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"Aggressive vegans" are putting off people from changing eating habits, study finds
- Thread starter DiipuSurotu
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Sparkedglory
Member
Nothing wrong with being vegan, also nothing wrong with eating meat. Nobody on either side should really be judging.
Sunster
Member
I'm saying people just having the idea of aggressive vegans in their head while having never met one is enough to make them do nothing about their eating habits regardless of it benefiting a cruel system that simultaneously destroys the Earth. "meat industry is bad, but vegans are mean. so i guess I'm getting BBQ tonight!"
Amibguous Cad
Member
Yeah, I've never met one of these aggressive vegans in person, no matter how coastal my environs get. I don't even see them engagelizing on Facebook or anonymous social media. I see PETA ads and that's about it.
The truth is there's nothing that vegans can do that would not make us omnivores feel uncomfortable. No amount of civility can hide the fact that, at base, their lifestyle is a rebuke to the morality of the majority of society. A majority that certainly harbors, in the back of their mind, a suspicion though not conviction that the vegans are right and they should stop eating meat, but can't or won't. And who resent being reminded of that fact, whether by some asshole waving pictures of factory farming in their face, or just an acquaintance that needs a vegan option at a family meal.
Just by existing vegans are going to provoke this kind of reaction. It doesn't matter how representative PETA is of the overall movement.
Personally, I respect the kind of moral commitment it takes to make such a significant lifestyle change. And I'm pretty sure that once vat grown meat becomes as tasty and economical as the real thing, within a generation people will not look kindly on our farming practices today, whether they're correct or incorrect about that.
The truth is there's nothing that vegans can do that would not make us omnivores feel uncomfortable. No amount of civility can hide the fact that, at base, their lifestyle is a rebuke to the morality of the majority of society. A majority that certainly harbors, in the back of their mind, a suspicion though not conviction that the vegans are right and they should stop eating meat, but can't or won't. And who resent being reminded of that fact, whether by some asshole waving pictures of factory farming in their face, or just an acquaintance that needs a vegan option at a family meal.
Just by existing vegans are going to provoke this kind of reaction. It doesn't matter how representative PETA is of the overall movement.
Personally, I respect the kind of moral commitment it takes to make such a significant lifestyle change. And I'm pretty sure that once vat grown meat becomes as tasty and economical as the real thing, within a generation people will not look kindly on our farming practices today, whether they're correct or incorrect about that.
I'm a vegan, so make of that what you will.
I just wanted to add/reiterate two points: I think the aggressive vegan is largely a caricature. Sure, some exist, but the VAST majority of vegans I've met aren't screaming about how meat is murder at you while drowning your car in red paint. I think this is largely a way of distancing some of the uglier sides of meat consumption onto some strawman so that it's easier to combat veganism than to hear out some of the ideas from the more rational vegan.
The other thing is I get so much fucking shit for being a vegan and it's really damn annoying, so these "aggressive" acts are probably, in large part, someone just reacting to the billionth comment about their diet for the day. If coworkers go out for lunch, they'll make a point about making sure there's beef or something in my meal, or that if I seem frustrated at work they'll comment that I probably just need to eat some meat. Or the worst is when people say they just want "normal" food as if my soup and salad isn't normal.
Lastly, vegans hate the preachiest bunch too. Like, I just want to eat some food, I don't really make a big commentary about what I eat. If someone comes to me with questions about veganism I'll entertain them, but I really don't care about preaching like so many seem to think I do.
I just wanted to add/reiterate two points: I think the aggressive vegan is largely a caricature. Sure, some exist, but the VAST majority of vegans I've met aren't screaming about how meat is murder at you while drowning your car in red paint. I think this is largely a way of distancing some of the uglier sides of meat consumption onto some strawman so that it's easier to combat veganism than to hear out some of the ideas from the more rational vegan.
The other thing is I get so much fucking shit for being a vegan and it's really damn annoying, so these "aggressive" acts are probably, in large part, someone just reacting to the billionth comment about their diet for the day. If coworkers go out for lunch, they'll make a point about making sure there's beef or something in my meal, or that if I seem frustrated at work they'll comment that I probably just need to eat some meat. Or the worst is when people say they just want "normal" food as if my soup and salad isn't normal.
