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The Flash S3 |OT| It was me, Barry.

J

Joni

Member
LotusHD said:
I wonder how many people naively thought Flashpoint would actually change big stuff from the other shows. Like outside of Diggle's daughter, I don't think anything else happened.
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That were funny times when people thought it would completely undo the previous Arrow seasons.

morningbus said:
That's actually a symptom of the continuity, though. They can't change anything big for fear of messing up the other shows. I guarantee you by the end of Legend's season (or, more realistically, the beginning of the crossover) everything will be set back to the status quo.

I'm not fully against continuity here and there are good stories that can come out of it but not everything needs to be connected, either.
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They changed a lot of big stuff without caring about each other. That is how flash can create a different timeline and basically being a short extra on Arrow. If they were more limited, Arrow would need to make bigger changes to accommodate the Flashpoint.
 
M

morningbus

Serious Sam is a wicked gahbidge series for chowdaheads.
Joni said:
They changed a lot of big stuff without caring about each other. That is how flash can create a different timeline and basically being a short extra on Arrow. If they were more limited, Arrow would need to make bigger changes to accommodate the Flashpoint.
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What big changes have they made without caring about each other?
 
J

Joni

Member
morningbus said:
What big changes have they made without caring about each other?
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The finale on Legends basically changed current earth completely but it didn't change anything for the other two. What you might think is a limit of the shared continuity is a lack of willingness to change on their end.

This isn't some shield case where they just have to listen either. These shows set their plots in the same month, in the same building. If Legends wants to kill an important flash villain, it can
 
D

DeathyBoy

Banned
Joni said:
The finale on Legends basically changed current earth completely but it didn't change anything for the other two. What you might think is a limit of the shared continuity is a lack of willingness to change on their end.

This isn't some shield case where they just have to listen either. These shows set their plots in the same month, in the same building. If Legends wants to kill an important flash villain, it can
Click to expand...

I mean on the one hand it's a shame we didn't get Flashpoint having shit like Robert Queen as Arrow in the first ep of S5 and Barry giving Oliver a letter from his Dad - but the core audience would absolutely be confused by what the fuck was going on.

And the Gaf Arrow thread would've been as awful as the S3 one was.
 
M

morningbus

Serious Sam is a wicked gahbidge series for chowdaheads.
Joni said:
The finale on Legends basically changed current earth completely but it didn't change anything for the other two. What you might think is a limit of the shared continuity is a lack of willingness to change on their end.

This isn't some shield case where they just have to listen either. These shows set their plots in the same month, in the same building. If Legends wants to kill an important flash villain, it can
Click to expand...

I sort of feel like we're almost arguing two different things that have some overlap.

Doomworld was only for that episode of Legends and was promptly reset at the end to the current continuity. We don't know when that episode took place, so it could have happened at any point off-screen for Flash and Arrow.

The fact that we didn't get a whole season or a half a season of Doomworld is because of the continuity trap. There are ways around it, sure, but it is a hindrance to the stories they might want to tell. Legends can't have the Earth explode without it getting reset at some point.

The point is, they aren't going to do anything massive with the continuity because they can't expect everyone to watch everything, especially as they use these shows to target different kinds of viewers outside of "comic nerd who will watch everything anyway." Black Lightning not being in Arrowverse continuity may shut some small doors for stories, but it opens up so many more if they don't have to worry about it.

Having said that, I'll probably still be asking for a Crisis on Infinite, Beauitful Earths by Black Lightning S2.
 
C

caliph95

Member
DeathyBoy said:
I mean on the one hand it's a shame we didn't get Flashpoint having shit like Robert Queen as Arrow in the first ep of S5 and Barry giving Oliver a letter from his Dad - but the core audience would absolutely be confused by what the fuck was going on.

And the Gaf Arrow thread would've been as awful as the S3 one was.
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I was seeing some dumb ideas like using it to reboot and retcon shit even though it would never happen because not everybody watch this show and will just confuse people
 
J

Joni

Member
morningbus said:
Doomworld was only for that episode of Legends and was promptly reset at the end to the current continuity. We don't know when that episode took place, so it could have happened at any point off-screen for Flash and Arrow.
Click to expand...

