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Redbeard · Jul 24, 2010

MoonsaultSlayer said:
Why, because he's better looking? Why does that matter? If a movie starred Willem Dafoe, are you going to dimiss it because he's no GQ model?

I say fuck the fanboys who are resistant to accept that new Cole breaks continuity. See, I can be just as lame.

Yes, because he's better looking and more appealing in general.

No, I won't dismiss Willem Dafoe in a movie, but he's usually playing fucked up villains and not superheroes, if you catch my drift.

The old cole is just so bald and generic, it's like everything bad about character design this gen. Nathan Hale and Cole are indistinguishable. New Cole at least looks fairly unique.

BobTheFork · Jul 24, 2010

Redbeard said:
New cole is so much better than old cole

This is ridiculous, Sucker Punch make the character you want, fuck the fanboys that are resistant to any change

They did make the character they want, he was in the first infamous, but then they CHANGED it because of fanboy bitching so we can all be happy now. They are keeping it the same and not caving in, and they are using the better design.

MoonsaultSlayer · Jul 24, 2010

Yoboman said:
Ugh old Cole is so terrible

He's a character.... wtf do you want?

Did you cry because Raziel was decayed and missing a jaw?

Does it upset you that Mario is a short, fat plumber?

What about Link who wears tights...

He's an ugly-ass ordinary character who was thrown into this chaotic world. I love it and love SP's balls for making a pathetic character work. I hated the way he looked but got hooked because of the gameplay and story and now prefer it and understand it. I don't need to have good looks, tattoos, and bandages to represent a character I play as in a videogame. I liked having the ordinary doing the incredible.

fernoca · Jul 24, 2010

MoonsaultSlayer said:
"Instead, listen to the people you have polled who may not have played a videogame in their life. When the majority of people in your targeted demographic say they'd rather play as character B because he seems totally radical, go with that and assume your audience and fanbase are going to prefer this character as well.

When that backfires and you revert back to the original, you should think twice because those of us who prefered the new look are the only ones who are allowed to have an opinion as to how you should design Cole."

Though he's design 101 comment is a well know rule..maybe not an actual rule, more like a guideline...

But in your posts you go to the extremes; as if "the true fans" liked the original, hated the new one; and "people that haven't played a videogame in their life" were the ones that liked the new one..

What about those of that liked his look in the first game and liked (and in my case prefered) the redeisgn in this new one?

Or those that just didn't care, because they just wanted to play more inFamous?

But when it comes to "drastic" changes is always the same..
Look at Splinter Cell and "Hobo Sam"..then when they changed it back to his more familiar look "Were's mah Hobo Sam Ubisoft?"..or the new Max Payne (lol bald and fat WTF?)....or the classic "lol that looks liek a cartoon what the fuck Nintendo? Celda?"..

And heck, based on the crappy blurry pic that was posted (unless it was fake or old), it seems as if the "redesign after listening to fans" is the same character/clothes, but bald...but we'll have to wait for better pictures; not even artwork..since there were 2 different artworks of the previous one...with the one in the game looking more closer to the one from the Game Informer cover, than the artwork that was inside the magazine article per se..

There are always going to be lovers, haters, people that approve, people that don't. But if developers in general have shown one thing, is that they work better when they look for input, but make their own choices.

Segata Sanshiro · Jul 24, 2010

Yoboman said:
Because there is obviously a point where changing the design dramatically is detrimental, you wouldn't do it in something like MGS. Changing a character like Cole's design while they still can is not detrimental to the product when it was so bad to begin with.

It's already too late to change him. When you're dealing with something that will probably be a three game series, completely changing the entire look of the character down to the last detail after even one game is a pretty shitty idea.

AAK · Jul 24, 2010

I didn't mind the initial change, but the fact that they went back to the original design makes it look more and more like a sequel rather than a reboot which was my honest first impression (new setting, new VA, new character designs)

I just hope that we can visit empire city again later on in Infamous 2

Irish · Jul 24, 2010

I'm not even sure who New Cole is anymore. The one I call New Cole is G4.