Lastly, vegans hate the preachiest bunch too. Like, I just want to eat some food, I don't really make a big commentary about what I eat. If someone comes to me with questions about veganism I'll entertain them, but I really don't care about preaching like so many seem to think I do.
Inferno313
Banned
Didn't say that they were, just pointing out that as a similar kind of tone policing.
Zelenogorsk
Banned
Anecdotal I know but I work at a vegetarian/vegan restaurant where a lot of my coworkers are vegan and in my four years there I've never met one that even comes close to being "aggressive" or "militant".
As a meat eater myself my eating habits are a product of the taste of food, not the opinion of others.
As a meat eater myself my eating habits are a product of the taste of food, not the opinion of others.
starchild excalibur
Member
I'm not a vegan, but it seems like the idea of "aggressive vegans" is incredibly more common than literal aggressive vegans. Online I definitely see more jokes and memes at the expense of aggressive vegans than I see actual aggressive vegans putting forth their beliefs. It's like people just assume that if you're abstaining from any animal product, you must be crazy and aggressive by nature.
It's comparable to how hardcore PC guys would always bemoan "the cult of Mac," even though I'd easily see more PC fanaticism than Mac fanaticism online.
It's comparable to how hardcore PC guys would always bemoan "the cult of Mac," even though I'd easily see more PC fanaticism than Mac fanaticism online.
astroturfing
Member
i eat meat probably more than anyone i know, but even i can admit there's obviously a lot wrong about it.. firstly we eat WAY too much of it (in the west at least), it has become unhealthy. and the amount of farming we have to do just to feed all the cows and pigs is ridiculous (seriously look into it), way too much fertile land gets used up.
a uni class i took in basic ecology really drilled it into me, there's absolutely no doubt that meat eating causes harm. and the professor was far from a vegan or treehugging hippie.. he lamented the fact that we couldnt do invasive tests on live cats anymore lol, dude was a hardcore emotionless scientist, yet even HE knew we need to curb eating meat.
Slightly Live
Dirty tag dodger
Genuinely looking forward to lab grown meat. Should be able to significantly change the environmental impact of animal farming, and keep the flow of meat going as populations continue to expand.
And pretty sure some aggressive vegan will protest the lab meat too.
And pretty sure some aggressive vegan will protest the lab meat too.
HiredN00bs
Member
Every animal eats plants, one way or another.
This is really falling into a balance fallacy. The reason someone advocating for ethical veganism feels a moral obligation to not just "leave meat eaters alone" is because there are literally millions of sentient animals being slaughtered every day, and not because those perpetuating the slaughter depend on it for survival, nor because they don't have the cognitive capacity to understand that other species are conscious, have intelligence, experience emotion and suffering, but because because of a culturally engrained way of life.
The only reason there aren't more "militant" vegans is because most recognize that it would be counterproductive.
Probably. But at the same time, I am quite sure that aggressive meat eaters will complain about lab meat *not* being meat. I mean, I cannot have my rice milk without being told that it is not milk. And I can not have my nuggets, because they are not real nuggets. I can see that happening in this case as well.
Slightly Live
Dirty tag dodger
I can see real meat becoming a high value luxury commodity in future.
I'm a bit fussy when it comes to food but the wife swapped some chicken nuggets for a quick meal with impostor vegetable fungus nuggets and I didn't notice the difference. Delicious fake nuggets were delicious.
I love my fake products very much, but it raises the question for many people why I would do that if I ccould have the real thing instead. Well, I have my reasons and I still want my veggie fast food sometimes. And the alternatives are getting better and better recipe-wise. So I'm happy with that trend.
And yes, real meat will (must!) become a luxury commidity in order to sustain the planet. The moment we started mass-"producing" meat, the environment and everything went downhill. And I cannot blame other cultures and rising nations for wanting the nice things we all enjoyed in the same way.
