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NBA 2017 Playoffs |OT| WE DID IT

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Derwind

Member
Lowry is a free agent at the end of the season

Oh yeah, for some reason I thought Lowry still had a season left in his contract.

Down 2-1 "Let's blow the team up" LOL

If we get knocked out this round, hell fucking yes. If this is the best lineup we got and we're playing this bad (and we are, if it was just the other team being a better team, I doubt we'do be having this conversation), this team needs to get reshuffled.
 

KingBroly

Banned
Down 2-1 "Let's blow the team up" LOL

The Bucks played Psychological Warfare during the Player Intros. I can't imagine the Raptors doing much worse in Game 4.

It did happen during Game 3 of the 95 Finals between the Magic and Rockets, though. 'It's a Small World After All.' The NBA told them to not do that again. Didn't matter, though.
 

Ripenen

Member
Oh yeah, for some reason I thought Lowry still had a season left in his contract.



If we get knocked out this round, hell fucking yes. If this is the best lineup we got and we're playing this bad (and we are, if it was just the other team being a better team, I doubt we'do be having this conversation), this team needs to get reshuffled.

Blow it up for what though? What's available that will get better results?

Do you trade for some draft picks and add some rookies to your lineup? Might be cost effective but probably wouldn't put the team in a better position to win a championship in the next five years.
 
If we make a first round exit, Raptors just need to package JV & Lowry and rebuild. Also fire Casey.

Hire a Coach that can put the fear of God into Derozan so he can stop wasting so many possessions bricking and work on basic perimeter & help defense.

https://theringer.com/nba-d-league-coaching-pipeline-jerry-stackhouse-raptors-905-e64de539d32a

http://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/jerry-stackhouse-named-nba-d-league-coach-of-the-year/

In the D-league, a year after leaving his post as the Raptors' Assistant Coach and taking over the Raptors 905 in their 2nd year and becoming great at making players in a league where individual highlights is often what is focused on (because they all want to stand out) agree to a system of moving the ball around, etc.

Stackhouse should be taking over this year, no question. Raptors would've been better off if Casey was fired after 2015.

Lowry I'm not sure about. I really like many of the lineups where Lowry handles the ball less, where it's DeRozan and Tucker and Ibaka and Patterson that move the ball around well. I think Lowry can easily be a part of this, he often is tbh, but he also might be too trusted to handle the ball or something? DeRozan is at his best when he's distributing the ball, it seems to get the entire team moving the ball around.

Also, if Bucks win this series, they're going to be GREAT practice for the Cavs for that "we're gonna switch everything and make it feel like there are 6 defenders on the field" sort of defense

The Bucks played Psychological Warfare during the Player Intros. I can't imagine the Raptors doing much worse in Game 4.

It did happen during Game 3 of the 95 Finals between the Magic and Rockets, though. 'It's a Small World After All.' The NBA told them to not do that again. Didn't matter, though.

http://www.foxsports.com/nba/story/...his-elbow-sums-up-raptors-bucks-game-3-042017
 

Derwind

Member
Blow it up for what though? What's available that will get better results?

Do you trade for some draft picks and add some rookies to your lineup? Might be cost effective but probably wouldn't put the team in a better position to win a championship in the next five years.

Lowry's contract will be too bloated to support his tired play. Pure point guard's don't age very well in the league unless they start to specialize themselves.

Jonas is also worth trading now while his contract is still valuable. Picks & pieces might be worth it in the long run.

And fire Casey.

I'd wouldn't call that blowing up the team. Just shifting our focus a bit.

https://theringer.com/nba-d-league-coaching-pipeline-jerry-stackhouse-raptors-905-e64de539d32a

http://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/jerry-stackhouse-named-nba-d-league-coach-of-the-year/

In the D-league, a year after leaving his post as the Raptors' Assistant Coach and taking over the Raptors 905 in their 2nd year and becoming great at making players in a league where individual highlights is often what is focused on (because they all want to stand out) agree to a system of moving the ball around, etc.

Stackhouse should be taking over this year, no question. Raptors would've been better off if Casey was fired after 2015.

Lowry I'm not sure about. I really like many of the lineups where Lowry handles the ball less, where it's DeRozan and Tucker and Ibaka and Patterson that move the ball around well. I think Lowry can easily be a part of this, he often is tbh, but he also might be too trusted to handle the ball or something? DeRozan is at his best when he's distributing the ball, it seems to get the entire team moving the ball around.

