Yappadappadu
Member
You sure you're not confusing it with the LG player? I don't remember any Sony announcement. Source please.
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Television Displays and Technology Thread: This is a fantasy based on OLED
- Thread starter BumRush
- Start date
Theonik
Member
That's just iirc. I don't remember what my source was. Sony's player is much better than the LG anyway both in video and build quality. I'd still recommend those three players, though I'd also say look at the lower players in Panasonic's range, largely the same as the higher end model except for build and cosmetics.
Just bought myself an LG C7 to arrive Saturday.
Local gaffer bought my KS8000, so he gets to have fun tinkering with that hehe.
Are there any good threads or posts for the preferred settings on the C7? I would possibly assume since the panel itself isn't too different from last years model that those settings might even be relevant.
Local gaffer bought my KS8000, so he gets to have fun tinkering with that hehe.
Are there any good threads or posts for the preferred settings on the C7? I would possibly assume since the panel itself isn't too different from last years model that those settings might even be relevant.
Yappadappadu
Member
No DV no buy. Otherwise the Sony player would be my first choice.
They indeed are. I have a 2014 one and the general guidelines are the same As a rule of thumb turn of all the post- processing effects, like super-resolution, dynamic contrast, true motion etc. Oled light is user preference. Some like it low, around 40-50 but I prefere it high, 90 or so. Contrast around 80-90. Color whatever feels more natural, so 50-60, playing also with the color extension field. It varies with fhe source too, as I tend to prefer it a bit higher depending on the game.
And finally the key to the panel, which is brightness and gamma. On my OLED I use Black level low/brightness 54/gamma medium for most content, but I hear on the newer models it's closer to 50. Black level has to match the rgb mode of your device/source. On the PS4 I think is RGB limited=black level low, RGB full= black level high. In turn, if you chose that option (black level high) you'll have to lower the brightness (to 44 in my case). You'll have to do some research on those. Also, I can't help you with the HDR settings.
Anyway I'm sure you can find better info out there, but hope that can help you get started.
MosquitoSmasher
Member
I love my 65B6 OLED......
But jesus, it's rather insane how fast retention appears when a very bright picture of something is displayed. For example last weekend with Fortnite. You see a bright yellow box to the right of the screen in loading screens and it's being displayed for barely a minute but i already see the retention of it.
However, no HUD elements like minimap, ammo counter etc....so that's good. Long as it stays that way i'm ok.
But jesus, it's rather insane how fast retention appears when a very bright picture of something is displayed. For example last weekend with Fortnite. You see a bright yellow box to the right of the screen in loading screens and it's being displayed for barely a minute but i already see the retention of it.
However, no HUD elements like minimap, ammo counter etc....so that's good. Long as it stays that way i'm ok.
I find that so weird. On my E6, it'd have to be hours for retention to be noticeable on a loading screen and even then it's so faint.
Kudo
Member
there is a pixel calibration option that you can constantly use if im aware if any retention becomes annoying
family_guy
Member
Yeah. I'm kind of concerned what HDR will do to OLEDs over time especially since it's becoming more common.
MosquitoSmasher
Member
Yeah i wish it was the same here. But i do believe some reviews had this in their cons for the B6, that retention appears too fast. It's a big bummer after having owned the EC9300 and never having any retention. It's like i'm fucking returning to plasma or something. I'll definitely pay careful attention to it and if it gets too bad i'll call the store.
Maybe some 65B6 owners can chime in here and tell me if they have this as well. It's only with very bright things. So say you are using Youtube and you see those bright colour boxes or in any game a bright red/yellow/white colored box....that's when it definitely happens.
37 days ago i bought the brand new B6.
This for Example
https://imgur.com/gallery/5kRVq
I displayed it for a minute, plenty of retention after that. It was gone in 40 seconds.
BradleyLove
Member
65" Sony A1 OLED now ordered to replace my Panasonic VT50 plasma.
Sure, there's some areas in which the plasma is better than the OLED, but the plasma ain't 4K, doesn't have HDR and isn't 65". Plus I'm only paying £2,900 for it thanks to my buddy at Sony Liverpool. 👍🏻
Sure, there's some areas in which the plasma is better than the OLED, but the plasma ain't 4K, doesn't have HDR and isn't 65". Plus I'm only paying £2,900 for it thanks to my buddy at Sony Liverpool. 👍🏻
Yellow seems to be the worst colour in terms of retention. I always notice it in the Amazon Video App on the lower right.