However, if everyone on this planet started eating meat in the same amount, say, US citizens do, we would run out of farming land pretty quickly. Or we would have to feed every plant to animals and not us anymore. I don't want to think about what would happen if India would completely become a meat-consuming society, for example.
So it's better to adjust now and to make the change. Because that change is inevitable in some form or way.
Because of lab meat? Who knows, currently meat is actually getting cheaper thanks to higher efficiency. And in the not so distant future, we'll get even more efficient thanks to gene editing.
Edit:
We can actually use the livestock to green the desert, it's just a matter of doing it right.Nerazar said:
Sparkedglory
Member
I'm not disagreeing with that. I'm just saying that on a basic level there's nothing wrong with it.
Dating Rihanna is a noble goal, something worth fighting for, so our task is to find a way to win the powerball. The transition to veganism and a more healthy culture in general begins with people changing their thoughts and behaviours as individuals. In short, we have to be the change we wish to see. People who realise that veganism is more sustainable need to adopt veganism or else embrace conscious hypocrisy, assuming that they are interested in sustainability and congruency between beliefs and behaviours
Sure, let's find scapegoats and try to escape any sense of responsibility everyone has themselves. It's not that most meat eaters are pathetic, lazy, ignorant pieces of shit who can't even aim to lessen meat eating, it's TEH EVIL VEGANS who are all to blame.
We already have meat replacements not made in labs that are barely distinguishable from meat. If you're not eating those, I doubt you or the general public will take to lab grown meat.
I mean nobody likes being told what to do so i would not be surprised if that study is indeed accurate. To be fair though i have not met a single obnoxious vegan in person so personally i have no issue with them. Of the few i met do not even bring up the fact that they are vegan and mostly just mind their own business.
assholes trying to tell me I'm a piece of shit for eating a burger is one thing, but the price is another.
I'd love to go vegan, but I sincerely love the taste of meat too much. Once veg burgers that taste like a real burger are affordable (read: on par in price to their real beef counterparts), I'll try to make the swtich.
I'd love to go vegan, but I sincerely love the taste of meat too much. Once veg burgers that taste like a real burger are affordable (read: on par in price to their real beef counterparts), I'll try to make the swtich.
Alrighty then.
lmao you're literally being an example of a militant vegan right now. Congrats.
Slightly Live
Dirty tag dodger
Somebody throw some mince at this guy.
yongeandcollege
Member
Meat eaters are snowflakes confirmed. Please. Eat whatever you want but don't complain about other's attitudes towards your choices. Are you that thin skinned?
Well to be fair, what makes a burger tastes great depends 99% on the sauces and toppings used. Not what you actually use as a patty, even though there are tons of meat replacements possible, so you'll no doubt like one more than the other. Texture plays a very big part in that.
That counts for a lot of things actually.
For instance, I had vegan pittas for supper tonight. pitta pocket bread, lettuce, tomatoes, pitta (garlic) sauce and grilled Seitan strips instead of lamb or chicken meat.
Absolutely delicious and I even like these better than the meat filled ones I used to eat.
Texture is a huge part for me. When I chew the patty I want the consistency to be the same.
I guess I'm gonna try a few options and see how it is nowadays
Hashmal_Bringer_of_Order
Member
I don't mind vegans in general but i hate when they intrude onto nutrition. Just admit you do for moral reasons or whatever and move on. Don't lie to me about it being better.
Rushersauce
Banned
Living up to the study, aren't you?
Chaos2Frozen
Member
What's so hardworking and enlightening about eating vegetables?
jufonuk
not tag worthy
https://youtu.be/z0O_VYcsIk8
But can't plants feel pain?
So its meat eaters kill the food or have food prekilled eat it and don't act smug. Just eat enjoy don't smugly inflict your views on people. Unless the steak was great you need to tell people it was the shit.. mmm steak
Vegans take still living food , eat that only and eat it raw killing it freshly each bit the plant is screaming in pain "why god why?!! Aaaaarghh" of course plants have no mouths so maybe it's at a pitch we can't hear. That's why some animals hate vegetables?
Cows don't they feast on the screams of grass it makes the meat tender and oh so juicy they sit on the grass to slowly kill it making the grass docile. Cows are merciful.