Also, if Bucks win this series, they're going to be GREAT practice for the Cavs for that "we're gonna switch everything and make it feel like there are 6 defenders on the field" sort of defense

Agreed on Stackhouse, I'd much prefer him steering this team than Casey at this point.

Lowry is great when he's feeling it but I don't feel comfortable hedging my bets on his inconsistent play. Especially considering how much he is set to make.
 
Lowry's contract will be too bloated to support his tired play. Pure point guard's don't age very well in the league unless they start to specialize themselves.

Jonas is also worth trading now while his contract is still valuable. Picks & pieces might be worth it in the long run.

And fire Casey.

I'd wouldn't call that blowing up the team. Just shifting our focus a bit.

Valacuninas is gonna go, but his development has been hurt so much by Casey not playing him.

Ibaka and Tucker need to come back. Carroll's contract needs to be dropped somehow.

I want to see the entire series play out though.
 

Derwind

Member
Valacuninas is gonna go, but his development has been hurt so much by Casey not playing him.

Ibaka and Tucker need to come back. Carroll's contract needs to be dropped somehow.

I want to see the entire series play out though.

I'm still in this series but considering who we have 2nd round, this team needs to get reminded this isn't the regular season and quick.
 

Jacce

Banned
If Celtics claw their way back due to no playoff Rondo it would be short lived, Wizards would blow this mess of a Celtics team out of the water in round 2.
 
- Rondo out.
- Next game is on ESPN and not TNT
tenor.gif
 

CD'S BAR

Member
Bullshit (no pun). Was so excited for this series and, as a long-time Rondo fan, his return to form.

Sometimes the universe just says "fuck you."
 

Line_HTX

Member
Hmm, so if OKC/HOU go to Game 5 it's a 7 PM tip Tuesday if Cavs sweep, otherwise if Pacers stay alive then it's an 8:45 PM tip. Of course, Russell will have to not shit all over himself in the 4th quarter again.

Kind of hoping for a later tip to go again. All these 7 PM tips this season fucking sucked hardcore.
 

Slizeezyc

Member
Dunn or a first plus some later picks. Sorry if i wasn't clear



1. Why get Pek medically excempted when he has minimal value as an expiring contract. No FAs are going to Minnesota.

2. Towns is a PF/C he can play both positions in various lineups. JV is on a good contract and adds a big body who can protect the rim in big lineups vs teams like San Antonio, Clippers, Utah, OKC, Memphis, Denver. Plus some offense.

3. Dunn has retained some lottery pick value despite being trash and its suplimented by the value of Peks expiring contract and some late future firsts/ 2nds. (remember boogie just got traded for Buddy Heild a pick and an expiring contract) its the same deal for JV and is fair value.

4. Sacramento has too many players including 2 first round picks this season. One of them will be a PG. So they will want a backup on reasonable value since Collision and Lawson are expiring. (Joseph) They also need to clear minutes for Gay, Evans, Afflalo, Richardson, and a lottery pick at the wing positions. So Temple gets dumped for a more useful player at a position of need. Since affordable quality backup PGs are at a premium right now, it costs Sacramento a first round pick. Sacramento has the right to swap firsts with Toronto in 2018 should they want to. So Toronto get 2 picks out of SAC, Minny and Their own which are all likely to be in the 10-20 range.

Maybe my first post wasn't as detailed as it could have been, but everything is firmly within the range of accepted NBA value.

1. You get Pek medically exempted because it's cap space back for them. They have realistically this year and next before they're relatively capped out due to a Wiggins extension (maybe a LaVine one as well), plus a Towns extension. That Pek contract is an extra 11.5 million in cap space or so for this offseason. While I suspect expiring contracts will have a bit more value moving forward than they did the last couple years (cap is going back to normal increases now being the reasoning), it still pushes the Wolves to $40 million in space, which is a nice number to be at in order to offer a max if you want and still have some wiggle room. Whether or not they can get the FA is sort of irrelevant for now as it's still space you can use how you want to pursue opportunities.

