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QuantumSquid · May 19, 2017

I would organize the most popular drugs into the following groups:

Totally Fine As Long As You Don't Take Too Much At Once:

Weed
Alcohol

Fine As Long As You're In a Safe Environment and Have Friends Nearby:

LSD
Ecstasy

Stay Away:

Heroin
Cocaine
Meth
Nicotine

That's a reasonable way of looking at it, I think. You could arguably combine the first two segments into one with both requirements (safe environment, friends nearby).

bootsthecat · May 19, 2017

sazzy said:
Stop giving Narcan out like candy, the problem solves itself

It's unreasonable in a civil society to have the ability to save a human life, as Narcan regularly does, and withhold its use to 'teach some junkies a lesson'. Can't close that box now that it exists. I can understand the frustration with folks seeing users face death multiple times, just to be revived again and again...but you just can't go letting people die of poison while you stand in front of them with the antidote.

IrishNinja · May 19, 2017

Lunar15 said:
I live in South Florida, which is basically the "Rehab" capital of America. It's a really fucked up system where these companies are making money hand over fist while they churn out "patients" that go right back into addiction.

wait, can you expand on this?

sazzy said:
Stop giving Narcan out like candy, the problem solves itself

...so if rescuers find a potential OD, they should let them go? that's absurd

teruterubozu · May 19, 2017

sazzy said:
Stop giving Narcan out like candy, the problem solves itself

Yeah people take heroin because of the Narcan safety net. Roll-fucking-eyes.

Malreyn · May 19, 2017

sazzy said:
Stop giving Narcan out like candy, the problem solves itself

Taking away Narcan solves what exactly? Scaring people into thinking there's no way to save them from overdosing, thus they'll just suddenly stop taking heroin?

blanchot · May 19, 2017

horrible stuff, avoid it all costs. even out of curiosity it's not worth it.

Summer Haze · May 19, 2017

cj_iwakura said:
I said drug use. It's all bad.

Only a Sith deals in absolutes.

Bobnob · May 19, 2017

NandoGip said:
I've grown up surrounded by drugs and dealers, weed (obv), pills, coke/crack, molly/e, acid, shrooms, etc blah blah blah.

Out of all drugs, pill smokers, meth users, and heroin users get no sympathy from me. Unless some doctor over prescribed you and caused the addiction, for someone to pursue pills/heroin/meth knowing what happens, you gotta be straight up stupid.

I still advocate for treatment though.

That's the probem though, i have old freinds who took heroin from a young age 17/18 (one of which died recently 40yo). I'm sure if they/he knew how life would of pan out for them back then when i was trying to convince him to stop they would of listened instead of thinking of the buzz they were getting at that time.Its a shitty drug and dealers should get life sentences, because that is what there handing out in most cases.

Dany · May 19, 2017

sazzy said:
Stop giving Narcan out like candy, the problem solves itself

Ok Jeff sessions.

Fisty · May 19, 2017

QuantumSquid said:
I would organize the most popular drugs into the following groups:

Totally Fine As Long As You Don't Take Too Much At Once:

Weed

Alcohol

Fine As Long As You're In a Safe Environment and Have Friends Nearby:

LSD

Ecstasy

Stay Away:

Heroin

Cocaine

Meth

Nicotine

That's a reasonable way of looking at it, I think. You could arguably combine the first two segments into one with both requirements (safe environment, friends nearby).

The worst thing that could happen if you take too much weed is you wake up a few hours later and can't figure out why your fridge is empty.

bootsthecat · May 19, 2017

Malreyn said:
Taking away Narcan solves what exactly? Scaring people into thinking there's no way to save them from overdosing, thus they'll just suddenly stop taking heroin?

That's the really unfortunate thing here- what you describe would happen much more often (maybe not suddenly, but exponentially more likely to seek treatment) were Narcan not to exist.

The mindset today is, "Hey maybe this is fentanyl!?! Who fucking cares, worst case we can just take a shot or two of Narcan, and live to score another day!" Here in NH at least, you can even get it without a prescription. But alas, Narcan is a thing. And we have to deal with it.

