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Biden disses Clinton: I never thought she was a great candidate. I thought I was...'
- Thread starter TangoAlphaLima
- Start date
I both agree and disagree with this for two reasons.
I disagree with the "you have to give people something to vote for" hot take for two reasons: 1) it disregards Hillary's support. Believe it or not, many people actually like Hillary. Myself, the majority of the Democrats I worked with last year, and most of my family, worked our butts off because we genuinely wanted to see Hillary and her style of politics in the White House. 2) I believe that elections are equal parts voting for and against someone. Anti-Hillary hate certainly helped propel Trump into the White House. Obama's "Hope and Change" campaign was as powerful as it was because it drew a not-so-subtle contrast to the horror of the Bush years which would have been continued with McCain in office. And finally my own vote was every bit as much against Trump as it was for Hillary, because I'm black and gay. Marginalized groups very rarely have the privilege of voting "for" someone. Our votes tend to be against the person we feel will fuck us over the most.
But I agree 100% with Democrats needing to get off their high horse. We have policies that are beneficial for most Americans. But we continuously lose the messaging war by refusing to appeal to people's feelings.
Yeah man, that lack of appeal that got her 3 million more votes than Trump.
And she lost.
Conciliator
Banned
but it was Her Time
Yes, the woman that got 48% of the vote the last time around needed help to get 55% this time, when she was more popular and more qualified.
Biden didn't run because he would have lost the primary. He was a crap candidate all of the previous times he ran for president, and wouldn't have done better as a grieving 73-year-old.
If Hillary has a total lack of appeal, then what do you call Biden's previous runs for president?
That is completely unrelated to what I said.
I replied to someone who said she had a "total lack of appeal," a factually incorrect statement.
shawnbuddy
Member
I agree with royalan. I'm never going to accept "she was the lesser evil" as the default position. I thought Hillary was pretty great and voted for her enthusiastically in the Primary and the general.
kaname-san
Member
Or maybe it was just the fear of trump that got her all those votes. She is easily one of the least liked candidates in history.
We are in a partisan time, and candidates are generally going to be reviled by the other side. Obama was the most hated candidate in history as of 2012, and that didn't stop him from winning. Did Obama win because of fear of Romney?
Sirpopopop
Member
You're being a jerk by dismissing out of hand the testimony of posters within this thread about why they voted for Hillary.
She was also a fantastic choice for the job who would have done good things for the country.
So, you know, there's that too.
And could actually answer policy questions.
She's the most technocratic major party candidate of my lifetime.
cheezcake
Member
Paul Graham said:
I think this is succinct and on point. Clinton was a subpar candidate when measured by her ability to influence voters but would have been a damn good president. But in the realm of politics that unfortunately means very little, and will always mean little without a significant culture shift in the country.
shinra-bansho
Member
Okay, America's Prince Phillip.
TheLaughingStock
Member
I believe technically they didn't lose every branch but it was a disaster. Also, I wouldn't generalize all Clintonites because there's a lot of folks on the GOP side parroting similar talking points about how they think vs. everyone else. Nevertheless, Nassim Taleb has a great phrase that sums up that kind of "pragmatist" and their ideology which is Intellectual Yet Idiot.
He's not entirely wrong but at the same time, I still think there was no he way he could beat her in the primary.. Democrats have always loved Hillary Clinton and would have done anything to get her there. They'll always vote for her and they really wanted her then. I know I really wanted her. Sucks that this is the way things ended.
ClayKavalier
Banned
Run then, motherfucker. I understand he was mourning his son, and I would have voted for him over her, but these kind of what-ifs after the fact don't help anything. This comes across as him congratulating himself for being awesome.
Unknown Soldier
Member
Joe did nothing wrong.
If you want to know a bit about why Biden chose not to run against Hillary, there's about half a chapter in Shattered which covers Biden's vacillating back and forth in late 2014/early 2015 when he was considering a run. Ultimately he chose not to run because Hillary had already basically locked the party down and he didn't have anyone willing to work for his putative campaign because they were all afraid of angering the Clintons.
If you want to know a bit about why Biden chose not to run against Hillary, there's about half a chapter in Shattered which covers Biden's vacillating back and forth in late 2014/early 2015 when he was considering a run. Ultimately he chose not to run because Hillary had already basically locked the party down and he didn't have anyone willing to work for his putative campaign because they were all afraid of angering the Clintons.
SolarPowered
Member
Reads like a Trump quote lol. Say what you will about Hillary, but she endured treatment that nearly no other presidential candidate has ever experienced despite being one of the most qualified and supported (yeah, the DNC and democrats all had her back, but that does not mean rigging) to ever run for office. Bernie also clawed his way up from being a relatively unknown senator from Vermont to the face of the democratic party alongside Obama. If Biden wanted it that bad and was that ready for the presidency he should have run.
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