Maintenance
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Flipping more switches than a Nintendo scalper. The Scorpio will probably be a great machine but let's not fall for PR bullshit again.
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MS not mandating any framerate or fidelity requirements on Scorpio including in MP
- Thread starter Kayant
- Start date
Flipping more switches than a Nintendo scalper. The Scorpio will probably be a great machine but let's not fall for PR bullshit again.
WhiskerFrisker
Member
Because. Microsoft. Hasn't. Fully. Unveiled it.
SenjutsuSage
Banned
Exactly. It seems like if people can't have it for their preferred console, then the conclusion seems to be that it's better that nobody else has it either. Nobody is forbidden from buying scorpio. And if they're not going to buy scorpio, and aren't even interested in the xbox one version of a game anyway, what's the point of the complaint?
People are specifically buying scorpio because they want to take advantage of whatever advantages or enhancements it will bring.
'nuff said, really.
pretty done
Member
lol
I prefer Microsoft's handling of possible FPS gains over Sony's.
You don't need to tell a 3rd party dev team what is 'fair.' Each game maker will listen to their fans and decide for themselves how best to utilize Scorpio. Ubisoft is more in touch with what players want from an Ubisoft game than Microsoft. Let Ubisoft do what it wants with this new tech and trust that they'll do right by their fans.
You don't need to tell a 3rd party dev team what is 'fair.' Each game maker will listen to their fans and decide for themselves how best to utilize Scorpio. Ubisoft is more in touch with what players want from an Ubisoft game than Microsoft. Let Ubisoft do what it wants with this new tech and trust that they'll do right by their fans.
I cared about parity somewhat when the mid-gen upgrades were announced, but yeah, it's already a joke. Add people on PS4 use mouse/keyboards to the list.
Goodacre0081
Member
no body left behind...
SenjutsuSage
Banned
And what he said. I wouldn't be remotely surprised if Destiny 2 is also 30fps on Scorpio, but I don't believe for a second it couldn't be 60 on Scorpio, even with what they said about CPU. Scorpio with the specs as presented seems more than capable of pulling this off. The GPU headroom alone should make this possible.
Apoleptica
Banned
With 60 fps it's a lot easier to see and track other players on screen as the motion is a lot smoother, allowing for much better aiming. High skill can still trump everything though, 60 fps players aren't automatically better than 30 fps players. However if both players are equally skilled then the one playing at 60 fps would have a significant advantage.
I like how you are completely overlooking the fact that there is also 12gb of GDDR5 RAM and a much more powerful GPU. Yes the CPU is again going to be a bottleneck limiter and people are silly to think that somehow the difference is enough for PS4 Pro to only be 4K/30 while Scorpio would be 4K/60, but the performance gains would be enough where PS4 Pro may not hit 4K/30 while Scorpio could and PS4 Pro may have to start being 4Kpr or have much more frame drops compared to Scorpio. The difference between Scorpio and PS4 Pro is larger than the difference between Xbox One and PS4 was in terms of what they can do.
Destiny 2, if they could not hit 4k/60 on PS4 Pro, it is also not going to be 4K/60fps on Scorpio. It will also not be 4K/60FPS for a lot of PC's except very high end GPU or expensive builds. It is why so many who were at the event were tweeting things like damn I have to build a new PC now etc.
Maintenance
Member
Raw numbers the difference between Scorpio > Pro to PS4 > XB1 would be around 5-8% to the former. I'm pretty sure someone will read this the wrong way, so to be clear I'm talking about comparing the gaps, not one console versus the other. Between consoles the gap is around 30 to 40.
OnionPowder
Member
There is a reason MS and Sony focus exclusively​ on resolution. CPU has no bearing on it. Games that are 30FPS because of CPU limitations will be 30FPS on the Scorpio 80% of the time. The 24% increase over the OG XB1 would bring 30 to 37. Unless they have a frame rate prior to v-sync of around 49 FPS you most likely won't hit 60
I know it won't be that black and white, and there is a lot more work that goes into it than that most of the time. It's not going to magically fix the CPU limitations just because you can pump out more pixels at once.
Also, people freaking out about 30 FPS vs 60
I play CSGO with my mate and he's at 30FPS and I'm playing at 144FPS. Not that big of a deal. He'll still out play me sometimes.
And all of this
I know it won't be that black and white, and there is a lot more work that goes into it than that most of the time. It's not going to magically fix the CPU limitations just because you can pump out more pixels at once.