B ______________I_______________N______________G _________________ O

Baraka in the White House · Jul 24, 2010

I could learn to live with the look of Nu Cole, but the voice of the new guy just really threw it off for me.

I'm generally in agreement with the people arguing for continuity though. I don't think anyone is saying that the original Cole was some fantastic triumph of character design, but rather that the story was told well enough that we grew to like Cole 1.0 despite his appearance and, it sounds like, some of us even warmed up to the look.

I say put a little more hair on his head and leave it at that.

corrosivefrost · Jul 24, 2010

Redbeard said:
Yes, because he's better looking and more appealing in general.

No, I won't dismiss Willem Dafoe in a movie, but he's usually playing fucked up villains and not superheroes, if you catch my drift.

The old cole is just so bald and generic, it's like everything bad about character design this gen. Nathan Hale and Cole are indistinguishable. New Cole at least looks fairly unique.

Nathan Hale or Nathan Drake.

He's still a fscking retread. Keep the one that DOESN'T break continuity.

truly101 · Jul 24, 2010

New Cole was fine, I just wish they made him Inuit.

MoonsaultSlayer · Jul 24, 2010

Yoboman said:
Bald generic character designs are far more prevalent than Nathan Drake knock-offs

I'm not sure if you understand the word generic. Cole 1 is ugly and nowhere near as cool/tough/handsome as every other game character out there that you lump him in with.

And I'd bet most of those devs who use bald characters will tell you they did it because they didn't want to deal with trying to make hair look good. The only other option, it seems, is making Nathan Drake-like hair. The hair doesn't even bother me and shouldn't even be factored into this debate at all because none of us who prefer the old Cole give 2 shits about hair. It's the facial structure and overall look and age of the character that upsets us.... not to mention personality.

cjtiger300 · Jul 24, 2010

Irish said:
I'm not even sure who New Cole is anymore. The one I call New Cole is G4.

B ______________I_______________N______________G _________________ O

Damn it Broken, everyone knows they should just make him like old Cole with ginger hair! Seriously, we gingers need a protagonist!!!!!!!!! vs's would agree!!!!!

Segata Sanshiro · Jul 24, 2010

Redbeard said:
Yes, because he's better looking and more appealing in general.

No, I won't dismiss Willem Dafoe in a movie, but he's usually playing fucked up villains and not superheroes, if you catch my drift.

The old cole is just so bald and generic, it's like everything bad about character design this gen. Nathan Hale and Cole are indistinguishable. New Cole at least looks fairly unique.

Old Cole looks like Jason Statham, if you ask me. Old Cole is neither bald (he's got a little hair) nor generic (most game characters look like a typical action hero of some sort. Cole is ugly and not particularly macho-looking). Aside from his choice of haircut, he doesn't look anything like Nathan Hale.

I don't see how someone could call Old Cole generic and New Cole unique, I really don't. I'd say New Cole is a far more generic-looking character. I could swing a cat and hit fifty New Coles in Hollywood.

cjtiger300 · Jul 24, 2010

DOO13ER said:
I could learn to live with the look of Nu Cole, but the voice of the new guy just really threw it off for me.

Watch this http://blog.us.playstation.com/2010/07/23/infamous-2-for-ps3-new-comic-con-cutscene/

Sounds pretty damn good to me!

corrosivefrost · Jul 24, 2010

fernoca said:
Though he's design 101 comment is a well know rule..maybe not an actual rule, more like a guideline...

But in your posts you go to the extremes; as if "the true fans" liked the original, hated the new one; and "people that haven't played a videogame in their life" were the ones that liked the new one..

What about those of that liked his look in the first game and liked (and in my case prefered) the redeisgn in this new one?

Or those that just didn't care, because they just wanted to play more inFamous?

But when it comes to "drastic" changes is always the same..
Look at Splinter Cell and "Hobo Sam"..then when they changed it back to his more familiar look "Were's mah Hobo Sam Ubisoft?"..or the new Max Payne (lol bald and fat WTF?)....or the classic "lol that looks liek a cartoon what the fuck Nintendo? Celda?"..

