above are telling him too. Phil's just another corporate cog in the machine. Is that cynical thinking ? Absolutely but when it comes to corporations and Microsoft it's best to always keep an eye on them. But then MS is generally good at fucking things up anyway.

So anyone that disagrees with what you agree on is a "dumb, naïve mother fucker and stupid". You should get banned.

BlackLagoon · Jul 26, 2016

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AARD_code

The AARD code was a segment of code in a beta release of Microsoft Windows 3.1 that would determine whether Windows was running on MS-DOS or PC DOS, rather than a competing workalike such as DR-DOS, and would result in a cryptic error message in the latter case. This XOR-encrypted, self-modifying, and deliberately obfuscated machine code used a variety of undocumented DOS structures and functions to perform its work, and appeared in the installer, WIN.COM and several other executables in the OS.

The AARD code was originally discovered by Geoff Chappell on 17 April 1992 and then further analyzed and documented in a joint effort with Andrew Schulman. The name was derived from Microsoft programmer Aaron R. Reynolds (1955–2008), who used "AARD" to sign his work; "AARD" was found in the machine code of the installer.[6][7] Microsoft disabled the AARD code for the final release of Windows 3.1, but did not remove it, so that it could have become reactivated anytime later by the change of a single byte in an installed system, thereby constituting a "smoking gun".

The rationale for the AARD code came to light when internal memos were released during the United States v. Microsoft antitrust case in 1999. Internal memos released by Microsoft revealed that the specific focus of these tests was DR-DOS. At one point, Microsoft CEO Bill Gates sent a memo to a number of employees, reading "You never sent me a response on the question of what things an app would do that would make it run with MSDOS and not run with DR-DOS. Is there feature [sic] they have that might get in our way?" Microsoft Senior Vice President Brad Silverberg later sent another memo, stating: "What the [user] is supposed to do is feel uncomfortable, and when he has bugs, suspect that the problem is DR-DOS and then go out to buy MS-DOS."

You can always hope MS has changed enough not to pull this crap, but it's definitely not completely implausible given the company's history.

therealbigrich · Jul 26, 2016

At this point i think MS is pretty shady and liable to do a lot of things ppl might not like. I guess I'm thinking if it does get to that point the backlash will be enough for changes to be made

SwolBro · Jul 26, 2016

Big_Al said:
This is GAF, there are a lot of dumb, naive mother fuckers here. Do not underestimate the stupidity.

I'd believe Tim Sweeney over Microsoft any bloody day and I could easily, easily see Microsoft trying this shit with their history. And you can fuck right off with that 'Good guy Phil Spencer' shit. He's just another MS executive and you'd do best to not believe a thing he says or to at least not take things at face value, he's not your 'friend' and he's not doing things because he 'likes you' He's doing it because his puppet masters above are telling him too. Phil's just another corporate cog in the machine. Is that cynical thinking ? Absolutely but when it comes to corporations and Microsoft it's best to always keep an eye on them. But then MS is generally good at fucking things up anyway.

damn dude, your hate is real.

Lucifon · Jul 26, 2016

Durante said:
He's the fouder of Epic Games, which he created while he was still a student. He continued to work on Unreal Engine over the years, and single-handedly spearheaded the development of UE4, which is now one of the leading third-party engines in existence.

He's a remarkably smart and talented individual with a lot of foresight.

His intelligence when it comes to coding doesn't equate to intelligence of predicting Microsoft's large business moves. I know, and have met, a lot of damn smart coders and technical folk who are also massive idiots when it comes to wearing a tinfoil hat. Screwing over Steam simply doesn't make sense from a business perspective, and especially not in the position MS are in with gamers. You want people to buy your OS (and therefore potentially your other services) not piss them off. If anything they're far more likely to collaborate and integrate with Steam than try implement sneaky hooks which make a program buggier and more likely to break...

hooijdonk17 · Jul 26, 2016

MaulerX said:
So anyone that disagrees with what you agree on is a "dumb, naïve mother fucker and stupid". You should get banned.

He did not posit that, you aren't any better than he is. Arguably you are worse, because you are putting words in his mouth at his expense. Saying the world is full of idiots doesn't automatically mean everyone who doesn't agree that with you is an idiot.

Panajev2001a · Jul 26, 2016

Zojirushi said:
Wow people jumping in to defend Microsofts dick moves in this thread is super worrying to me.

