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Damn man, Sanctuary Fortress in Metroid Prime 2 is still so good

A

Amentallica

Unconfirmed Member
http://youtu.be/qqDy8sqKK-c

16:54. The music queuing for the area when Samus enters the bridge. I'll never forget getting up to that part of the game. Never expected the third section of the game to be so damn amazing. From its music (the best), to its atmosphere, to its enemies and final boss, this has to be one of the best maps in the Metroid series. I love Metroid Prime 1 to death, and it is my favorite, but Metroid Prime 2's Sanctuary Fortress has to be the highest of the highs out of all of the games for me.

I wish I could experience it for the first time again. Now I'm sad. :(

What is your favorite section/map in the Metroid series?
 
C

ChaosXVI

Member
I was so looking forward to an HD re-release of the entire Trilogy mainly to see this glorius masterpiece of artwork and level design in HD. But there's always next-generation *sigh*.

For real though, Metroid Prime 2 deserves a lot more love than it got at release...everybody whining about it being too hard ended up making Prime 3 into a total snorefest...even if it was still pretty great.
 
A

Amentallica

Unconfirmed Member
ChaosXVI said:
I was so looking forward to an HD re-release of the entire Trilogy mainly to see this glorius masterpiece of artwork and level design in HD. But there's always next-generation *sigh*.

For real though, Metroid Prime 2 deserves a lot more love than it got at release...everybody whining about it being too hard ended up making Prime 3 into a total snorefest...even if it was still pretty great.
Click to expand...

I haven't played Metroid Prime 3 yet. I didn't like what I saw of it on YouTube so I always held off (plus I never owned a Wii or a Wii U).

Regarding Metroid Prime 2, I think it has some of the highest highs of the series, albeit some of the lowest lows. Love the overall package. Such an amazing game. Can't believe it came so close to be as good as the first game for it being a sequel. That almost never happens. While it was more difficult, it was made so much more fun to play because of it.
 
K

KidB

Member
Yeah, Sanctuary Fortress is the best area in the Prime trilogy, the level design is impeccable. It also has my favorite boss in the series. My only problem with it is that it falls victim to Prime 2's structure of collecting 3 keys in each of the 3 big areas.
 
C

ChaosXVI

Member
Amentallica said:
I haven't played Metroid Prime 3 yet. I didn't like what I saw of it on YouTube so I always held off (plus I never owned a Wii or a Wii U).

Regarding Metroid Prime 2, I think it has some of the highest highs of the series, albeit some of the lowest lows. Love the overall package. Such an amazing game. Can't believe it came so close to be as good as the first game for it being a sequel. That almost never happens. While it was more difficult, it was made so much more fun to play because of it.
Click to expand...

Don't get me wrong, Prime 3 is still a great game to play, but it did feel weird to play a game as hard as Echoes to then go into a game that was easier than the first Prime, and Prime 3 has some of the best art design of the series, but it's a much more linear game is all. It'd have been fine if it were the first entry in the series, and the controls are really fantastic.

But it doesn't come anywhere near Prime 2's highs. No boss in the game is even half of Quadraxis in terms of complexity.
 
SerTapTap

SerTapTap

Member
Love the design in Echos in general, my fav Prime game actually. Sanctuary Fortress was certainly a highlight, Quadraxis is great. Couldn't help but be a bit disappointed in Corruption coming off Echos.
 
N

NotLiquid

Member
Sanctuary Fortress is one of the greatest areas of this entire genre.

Quadraxis is one of, if not the best boss battle of all time.

Not even exaggerating, it's everything a boss should be - a final exam of your abilities.
 
C

chaosblade

Unconfirmed Member
Amentallica said:
I haven't played Metroid Prime 3 yet. I didn't like what I saw of it on YouTube so I always held off (plus I never owned a Wii or a Wii U).

Regarding Metroid Prime 2, I think it has some of the highest highs of the series, albeit some of the lowest lows. Love the overall package. Such an amazing game. Can't believe it came so close to be as good as the first game for it being a sequel. That almost never happens. While it was more difficult, it was made so much more fun to play because of it.
Click to expand...

