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Penny Arcade 11/30/2007 Jeff Gerstmann fired from Gamespot, allegedly for K&L review

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S

SickBoy

Member
mosaic said:
There will be no mea culpa is my impression.

A mandatory meeting was held today and all in the room were told not to say one more word to the press.

My sources, who will continue to remain multiple and nameless, tell me no new information was given.

To paraphrase what was said: the situation was handled poorly, they didn't expect editorial to be so angry, and management had been unhappy with the direction of the site for the last year or so (specifically saying the executives' vision differed from the way the site was being run).

It's that last part that concerns me. Vision?
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I could totally understand if they said they wanted to change up Gamespot review style (theoretically that could be what new vision would refer too -- but I'm sure it isn't)... after reading the K&L review, I took a look a few older Gerstmann reviews, and I figured:

1) I didn't see what the big deal was with the K&L review.
2) That said, the reviews I did read all followed a formula that may have been filled with information, but had plenty of fat to cut... I also didn't think they were particularly well written. They're very clinical and sort of boring (I read the Bioshock and Twilight Princess reviews -- informative, sure, but if you compare them to some other sites, what I think you'd see missing is a sense of enthusiasm... I don't doubt that Jeff is enthusiastic about games, but it doesn't come across in his copy).

All that said, I don't think style is what this is about... and even if it was, whatever they say tomorrow (if indeed something's said), is going to fall on deaf ears. I'm curious as to how it all happened, but its just as interesting to marvel at how quickly an important online brand has been really badly damaged.
 
F

forgeforsaken

Member
Gary Whitta said:
And how I wonder will the exec who handled the situation so poorly, and wasn't able to predict the aftershocks that should have been so easy to foresee, be reprimanded? My guess is his nice fat commission checks and end-of-year bonuses will remain unaffected. It's good to be the king.
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He'll get a raise and a bonus.
 
G

gray_fox224

Junior Member
dirtmonkey37 said:
Okay, so the protest is real.

The man in charge has five confirmed participants on Sunday and Monday along with four on Saturday. I am speaking to him by means of AIM.

This is his user name: Drewtwo9999
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I can come Saturday. Are there any sign-ups?


can't use aim right now.

What the procedure going to be like? Time?
 
D

Diablos

Member
Over the last year there has been an increasing amount of pressure to allow the advertising teams to have more of a say in the editorial process; we've started having to give our sales team heads-ups when a game is getting a low score, for instance, so that they can let the advertisers know that before a review goes up. Other publishers have started giving us notes involving when our reviews can go up; if a game's getting a 9 or above, it can go up early; if not, it'll have to wait until after the game is on the shelves.
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Do we live in a communist state? What the fuck, GameSpot?

If I was Jeff Gerstmann, I'd be on the phone with lawyers all day plotting to sue the everlovin' shit out of GameSpot and the corporate whores who were behind the unquestionably illicit act that is his firing.

Unreal.
 
D

dirtmonkey37

flinging feces ---->
gray_fox224 said:
I can come Saturday. Are there any sign-ups?


can't use aim right now.

What the procedure going to be like? Time?
Click to expand...

All three days the protest starts at 12 pm and will be done with at 5 pm.

If you cannot use AIM, use meebo.com as a substitute for contacting DrewTwo9999 (AIM screen name).

Common Bay Area GAF, it's time to show some support.
 
G

gray_fox224

Junior Member
dirtmonkey37 said:
All three days the protest starts at 12 pm and will be done with at 5 pm.

If you cannot use AIM, use meebo.com as a substitute for contacting DrewTwo9999 (AIM screen name).
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Actually, I can use AIM now.
Will contact him, thanks for the info


Any other Gaffers heading out?
 
G

gray_fox224

Junior Member
dirtmonkey37 said:
All three days the protest starts at 12 pm and will be done with at 5 pm.

If you cannot use AIM, use meebo.com as a substitute for contacting DrewTwo9999 (AIM screen name).

Common Bay Area GAF, it's time to show some support.
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Will you be there on Saturday?
 
R

Ravidrath

Member
mosaic said:
There will be no mea culpa is my impression.

A mandatory meeting was held today and all in the room were told not to say one more word to the press.

My sources, who will continue to remain multiple and nameless, tell me no new information was given.

To paraphrase what was said: the situation was handled poorly, they didn't expect editorial to be so angry, and management had been unhappy with the direction of the site for the last year or so (specifically saying the executives' vision differed from the way the site was being run).

It's that last part that concerns me. Vision?
Click to expand...