But Legends turning Earth-1 2017 into dinosaur country is noticeable. They are both signs that these shows can easily mess around with how Earth looks like. They just have to have a way to be back for crossovers, which can be done easily as seen with the Legends interrupting their time travel.

morningbus said:
The fact that we didn't get a whole season or a half a season of Doomworld is because of the continuity trap. There are ways around it, sure, but it is a hindrance to the stories they might want to tell. Legends can't have the Earth explode without it getting reset at some point.
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They also couldn't do that while being a single show as it limits their own potential. Barry also can't let Central be destroyed.

morningbus said:
The point is, they aren't going to do anything massive with the continuity because they can't expect everyone to watch everything, especially as they use these shows to target different kinds of viewers outside of "comic nerd who will watch everything anyway." Black Lightning not being in Arrowverse continuity may shut some small doors for stories, but it opens up so many more if they don't have to worry about it.
Click to expand...

You only need to watch everything if they really put a lot of stress on the continuity. They don't really. You could easily watch these shows without watching any other. You can watch Arrow without needing to know anything about Flashpoint, that would have been the same no matter how much Barry had changed. People seem to do that with The Flash.
 
M

morningbus

Serious Sam is a wicked gahbidge series for chowdaheads.
Did they even lampshade that when the team had the stone for a while? Like, Cisco running a test and going "Oh, shit Barry, this stuff smells like you" or anything?
 
M

morningbus

Serious Sam is a wicked gahbidge series for chowdaheads.
Also, to help ya'll out:

E4IzPmB.png
 
S

Skii

Member
LotusHD said:
Well that's what it all comes down to for why this season was disappointing. The pacing was just bad. It's never a good thing when I realize that despite me enjoying an episode, there's only a few more left to go...

As for the crossovers, I mean you definitely have a point, but even after both were over, they still took their damn time with the Savitar reveal. At least they were entertaining...
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Yeah the reveal is just too late. This is definitely a far bigger and more pivotal reveal than Zoom and yet they've only given themselves 3 episodes to actually explore Evil Barry. It's disappointing. So much could be explained about Savitar rather than pure exposition between Barry and Savitar. I want full episodes dedicated to how Evil Barry was driven to the point of no return. That way we could actually sympathise with him.

I also feel like the lack of time spent on Savitar is meaning that any explanation of what is going on just seems nonsensical.

I really don't know how they're going to explain why Flashpoint creates Savitar, why Savitar gave Wally his powers, Whether Reverse Flash will return etc. They can't fit that all into one episode without it being rushed. I was really looking forward to Reverse Flash returning to torment them for an episode. But apparently he's the villain in another show lmao.
 
P

Platy

Member
Barry : So you are letting us go ?
Layla : Yes because or else you will fuck up the timeline AGAIN and this is the reason I didn't wanted to give you the power shit in the first place so or I let you go or Snart's misplacement in the timeline will make another flashpoint stuff. Fuck you Barry
 
M

morningbus

Serious Sam is a wicked gahbidge series for chowdaheads.
Lord Frieza said:
I thought Constantine was in the Arrowverse? Didn't he show up in Arrow?
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If you take a look at the chart I have it merging in from the side into the Arrowverse to denote its nature as a show that isn't a Berlanti show but became continuity (as far as we know).

In the next revision I'll probably put that merging action on the other side, so that a portion of the circle is outside the Berlantiverse circle.
 
J

Jorok Goldblade

Member
Okay- so here's my thought on the potential swerve:

Iris is dead. That was her. Not some body double or substitute. She's dead.

Barry can't go back in time and save her, because he's on linear time and the Speed Force hates when he changes his own timeline.

But the key to saving Iris comes from Snart's advice.

Don't defeat Savitar by playing his game. Use your goodness to win.

Savitar is on circular time. He's on a self contained loop. He doesn't have to time travel. All he has to do is stop.


Barry needs to convince Savitar to let go of his hate. That if he does, he won't be split into a Barry and an unnecessary spare. He'll get to live on as the Barry Allen who has a loving fiance and close friends across a half dozen universes.

Barry defeats Savitar and saves Iris with the power of friendship.



Skii said:
I really don't know how they're going to explain why Flashpoint creates Savitar, why Savitar gave Wally his powers, Whether Reverse Flash will return etc. They can't fit that all into one episode without it being rushed. I was really looking forward to Reverse Flash returning to torment them for an episode. But apparently he's the villain in another show lmao.
Click to expand...