And heck, based on the crappy blurry pic that was posted (unless it was fake or old), it seems as if the "redesign after listening to fans" is the same character/clothes, but bald...but we'll have to wait for better pictures; not even artwork..since there were 2 different artworks of the previous one...with the one in the game looking more closer to the one from the Game Informer cover, than the artwork that was inside the magazine article per se..

There are always going to be lovers, haters, people that approve, people that don't. But if developers in general have shown one thing, is that they work better when they look for input, but make their own choices.

Changing Max Payne to be old/bald/overweight is something that could happen. Changing the artistic style of a game? No problem. Changing the entire character's design? Problem.

The number one example of this that comes to mind is Capcom with Ryu. But that's a bit of a different situation.

JaseC · Jul 24, 2010

Redbeard said:
http://i26.tinypic.com/35m0ffl.png

New cole is so much better than old cole

This is ridiculous, Sucker Punch make the character you want, fuck the fanboys that are resistant to any change

Many of those who decried the change in the first place are now against Sucker Punch's decision to change the design to something more resembling the original. Fucking pathetic. :lol

cjtiger300 · Jul 24, 2010

Segata Sanshiro said:
Old Cole looks like Jason Statham, if you ask me. Old Cole is neither bald (he's got a little hair) nor generic (most game characters look like a typical action hero of some sort. Cole is ugly and not particularly macho-looking). Aside from his choice of haircut, he doesn't look anything like Nathan Hale.

I don't see how someone could call Old Cole generic and New Cole unique, I really don't. I'd say New Cole is a far more generic-looking character. I could swing a cat and hit fifty New Coles in Hollywood.

:lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol

Y2Kev · Jul 24, 2010

I really like NewCole Squared's kinda protolook. Take original Cole, soften the facial features to make him look younger, smooth out his skin a little, and you're good to go. The total redesign was unfortunate--regardless of what you think of the design, it just creates continuity problems. And all those tattoos look like something out of Mirror's Edge. I don't really think it fit the universe of the game.

They could have just made it like Cole's son. Or Alternate Cole shocked into being by Kessler. No need to be so....I dunno, canonical. But if you're going to be that way, you gotta make it LOOK like the same guy.

Irish · Jul 24, 2010

MoonsaultSlayer said:
It's the facial structure and overall look and age of the character that upsets us.... not to mention personality.

Not this shit again. Personality is not based on looks. From the videos, new Cole acts exactly like old Cole.

Then again, I guess all the "true fans" forgot about Cole screaming "OH HELL YEAH!" and having genuine fun when he discovered he could grind on powerlines and whatnot.

jett · Jul 24, 2010

HooYaH said:
The Cole in the video sure looks like David Beckham.

That's not too bad, I'd like to see how he looks in-game. Seems they've gone full bald instead of a shaved head for some reason.

fernoca · Jul 24, 2010

corrosivefrost said:
Changing Max Payne to be old/bald/overweight is something that could happen. Changing the artistic style of a game? No problem. Changing the entire character's design? Problem.

The number one example of this that comes to mind is Capcom with Ryu. But that's a bit of a different situation.

But how is a problem?
According to the developers, the change in look and attitude of the character (aside "fan feedback" and the "skateboard thing") was because they wanted to show a Cole that was more ..comfortable, and happy with his powers. That accepted his powers as a gift, instead of a curse....so they decided to change many things. Granted, is not like the original Cole was that serious...but he acted more pissed off because of the events happening to him and around him.

Same with Zeke and they wanting a more friendly and ready to fight-look, granted Zeke's change wasn't as "drastic"....and people would be screaming if they made Zeke skinny-fit..but still.. :lol

NotTheGuyYouKill · Jul 24, 2010

If they've made him bald again, I will punch a fucking wall.

Bad_Boy · Jul 24, 2010

HooYaH said:
The Cole in the video sure looks like David Beckham.

ok that cole is the perfect cole. DONT CHANGE IT AGAIN SP.

Segata Sanshiro · Jul 24, 2010

Irish said:
Not this shit again. Personality is not based on looks. From the videos, new Cole acts exactly like old Cole.