This was my opinion on the game, but after my last replay I don't really think this anymore. It doesn't do much worse than Prime 1 or 3. The key hunt is the biggest thing that stands out, since nearly all of them require the very last powerup before you can get them. The visuals of the dark world are also kind of a sticking point, for a series with such excellent art it's disappointing all the areas end up looking more or less the same.

Beyond that though, most of the issues are pretty nitpicky and easily comparable to the ones in the other two games. And the highs the game offers dramatically outweigh the two biggest negatives.

The dark world itself tends to be an issue for a lot of players initially (or a something they never really get over) but Retro's execution of the concept really clicked with me on my last playthrough. It's a testament to their design abilities that they were able to create a world so off-putting and uninviting that players legitimately don't want to be there not because its "bad" but because the atmosphere there is just so incredibly well done.

The way they handled the suit upgrades and Dark Aether damage is nothing short of brilliant. The Varia suit takes quite a bit of damage and really makes the player dread Dark Aether, but it's not long before you get the Dark Suit the damage becomes a non-issue. And yet, since the player still takes damage, just a lot more slowly, that sense of dread remains. Then you get the Light Suit at the very end of the game, and you can finally traverse Dark Aether in its entirety without fear of any damage. It might be the single best powerup in the series in terms of making you feel more powerful.
 
N

Nocturnowl

Member
Sanctuary Fortress is so damn good, the rest of Prime 2 as great as it is feels like a warm up to the spectacle sanctuary main event.

It think The Xtortionist summed it up well back in the Trilogy OT...
Quite possibly the pinnacle of 3D video game level design as we know it - I want some of whatever the level designers for this place were smoking. Many rooms serve a dual purpose (often utilizing spider ball tracks) to keep players guessing. Sanctuary Fortress features some of the few actual puzzles in the series by way of the process to shut off the gyroscope, the rotating color puzzles at the second gyroscope, and the echo gates. Sanctuary Fortress takes place across multiple massive floors, creating a vast sense of scope. Did I mention the bosses? Spider Guardian is fuckin' insanity, the mini-boss utilizing spider ball tracks is always a huge surprise, Dark Samus is a fun fight yet again, and Quadraxis remains arguably the greatest first-person boss battle of all time. The level of complexity here is also at an all time high, demanding absolute care and attention from the player. Shit, did I forget to mention the sense of life in this place brought on by the constant sense of movement and "bustle" in the environment? Or that Rezbits are like, the coolest shit ever? Or that...

Sanctuary Fortress, man.

Best moments: All of them.
Click to expand...

Indeed, best area in the entire series.
 
A

Amentallica

Unconfirmed Member
chaosblade said:
This was my opinion on the game, but after my last replay I don't really think this anymore. It doesn't do much worse than Prime 1 or 3. The key hunt is the biggest thing that stands out, since nearly all of them require the very last powerup before you can get them. The visuals of the dark world are also kind of a sticking point, for a series with such excellent art it's disappointing all the areas end up looking more or less the same.

Beyond that though, most of the issues are pretty nitpicky and easily comparable to the ones in the other two games. And the highs the game offers dramatically outweigh the two biggest negatives.

The dark world itself tends to be an issue for a lot of players initially (or a something they never really get over) but Retro's execution of the concept really clicked with me on my last playthrough. It's a testament to their design abilities that they were able to create a world so off-putting and uninviting that players legitimately don't want to be there not because its "bad" but because the atmosphere there is just so incredibly well done.

The way they handled the suit upgrades and Dark Aether damage is nothing short of brilliant. The Varia suit takes quite a bit of damage and really makes the player dread Dark Aether, but it's not long before you get the Dark Suit the damage becomes a non-issue. And yet, since the player still takes damage, just a lot more slowly, that sense of dread remains. Then you get the Light Suit at the very end of the game, and you can finally traverse Dark Aether in its entirety without fear of any damage. It might be the single best powerup in the series in terms of making you feel more powerful.
Click to expand...