Also, people freaking out about 30 FPS vs 60
I play CSGO with my mate and he's at 30FPS and I'm playing at 144FPS. Not that big of a deal. He'll still out play me sometimes.
And all of this
Yeah, MS should force developers not to use a single bit of Scorpio extra power.
lukeskymac
Member
But those literally don't matter in this case. At all. It could have 12 Terabytes of HBM5 RAM and a Petaflop GPU and it wouldn't matter for this.
Wait, so you get it?
...what?
Factually untrue.
Nothing suggests Destiny 2 will be any harder to get to 4K60FPS on PC than any other game which is 1080p30 on consoles.
You guys are setting yourselves up for disappointment. Most Scorpio games are probably going to look identical to PS4 Pro save for native 4K, simply because no one that's not Microsoft is going to bother making extensive modifications just for one niche sub-platform. Only games that were already somewhat close to 60fps when unlocked have a chance at reaching smooth 60 on the Scorpio.
Pretty much
You're right it don't exist going back it was just a comment from a ND dev that videogamer clickbaited into "Sony" as we don't have context of the question he could have very well just be talking about ND's thoughts.
In case people are interested in seeing it again -
Also Battleborn support the same target fps(60) on XB1 and PS4.
It's both actually 😉-
As I mentioned in the other thread, it's clear that MS don't care about fps parity in games. They allow Gear 4 MP between PC and XBO when the PC version can run at 100fps while the XBO is stuck at 60fps.
I don't think you understood the meaning behind that line. They made it pretty clear that it referred to no game or mode (outside of VR) would be exclusive to Scorpio.
no body left behind...
I don't think you understood the meaning behind that line. They made it pretty clear that it referred to no game or mode (outside of VR) would be exclusive to Scorpio.
diablos991
Can’t stump the diablos
Fantastic news. Hope they drive the knife deep into Sony for that shitty parity decision.
Scorpio is shaping up to be quite the machine.
Scorpio is shaping up to be quite the machine.
no body left behind...
No one is left behind = No exclusives. Go check last MS E3 again
What shitty parity decision? As explained in the post DIRECTLY ABOVE YOURS, there's no such Sony parity requirement.
Just bad journalism.
captainraincoat
Banned
the salt is already starting to seep out around here.....would be funny to see the reactions if they announced the scorpio version was uncapped 4k
SenjutsuSage
Banned
Uncapped wouldn't be a good idea in my opinion. Lock it at 60, if there is a 60fps mode at all, or just lock it down to 30fps and call it a day.
LukasTaves
Member
Devs are not required to folllow the same frame rate as xbone, but Ms did say on Scorpio DF reveal that any mode should be available at all resolutions. So if the game has a 60fps mode it should be available to 4k users as well (though not necessarily rendering natively in 4k)
Wouldn't it make sense for devs to make Scorpio lead console platform, hit targets needed and then pare down if needed for PS4 Pro and PS4 and then finally Xbox One, and scale up for PC? Scorpio will be niche I agree, but the architecture very similar to point that they can do what they need to for all platforms really. Or maybe hit targets with PS4 Pro and then polish for Scorpio?
But you're right. I feel will just be few frames difference or native 4K versus scaling 4KPr or checkerboard 4K between the versions.
-hadouken
Member
Talking about D2? If so, the salt will be coming from the Scorpio devotees setting themselves up for disappointment. From what has been stated by Bungie (and shown from how they handled D1) D2 is the last game you would bank on to showcase the scope of the Scorpio.
Feeling confident of 4K native 60fps (or uncapped)? Then I invite you to join me in a little wager...
LukasTaves
Member
Not necessarily true. With more ram you can prebake more stuff or compress less and save significant gpu and cpu resources during gameplay.
I don't think so. Xbone to Ps4 had the same amount of RAM, xbone had a slightly higher clocked cpu, but there was the virtualization overhead, xbone had esram which did offered some advantages in some scenarios.
Scorpio is just plain better on all accounts. It has a faster gpu, it has a faster CPU and supposedly with less overhead and improved co processors to have even more available to the game, it has more memory (8GB for games versus 5.5), and that memory is over 100GB/s faster without any kind of embedded ram on Ps4 to make it up for the difference.
Developers are already making PC versions of most games, and for most cases Pc versions of those games already has better assets and effects than the Ps4 Pro version. Perhaps Scorpio won't be able to deliver ultra, but it should offer more than Pro than just a resolution bump.