This whole UWP/W10 store/closed platform app business is shady as fuck and should be watched very closely by everyone who appreciates the PC as an open platform. This has nothing to do with conspiracy theories or tinfoil hat BS.

Hint: I suspect not a lot of people realise it is the openess that plays a great part in making the pc beautiful and many will fall for the promise of essentially the same awesome pc experience just with added super strong security on top.

Saint of Killers · Jul 26, 2016

orochi91 said:
This is literally happening on my PC right now.

Had all my video/audio associations set to Media Player Classic, but then all of a sudden everything got switched to MS's Groove player.

MPC wouldn't even show up when setting default apps; I had to completely uninstall and reinstall the software.

MS is shady as fuck.

And even if you set another application to be the default media player, you still have to go into video file (er, codecs?) types to make sure the MS player isn't the default choice for particular kinds of files.

EGM1966 · Jul 26, 2016

Big_Al said:
No No don't you get it Durante. Phil Spencer is a good guy, Tim Sweeney is on crack! He should be ignored because MS has never done anything suspicious or anti competitive ever. They're completely trust worthy!

The potential level of blind trust implied in this thread is the real worry.

MS more than most big tech companies has regularly given in to the temptation to not just compete by making their offer good but using shady methods to make the competition look bad to make it even easier (and quicker) to make their offer do so.

It's real tempting to do this and in their position with control of the OS and underlying infrastructure they're uniquely well placed to do do.

Will they? Who knows. But it should for sure be the working assumption they might and they should be monitored accordingly.

Going "nah no way" just makes it even more tempting to try.

AndyMoogle · Jul 26, 2016

Thankfully, gaming is the one area where MS really can't get it right at all. GFWL was complete garbage. And now the Win 10 store is the exact same garbage with a new name. You'd think that they would make a decent product at the very least, instead of what they've put out. I guess it could be that their gaming division has more pressure on them than any other division and have to force something out. They usually get it at least somewhat right in other areas.

The question is if MS really can do the whole EEE concept anymore. Azure and Hyper-V are doing pretty well, but their browser has lost a lot of ground. Windows 10 isn't being installed nearly as fast as MS had hoped. The Win 10 store hasn't had a good start at all. Rise of the Tomb Raider bombed big time and Square Enix don't seem to be interested in releasing more games there. Xbox One is doing ok, but they are nowhere near PS4. We'll see if Scorpio and raw power can get them back some market share. Windows Phones... well, let's not even go there.

The only way I can see UWP succeeding for games, is if they end up completely blocking Win32. Which is something I can't really see them doing because of how much trouble they would be in if they did. I don't think PC gaming is THAT important to MS.

Gemüsepizza · Jul 26, 2016

What I find shocking is, that it seems like some people here feel the need to insult people they don't agree with. Apparently I am a young, dumb, naive motherfucker because I don't buy into the FUD of a man who has his own agenda. It's also very interesting that the only arguments from the "Microsoft is evil" crowd are "look what Microsoft has done decades ago" and "but Tim Sweeney is a very intelligent guy and hey look at his biography". You guys realise that Microsoft has swapped executives several times since those times? And how about you produce some actual evidence when you make such claims? Also still nobody could answer me my question from before: Do you guys really, honestly believe that the whole god damn industry with all their own stores will just fucking sit there and do nothing? That the customers and the EU will do nothing? This is picture book FUD. Plain and simple.

Panajev2001a · Jul 26, 2016

Saint of Killers said:
And even if you set another application to be the default media player, you still have to go into video file (?) types to make sure the MS player isn't the default choice for particular kinds of files.

I noticed how easy it was for me to proceed through some prompts and lose Firefox as default browser on a setup I upgraded to Windows 10.

saunderez · Jul 26, 2016

Saint of Killers said:
And even if you set another application to be the default media player, you still have to go into video file (er, codecs?) types to make sure the MS player isn't the default choice for particular kinds of files.

It is complete and utter bullshit and something that hasn't been a problem until Windows 10. Its clear what the intent is here. And its inexcusable.

SomedayTheFire · Jul 26, 2016

that first page is an absolute mess lol

Big_Al · Jul 26, 2016

MaulerX said:
So anyone that disagrees with what you agree on is a "dumb, naïve mother fucker and stupid". You should get banned.

SwolBro said:
damn dude, your hate is real.

EGM1966 said:
The potential level of blind trust implied in this thread is the real worry.