2. Towns is a PF/C, Dieng is a PF. They start Towns with Dieng and gave Dieng money. Do you think they want someone who can only play center with Towns? Do you think they want an even worse rim protector playing at the rim so Towns can roam? Do you think Jonas and his 2.6% block rate are really going to change the equation at the rim? There's just not much logic here. The Wolves have all but signaled they care more about pairing someone like a Paul Millsap with Towns rather than a Jonas if they can have their wish. Maybe they end up getting a center at some point since it just costs less, but it's not how they seemingly want to go.

3. Nobody is the Kings but the fucking Kings. Don't compare anything they do to another franchise. And it's impossible to compare the trades either way because Boogie was months away from asking for the Super Max.

4. Gay is crippled and might opt out anyway. Tyreke Evans is a FA. Afflalo has a non-guarantee (like, you said Malachi, but just say Malachi and Hield and leave it at that rather than pointing to three veterans as reasoning for trading the cheapest and best of the four names in Temple). Temple is signed to what's turned into a team-friendly deal and has all but been deemed like the leader of the team. You're not getting swap rights and a useful player on the same type of friendly contract for a backup PG, friend. Joseph has 1-2 years left on a team-friendly deal, but the Kings have more money than they know what to do with as is.

None of this stuff you said, now in more detailed form, has any semblance of reasonable logic.
 
Aw fuck. Not like the Bulls were going far this year, but it's disappointing to know they have no chance next round if they even get past this round now.
 

Brandson

Member
Just like every year, the Raptors remain in desperate need of more variety in their offensive playbook. When a team can fully prepare for them in the postseason, it is way too easy to defeat everything the Raptors try to do on offense. The players for the most part aren't the problem. We need our own Pop disciple here.
 

Ripenen

Member
http://www.thedreamshake.com/2017/4/21/15378112/russell-westbrook-nba-mvp-james-harden-vote-tracking

Fucking bullshit

Ah, well, it's not like anyone remembers Robinson winning MVP after he was embarrassed in a 6 game series in the WCF on a 65+ win season, so whatever.

The media shouldn't be the ones voting on MVP or anything. For one they are not qualified. Two they tend to follow certain teams and players more closely than others so they are completely biased in their experience. Three they answer to readers/editors/bosses so they are going to make choices based on what will please that audience just so they don't get mocked on Twitter or whatever.
 

jdstorm

Banned
1. You get Pek medically exempted because it's cap space back for them. They have realistically this year and next before they're relatively capped out due to a Wiggins extension (maybe a LaVine one as well), plus a Towns extension. That Pek contract is an extra 11.5 million in cap space or so for this offseason. While I suspect expiring contracts will have a bit more value moving forward than they did the last couple years (cap is going back to normal increases now being the reasoning), it still pushes the Wolves to $40 million in space, which is a nice number to be at in order to offer a max if you want and still have some wiggle room. Whether or not they can get the FA is sort of irrelevant for now as it's still space you can use how you want to pursue opportunities.

2. Towns is a PF/C, Dieng is a PF. They start Towns with Dieng and gave Dieng money. Do you think they want someone who can only play center with Towns? Do you think they want an even worse rim protector playing at the rim so Towns can roam? Do you think Jonas and his 2.6% block rate are really going to change the equation at the rim? There's just not much logic here. The Wolves have all but signaled they care more about pairing someone like a Paul Millsap with Towns rather than a Jonas if they can have their wish. Maybe they end up getting a center at some point since it just costs less, but it's not how they seemingly want to go.

3. Nobody is the Kings but the fucking Kings. Don't compare anything they do to another franchise. And it's impossible to compare the trades either way because Boogie was months away from asking for the Super Max.

4. Gay is crippled and might opt out anyway. Tyreke Evans is a FA. Afflalo has a non-guarantee (like, you said Malachi, but just say Malachi and Hield and leave it at that rather than pointing to three veterans as reasoning for trading the cheapest and best of the four names in Temple). Temple is signed to what's turned into a team-friendly deal and has all but been deemed like the leader of the team. You're not getting swap rights and a useful player on the same type of friendly contract for a backup PG, friend. Joseph has 1-2 years left on a team-friendly deal, but the Kings have more money than they know what to do with as is.

None of this stuff you said, now in more detailed form, has any semblance of reasonable logic.