SenjutsuSage
Banned
Not like I'm even highly interested in Destiny 2 right now, because honestly the first was a disappointment as far as I'm concerned. It wasn't at all what I hoped it would be. But if what Microsoft said to DF, about making things as easy as possible for developers with Scorpio, I see absolutely no reason why the Scorpio version of Destiny 2 couldn't have a 60fps mode, whether that be at 1080p, 4K, or something a bit less than 4K.
And I see people having all these concerns, not sure if it's going on in this particular thread since I haven't read everything - although it's certainly a concern on twitter - about whether or not whatever deal Sony has with Activision will end up preventing them from doing what they can to take advantage of Scorpio. I really don't have that concern. And if it does end up happening, it won't necessarily because there was a deal to make sure it didn't happen, but more that it just isn't a priority.
rokkerkory
Member
It better bring it
-hadouken
Member
Ooh, do enlighten us.
BlitzerRadic
Member
That's a pretty ridiculous list. No one complains about lack of parity with that stuff because there's no way to enforce it. 30 fps vs 60fps can absolutely be enforced.
captainraincoat
Banned
Lol...no could not care less about the frame rate...im more of an added detail sorta guy
OnionPowder
Member
statham
Member
some reason some peeps are forgetting Scorpio has a 3gb advantage in memory, they will be able to use PC assets in high reas. The GPU alone will make it 4k instead of checkerboard, the 3gb will make it even more prettier. then add in the faster cpu for smoother framerate.
molnizzle
Member
The point is that "parity" doesn't exist and never has. It's a ridiculous reason to hold back a game on better hardware. You've never been on an equal playing field.
OnionPowder
Member
The extra 3GB probably isn't enough for high res textures at 4K (I play games that use 6 to 8GB of VRAM alone at 1080p), but it definitely was the right move. I was dumbfounded how Sony only increased it by 500MB. Textures at 4K are really demanding.
I think it'll show the biggest advantages in the coming digital foundries
Shpeshal Nick
aka Collingwood
Good point.
I was getting confused with co-op.
Played last night with a friend on his laptop in the same room. He was at 60 on a 980M. I was on Xbox
VoodooProject
Member
Wait you sound so confused and fud.
VoodooProject
Member
You have it all wrong. You need a graphics card with at least a memory bandwidth of 320GB/s which Scorpio is at least equipped with.
Yeah.. this really sucks. I would never buy a XBox again if I'd be forced to buy the new one on launch to not have a big disadvantage in MP matches. There are already enough things that can give you an advantage in Multiplayer (even on console) and they make it worse with a huge difference like that. The difference in a game like BF1 on PS4 vs Pro is already bad enough since it's more unstable on the base model. But that isn't close to this, esspecially if it is allowed for every game.
People saying "consoles are just bad PCs for the living room" will be right soon, at least when looking at XBox.
For me that's the one point that Sony got right with the Pro and better than MS if that becomes reality.
I hope most devs won't allow that. The good thing is that more devs are going for 60fps in MP on the base models this gen anyways, but it's still not everyone.
People saying "consoles are just bad PCs for the living room" will be right soon, at least when looking at XBox.
For me that's the one point that Sony got right with the Pro and better than MS if that becomes reality.
I hope most devs won't allow that. The good thing is that more devs are going for 60fps in MP on the base models this gen anyways, but it's still not everyone.
VoodooProject
Member
I play Battlefront on my PC that averages 75fps while others with monster rigs running over 160 fps and they don't have a advantage over me.
With the weak sauce jag based cpu nah. The bungie dudes pretty much confirmed 30 when they said they couldn't do 60 on pro due to cpu.
Hawk269
Member
While I agree with you, I think many are looking at resolution and FPS and not considering all the other benefits that could be applied to the game. Things like 16xAF, better shadows, better textures due to the higher RAM and many are not considering the massive memory bandwidth that could also help. I am not suggesting or implying that the Scorpio version will be 4k/60fps, but most likely will be 4k/30fps and have plenty of overhead for other things like the 16xAF and perhaps better shadows/texture resolution. Depending on the engine on my PC many games in 4k don't need AA, but some still do. 4k does eliminate many jaggies, but some games still exhibit them at that high resolution so having some AA solutions depending on the engine and how it handles 4k can also be applied to further enhance the IQ.
I think/believe that many here (not all) think that Scorpio will be Xbox One games, but in 4k and calling it day...I really think with the tech inside the box we are going to see a lot more than that...I mean, if that was what we would be getting, there would be ZERO reason for them to go to 12gb of RAM.
Prototype Viktor
Member
As I don't pay attention to what MS does but they ever lift those requirements from 2 years(?) Back that caused a uproar