MS more than most big tech companies has regularly given in to the temptation to not just compete by making their offer good but using shady methods to make the competition look bad to make it even easier (and quicker) to make their offer do so.

It's real tempting to do this and in their position with control of the OS and underlying infrastructure they're uniquely well placed to do do.

Will they? Who knows. But it should for sure be the working assumption they might and they should be monitored accordingly.

Going "nah no way" just makes it even more tempting to try.

Yes I realise it's harsh (and I'll admit I woke up in a bit of a bad mood this morning) but when an incredibly smart man like Tim Sweeney who knows a lot more than you or I says things like this you should LISTEN! Or at least not call the man a complete crackpot and show him some respect. Instead he gets laughed at as if he doesn't know a thing, that's naive and stupid. For goodness sake you've got people not even open to the fact that Microsoft would think of doing something insidious. That is absolutely crazy to me for anyone who's seen what MS has been up to over the years.

And no I don't mean people who disagree with me in general, I'm talking specifically with this point on PC gaming and them trying to close down their operating system. People who have no interest in PC gaming or the PC in general and who care to forget about Microsofts history in anti competitiveness. Yes I do label those people naive and stupid if they think MS aren't even going to try. Whether or not they succeed is another thing.

Also you're not a mod, so please quit the backseat modding. If the mods want to ban me so be it but I stand by every word.

barit · Jul 26, 2016

Really sad how many people in here screaming tinfoil hat and dismissing Sweeney's words within seconds. To all who defend their beloved MS: You should really check the history of this company to understand that this is more common and based on reality than you maybe thought. I mean MS even invented this damn tactic ffs

xenorevlis · Jul 26, 2016

MarionCB said:
Wow, so many people in this thread seem unaware of the term Embrace, Extend and Extinguish. What Sweeney is describing is not only plausible, it's what MS has been doing for decades for many different areas. They are doing it now to move into selling games on PC, and Valve is their competitor. It's no surprise. The only question is if they can get away with it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Embrace,_extend_and_extinguish

Seeing those first comments I was about to post about this. People seem to have no knowledge of the shady shit MS has done and continues to do. Blind ignorance or simply never heard of it, but the dismissal is hilarious.

Did we already forget that Microsoft lied about have backdoors in Skype on Xbox One and Windows that allow NSA and basically any hacker who figured out the backdoor requirements to spy on you? You know, in the Edward Snowden leaks? It's only been like 3 years ffs.

Primethius · Jul 26, 2016

saunderez said:
I was surprised to see how much it permeates Windows 10 even if youre not using the "free" version. Trying uninstalling OneDrive. Even if you manage to do it, it'll be back next update. Try completely removing Windows Defender. Its not possible. Microsoft don't give a fuck about the same shit that got them done for antitrust.

It's crazy how much annoying shit W10 is plagued with. I like the OS as well but having to spend so much time trying to remove useless, annoying and forced shit really sucks.

Gemüsepizza · Jul 26, 2016

Big_Al said:
Yes I realise it's harsh but when an incredibly smart man like Tim Sweeney who knows a lot more than you or I says things like this you should LISTEN!

Instead he gets laughed at as if he doesn't know a thing, that's naive and stupid.

And no I don't mean people who disagree with me in general, I'm talking specifically with this point on PC gaming and them trying to close down their operating system. People who have no interest in PC gaming or the PC in general and who care to forget about Microsofts history in anti competitiveness. Yes I do label those people naive and stupid if they think MS aren't even going to try.

Also you're not a mod, so please quit the backseat modding. If the mods want to ban me so be it but I stand by every word.

I don't give a damn how smart he is in your opinion. What I do give a damn about are arguments, facts and evidence. And his arguments are poor, his facts and evidence are non-existant.

Lashley · Jul 26, 2016

Still be better than the windows store

saunderez · Jul 26, 2016

Primethius said:
It's crazy how much annoying shit W10 is plagued with. I like the OS as well but having to spend so much time trying to remove useless, annoying and forced shit really sucks.

Exactly. And I don't even hate Windows 10. But I have serious problems with Microsoft's behaviour when it comes to things like this. If I'm running the Professional version of your OS, fuck off and stop trying to be helpful.