It's interesting because I never found this to be a complaint of mine. Dark Aether is dreadful, as you said, so I never expected much variety, especially since the theme is that once you enter the dark side of Aether, it's rather dangerous. Dark Aether made the player anxious and depressed, akin to depression in real life where nothing seems to be a solution and everything seems to be the same (at least that's what I got out of it).

When I refer to the lows of Metroid Prime 2, I am referring to the use of ammo for the beam weapons. I've always loved the Metroid series because of the permanence of the beams you acquire (having no ammo), but when I saw I had ammo for my dark/light/annihilator beams, I was pretty bummed. But that's about it. Oh, and I didn't enjoy key hunting in Metroid Prime 2 as I did in 1, for some reason, but that's a small complaint.

Metroid Prime still remains my favorite game/Metroid game ever, but I find that with each passing year my opinion of Metroid Prime 2 gets better and better. Metroid Prime is coming very close to being dethroned, as I've come to appreciate Metroid Prime 2 more and more as time goes on, while I find that I've exhausted all of my appreciation for Metroid Prime 1, making it impossible to feel any more positive about that game than I already do.
 
D

DedValve

Banned
Torvus Bog is better. When I heard that name I thought "swamp?" then I went there and I was like "swamp".

THATS how you do a swamp.
 
Gusy

Gusy

Member
It's an achievement that MP2 can stand on its own against MP (MP is damn near perfect).

I recently replayed MP2 with the Wii hooked up to a CRT TV. Man... these games look absolutely amazing on CRT'S. I'm convinced this is the best way to play them.
 
C

chaosblade

Unconfirmed Member
Amentallica said:
It's interesting because I never found this to be a complaint of mine. Dark Aether is dreadful, as you said, so I never expected much variety, especially since the theme is that once you enter the dark side of Aether, it's rather dangerous. Dark Aether made the player anxious and depressed, akin to depression in real life where nothing seems to be a solution and everything seems to be the same (at least that's what I got out of it).

When I refer to the lows of Metroid Prime 2, I am referring to the use of ammo for the beam weapons. I've always loved the Metroid series because of the permanence of the beams you acquire (having no ammo), but when I saw I had ammo for my dark/light/annihilator beams, I was pretty bummed. But that's about it. Oh, and I didn't enjoy key hunting in Metroid Prime 2 as I did in 1, for some reason, but that's a small complaint.

Metroid Prime still remains my favorite game/Metroid game ever, but I find that with each passing year my opinion of Metroid Prime 2 gets better and better. Metroid Prime is coming very close to being dethroned, as I've come to appreciate Metroid Prime 2 more and more as time goes on, while I find that I've exhausted all of my appreciation for Metroid Prime 1, making it impossible to feel any more positive about that game than I already do.
Click to expand...

Yeah, beam ammo is one of those minor issues. If you don't miss expansions, you can mostly ignore the ammo counter as long as you aren't wasting shots shooting at random stuff (like I do!). The game gives ample amounts of ammo from crates/caches when you start getting low.

The idea behind it was sound - in Prime 1 the Power Beam became less useful with each new beam you acquired, with the Plasma Beam rendering it effectively useless outside power beam specific weaknesses (which amounts to one enemy and part of the final boss).

They would have been better off re-balancing the power of each beam and enemies strengths and weaknesses to keep the Power Beam relevant against enemies that don't require light/dark shots to kill efficiently.
 
A

Amentallica

Unconfirmed Member
chaosblade said:
Yeah, beam ammo is one of those minor issues. If you don't miss expansions, you can mostly ignore the ammo counter as long as you aren't wasting shots shooting at random stuff (like I do!). The game gives ample amounts of ammo from crates/caches when you start getting low.

The idea behind it was sound - in Prime 1 the Power Beam became less useful with each new beam you acquired, with the Plasma Beam rendering it effectively useless outside power beam specific weaknesses (which amounts to one enemy and part of the final boss).

They would have been better off re-balancing the power of each beam and enemies strengths and weaknesses to keep the Power Beam relevant against enemies that don't require light/dark shots to kill efficiently.
Click to expand...

Absolutely agree with the bolded. Would have much rather preferred that.
 
S

Seik

Banned
I always wanted to play Prime 2, but damn, I need to get done with the first one, first.