Snowybreak · May 19, 2017

bootsthecat said:
That's the really unfortunate thing here- what you describe would happen much more often (maybe not suddenly, but exponentially more likely to seek treatment) were Narcan not to exist.

The mindset today is, "Hey maybe this is fentanyl!?! Who fucking cares, worst case we can just take a shot or two of Narcan, and live to score another day!" Here in NH at least, you can even get it without a prescription. But alas, Narcan is a thing. And we have to deal with it.

Not really. People wouldn't take less drugs just because the antidote was cut off. If anything it would cause even more problems. A common recurring pattern with successful treatment hasn't been overzealous control, it has been creating safe injection sites and proper care.

You wanna get the junkies to clean up? Care for them, don't try to hurt them further.

perfectchaos007 · May 19, 2017

My cousin is a heroin addict and it has ruined his life. He has burned just about every bridge he had left after being given a countless number of chances to change his life around. One of his last resorts was asking our grandmother if he could live with her. She has dementia and happily said yes. But he even stole from her when she slept and used her car to pick up drugs before coming back. He then went to a recovery center where he was kicked out for dealing drugs in the recovery center. He really needs to be in jail but somehow he has avoided it.

bootsthecat · May 19, 2017

Snowybreak said:
Not really. People wouldn't take less drugs just because the antidote was cut off. If anything it would cause even more problems. A common recurring pattern with successful treatment hasn't been overzealous control, it has been creating safe injection sites and proper care.

You wanna get the junkies to clean up? Care for them, don't try to hurt them further.

What can I tell you, I personally see the mindset I describe day in and day out. If you have a good chance of dying of something, you're gonna take some precautions. Something like Narcan takes the risk away almost completely in regards to opiate overdose. Addicts are aware, and act accordingly.

Condom · May 19, 2017

Heroin is really comforting in general but especially if you aren't satisfied in life, people with other important things going on can't give that up for it. Those with lives where giving things up for heroin would be a net benefit in short term feelings. It's a mental health and quality of life issue.

Snowybreak · May 19, 2017

bootsthecat said:
What can I tell you, I personally see the mindset I describe day in and day out. If you have a good chance of dying of something, you're gonna take some precautions. Something like Narcan takes the risk away almost completely in regards to opiate overdose. Addicts are aware, and act accordingly.

Just because addicts are aware of narcan doesn't mean they're going to ramp up intake. Shit's not cheap. They aren't going to knowingly overdose over and over again just because there is a cure. You are trying to build the idea of an addict who is living for addiction. Most addicts aren't happy to be addicts, but they keep doing it because it really does feel that good.

Condom said:
Heroin is really comforting in general but especially if you aren't satisfied in life, people with other important things going on can't give that up for it. Those with lives where giving things up for heroin would be a net benefit in short term feelings. It's a mental health and quality of life issue.

Exactly, which is why treatment within a positive and welcoming environment is necessary, and not demonization and scorn.

grap3fruitman · May 19, 2017

cj_iwakura said:
There is no chance in hell I'm ever going to encourage someone to take LSD.

Just took some L because of this post.

Edit: and three edibles

Two Words · May 19, 2017

Username1198 said:
Show me where any gaf member has encouraged heroine use, get real, we like weed.

Says you, weed helps me with depression and anxiety better than any other method. And weeds legal in ca so yea.

Self-medication with drugs, even weed, doesn't sound like a good thing.

The Greek Freak · May 19, 2017

Welcome to 10 years ago?

Formerly middle class towns across the country have turned into dozens of empty buildings, heroin, and no sniff of any of the economic recovery that came post Bush.

It's not just the south either, for example Western Mass is heroine fucking city.

Snowybreak · May 19, 2017

Two Words said:
Self-medication with drugs, even weed, doesn't sound like a good thing.

Throughout human history, people have used various medicinal concoctions and herbs through self treatment or suggested treatment. The concept of a prescription and current medicine is rather new. If it works for someone, like how smoking weed helps my depression and anxiety, why would you question their usage?

bootsthecat · May 19, 2017

Snowybreak said:
Just because addicts are aware of narcan doesn't mean they're going to ramp up intake. Shit's not cheap. They aren't going to knowingly overdose over and over again just because there is a cure. You are trying to build the idea of an addict who is living for addiction. Most addicts aren't happy to be addicts, but they keep doing it because it really does feel that good.

