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PoliGAF 2012 Community Thread

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T

ToxicAdam

Member
I don't really see any of Romney's 'gaffes' as bad as you paint them. In most of the cases he was merely stating what he believes or being honest. Now, politically, they may have hurt him with some knee-jerk independents or emboldened Democrats to vote for Obama, but they weren't some tragic campaign killers.
 
G

GhaleonEB

Member
AlteredBeast said:
I am not saying that, though. I am saying that for Romney to say that the economy isn't growing would go in the face of unemployment numbers dropping, GDP gains, stock market gains etc. would be stupid. Those are hard facts, and to argue otherwise is pointless.

For him to say that Obama's policies are hurting the recovery or making the recession worse are contextual. Overall, unemployment is worse than when he took office, for example. Romney will make those cases and it is up to the general public to see when and where they fall for it.
Click to expand...

But Romney didn't say that - he specified that Obama made the recession worse - in the midst of a (slow) recovery. Which goes in the face of unemployment numbers dropping, GDP gains, stock market gains etc. and is stupid. Which is probably why he shifted gears.
 
A

AlteredBeast

Fork 'em, Sparky!
GhaleonEB said:
But Romney didn't say that - he specified that Obama made the recession worse - in the midst of a (slow) recovery. Which goes in the face of unemployment numbers dropping, GDP gains, stock market gains etc. and is stupid. Which is probably why he shifted gears.
Click to expand...

He only shifted gears once everything really started to get better...

What did you want him to do, exactly?
 
A

Arde5643

Member
ToxicAdam said:
I don't really see any of Romney's 'gaffes' as bad as you paint them. In most of the cases he was merely stating what he believes or being honest. Now, politically, they may have hurt him with some knee-jerk independents or emboldened Democrats to vote for Obama, but they weren't some tragic campaign killers.
Click to expand...

He seems to do a lot of them though - enough to build that "out-of-touch fat cat elitist" stereotype.
 
S

Something Wicked

Member
ToxicAdam said:
The tepid trajectory of this recovery is very similar to the time of when Bush Sr. was running for re-election. He was trying to convince people that things were getting better, but Clinton's camp used that to paint him as 'out of touch' with the average man.

Romney of course could try Clinton's tact, but would be horribly laughed at by the average person. Just another example of why Romney is a horrible candidate this year. It's like all the planets aligned against him.
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However, Clinton didn't have a $1.2 trillion annual deficit to rail against Bush Sr. Romney's plan isn't to necessarily paint Obama as "out of touch with the average person" or some evil boogieman (like some in the GOP), but simply demonstrate Obama as "inept" and "misguided."


GhaleonEB said:
But Romney didn't say that - he specified that Obama made the recession worse - in the midst of a (slow) recovery. Which goes in the face of unemployment numbers dropping, GDP gains, stock market gains etc. and is stupid. Which is probably why he shifted gears.
Click to expand...

Romney is going to say a lot of things. He has and going to continue to say that the economy isn't growing fast enough. He's going to say that 2-3% annual GDP growth is not good enough, and that it should at least 4+%, which he is right in the sense that the US does need over 4%-5% percent growth to regain the jobs lost from the 2008-2009 as more and more college graduates enter the job market.
 
T

thatbox

Banned
Invisible_Insane said:
I'm reminded of the cartoon of the plane in the nosedive, inches from the ground, with the caption, "You take over from here."
Click to expand...

Tim-E said:
To them, Obama's policies will get no credit for any growth, but if the economy was getting worse then every drop of blame would go his way.
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You guys don't understand how little some of these people care about facts and numbers. A lot of them don't buy that the economy is slowly improving. Just today, my local paper's tea partier political cartoonist shat this out:

Rxnh1.jpg
Click to expand...
 
S

sc0la

Unconfirmed Member
That's actually kind of a funny cartoon. Also parallels Obamas use of the "drove the economy into a ditch" metaphor he used in 08 etc

It's bullshit, but valid comedy IMO. Also not obliquely racist like some of the MLK day ones posted here.
 
M

Miletius

Member
sc0la said:
Not surprising she is out at State, 4 years of that would burn anyone out. But where does she go? I think the VP speculation stuff is baloney and there isn't much higher than state?
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I think she's just done. I mean, she is a lot older (and looks it) and there's no way she's going to have another shot at the presidency. My guess is she gets a job at Bill's foundation or she goes into charity some other way. I guess consulting works too.

Somewhat of a changing of the guard moment coming here, as the older politicians I grew up with retire and make way for a newer squad of fresh faces.

My question is, who else is gonna take that job? Maybe Obama should offer it to Huntsman (lol).
 
A

A27_StarWolf

Banned
Miletius said:
I think she's just done. I mean, she is a lot older (and looks it) and there's no way she's going to have another shot at the presidency. My guess is she gets a job at Bill's foundation or she goes into charity some other way. I guess consulting works too.

Somewhat of a changing of the guard moment coming here, as the older politicians I grew up with retire and make way for a newer squad of fresh faces.