Any way back to vegans they lump plants with other plants the mounds of dead fallen plants on the plates. Plants just waiting to be consumed , confused and scared and then they have the smugness to lecture people about it ?? Monsters ..they also drink fishes houses.
Get on your fixie bikes vegans and go eat lentils else where .. take your free range farts and piss off.
But that steak was really lovely.
I like salad too .. wait so I am a monster?
Damn you vegans !!!! Why did you bring me to your level of evil. ?!?
But can't plants feel pain?
So its meat eaters kill the food or have food prekilled eat it and don't act smug. Just eat enjoy don't smugly inflict your views on people. Unless the steak was great you need to tell people it was the shit.. mmm steak
Vegans take still living food , eat that only and eat it raw killing it freshly each bit the plant is screaming in pain "why god why?!! Aaaaarghh" of course plants have no mouths so maybe it's at a pitch we can't hear. That's why some animals hate vegetables?
Cows don't they feast on the screams of grass it makes the meat tender and oh so juicy they sit on the grass to slowly kill it making the grass docile. Cows are merciful.
Any way back to vegans they lump plants with other plants the mounds of dead fallen plants on the plates. Plants just waiting to be consumed , confused and scared and then they have the smugness to lecture people about it ?? Monsters ..they also drink fishes houses.
Get on your fixie bikes vegans and go eat lentils else where .. take your free range farts and piss off.
But that steak was really lovely.
I like salad too .. wait so I am a monster?
Damn you vegans !!!! Why did you bring me to your level of evil. ?!?
old manatee
Banned
When meateaters complain about judge-y vegans they sound like conservatives complaining that the Dunkin Donuts cups don't say Merry Christmas anymore.
Rushersauce
Banned
yeah I guess fat shaming is never ok, no reason to police cheeseburgers even if it's going to kill someone
SMOK3Y
Generous Member
Are you American.. just wondering?
Professor Beef
Banned
vegans don't prevent me from changing my eating habits, the vegan diet itself does that plenty
she's doing y'all a favor tbh
she's doing y'all a favor tbh
autumnleaf
Member
I'm a vegetarian and have never questioned what another person eats nor tried to convince anyone to change their eating habits. I've also never encountered a vegan who tried to change my eating habits.
The aggressive vegan is like the gym douche who mocks the fat guy on the treadmill. A lot of people speak about them but rarely actually seen.
The aggressive vegan is like the gym douche who mocks the fat guy on the treadmill. A lot of people speak about them but rarely actually seen.
jufonuk
not tag worthy
I intentionally made a dumb post .
I really don't care if you are vegan or carnivore or what ever.
Eat what you want to. Unless it is poison or thumbtacks or something ridiculous I am not going to care or judge or stop you if it looks delicious I myself will find somewhere (restaurant shop) and somehow (make it myself or a bad approximation) to try that dish in particular.
I have met some holier than thou vegan/vegetarians and some dumb as shit meat eaters as well as people who are vegan and never talked about it (it does happen) until I asked them do they want to try some of my pizza then they told me. I also know some of the smartest liberal meat eaters ever.
So in conclusion Don't force your beliefs on me especially not when I am eating. I would never do the same. (Talking healthy eating advice etc is different especially when it's a two way convo) me eating It's either me spending time with the family at a restaurant or else where or eating at work on a break and enjoying some peace and quiet.
I really don't care if you are vegan or carnivore or what ever.
Eat what you want to. Unless it is poison or thumbtacks or something ridiculous I am not going to care or judge or stop you if it looks delicious I myself will find somewhere (restaurant shop) and somehow (make it myself or a bad approximation) to try that dish in particular.
I have met some holier than thou vegan/vegetarians and some dumb as shit meat eaters as well as people who are vegan and never talked about it (it does happen) until I asked them do they want to try some of my pizza then they told me. I also know some of the smartest liberal meat eaters ever.