SomedayTheFire · Jul 26, 2016

MaulerX said:
So anyone that disagrees with what you agree on is a "dumb, naïve mother fucker and stupid". You should get banned.

if you ignore the last 30 years of microsoft, yeah.

xenorevlis said:
Seeing those first comments I was about to post about this. People seem to have no knowledge of the shady shit MS has done and continues to do. Blind ignorance or simply never heard of it, but the dismissal is hilarious.

Did we already forget that Microsoft lied about have backdoors in Skype on Xbox One and Windows that allow NSA and basically any hacker who figured out the backdoor requirements to spy on you? You know, in the Edward Snowden leaks? It's only been like 3 years ffs.

phil spencer doe

MaulerX · Jul 26, 2016

Big_Al said:
Yes I realise it's harsh but when an incredibly smart man like Tim Sweeney who knows a lot more than you or I says things like this you should LISTEN!

Instead he gets laughed at as if he doesn't know a thing, that's naive and stupid.

And no I don't mean people who disagree with me in general, I'm talking specifically with this point on PC gaming and them trying to close down their operating system. People who have no interest in PC gaming or the PC in general and who care to forget about Microsofts history in anti competitiveness. Yes I do label those people naive and stupid if they think MS aren't even going to try.

Also you're not a mod, so please quit the backseat modding. If the mods want to ban me so be it but I stand by every word.

Sure I'm not a mod, but when you say things like "This is GAF, there are a lot of dumb, naive mother fuckers here. Do not underestimate the stupidity." then it is my opinion that you should.

Detective · Jul 26, 2016

Calling people idiots and mother fuckers is really low.

This community should not behave like this. It not N4G, I dont know its even allowed on N4G.

AllenShrz · Jul 26, 2016

Gemüsepizza;211410852 said:
I don't give a damn how smart he is in your opinion. I give a damn about arguments, about facts and evidence. And his arguments are poor, his facts and evidence is non-existant.

Another one.

Apparently Gumusepizza lives on a parallel universe where MS has never been on trail and lost for antitrust behavior on many occasions and on many countries.

That must be a nice universe to live in.

xenorevlis · Jul 26, 2016

Gemüsepizza;211410852 said:
I don't give a damn how smart he is in your opinion. What I do give a damn about are arguments, facts and evidence. And his arguments are poor, his facts and evidence are non-existant.

Oh, so now the very thing he is describing - the thing our government took MS to court for in the past - is non existent? Really? Sad.

Roshin · Jul 26, 2016

Big_Al said:
And you can fuck right off with that 'Good guy Phil Spencer' shit.

Come on, Big Al.

Phil, he's a "real genuine dude". He wouldn't allow this! He would just tell MS to "Oi, you lot better cut that out" and everything will be fine.

Big_Al · Jul 26, 2016

MaulerX said:
Sure I'm not a mod, but when you say things like "This is GAF, there are a lot of dumb, naive mother fuckers here. Do not underestimate the stupidity." then it is my opinion that you should.

Ok I apologise, this subject gets me more worked up than I care to admit. I apologise to everyone offended by the 'dumb, stupid naive mother fuckers' line. You're right, I should be much better than that. Apologies again. I'll edit the offending line and not be such a hot headed prick in this thread.

Roshin said:
Come on, Big Al.

Phil, he's a "real genuine dude". He wouldn't allow this! He would just tell MS to "Oi, you lot better cut that out" and everything will be fine.

I don't think Phil's got bad intentions, far from it in fact. But he is hamstrung by the policies from above and he has to abide by what they say and what their focus is to be. Basically, he does what he's told.

hooijdonk17 · Jul 26, 2016

Gemüsepizza;211410852 said:
I don't give a damn how smart he is in your opinion. What I do give a damn about are arguments, facts and evidence. And his arguments are poor, his facts and evidence are non-existant.

Well yeah, his points are all moot if you disregard the fact that they are all correct.

Just lol.

Gemüsepizza · Jul 26, 2016

xenorevlis said:
Oh, so now the very thing he is describing - the thing our government took MS to court for in the past - is non existent? Really? Sad.

Interesting logic. Let's convict Microsoft for something completely made-up, because of what they did in the past, while being led by completely different executives.

hooijdonk17 said:
Well yeah, his points are all moot if you disregard the fact that they are all correct.

Just lol.

It's pretty obvious that I meant facts about the current accusations.

saunderez · Jul 26, 2016

Gemüsepizza;211411185 said:
Interesting logic. Let's convict Microsoft for something completely made-up, because of what they did in the past, while being led by completely different executives.