MosquitoSmasher
Member
Definitely. That's why I'm not yet calling the shop and/or LG. It's nothing like the plasma televisions I've owned where I always had to be careful with static HUDS like games as GTA V and such. I remember on older plasma televisions seeing the minimap retention for quite a while and it's not like that now. I still don't like it though.
RoadHazard
Gold Member
I wish I could just blow that kind of money on a TV. Now, you did get an amazing deal on it. The 65A1 is 60K SEK (£5,600) here in Sweden, lol.
The weird thing is, it's so inconsistend. In the Amazon Video app it happens after like 1 or 2 minutes.
Then again I can have Diablo 3 or Bloodborne running for hours and not see any retention of HUD elements.
Anyway, it's not there for long anyway
Hopefully it's just like plasma in that it gets better over time. My plasma was a retention machine for the first year...now I can leave something on the screen for hours and somehow escape with mild retention at worst.
MosquitoSmasher
Member
Yep same here man. Been playing Dark Souls 3 last weekend and Fortnite and some GTA V and i never noticed any retention of the minimap or anything like that. However in DS3 i have the option enabled for the HUD disappearing but not for Fortnite and GTA V.
But as soon as something is very bright, Xbox dashboard, Youtube, Crunchyroll, or something in a load screen in a game i will see it.
With a bit of luck this will even improve.
Yeah that would be great.
Oh by the way, apparently LG IS working on fixing the HDR game mode:
http://www.avsforum.com/forum/40-ol...-lg-c6-b6-owners-thread-681.html#post54489233
http://www.avsforum.com/forum/40-ol...-lg-c6-b6-owners-thread-681.html#post54489345
MosquitoSmasher
Member
I wish I could help out man but my friend with his Pro and One S is back home again. Next time I'll have a HDR system here is when the X comes out.
My LG UP970 has been great so far. Need to test more UHDs but John Wick chapter 2 looks awesome. It's also rumored to get DV next month
Yappadappadu
Member
I think that's referring to the latest screwed up FW for the C6, E6 and G6 that enabled HLG support? So no guarantee that anything will change for the B6.
Sony hasn't announced DV support for their 4k Blu Ray player yet. Oppo has updated to DV already and LG will soon.
It's interesting the difference in support between disc and streamed. Dolby Vision might be slow on the uptake in discs but has plenty of support on streaming sites. I finally have a use for these digital copies on Vudu because many of their uhd streams support dolby vision. The irony about buying these 4k movie discs which have only hdr10 on them... The digital copy unlocks on Vudu and Vudu only supports dv right now. But it's nice to have both versions to compare.
Those worrying about hdr10 vs Dolby Vision with sets that dont have DV, I wouldn't worry too much about hdr10 going away. Games on Xbox and PS4 support hdr10, most hdr shows on Netflix and Amazon are hdr10 too. Also Vudu is adding HDR10 support later this year to all their uhd dv streams. Plus 4k movie disc is required to have hdr 10. Dolby Vision is going to get more prolific, but hdr10 isn't going away.
It's interesting the difference in support between disc and streamed. Dolby Vision might be slow on the uptake in discs but has plenty of support on streaming sites. I finally have a use for these digital copies on Vudu because many of their uhd streams support dolby vision. The irony about buying these 4k movie discs which have only hdr10 on them... The digital copy unlocks on Vudu and Vudu only supports dv right now. But it's nice to have both versions to compare.
Those worrying about hdr10 vs Dolby Vision with sets that dont have DV, I wouldn't worry too much about hdr10 going away. Games on Xbox and PS4 support hdr10, most hdr shows on Netflix and Amazon are hdr10 too. Also Vudu is adding HDR10 support later this year to all their uhd dv streams. Plus 4k movie disc is required to have hdr 10. Dolby Vision is going to get more prolific, but hdr10 isn't going away.
Have you considered TCL P607? Is it an option? Dolby Vision support/HDR 10, DD+ over ARC, geat input lag at 15ms, FALD, built in Roku 4k interface (which is Great) , Live Ota pause and rewind. Remote headphone aux. All this for $650 is great value imo. I bought it and love it so far. Plus it's cheap enough that it will hold me over until better OLED with HDMI 2.1 and more 4k content comes out. Won't feel too bad upgrading this TV as well
I went from a Pioneer 500M to two different LCDs, and then to OLED two years later. OLED is the only thing that feels like a "full" upgrade and you still lose out with regards to motion and uniformity. You gotta remember that the contrast ratio and/or black level of the Kuros and the later Panasonic plasmas is better than any LCD made to this day despite their age, including the Sony Z9D, Vizio 2016/2017 P-series, Samsung KS9800, etc. HDR is nice on the brighter 4K LCDs but you do get washed out blacks in scenes with bright highlights next to dark areas. Best thing for me about having an LCD was no burn-in.