So in conclusion Don't force your beliefs on me especially not when I am eating. I would never do the same. (Talking healthy eating advice etc is different especially when it's a two way convo) me eating It's either me spending time with the family at a restaurant or else where or eating at work on a break and enjoying some peace and quiet.
kg of co2 per 1000 calories:
https://earthscience.stackexchange.com/questions/10160/co2-emissions-per-calorie-food said:
Going vegan doesn't necessarily help. What helps is cutting out lamb and beef. Leave pork, chicken, and most fish alone.
Lamb and beef are absolutely a pretty huge issue, though.
Let me understand:
You want people to accept your highstanding about their eating habits while shutting up, and they are the snowflakes?
If you make a judgement about somebody else, be prepared for receiving one too.
Yeah, yeah, you intentionally made a dumb post - NOT. Basically, learn how animals are fed. Learn and realize that "THE PLANTS FEEL TOO" is not a good defense considering that in order for your meat to go to the table, that animal that the meat belonged to ALSO has eaten a LOT of vegetables. So you still inflict that comedic pain to all chains below yourself.
Its very basic stuff. "Plants feel pain too" is day0 defense in every new vegetarians/vegan's friend/family circle. It is the lv1 goblin enemy of your jrpg.
Are you seeing that chart you posted? Vegans already know that vegetarianism is just barely sustainable than chicken and the difference can be chalked up to commitment/etical/availability/health reasons. But that chart you just posted ravages the "more steak for me" line of arguments. And also, I do not know anyone who eats broccoli for its calories. 1000 calorie's amount of broccoli would litearlly not fit into my stomach.
Doesn't necessarily help? Apart from broccoli (which is far from an essential component of a vegan diet) all the top spots are taken by meat and dairy. You've got to have some weird vegan diet to produce more co2 than an omnivore. The least environmentally friendly plant food after broccoli has a 33% lower footprint than the most environmentally friendly animal product, and it just gets better from there...
AppleSeason
Member
I've seen it far too many times. Many vegans take it beyond the diet / lifestyle to something comparable to far right and far left.
I was invited to a few Vegan FB groups. The amount of hate and insults for meat eaters was so pathetic that it was like being in a KKK meeting.
And this is why veganism can't be taken seriously. Vegan radicals ruining it for the rest of normal people who just try to not use or consume animal products and get better rights for them.
Most non- agressive vegans I have talked to agree that this picture sums up everything. Personally, I stopped trying to educate people on vegetarianism and veganism a long time ago. I just tell them that if they are going to eat meat, to do it responsibly and with moderation. Don't do a fucking bacon pirate ship.
PS: I like meat. Why I don't eat it is more of a moral issue.
I was invited to a few Vegan FB groups. The amount of hate and insults for meat eaters was so pathetic that it was like being in a KKK meeting.
And this is why veganism can't be taken seriously. Vegan radicals ruining it for the rest of normal people who just try to not use or consume animal products and get better rights for them.
Most non- agressive vegans I have talked to agree that this picture sums up everything. Personally, I stopped trying to educate people on vegetarianism and veganism a long time ago. I just tell them that if they are going to eat meat, to do it responsibly and with moderation. Don't do a fucking bacon pirate ship.
PS: I like meat. Why I don't eat it is more of a moral issue.
This survey says people say that is why they haven't changed their diet. It's not an actual analysis on whether or not "aggressive vegans" do actually have a negative impact.
However, as someone who really admires vegans, and is in the process of eliminating milk products out of my diet, I take a pragmatic view towards these things. Sure, it is silly that something so simple could put someone off making a positive change in their diet, when it really shouldn't. However, if that is a factor, then it must be addressed, because regardless of the reasons, "whether they really care" or not, if someone changes their lifestyle successfully, it's a win. I don't care about purity points, I care about minimising suffering in world and reducing the global carbon footprint.
However, as someone who really admires vegans, and is in the process of eliminating milk products out of my diet, I take a pragmatic view towards these things. Sure, it is silly that something so simple could put someone off making a positive change in their diet, when it really shouldn't. However, if that is a factor, then it must be addressed, because regardless of the reasons, "whether they really care" or not, if someone changes their lifestyle successfully, it's a win. I don't care about purity points, I care about minimising suffering in world and reducing the global carbon footprint.
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