I should give it another shot on Dolphin tonight, last time I tried Dolphin crashed on me...I wanna do all 3 in HD! D:
 
K

Kyuur

Member
My fiancee is playing through the games and she is almost there, pretty excited. Might have to wait a bit as she got kind of frustrated with Torvus Bog (we hiked in and out of the underwater area 3 or 4 times due to missing stuff even though we thought we looked everywhere) :(
 
K

KHlover

Banned
Yeah, Sanctuary is the best area of Metroid Prime 2. I'd even call it "good", which isn't a word I usually use to describe Metroid Prime 2.
 
A

Aostia

El Capitan Todd
AuthenticM said:
This entire game is amazing. I've never understood why the general opinion is that it's the worst of the trilogy.
Click to expand...

for me, the light/shadow dynamic was a little too restrictive, and some areas/bosses really had difficulty spike issues.
Plus, it somehow suffered from being a direct sequel to the first that was seens as ground breaking, bringing Metroid into the 3D arena with a "fps" approach.
To me:

Prime: a huge step from the past, great way of keeping some Metroid aspects intact into the first person 3D world for the first time. it was "a first" and a great one.
Echoes: in order to differentiate itself from the predecessor, they tried some new dynamics that ended up beinf too restrictive and the game also suffered from difficutly spike issues
Corruption: the wiimote controls, a fresher narrative approach and some godly inspired environment (Elysia) put it in second place to me.
 
C

ChaosXVI

Member
As someone who is currently playing Majora's Mask for the first time, I've noticed a lot of comparisons...for instance, which game is this?

A very quickly made sequel to one of the most critically acclaimed and groundbreaking games of all time, which saw a 2D to 3D transition. This sequel ramped up the difficulty significantly, almost assuming that anyone playing had played and completed its predecessor. The game's mechanics are all around nearly the same, but with a much gloomier, almost soul-crushing atmosphere, as well as a more insane art-style to compliment it's darker tone.

Also, purple is villified as the most evil color there is.

Yeah. Think about that.
 
G

GiantEnemyGoomba

Member
I lost my shit when that one enemy first shut off my visor.

I didn't think anything in a Metroid game could top Phendrana Drifts, but Sanctuary Fortress did just that and took it a step further by becoming one of my favorite areas in any video game ever.
 
O

Overside

Banned
ChaosXVI said:
As someone who is currently playing Majora's Mask for the first time, I've noticed a lot of comparisons...for instance, which game is this?

A very quickly made sequel to one of the most critically acclaimed and groundbreaking games of all time, which saw a 2D to 3D transition. This sequel ramped up the difficulty significantly, almost assuming that anyone playing had played and completed its predecessor. The game's mechanics are all around nearly the same, but with a much gloomier, almost soul-crushing atmosphere, as well as a more insane art-style to compliment it's darker tone.

Also, purple is villified as the most evil color there is.

Yeah. Think about that.
Click to expand...

Ursula.jpg

hqdefault.jpg

Dream-that-never-got-off.jpg

thanos-pic-4_3_r536_c534.jpg
 
Paltheos

Paltheos

Member
On my first play through I would have said Sanctuary is my favorite area, but after many replays of Echoes, (Upper) Torvus Bog is definitely my favorite. I'm not entirely sure why, but upper Torvus having my favorite music track definitely plays a part of it.

chaosblade said:
Yeah, beam ammo is one of those minor issues. If you don't miss expansions, you can mostly ignore the ammo counter as long as you aren't wasting shots shooting at random stuff (like I do!). The game gives ample amounts of ammo from crates/caches when you start getting low.

The idea behind it was sound - in Prime 1 the Power Beam became less useful with each new beam you acquired, with the Plasma Beam rendering it effectively useless outside power beam specific weaknesses (which amounts to one enemy and part of the final boss).

They would have been better off re-balancing the power of each beam and enemies strengths and weaknesses to keep the Power Beam relevant against enemies that don't require light/dark shots to kill efficiently.
Click to expand...