All of these posts make me more and more confident about not leaving the tech yet. I hope OLED makers improve motion handling in the next couple of years.
Dr.Horrible
Member
Two questions:
1. Is this a decent set for the price or would I be better of spending $50 more for the TCL S405?
http://www.bestbuy.com/site/hisense...-4k-ultra-hd-tv-black/5897427.p?skuId=5897427
The TV would go in our upstairs living room and we don't do much but watch tv on it and occasional plex usage. I'd be replacing an old 42" 720p set.
2. For my main viewing area I've been eyeing the Vizio 70" M series. I sit about 10 feet from my current 65" and know I need a size increase to get all the benefits. My other option is to stay at 65" with the Sony x900 (the 75" version @ $3,500 is a bit of a stretch at the moment).
1. Is this a decent set for the price or would I be better of spending $50 more for the TCL S405?
http://www.bestbuy.com/site/hisense...-4k-ultra-hd-tv-black/5897427.p?skuId=5897427
The TV would go in our upstairs living room and we don't do much but watch tv on it and occasional plex usage. I'd be replacing an old 42" 720p set.
2. For my main viewing area I've been eyeing the Vizio 70" M series. I sit about 10 feet from my current 65" and know I need a size increase to get all the benefits. My other option is to stay at 65" with the Sony x900 (the 75" version @ $3,500 is a bit of a stretch at the moment).
If you mean stretch as in "financial stretch" I'd wait and grab the 75" you want. Not sure if the 5" difference will be a game changer, but 10" diagonal most certainly will be.
TheBoss1
Member
You can't use local dimming in game mode though. You can use it outside game mode but there are conflicting reports about how much higher the input lag is.
Dr.Horrible
Member
Considering the Vizio is at $1,700 today, is the extra 5" and other benefits of the Sony really worth literally twice the price?
Well this weekend I tried my first 4K HDR disc on my new OLED (Trainspotting 2)
Holy hell, what a difference. It simply blows my old 4K TV out of the water; HDR makes the picture so damn bright and vibrant, wow. I have never been that impressed with HDR PS4 games, but films are incredible.
I loved it so much, I've gone out and blown £40 on two more 4K discs today (Logan and La La Land, neither of which I have seen). This 4K game is expensive.
HMV had most discs at £25, and I can't justify spending that amount on one single film. £20 is my biting point for these discs.
Holy hell, what a difference. It simply blows my old 4K TV out of the water; HDR makes the picture so damn bright and vibrant, wow. I have never been that impressed with HDR PS4 games, but films are incredible.
I loved it so much, I've gone out and blown £40 on two more 4K discs today (Logan and La La Land, neither of which I have seen). This 4K game is expensive.
HMV had most discs at £25, and I can't justify spending that amount on one single film. £20 is my biting point for these discs.
RedlineRonin
Member
Very specific question for someone who is:
- Running their 4K set with a PC
- Using a surround sound receiver or pre/pro with HDMI
- Using custom resolutions below 4K but above 1440p with CRU
Are you getting 5.1 audio through HDMI?
Now that i've got a new preamp hooked up, when I restart the graphics driver after inserting the custom resolutions with CRU, it creates an issue where windows can no longer use EDID to identify the preamp and so defaults to 2.0 PCM instead of 5.1.
I ordered a DP to HDMI adapter to just go out to the preamp and run the primary HDMI to the display, so this is sort of a bandaid, but I'd love to just do the single HDMI cable.
I believe it has to do with the driver being "unsigned" once you use CRU to hack in resolutions, but that was based on some cursory research....
- Running their 4K set with a PC
- Using a surround sound receiver or pre/pro with HDMI
- Using custom resolutions below 4K but above 1440p with CRU
Are you getting 5.1 audio through HDMI?
Now that i've got a new preamp hooked up, when I restart the graphics driver after inserting the custom resolutions with CRU, it creates an issue where windows can no longer use EDID to identify the preamp and so defaults to 2.0 PCM instead of 5.1.
I ordered a DP to HDMI adapter to just go out to the preamp and run the primary HDMI to the display, so this is sort of a bandaid, but I'd love to just do the single HDMI cable.