Yeah, OK, if this is their attitude, then Gamespot is fucked, at least as far as this audience is concerned.

But, sadly, it makes sense. When all the C|Net execs left for their stock backdating scandal, a new suite of douches were brought in to replace them. Not having any idea what the site was really about (assuming they even understood it), they sought to put their mark on it. The site is already quite profitable, but that's never enough for the traditional business dweeb, who have recently rebranded Gamespot as "entertainment and lifestyle," along with mp3.com, chow.com and tv.com.

While there's no reason to think that the old C|Net crew would never have gone in this direction to try to make more money, they probably would've have the history and understanding of the site to handle it with a bit more grace.

Clearly management there thinks they still have the upper hand. The staff really should just walk out, or refuse to produce any content until their concerns are addressed. Management can't really staff up new people that quickly, and even if they could replace everyone, the site would be dead anyway.
 
R

Ravidrath

Member
Gary Whitta said:
And how I wonder will the exec who handled the situation so poorly, and wasn't able to predict the aftershocks that should have been so easy to foresee, be reprimanded? My guess is his nice fat commission checks and end-of-year bonuses will remain unaffected. It's good to be the king.
Click to expand...

Bush has already ordered Josh Larson his Congressional Medal of Freedom, I hear.
 
D

dirtmonkey37

flinging feces ---->
gray_fox224 said:
Will you be there on Saturday?
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I may.

This is my AIM account for anyone who wants to speak with me (note: this is not my protest. It is being led by an individual with the name of Drew Watson. He is apparently making the nine-hour drive from Oregon to San Francisco. There is an ad for the protest in the SF Chronicle, the largest newspaper in the Bay Area).

Junkymonkey360

Protest Leader's AIM:

DrewTwo9999
 
S

Sinatar

Official GAF Bottom Feeder
Not sure if this has been posted yet, but Eidos directly lied on their website about scores the game got.

57n3c29awk8lm5bq8rbibj8g.gif


http://www.gamebump.com/go/official_****_and_*****_website_lies_about_its_scores
 
D

dirtmonkey37

flinging feces ---->
Ravidrath said:
While I'm not against the idea of a protest, why is it on Saturday when no one is in the office...?
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Ask the man who is in charge.

I'm thinking he chose the day as such because he's trying to get as many participants as possible, who are, as you mentioned, not in their offices on Saturday etc. I'm guessing he doesn't want to put anyone at a disadvantage, asking them to trade work for a day of protesting.
 
O

Opus Angelorum

Member
Sinatar said:
http://www.gamebump.com/go/official_****_and_*****_website_lies_about_its_scores
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The **** & ***** webpage also lists a quote from Game Informer: "A mercenary, a psychopath, & a bundle of cash... what could go wrong?" and also lists it with a 5-star rating. That quote also does not appear in Game Informer's review, it seems to be pulled from an early preview. And if you guessed that Game Informer's actual review gave the game a 5-star score, you'd be both wrong and stupid. They gave it a 7/10.
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Eidos are suddenly not so innocent.
 
S

Spire

Subconscious Brolonging
Wow. Eidos must have really been banking on this game being a success if their marketing department has jumped this far off the tracks.
 
E

El-Suave

Member
Sinatar said:
Not sure if this has been posted yet, but Eidos directly lied on their website about scores the game got.

57n3c29awk8lm5bq8rbibj8g.gif


http://www.gamebump.com/go/official_****_and_*****_website_lies_about_its_scores
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I would think the quote is to be found in one of the previews or was said on a videoshow or podcast. Those are usually quite an endorsement.

When some GSpot forum member asked why the review of M&S at the Olympic Games was much more negative while the preview writers seemed to like the game the editor who wrote the review replied that both editors who previewed the game didn't like it at all but they aren't supposed to be too negative in previews because the game can change. That seems to be a common policy not just for GS (see the good Lair previews) but if there are problems, why can't a preview describe them publicly? They don't need to nitpick on an unfinished product but at least give some real opinion on the game.
 
N

nightowl

Member
Holy sh*t the hubris!

The reference to "5 stars" from Game Informer and GameSpy is on their site still, even now after all of this junk.

REGARDLESS of the Gerstmann firing it's hard to imagine a fantasy land in which Edios is some sort of innocent bystander in all of this.
 
O

Opus Angelorum

Member
El-Suave said:
I would think the quote is to be found in one of the previews or was said on a videoshow or podcast.
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I understand that is common practice, especially in the film industry.

Fabricating scores though? Wow.
 
G

Grecco

Member
IF you go to the website. they have the Game Informer cover where the "waht could go wrong" qoute is from... .and every qoute has five stars in front of it... its shady but not outright lies.
 