1. Who are the Kings getting? Who are they paying 40 million dollars that makes them instant contenders? Paul Millsap paying him would be about as bad as the Hawks paying 100 year old Iso Joe in 2010. The reality is NO MAX PLAYER IS GOING TO GO TO MINESOTTA and planning for that eventuality at the cost of getting a good affordable player is stupid.

2.Jonas last season was a better rim protector then Towns. Check the stats.
Jonas would only be useful situationally, but they are situations that will arise in the playoffs. Why not plan ahead?

3.Invalidating a trade that actually happened as being implausible is stupid.
3a. The Kings were involved in my second trade so you cant invalidate their involvement.
3b. OKC did that exact same deal for Serge Ibaka. Toronto even offered the reverse (Ross and pick 9) its a common deal type.

4.if Temple is your leader you arent going far
4a. Speculation on Gay's contract situation is a waste of time since you have no idea what he will or will not do.
4b. Ben McClemmore is a RFA and is likely going to stay should Aflalo and or Tyreeke not want to stay. Which still gives you a roster surplus. Unless you think Temple can play PF consistently
4c.Sacramento don't have an on contract PG and they arent a free agent destination. Every option they have availiable is either Old and wanting a big deal or Trash and wanting a big deal. Joseph is a risk mitigation stratergy. He's cool with being the backup and he's good at it.

5. Maybe don't critique my logic as invalid and then suggest Sacramento and Minnesota as Free Agent Destinations when almost every single team has cap space.
 

Zeke

Member
Man I hope Murray grows by leaps and bounds this offeseason. Spurs need serious help at pg, Tony having a vintage game every so often isn't going to cut it. Just a sloppy ass game for the entire team. Grizz played lights out the crowd was amazing too.
 
As a Houston fan, I'm not sure which team I would rather win the Spurs Grizz series. Both are tough matchups for us. Hmm.
Also fuck the fact that Harden will likely never get the MVP award. Dude's been snubbed like twice in the last three years.
 

ViciousDS

Banned
NNOOOOOOOOOOOOO


Rondo was playing so fucking good too, damn it!!!!!


its amazing as a bulls fan I'm sad for a Rondo injury, WHAT YEAR IS IT!
 

Slizeezyc

Member
1. Who are the Kings getting? Who are they paying 40 million dollars that makes them instant contenders? Paul Millsap paying him would be about as bad as the Hawks paying 100 year old Iso Joe in 2010. The reality is NO MAX PLAYER IS GOING TO GO TO MINESOTTA and planning for that eventuality at the cost of getting a good affordable player is stupid.

2.Jonas last season was a better rim protector then Towns. Check the stats.
Jonas would only be useful situationally, but they are situations that will arise in the playoffs. Why not plan ahead?

3.Invalidating a trade that actually happened as being implausible is stupid.
3a. The Kings were involved in my second trade so you cant invalidate their involvement.
3b. OKC did that exact same deal for Serge Ibaka. Toronto even offered the reverse (Ross and pick 9) its a common deal type.

4.if Temple is your leader you arent going far
4a. Speculation on Gay's contract situation is a waste of time since you have no idea what he will or will not do.
4b. Ben McClemmore is a RFA and is likely going to stay should Aflalo and or Tyreeke not want to stay. Which still gives you a roster surplus. Unless you think Temple can play PF consistently
4c.Sacramento don't have an on contract PG and they arent a free agent destination. Every option they have availiable is either Old and wanting a big deal or Trash and wanting a big deal. Joseph is a risk mitigation stratergy. He's cool with being the backup and he's good at it.

5. Maybe don't critique my logic as invalid and then suggest Sacramento and Minnesota as Free Agent Destinations when almost every single team has cap space.

1. You mean who are the Wolves getting? It doesn't matter if no max player ends up going to Minnesota either way. Your trade is shitty, it remains shitty. The point is they'd rather get someone like a Paul Millsap than a Jonas in terms of fit and style. They could trade for Jonas and still pursue a Millsap by the way, so they can do both if they want without involving Pek etc. The point is Minnesota has flexibility for this offseason and next before things tighten up or they have to decide to move different directions with core pieces.