My question is, who else is gonna take that job? Maybe Obama should offer it to Huntsman (lol).
Click to expand...

Obama announcing Jon Huntsman as the new Secretary of State would probably help Obama in the long run, but it would kill Huntsman's chances of a presidential run ever again. honestly though, Secretary of State is a pretty good job I would say :p

Those pesky colleges teaching the left wing agenda! http://www.cnn.com/video/?hpt=hp_t2...01/25/bts-santorum-colleges-against-faith.cnn
 
R

RDreamer

Member
A27_StarWolf said:
Those pesky colleges teaching the left wing agenda! http://www.cnn.com/video/?hpt=hp_t2...01/25/bts-santorum-colleges-against-faith.cnn
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Man, fuck Santorum.

What's funny is that I went to a Lutheran college and ended up with way less faith than I went in with. I'm still a believer in God, but my belief in institutionalized religion is near zero or below. Had a friend too that was pretty close to devout when he started and he ended up atheist as all hell. In my opinion, it's pieces of shit like Rick Santorum that push people further away from any sort of faith.
 
C

Chumly

Member
RDreamer said:
Man, fuck Santorum.

What's funny is that I went to a Lutheran college and ended up with way less faith than I went in with. I'm still a believer in God, but my belief in institutionalized religion is near zero or below. Had a friend too that was pretty close to devout when he started and he ended up atheist as all hell. In my opinion, it's pieces of shit like Rick Santorum that push people further away from any sort of faith.
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.


I actually left college (public university) still with a lot of faith and a conservative. Once I got to the real world and had to work with people like Santorum it completely flipped me on my political ideology and i hate institutionalized religion now. Although I am still religious since I believe in the core values (and NOT santorum's core values). I feel like I get pushed farther and farther away from religion and further left every day when I see people spouting crap like this and listening to my borderline racist relatives who are all tea partiers.
 
T

Tawpgun

Member
A27_StarWolf said:
Obama announcing Jon Huntsman as the new Secretary of State would probably help Obama in the long run, but it would kill Huntsman's chances of a presidential run ever again. honestly though, Secretary of State is a pretty good job I would say :p

Those pesky colleges teaching the left wing agenda! http://www.cnn.com/video/?hpt=hp_t2...01/25/bts-santorum-colleges-against-faith.cnn
Click to expand...

Oh man.

Radical Secular ideology. Like what?

No government funding for schools? I guess Santorum only wants rich people going to school... does not help that republican stereotype.
 
S

Something Wicked

Member
Republicans just got another gift to hammer Team Obama on: Ener1, Battery Maker, Seeks Chapter 11 Bankruptcy Protectionl

By Phil Milford and Dawn McCarty
(Updates with Energy Department comment in fifth paragraph and shares in 18th paragraph.)

Jan. 26 (Bloomberg) -- Ener1 Inc., the owner of a company that received a $118 million U.S. Energy Department grant to make electric-car batteries, filed for bankruptcy protection after defaulting on bond debt amid heavy competition from Asia.

The company listed assets of $73.9 million and debt of $90.5 million as of Dec. 31 in Chapter 11 papers filed today in U.S. Bankruptcy Court in Manhattan. Ener1 has been affected by competing battery developers in China and South Korea, “which generally have a lower cost manufacturing base” and lower labor and raw material costs, interim Chief Executive Officer Alex Sorokin said in the petition.

Ener1, based in New York, makes lithium-ion batteries for plug-in electric cars, which were scrutinized by federal auto- safety officials after a General Motors Co. Chevrolet Volt caught fire, people familiar with the probe said in November. A two-month federal safety investigation cleared the Volt of danger, and GM is beginning a marketing effort to tout the car as safe and innovative.

Under President Barack Obama’s economic stimulus package, the Energy Department awarded grants in an attempt to create a U.S. electric-car industry. Ener1’s EnerDel unit, based in Indianapolis, was the grant recipient and has received about $55 million of its grant so far.
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If Obama worked for Bain Capital, I think the company may have gone bankrupt itself years ago.
 
T

Tawpgun

Member
Something Wicked said:
Republicans just got another gift to hammer Team Obama on: Ener1, Battery Maker, Seeks Chapter 11 Bankruptcy Protectionl



If Obama worked for Bain Capital, I think the company may have gone bankrupt itself years ago.
Click to expand...

Umm...

So Obama approved a Federal Grant to try and start an electric car industry, thus creating more jobs, helping environment etc.

And then the company goes and cuts corners leading to a dangerous product.

And its Obama's fault.

Want to explain how this is ammo for a republican attack cannon?
 
O

Oblivion

Fetishing muscular manly men in skintight hosery
Okay, general question about the housing stuff.

I thought I had a pretty decent grasp of the events that led up to the housing crash, at least as far as Wall Street's contributions. But I still don't understand what Fannie/Freddy's role was. The only thing I know about them is that 1) whatever contributions they had were relatively insignificant, and 2) the righties seem to hate them with a passion.