Savitar gave Wally powers because he needed a speedster to help him escape the SPeed Force Trap, and he knew Wally was dumb and impulsive enough to fall for it.
 
M

morningbus

Serious Sam is a wicked gahbidge series for chowdaheads.
I thought Eddie killing himself made it clear that good intentions aren't enough to change the timeline. You have to actually enact a change, generally at that moment, to get a result.

Unless we think Eddie didn't think, "oh, maybe I won't have any kids" before killing himself.
 
F

FloatingDivider

Member
Can't take Iris's death seriously, because she'll be back. It's kind of sad this universe has had so many resurrections that you're just like: eeh, she'll be back, eventually. But besides that something about this show has been bugging me since the Savitar is RemantBarry reveal.

What killed Iris the first time which caused Barry to make the remnant that becomes Savitar? It can't be Savitar because that makes no fucking sense, it breaks causality in such a fucking ridiculous way that it's essentially unworkable as a plot. I was kind of worried this'd be the end result when they opened the timetravel can of worms a few seasons ago. Clearly they have no fucking idea what they're doing, because if they did they wouldn't write this kind of paradoxical gobbledigook. This is some chicken and egg shit is all I'm saying.
 
J

Just_one

Member
Am i the only one who thinks that Iris should remain dead?

It could be a boost for the show storytelling , if she lives there are no stakes anymore.

oh x character died....no problem we will just time travel or something and everything will be fine....
 
C

caliph95

Member
I wish we didn't do any of this since all it means is Iris is damsel again and a plot device not a character

Also because i don't buy they are killing her
 
L

LotusHD

Banned
caliph95 said:
I wish we didn't do any of this since all it means is Iris is damsel again and a plot device not a character

Also because i don't buy they are killing her
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I mean, I was sad about it, but I'd be even more sad if Iris actually did shit for the team, so the whole "plot device or character?" kind of rings hollow for me. The only time I'm genuinely excited about what Iris is doing is when it concerns her multiverse counterparts. They're so much more livelier than our Iris. Ugh, it's Laurel all over again, only with less angst.

Also damn girl, when is the last time you actually did your job lmao
 
P

PHOENIXZERO

Member
If they legit fridged Iris... Ugh, that would be a point of no return for the show IMO.


They didn't though because we already know she'll actually be alive and in season four.
 
I

iosefe

Member
Permanently A said:
Yeah really lol

the writers are actively now just using time travel when they feel like it and ignoring it when its irksome for them
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i mean, legit, Meet The Robinsons did "creating your enemy" better and used the ending I just said.
Lord Frieza said:
If I'm not mistaken, did Future Barry say he couldn't win without them?
Click to expand...

again, if he never makes he remnant, savitar can't exist. we have seen that actions of younger barry do resonate to Savitar.

so i guess the real solution would be to put Barry into a coma right before he would have fought savitar and made remnants.
 
S

Septimus Prime

Member
iosefe said:
i mean, legit, Meet The Robinsons did "creating your enemy" better and used the ending I just said.


again, if he never makes he remnant, savitar can't exist. we have seen that actions of younger barry do resonate to Savitar.

so i guess the real solution would be to put Barry into a coma right before he would have fought savitar and made remnants.
Click to expand...
Time would correct course, so that wouldn't really be tenable.

Like, look at the last episode: despite all they did to change things, in the end, the scene played out exactly the same as how it did in the flash-forward—Barry still begs Savitar not to kill Iris, and he's still too slow to do anything about it, and he even still catches Iris' body in the exact same way.

Barry will eventually use time remnants, one way or another, and one will become Savitar. The only thing that would change is maybe Savitar's date of creation.
 
V

VeeP

Member
Lord Frieza said:
If I'm not mistaken, did Future Barry say he couldn't win without them?
Click to expand...

Future Barry didn't even find out who Savitar was. He's a scrub already.

Why not get Wally, Jessie, Supergirl, one-two other speedsters instead of making a time remanant?

Oh yea. Because Speedforce. Calcified Speedforce.

iosefe said:
i mean, legit, Meet The Robinsons did "creating your enemy" better and used the ending I just said.


again, if he never makes he remnant, savitar can't exist. we have seen that actions of younger barry do resonate to Savitar.

so i guess the real solution would be to put Barry into a coma right before he would have fought savitar and made remnants.
Click to expand...

Meet the Robinsons was a great movie. Really underrated.
 
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