I believe it has to do with the driver being "unsigned" once you use CRU to hack in resolutions, but that was based on some cursory research....
Yea same here. I doubt the Sony player is that much better in PQ to miss out on DV entirely
The X1 Extreme processor sets have dedicated hardware for DV.
Theonik
Member
I asked you in a previous page but can you cite that claim?
Why would Sony include DV hardware on the Z9D more half a year before they announced any intention to release DV capable sets and more than a year before they actually did?
True. Some reports say the lag input isn't that much higher than the Sony TV with local dimming. From what I can tell input lag isn't bad with local dimming on. Also hoping they could push an update to allow local dimming in game mode as well
Interesting. I noticed in sound in windows I could only select stereo and not 5.1, so this might be why. I think it might be an edid reading error as you said. When I look at sound properties Dolby digital and DTS still show up. When I play Bayonetta and Witcher 3 i get 5.1. if CRU is an issue though I might remove it.
RoadHazard
Gold Member
Not available in Sweden (Europe?), unfortunately. There are no good cheap 4K TVs here, AFAIK. And of the more premium brands, Sony gives me the best vibes. Plus, I'd much rather have Android TV than the stuff Samsung et al use.
Obviously, there are factors which only you can answer, but some things to consider:
- when will you buy "the next" TV after this one? If you're a 2-3 year TV owner, go for the Vizio now and start saving for 75" plus later on. If you plan to have it for 5+ years, maybe hold out for the 75" so that you're not constantly thinking you should have gone bigger.
- besides the size, what do the reviews say about the Vizio vs. the Sony. I have zero personal experience with Vizio TVs, so this would be where I would start
- use a price tracker like https://camelcamelcamel.com/Sony-XBR75X850D-Ultra-Smart-75-Inch/product/B01A5LU6R0?context=search to see how similar brand / size TVs perform over time (price-wise). While not a perfect 1:1 correlation, you might be surprised at how quickly that $3,500 becomes $2,400 or less.
RoadHazard
Gold Member
How would you judge the difference? Is it significant enough to warrant buying a Sony X930E (which will get DV support) over the X900E?
Hmm, sure? I thought that chip was simply powerful enough to do it through software (Dolby has created such a solution for devices without the dedicated DV hardware). If true, why won't it be enabled until an update in the fall? And why wouldn't Sony include it as a bullet point for those sets?
One of the reasons I bought my TV (C7) is because it supported all the different HDR formats, so I specifically wanted Dolby Vision support. I'll try to answer the question the best I can in a non scientific eye, but yes Dolby Vision looks better. It handles differences in contrast better. Beyond this, it also handles colors better too. For example, if there is a neon sign you can see the neon light shining off an object better. Now are the differences enough to upgrade to the 930e? That's tough for me to answer for you. There would be some bias in my answer because I bought my TV for DV support.
Maybe I can put it in gaming terms. HDR10 seems like the Xbox One of HDR while Dolby Vision is the PS4 of HDR. There is a difference but you still have access to similar content no matter which format you use. If DV is available I'll be watching a show/movie in that over HDR10. But it doesn't make HDR10 useless. HDR10 still looks good.
RedlineRonin
Member
Could you unpack this a bit?
Do you have the same issue? But is it only sometimes? Some of your games (Bayo, W3) seem to work fine?
It seems to me that there is a way to also address this audio issue with CRU, I just don't have enough technical background on how drivers work etc.
The same way you can configure CRU to hack in resolutions, it appears you can hack in audio formats that the receiving device should see as supported. I just can't seem to penetrate a lot of what I'm reading about how to do it.
The display port adapter for audio just seemed like an easier solve.
cpp_is_king
Member
This is more of a hypothetical, but how high can resolutions go before the human eye can't distinguish the difference? Would anybody notice 4320p as being better than 2160p? What about 8640p? 17280p? Has any research ever been done here?
RedlineRonin
Member
That's a question that needs to factor in size of screen and viewing distance
Theonik
Member
I mean. No shit. They chose to put the cheaper processor on the low-mid sets from the 90E down to save money but also to give a USP for the higher end sets.
More accurately it should factor the visual acuity of the viewer and the field of view.
In the general case with 20/20 vision in a display that fills your FOV you need 16k per eye. (that's the end game for VR)
This was my biggest concern. It's like...I don't mind not having it. I just don't want what I have to be rendered useless.
As Redline said, it definitely depends on where you sit and the size of the screen. I'm sure if you're 4-5' from an 80" 4K or 4-5' from an 80" 8K, some folks could discern a difference.