So what exactly was Fannie/Freddie's role in this and why should libs defend them?
 
I

Invisible_Insane

Member
Oblivion said:
Okay, general question about the housing stuff.

I thought I had a pretty decent grasp of the events that led up to the housing crash, at least as far as Wall Street's contributions. But I still don't understand what Fannie/Freddy's role was. The only thing I know about them is that 1) whatever contributions they had were relatively insignificant, and 2) the righties seem to hate them with a passion.

So what exactly was Fannie/Freddie's role in this and why should libs defend them?
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Some light reading.

Fannie and Freddie did many of the same things the banks did, but later and less. You can defend them if you think universal homeownership and the 30-year mortgage are really good things. The first is clearly not, the second is of dubious value.
 
D

Dr. Pangloss

Member
Something Wicked said:
Republicans just got another gift to hammer Team Obama on: Ener1, Battery Maker, Seeks Chapter 11 Bankruptcy Protectionl



If Obama worked for Bain Capital, I think the company may have gone bankrupt itself years ago.
Click to expand...

Still complaining about something that takes up 0.01% of the budget? I'm still waiting on the 2001 Bush Energy Task Force minutes to be publicized. But trying to invest in something to get off oil, especially that from foreign sources, is bad. Keep looking at the trees though instead of the forest.
 
X

XMonkey

lacks enthusiasm.
A27 Tawpgun said:
Umm...

So Obama approved a Federal Grant to try and start an electric car industry, thus creating more jobs, helping environment etc.

And then the company goes and cuts corners leading to a dangerous product.

And its Obama's fault.

Want to explain how this is ammo for a republican attack cannon?
Click to expand...
Sadly, those facts won't matter at all to a lot of Republicans.
 
S

Suikoguy

I whinny my fervor lowly, for his length is not as great as those of the Hylian war stallions
http://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...e/2012/01/26/gIQA8mU3TQ_story.html?tid=pm_pop

Wow, how did they manage to make this Obama's fault?

By David Nakamura and Rachel Weiner, Published: January 26

AURORA, Colo. — President Obama’s raw exchange with the governor of Arizona on an airport tarmac this week did more than overshadow his carefully stage-managed road trip to trumpet his State of the Union goals.

The discussion revealed a testy side of the president’s personality that is at odds with his public image as “no-drama Obama,” reviving criticism that he is unwilling to be second-guessed — or to even entertain another point of view.
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S

sharbhund

Member
Miletius said:
I think she's just done. I mean, she is a lot older (and looks it) and there's no way she's going to have another shot at the presidency. My guess is she gets a job at Bill's foundation or she goes into charity some other way. I guess consulting works too.

Somewhat of a changing of the guard moment coming here, as the older politicians I grew up with retire and make way for a newer squad of fresh faces.

My question is, who else is gonna take that job? Maybe Obama should offer it to Huntsman (lol).
Click to expand...

There were rumors that Kerry wanted the job after Obama won the election.
 
D

Dr. Pangloss

Member
I was thinking about these scandals that people try to drum up against Obama and wondered what really constituted one? Going from this list, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_federal_political_scandals_in_the_United_States, these seem to me to be the main executive abuses of power:

1. Pentagon Papers - LBJ and Nixon
2. Watergate - Nixon
3. Iran-Contra Affair - Reagan
4. Monica Lewinsky - Clinton
5. Lawyergate - Bush
6. Downing Street Memo - Bush
7. Torture - Bush
8. Valerie Plame - Bush

I think I need to stop with Bush. There are just too many. Also, one of those is not like the others. Obama's first term has been pretty tame in comparison to our history. But if people want to get mad about the careless spending of money, then look no further than losing billions dollars in Iraq with nothing to show for it.
 
S

Suikoguy

I whinny my fervor lowly, for his length is not as great as those of the Hylian war stallions
Arde5643 said:
The news actually has been showing how bullshit this is - see John King grilling dipshit Brewer on that one.
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I know, which makes this type of story even MORE bullshit.
 
B

Bulbo Urethral Baggins

Banned
Possibly bad economic times ahead

http://www.cnbc.com/id/46161344

The economy ended 2011 on a fairly positive note, but the composition of growth in the last quarter is not favorable for growth early this year," said Ryan Sweet, a senior economist at Moody's Analytics in West Chester, Pennsylvania.
Click to expand...

Also pointing to slower growth, business spending on capital goods was the slowest since 2009, a sign the debt crisis in Europe was starting to take its toll.
Expectations of soft growth led the Federal Reserve on Wednesday to say it expected to keep interest rates at rock bottom levels at least through late 2014.


The Fed warned the economy still faced big risks, a suggestion the euro zone debt crisis could still hit hard.

"The Fed is attempting to shield the economy from a potentially more severe recession in Europe," said Sweet. "Even though the economy improved last quarter there are a number of headwinds and a lot of uncertainty surrounding Europe, emerging markets and also U.S. fiscal policy."
Click to expand...
 
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