Not to disagree with your point (I expect Cole to behave similarly regardless of how he looks), but personality is often highly influenced by appearance, both in terms of how we perceive ourselves and how we perceive others. You could have Old Cole and New Cole doing and saying the exact same things and most people would perceive them to have different personalities based on the extreme difference in their appearance.

Ether_Snake · Jul 24, 2010

Uuuh??? I didn't see anything wrong with the character designer, unless being better than the first is not considered an improvement??

Rapping Granny · Jul 24, 2010

jett said:
That's not too bad, I'd like to see how he looks in-game. Seems they've gone full bald instead of a shaved head for some reason.

Never go full bald, you'll lose sales to the dudebro crowd.

dilatedmuscle · Jul 24, 2010

I dont understand why they made him look like such a tool for the sequel in the first place.

Y2Kev · Jul 24, 2010

dilatedmuscle said:
I dont understand why they made him look like such a tool for the sequel in the first place.

I don't know WHAT he looked like. His in-game model looked different than the GameInformer cover that looked different from the art. It was just a mess.

eznark · Jul 24, 2010

Ether_Snake said:
Uuuh??? I didn't see anything wrong with the character designer, unless being better than the first is not considered an improvement??

Every protagonist needs more tribal tats and pookah shells.

Segata Sanshiro · Jul 24, 2010

Ether_Snake said:
Uuuh??? I didn't see anything wrong with the character designer, unless being better than the first is not considered an improvement??

The problem wasn't whether he was better or worse or improved or green eggs and ham, it was that he looked like a completely different guy down to the last detail but was still supposed to be the same guy.

Like I said earlier, I'd be totally okay and even happy if they altered Old Cole's appearance to reflect his supposed new attitude, but within the realm of believability. Growing out the hair, growing a little facial hair, wearing some new duds, even getting a tatty or two, that's all fine by me. Total facial reconstruction and de-aging 10 years, not so much.

ShockingAlberto · Jul 24, 2010

My problem with new Cole, besides the tribal tattoos, was how cynical and unnecessary the changes were.

It'd be one thing if Sucker Punch said "Yeah, Cole decided to start fresh and put his past behind him, so he grew out his hair and changed his clothes." That's a reasonable excuse!

But they pretty explicitly said "Some people didn't like the original Cole we designed, and this design tests well, so we're going with this."

This is why I'm raising an eyebrow at all the people imploring Sucker Punch to stick to their original vision and not listen to fan outcries. If you wanted that, wouldn't you have wanted the original design from inFamous 1 from the getgo?

Or, let me put it another way: If the news story were "Sucker Punch casts off focus testing, returns Cole back to his original design," do you think you'd stay quiet or find a new angle to complain from?

hxa155 · Jul 24, 2010

Y2Kev said:
I don't know WHAT he looked like. His in-game model looked different than the GameInformer cover that looked different from the art. It was just a mess.

The comic cutscene looks a bit different too.

SapientWolf · Jul 24, 2010

The Prototype guys already created the definitive Cole McGrath, as far as I'm concerned.

ShockingAlberto · Jul 24, 2010

Irish said:
Not this shit again. Personality is not based on looks. From the videos, new Cole acts exactly like old Cole.

For what it's worth, the original Game Informer article specifically did mention a personality change for Cole to not be so downtrodden and pessimistic and more happy and wise-crackin'.

Jonnyboy117 · Jul 24, 2010

Both versions are lame. I hope they go to something new and different.

Castle Doctrine · Jul 24, 2010

Okay that David Beckham Cole isn't too bad, I'd have to see more pictures though. Still, I was hoping the guy had hair. I'm tired of bald guys.

Azure Dream · Jul 24, 2010

Kind of odd for them to pan by this during the interview, since I doubt it was an early Cole design. There's no character by this name in Sly Cooper, to my quick check.

Love the letter on the right. :lol

seady · Jul 24, 2010

Remember the reaction of this when it was first revealed? Now it is one of the most beloved and memorable art direction ever in a game.

What would it be had Nintendo freaked out and pulled the plug after that outcry? That's the difference between a developer that have faith in themselves and a developer that does not.