We're gonna have to agree to disagree man, but pls don't put words in my mouth about ideas I'm trying to build.

The game in general has changed, at least in my neck of the woods. The powerful synthetic stuff has become the norm. Our mortality rate would be through the roof, had it not been for Narcan. Users would face some pretty sobering truths if all their friends were dead, and would confront their demons sooner rather than...never. Not the ideal reason/time to seek treatment, but I'm very confident it would be the case for more than a few.

Also, after a relatively short period of time most don't do it to feel good...just to not feel bad. I put 120mg of 30 blues up my nose for 3 years, I get it.

CharminUltra · May 19, 2017

grap3fruitman said:
Edit: and three edibles

Yeah, son.

YourMaster · May 20, 2017

IrishNinja said:
...so if rescuers find a potential OD, they should let them go? that's absurd

If you have to save somebody from an OD it would be a consideration to forcibly admit them into a program that not only kicks the drugs, but also gets their life on the rails again and addresses the problem that got them into using the drugs in the first place.

But I have to admit that simply letting drug users die, or actively killing them doesn't really seem like much of a step down from the current policy. (This is a criticism of the current system, not a defense of that alternative)

riotous · May 20, 2017

Step 1: Over-prescribe Oxycodone based products
Step 2: Crack down on over-prescribing Oxycodone based products
Step 3: Heroin use skyrockets
Step 4: ???

That's how it is here in Washington at least; I'm not saying that the crackdown on doctors was a bad idea (although a lot of legit pain patients suffer), but tons of oxy junkies suddenly having prices skyrocket and/or supply completely dry up really drove a lot of people to heroin here.

RoyaleDuke · May 20, 2017

Lost someone I used to know as a kid not too long ago to a heroin and pill overdose.

Shit is deadly man. Straight poison.

When I was in high school heroin and pills, codeine syrup were all really popular. It was hard to really find anyone doing weed.

IrishNinja · May 20, 2017

YourMaster said:
If you have to save somebody from an OD it would be a consideration to forcibly admit them into a program that not only kicks the drugs, but also gets their life on the rails again and addresses the problem that got them into using the drugs in the first place.

But I have to admit that simply letting drug users die, or actively killing them doesn't really seem like much of a step down from the current policy. (This is a criticism of the current system, not a defense of that alternative)

that'd be something, but the system doesn't currently work like that - rescue's resources on most things like that are limited to giving out phone #'s and such, there's not often a handoff to another agency when a call's complete unless something criminal has happened

umop_3pisdn · May 20, 2017

YourMaster said:
If you have to save somebody from an OD it would be a consideration to forcibly admit them into a program that not only kicks the drugs, but also gets their life on the rails again and addresses the problem that got them into using the drugs in the first place.

While that's well-intentioned, I think that faces some problems that at least for now are insurmountable. Particularly that counselling and therapy operate on the expectation that you can't lead people into any kind of personal realization about themselves or their problems. In fact how or why people wake up to their problems is still pretty hard to account for. And maybe that's because a lot about addiction and dysfunctions in personality are mysterious to us. For us to institute mandatory addiction treatment we'd probably have to have a treatment for addiction that's far more effective or satisfying than those we have now, so recovery becomes a more convincing proposition (maybe by actually curing the underlying problem that leads to addiction behaviour), otherwise people will probably just resist having treatment forced on them.

Subpar Scrub · May 20, 2017

ElectricBlanketFire said:
This board encourages hardcore drug use?

There was a thread months ago where I remember some people arguing that being able to buy heroin or meth or whatever from a pharmacy should be legal, but other than that most of Gaf just seems to like weed. Which is pretty fine.

I wish marijuana was legal in Australia. I wouldn't personally use it, but I know people who would benefit.

BBboy20 · May 21, 2017

cj_iwakura said:
Funny, this board encourages drug use. Its part of the problem.

You disappoint me. =/

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