M

Marlowe

Member
El-Suave said:
I would think the quote is to be found in one of the previews or was said on a videoshow or podcast. Those are usually quite an endorsement (the GS crew seems to love their "Heat").
When some GS forum member asked why the review of M&S at the Olympic Games was much more negative while the preview writers seemed to like the game the editor who wrote the review replied that both editors who previewed the game didn't like it at all but they aren't supposed to be too negative in previews because the game can change. That seems to be a common policy not just for GS (see the good Lair previews) but if there are problems, why can't a preview describe them publicly? They don't need to nitpick on an unfinished product but at least give some real opinion on the game.
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Oh sure, go ahead and write honest previews and watch Dyack cry... that's what you want, isn't it? :D
 
N

nightowl

Member
El-Suave said:
I would think the quote is to be found in one of the previews or was said on a videoshow or podcast. Those are usually quite an endorsement (the GS crew seems to love their "Heat").
When some GS forum member asked why the review of M&S at the Olympic Games was much more negative while the preview writers seemed to like the game the editor who wrote the review replied that both editors who previewed the game didn't like it at all but they aren't supposed to be too negative in previews because the game can change. That seems to be a common policy not just for GS (see the good Lair previews) but if there are problems, why can't a preview describe them publicly? They don't need to nitpick on an unfinished product but at least give some real opinion on the game.
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Sure, but how many previews give out "stars"? I was joking before, but I'm now actually thinking someone there was self-justifying the use as part of the asthetic.

My oh my.
 
Joe Molotov

Joe Molotov

Member
BTW, although that blurb may have come from a preview, the closest they come to saying anything like that in their review is:

Many parts of **** & ***** feel strongly reminiscent of Michael Mann-style action films.
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Edit: I found the quote, it was from preview of an early build from June 27th.
 
E

El-Suave

Member
Marlowe said:
Oh sure, go ahead and write honest previews and watch Dyack cry... that's what you want, isn't it? :D
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Too Human is a very special game; I wouldn't want to touch that right now but I like the "call it as you see it" attitude the 1upYours crew has. So they hyped up the current NFS and paddled back now that it's out and not so good; and they predicted Bioshock could/would fail, but that's fair when that's how they saw it at the time. It's your own fault if you buy/don't buy a game based on that.
 
A

Atlagev

Member
Grecco said:
IF you go to the website. they have the Game Informer cover where the "waht could go wrong" qoute is from... .and every qoute has five stars in front of it... its shady but not outright lies.
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The out-of-context quotes I could deal with... Ebert has talked about how he'll say something like, "If you see one Adam Sandler movie, this is the one to see!" and how they'll spin that positively in the print ads. But...fabricating scores? If they gave that quote and then put four stars after it when Ebert only gave it two, I would be suing for libel if I was him.

I know sometimes film studios go to dubious sources to get a four-star review, etc., but this is on another level. I am really left speechless over this whole thing. On all levels, some really weird s*** has gone down.
 
PkunkFury

PkunkFury

Member
Spire said:
Wow. Eidos must have really been banking on this game being a success if their marketing department has jumped this far off the tracks.
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They most definitely were. I can't believe how many times I've seen TV ads for this game. More than Mario Galaxy, Assassin's Creed and the new PS3 montage combined. I rarely watch TV but I've caught the ad like 6 times. And I had never heard of the game until this scandal. Seems to me they really intended to push this game hard. I wonder how big the marketing budget was in comparison to the development budget?
 
N

nightowl

Member
Grecco said:
IF you go to the website. they have the Game Informer cover where the "waht could go wrong" qoute is from... .and every qoute has five stars in front of it... its shady but not outright lies.
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Oh sure, I understand the quote, but the inclusion of "stars"? That isn't shady, given the context and the obvious implication that the stars were indicative of a score given to their product, I believe it is an outright lie.

We have some experienced people from the publishing side of things (Whitta/MC Saftey/hclflow), how do you guys see this?
 
N

nightowl

Member
perfectchaos007 said:
If any of you guys had paid subscriptions to Gamespot I would ask for all your money back since you weren't getting fair reviews or media.
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Actually considering they apparently fired someone to improve the "tone" of their reviews you could argue that you probably have been getting more accurate reviews then what they would like you to see moving forwardt. :)
 
G

Gerald

Member
ronito said:
Well I'll be.

Makes me wanna buy a copy just so I can start a class action suit. "They said their game was a 5 star game and it was at best a 3 star game and they knew it! I demand my two other stars!"
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We're investigating this.
 