2. Jonas beating a rookie in terms of rim protection would be the accepted norm. Last year, Jonas averaged 1.8 BPG (per 36) and had a BLK% of 4.2. Towns had a block percentage of 4.3 and and averaged 1.9 BPG. I could go and look up their contested numbers at NBA.com to maybe see where you think Jonas was the better rim protector, but since you're not even going far enough to say which "stats" prove your point, I'm making more effort than you as is here. And nothing changes the fact that Jonas is in no way a rim protector. At least, you're now accepting that Jonas is only useful in some situations, but how about the Wolves get to the Playoffs first before trying to fit bad-fitting pieces into their core. There's zero argument you made, beyond other West teams have some bigs, that shows how Jonas and Towns make any sense together. The Wolves have struggled with spacing this entire era, how does Jonas help that? How does Jonas help their pick and roll defense? You're not making logical sense.

3. No, you saying "well the Kings did this so my trade seems logical" is stupid. Buddy Hield was drafted after Dunn, and by all accounts Vivek wanted to have his children. Boogie was awaiting a massive payday. Nothing about those two elements shows how a Kris Dunn/Jonas swap with extra pieces involved is the same thing. There's nuance to trades and what people want. A Boogie situation was wholly unique. And the Kings are wholly unique with their fuckery. (PS, if Jonas was such a solid rim protector why did the Raptors go get Ibaka for a mid-20s pick and Ross?) Jonas is not Ibaka btw, or Boogie. He doesn't have the same value as he sucks much worse than them. Boogie has the Jonas weaknesses, but he's considered a million times the offensive player Jonas is.

4. No crap, the Kings aren't going far. Doesn't mean you just pretend their whole "locker room" focus thing is meaningless. They seem to want Temple around the young guys. I'm actually following what teams are saying publicly to inform what I say here, rather than just make up awful trades and prove how this gets the Raptors to contention as long as "luck" is on their side.

4a. Cool man, so maybe don't assume Gay's on the team then? You wrote it like it's a foregone conclusion, I was showing it's not.
4b. Stop making assumptions about player's contracts mannnnnn. You don't know what the Kings or McLemore will do. Temple/Hield/Malachi are the only guarantees for next season on the wing. Afflalo, Gay, Evans, Galloway, McLemore all have various forms of options or are free agents in some form. They have Skal as the only PF guarantee (though I imagine they will pick up Tolliver's option). I don't have any idea what the Kings will do because they're the Kings, but the roster as it is doesn't show a crunch yet. There's a draft, and FA and so on and once that's happened then they'll know where the crunch does and does not exist.
4c. They already use Temple as a backup PG some of the time. Out of all your insane trades, the Joseph on Sacramento does make some semblance of sense, but how you got there is still a mess, as I said. You're not getting swap rights and a player they like in Temple for Joseph when the salaries are the same and Temple has a potential extra year of salary. I'm well aware Collison/Lawson are free agents. There's also, again, a draft to see about since there's 19,000 PGs in it. Also, reminder, yes the Kings have two picks this year (assuming NO doesn't jump into top 3), but still owe a 2019 unprotected first to the Sixers. I don't think they want to be giving up swap rights when 2018 will be their only season to tank (if they choose to go that route).

5. I haven't hyped up Minnesota or Sacramento as destinations for free agents, but I did point out that teams rarely decide against having more cap space until they don't need it. Honestly, more what I've done is just try to explain why none of your moves make any sense. Also, spoiler: not every team has cap space next year -- not even close. This year was a one-time deal, the cap is already projected to come in much lower for the 2017/18 season, and on top of that, it won't be increasing as much year over year based on current projections.

You're out of your element man, just give in here. It's not worth dying on this hill.
 

Slizeezyc

Member
shit, I'd take this over MCW with Rondo out.......

Grant starting, Robinson off the bench

Bruh, trust me, you don't want to be about that Nate Rob life anymore.

(Also, can guys even sign for the postseason like that, would Nate even be playoff-eligible? I know there's the issue about signing guys after a certain date when they're bought out, but can't remember if it also applies to just basic free agents or guys who are caught).
 

ViciousDS

Banned
Bruh, trust me, you don't want to be about that Nate Rob life anymore.

(Also, can guys even sign for the postseason like that, would Nate even be playoff-eligible? I know there's the issue about signing guys after a certain date when they're bought out, but can't remember if it also applies to just basic free agents or guys who are caught).

A player signs with a team after March 23rd, having not played for an NBA team yet this season.
Eligible for postseason: Yes


hes eligable
 
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