Yeah, beam ammo is a sticking point for allot of people but after replaying the game consciously choosing to not worry about running out of ammo, it's really not an issue.

Some rebalance for the beams was called for, but I think it's another one of those things that got lost in the crunch (Echoes is obviously rushed once you look under the surface). Annihilator got hit by this really hard imo. It's a big letdown from the hype building all game over what your 4th beam will be and the excitement from picking up that drop. It's so situational, and I can't help but get the idea that Retro reacted too hard (incorrectly?) to how powerful the Plasma Beam is.

The Annihilator Beam should have been an ultimate weapon and tool, the whole game is building up to you pounding back at Dark Aether like it pounded at you. A Do-it-all beams that opens all doors, hits all dark/light weak enemies for extra damage, and does to crystals/beacons something like what they do in-game (the pull-in on Ing, and the homing property of this Annihilator would be unnecessary I think) fits with the Light Suit.
 
C

correojon

Member
I finished Echoes for the first time this Sunday and I think it really surpasses Prime (which I finished for the second time 2 weeks ago). It may be because I had already beaten Prime some years ago, or because the amazingness of the Sanctuary Fortress is still stuck on my head, but I really felt something special with Echoes.

Sanctuary Fortress is probably the best level ever. It has cool music, great atmosphere, challenging puzzles, perfectly used verticality, huge moments like the fight against Dark Samus, interesting and fun bosses and a final boss which I can´t find a word fitting enough to describe it´s greatness. It´s a level that forces you to hang over a bottomless pit in Morph Ball mode while you prepare a jump to a different spider track, also hanging in the air. It twists your mind making you switch from light to dark dimensions 4 times in a single room, having to balance mentally the path that will open when you exit the portal from the other side each time. It grants you the wish of flight and then sets before you cool sceneries to use it. I could go on, it´s just what videogames should be: fun, challenging, surprising...

I agree with the majority who dislikes the Light/Dark ammo system and that felt that the Annihilator Beam was somewhat disappointing, I really hope Retro would have developed more distinct, original beams (and without ammo). The quest for 3 keys for every temple gave me mixed feelings, it sometimes became frustrating when you were missing one obvious key you had forgotten.

I think that many people have Prime in such a high regard over Echoes and Corruption because it was something totally new at the time, it had nothing to be compared against, while Echoes has had to suffer the comparison from the first day. Don´t get me wrong, Prime is an exceptionally great game, but Echoes reached me in a way Prime didn´t.

Also, when playing Prime and Echoes I got the feeling Dark Souls must have been inspired a lot by it, even more than from Zelda. There were moments in my exploration when I got feelings of walking through Lordran. Funny coincidence: to reach the Sanctuary Fortress from the Temple Grounds you take an elevator which goes down, even though the Sanctuary is stated as the highest location in the game (you can also see this in the world map). In Dark Souls 2, you also take an elevator downwards to reach a higher zone (I think it´s Earthen Peak). Maybe it´s a really obscure homage to Echoes?
 
G

GWX

Member
I reached Sanctuary Fortress last week for the first time, reached the first save point and then didn't came back to it. I guess all the Quadraxis talk I saw in the Trilogy OR scared me :lol I'm returning to it tonight because of this thread!
 
synchronicity

synchronicity

Member
Amentallica said:
http://youtu.be/qqDy8sqKK-c

16:54. The music queuing for the area when Samus enters the bridge. I'll never forget getting up to that part of the game. Never expected the third section of the game to be so damn amazing. From its music (the best), to its atmosphere, to its enemies and final boss, this has to be one of the best maps in the Metroid series. I love Metroid Prime 1 to death, and it is my favorite, but Metroid Prime 2's Sanctuary Fortress has to be the highest of the highs out of all of the games for me.

I wish I could experience it for the first time again. Now I'm sad. :(

What is your favorite section/map in the Metroid series?
Click to expand...

I AM currently experiencing it for the first time, and yes, it is mind-blowing. I can almost not believe how phenomenal this game is. I definitely prefer it to Prime 1, and that was absolutely incredible. Such an amazing franchise. I hope they make more after the trilogy. I wish we got more games of this overall quality.
 
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