PkunkFury

PkunkFury

Member
Is it true that this game actually had its release date moved up a few months? Usually release dates are moved back so I find this hard to believe. If it's true, smells like another marketing move. I know we have a lot of developers on this board. How often do you guys move release dates up?
 
S

Shalashaska

Member
Just posted on Gamespot.
http://www.*************/news/6183603.html?action=convert&om_clk=latestnews&tag=latestnews;title;0
Gerstmann, GameSpot part ways
After nearly 11 years of news, reviews, and previews, editorial director's tenure ends; GameSpot editors address controversy surrounding his departure.


The past week marked the end of an era at GameSpot. After over a decade in a variety of editorial roles, Jeff Gerstmann's tenure as editorial director has ended.

"Jeff was a central figure in the creation and evolution of GameSpot, having written hundreds of previews and reviews, and anchoring much of our multimedia content," said Ricardo Torres, editorial director of previews and events. "The award-winning editorial team he leaves behind wish him nothing but good luck in his future endeavors."

Due to legal constraints and the company policy of GameSpot parent CNET Networks, details of Gerstmann's departure cannot be disclosed publicly. However, contrary to widespread and unproven reports, his exit was not a result of pressure from an advertiser.

"Neither CNET Networks nor GameSpot has ever allowed its advertising business to affect its editorial content," said Greg Brannan, CNET Networks Entertainment's vice president of programming. "The accusations in the media that it has done so are unsubstantiated and untrue. Jeff's departure stemmed from internal reasons unrelated to any buyer of advertising on GameSpot."

"Though he will be missed by his colleagues, Jeff's leaving does not affect GameSpot's core mission of delivering the most timely news, video content, in-depth previews, and unbiased reviews in games journalism," said Ryan MacDonald, executive producer of GameSpot Live. "GameSpot is an institution, and its code of ethics and duty to its users remains unchanged."

Tune in later in the week to hear editors' tributes to Gerstmann on the HotSpot podcast and GameSpot's weekly Webcast, On the Spot.
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PkunkFury

PkunkFury

Member
Gamespot said:
Due to legal constraints and the company policy of GameSpot parent CNET Networks, details of Gerstmann's departure cannot be disclosed publicly. However, contrary to widespread and unproven reports, his exit was not a result of pressure from an advertiser.

"Neither CNET Networks nor GameSpot has ever allowed its advertising business to affect its editorial content," said Greg Brannan, CNET Networks Entertainment's vice president of programming. "The accusations in the media that it has done so are unsubstantiated and untrue. Jeff's departure stemmed from internal reasons unrelated to any buyer of advertising on GameSpot."
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well that about settles it. The official word is in and it looks like things aren't exactly how the rumors portrayed them to be. This is why you shouldn't jump to conclusions folks. It's a good thing we got soem first hand information. Time to pack this thread up. Also, it's nice to see they're going to give Jeff decent send off after all of the trouble this has caused.
 
M

mosaic

go eat paint
kylej said:
that Ryan quote reads like he had a gun to his head when he wrote it
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It totally doesn't sound like the Ryan MacDonald that I've had the pleasure of interacting with on infrequent occasion... my first reaction when I saw it was, "oh... my... what?!"

I tried to ask about it and got a firm "no comment."

After a while, something dawned on me. Pay attention to the wording. "GameSpot's core mission." You'll note CNet's core mission isn't mentioned.

Maybe I'm being too cynical?
 
S

Spire

Subconscious Brolonging
PkunkFury said:
well that about settles it. The official word is in and it looks like things aren't exactly how the rumors portrayed them to be. This is why you shouldn't jump to conclusions folks. It's a good thing we got soem first hand information. Time to pack this thread up. Also, it's nice to see they're going to give Jeff decent send off after all of the trouble this has caused.
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You're daft if you think CNET would ever admit that the rumor was true. Anyone surprised that CNET is in full denial mode needs their head checked.
 
N

nestea

Member
PkunkFury said:
well that about settles it. The official word is in and it looks like things aren't exactly how the rumors portrayed them to be. This is why you shouldn't jump to conclusions folks. It's a good thing we got soem first hand information. Time to pack this thread up. Also, it's nice to see they're going to give Jeff decent send off after all of the trouble this has caused.
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This is what Cnet has been saying all along. They didn't fire Jeff due to advertiser tension, they did so because of the "tone" of his reviews which we heard already and we've already concluded that is BS.

This "news" doesn't help clear up anything, just reaffirming what Cnet has been spouting all along.
 
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