FFS. Theres ample examples in this very thread of them continuing THE SAME FUCKING BEHVIOUR.
Stop the blind defense for a second and its painfully obvious they haven't changed.

spazimoose · Jul 26, 2016

Lucifon said:
His intelligence when it comes to coding doesn't equate to intelligence of predicting Microsoft's large business moves. I know, and have met, a lot of damn smart coders and technical folk who are also massive idiots when it comes to wearing a tinfoil hat. Screwing over Steam simply doesn't make sense from a business perspective, and especially not in the position MS are in with gamers. You want people to buy your OS (and therefore potentially your other services) not piss them off. If anything they're far more likely to collaborate and integrate with Steam than try implement sneaky hooks which make a program buggier and more likely to break...

What matters is that he has been in the business long enough to see when some one is making a pretty blatant move.

Also it would be a mistake to think that Microsoft gives a flying fuck about pissing anyone off. Gamer's are a rounding error for Microsoft when you consider the greater Windows ecosystem of one billion+ PCs. Microsoft stands to make massive profits if their app store takes off. Even if they screw it up, its not like all billion, even hundreds of millions of people are going to just get up and start using Linux instead.

SDF-1 · Jul 26, 2016

Yep lets completely kill the legacy enterprise market, losing our entire business customer base in the process.

I'm always one for being cynical about MS but this is just too ridiculous.

Gemüsepizza · Jul 26, 2016

saunderez said:
FFS. Theres ample examples in this very thread of them continuing THE SAME FUCKING BEHVIOUR.
Stop the blind defense for a second and its painfully obvious they haven't changed.

What's painfully obvious is that you guys have zero evidence for what you are suggesting.

hooijdonk17 · Jul 26, 2016

Gemüsepizza;211411185 said:
It's pretty obvious that I meant facts about the current accusations.

Have you changed your browser to Edge yet? You know Chrome is 32% less energy efficient right?

Have you ever had spontaneous system tray popups telling you your file type associations are wrong (I believe the exact word it used was, were incorrectly setup) and reverted back to Microsoft's media Player?

Have you ever woken up to find a system update that completely fucked your system over?

Has your PC upgraded your OS without your permission, even after repeatedly disabling every annoying banner, popup, icon, software and downloader it installed without permission?

Have you ever tried to game on the clusterfuck that is the UWP? Have you ever browsed the Windows Store? Have you previously bought shit on GFWL only to be unable to access anything now?

What more do you want?

Irminsul · Jul 26, 2016

Durante said:
I'm honestly surprised by the naïveté in this thread, I wish I could share such a positive outlook.

Eh, I don't doubt MS wants Steam gone sooner rather than later, I just doubt they can succeed in that, at least in the way Sweeney thinks it'll happen.

What is MS going to do? Phase out win32? Sure, that'll happen, after changing a fucking start menu was enough reason for people to stay away from an OS. Oh, and business customers will probably be happy to just move everything away from win32. I could actually see this - in 15 years or so. I mean, five years? Come on. By then, many companies will still be on Win 7.

MS could probably try to phase out win32 on everything but Win 10 Enterprise, but even that I don't really see. MS may have a history of E3 (hah!), but they don't really have one of doing away with old shibboleths.

Okay, so MS could make win32 "unattractive" and keep new features exclusive. But what new features would Steam (as in, the client) really need? It's an ugly piece of software without any help from MS, and actually even more so on OS X.

So what, is MS to target the Steam client specifically? I'm sorry, but that's really deep into tinfoil hat territory. Especially because Sweeney's theory checks all the marks for a conspiracy theory. There's no way it can be proven and Sweeney even makes sure it can't, because he basically just says the Steam client will get progressively worse. Which could happen on Valve's own account. Of course Valve would never be able to say MS is actively targeting them, because of course MS is just so good at targeting Steam that it's just not recognizable. So yeah, classic conspiracy theory.

I mean, the easiest solution to this would to just keep an old installation of Win 10 not connected to the Internet and see what's happening to Steam. Or a Win 7 installation for that matter, if MS is really targeting the Steam client. And then what? Do you count the number of crashes? What exactly is even supposed to happen to make Steam "run worse"?

Embrace, Extend, Extinguish works differently. If MS want to do that with Steam, they'll just offer publishers a better deal flat out, and an even better one if they stay exclusive to the Windows store. There, a much better strategy for MS in a single sentence without any of that conspiracy crap needed.

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