Gilgamesh · Jul 24, 2010

Man, what the hell is with the 5000 designs they've made for Cole? I liked the one they had on the Game Informer cover...

revolverjgw · Jul 24, 2010

HooYaH said:
The Cole in the video sure looks like David Beckham.

THAT Cole would be very good. I would approve.

Shao Kahn Brewing a Stew · Jul 24, 2010

Yoboman said:
You forgot the link to the official website in your shameless plug

Yeah I wish Shitivision was paying me for the shameless plugs...

Psy-Phi · Jul 24, 2010

jett said:
That's not too bad, I'd like to see how he looks in-game. Seems they've gone full bald instead of a shaved head for some reason.

Bald because he's got electricity flowing through his body?

. They should make him hairless. No eyebrows, no eyelashes,

Unknown One · Jul 24, 2010

Irish said:
Not this shit again. Personality is not based on looks. From the videos, new Cole acts exactly like old Cole.

Then again, I guess all the "true fans" forgot about Cole screaming "OH HELL YEAH!" and having genuine fun when he discovered he could grind on powerlines and whatnot.

Exactly anybody who seen the new comic book cutscene would know his personality seems intact.

VegaShinra · Jul 24, 2010

So is that the new Cole design? Looks good.

akachan ningen · Jul 24, 2010

preorder canceled if Cole has no hair.

lightless_shado · Jul 24, 2010

Damnit no. Just because most gamers are 30-somethings doesn't mean that I should be playing as one. No offense to 30+ year old dudes that look vibrant and young like new cole/nathan drake.

This has been the generation of the bald white male lead.

MoonsaultSlayer · Jul 24, 2010

Irish said:
Not this shit again. Personality is not based on looks. From the videos, new Cole acts exactly like old Cole.

Then again, I guess all the "true fans" forgot about Cole screaming "OH HELL YEAH!" and having genuine fun when he discovered he could grind on powerlines and whatnot.

What I saw in the new video is fine... great actually. What I refered to there was his "attitude" in the old trailer coupled with the tats and bandages that, yes, represent personality.

MoonsaultSlayer · Jul 24, 2010

lightless_shado said:
Damnit no. Just because most gamers are 30-somethings doesn't mean that I should be playing as one. No offense to 30+ year old dudes that look vibrant and young like new cole/nathan drake.

This has been the generation of the bald white male lead.

You ever think that it's what the devs relate to? Or maybe that it's the most marketable? Sure, diversity would be great and all, but I think devs would have a hard time making a game with ethnic characters without A) resorting to stereotypes or B) convincing folks that you're not using stereotypes.

Besides, I noticed in the paper when the world cup ended (I don't watch) and saw that the winning team comprised of clones of the same guy. A whitish male with dark hair is sort of universal and appeals to a bigger audience because he can look like he's from anywhere. Shaving the head just makes it easier for the devs but also is something everyone can do. Adding a style or a specific do can alienate certain people do to cultural differences or straight up ignorance. Hell, a shaved head is timeless. Can you imagine if twenty-thirty years from now the faux hawk is a forgotton fad and represent the ol' times, therefore making many games today seem dated. Much like those poochy images shwon earlier.

electroshockwave · Jul 24, 2010

seady said:
Remember the reaction of this when it was first revealed? Now it is one of the most beloved and memorable art direction ever in a game.

What would it be had Nintendo freaked out and pulled the plug after that outcry? That's the difference between a developer that have faith in themselves and a developer that does not.

Wind Waker isn't a particularly good example to make a comparison here. In Infamous' case the only thing people are complaining about is the character design which is a relatively small fix compared to the cost of redoing Wind Waker's whole art design. Also, Link isn't an individual character so changes to how he looks aren't as jarring but Wind Waker still had the consistency of design to have his tunic, undershirt, cap etc. whereas Nu-Cole looked unrecognisable. Sucker Punch were right to give into the fan outcry.

Personally, i hope that he looks more like Cole from the GameInformer cover with a more interesting t-shirt, minimal or no tattoos and no hipster pants.

Gattsu25 · Jul 24, 2010

The new voice actor was far more offensive than the player model. Sheesh

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