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angular graphics
Banned
(02-23-2014, 12:44 PM)
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Originally Posted by FusionCode

3D Realms is still alive?

They fired the development team, but they kept the brand alive.
MrCunningham
Member
(02-23-2014, 01:17 PM)
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Originally Posted by angular graphics

They fired the development team, but they kept the brand alive.

3D realms is nothing more than a licensing holder at this point. Though to be honest, I'm not really sure what licenses they have left. They used to have Prey before it was transferred over to Scott Millers "Radar Group", then the rights was transferred over to Zenimax. I'm just as confused about the Duke Nukem rights, though I would assume that anything that was published under the 3D Realms brand they retained the rights too. Also 3D Realms still owns the rights to some Apogee games, though back then, most of the games that were published (and not developed) by Apogee were retained ownership by the original creators. Commander Keen for example is owned by id Software (now Zenimax).

Originally Posted by Zen

This might be 'we had designs for this on a dirty napkin' so it was actually in development.

They had a lot of Duke games in development behind the scenes, but so many of them never materialized. Duke Nuke: Endangered Species for one, Duke Nukem D-Day was another, and then there was the mysterious "Duke Nukem: Begins" that has been talked about from time to time. . For all we know they had the name for "Mass Destruction" in some early design document that never made it past initial planning stages, and just marked that as "in development".

Originally Posted by Shard

They also gave sunglasses to Duke in Duke Nukem II for Steam.

I hadn't noticed.
jim-jam bongs
most certainly will not be getting forcibly fucked by a gigantic canoe
(02-23-2014, 03:35 PM)
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Gearbox are terrible, but even a stopped clock is right twice a day. If I pay for exclusive use of a toilet then walk in and find shit smeared all over the walls which definitely isn't mine, I'd feel pretty ripped off.
watership
Member
(02-23-2014, 04:01 PM)
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Originally Posted by sniperpon

It's a shame we have the concept of "copyright" at all; let the two companies compete to see who can make the better "Duke" game.

Copywrite still protects the little guy, even when protecting the big guys.
ThreePiMatt
Member
(02-23-2014, 04:02 PM)

Originally Posted by FusionCode

3D Realms is still alive?

So long as George Broussard's lungs still draw breath, 3D Realms will continue to exist.
Nostremitus
Member
(02-23-2014, 04:09 PM)
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Completely right to sue.

If I sold you my car, you wouldn't want me randomly showing up to take it for a spin. That's called theft.
Chacranajxy
I paid good money for this Dynex!
(02-23-2014, 04:13 PM)
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I was ready to come in here and say something along the lines of "Randy Pitchford is an idiot, and he's a lawyer, so why is he doing something so stupid?" But... he's right.

Dammit.


Originally Posted by sniperpon

It's a shame we have the concept of "copyright" at all; let the two companies compete to see who can make the better "Duke" game.

Apart from the fact that this is ridiculous (copyrights really do exist for a valid reason, even if they're sometimes subject to abuse these days), the issue here is trademarks. Copyright would refer to ideas, like the Duke Nukem character, level designs, artwork, etc. Trademark involves the Duke Nukem brand name.
Last edited by Chacranajxy; 02-23-2014 at 04:16 PM.
Takao
Hello friend!
Have you heard the good news about Medabots?!
(02-23-2014, 04:46 PM)
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Does 3D Realms not have the money to settle out of court? If they know they're wrong, why is this even a lawsuit?
WraithBringer
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(02-23-2014, 05:07 PM)
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What I saw when I heard these guys were making a Duke Nukem game = Business opportunity.

What Randy Pitchford saw when he heard these guys were making a Duke Nukem game = OMGWTF $$$$

Gearbox could have let them do it and taken a cut. They make money, everyone profits.

Here gearbox I'd throwing its weight around like it's the big boy in the yard but SEGA could have easily made life VERY difficult for them indeed.
Coxy
Member
(02-23-2014, 05:19 PM)
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it's only ok to steal from codehunters
Forsaken82
(02-23-2014, 05:22 PM)
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Originally Posted by WraithBringer

What I saw when I heard these guys were making a Duke Nukem game = Business opportunity.

What Randy Pitchford saw when he heard these guys were making a Duke Nukem game = OMGWTF $$$$

Gearbox could have let them do it and taken a cut. They make money, everyone profits.

Here gearbox I'd throwing its weight around like it's the big boy in the yard but SEGA could have easily made life VERY difficult for them indeed.

I think you need to go back to school to get an understanding of how situations like this work in the real world.
Shard
XBLAnnoyance
(02-23-2014, 07:15 PM)
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Originally Posted by sniperpon

It's a shame we have the concept of "copyright" at all; let the two companies compete to see who can make the better "Duke" game.

One way or another this is the world we live in.
Sciz
Member
(02-23-2014, 07:30 PM)
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Originally Posted by WraithBringer

Here gearbox I'd throwing its weight around like it's the big boy in the yard but SEGA could have easily made life VERY difficult for them indeed.

Gearbox ultimately delivered the product Sega paid for. Without knowing the details of the contract, we have no idea if it was breached or not.
WraithBringer
Member
(02-23-2014, 07:38 PM)
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Originally Posted by Forsaken82

I think you need to go back to school to get an understanding of how this work in the real world.

Oh meow. You do have claws dont you kitten.

It's a great business opportunity. This project was obviously going to be self published, so no need to get a publisher on board. Social media is one of the best ways to advertise a game to potential customers and if they're making this game in their spare time, development costs are kept to a minimum. Gearbox could take a cut in return for allowing them use of trademarked content. I believe it's called royalty payments.

Using PSN alone, if they pay 30% to Sony on say a 10 title, they split 3.50 between each other. Sell 10,000 and you've made 35,000 which is no small amount of money. Just Add Water did a great presentation where they explained the benefit of digital content.

Collaboration leads to good projects. Hell, lots of indie titles are made with no budget. SquareEnix have stated that they are prepared to licence a lot of their back catalogue for development. So why not Gearbox? Seems highly hypocritical that they fuck SEGA by constantly requesting more funds that went into stuff that wasn't developing Colonial Marines. They fucking out sourced 90% of it and cleaned up the mess when it was done. They're one to talk.

Sure, done companies might not want to let other people handle their IP and issue lots of C&D's like Crapcom but the opportunity is there. Exploring it before shooting them down is the best thing to do and if it doesn't seem like something you want to pursue then you can request they stop then if worse comes to worse, legal action would be the right action. Not the stereotypical American attitude of shoot first ask questions later.

Besides, didn't Randy start at 3D Realms? Why be a douche to the people who gave you a job in the first place?

Originally Posted by Sciz

Gearbox ultimately delivered the product Sega paid for. Without knowing the details of the contract, we have no idea if it was breached or not.

SEGA could have requested a financial audit and found out if their money went towards the funding of BL2 and the Duke Nukem acquisition which it probably did and sue them over breach of contract and misuse of funds. I highly suspect contract was breached. No way it took 5 years and all that funding just to make colonial marines.
Last edited by WraithBringer; 02-23-2014 at 07:42 PM.
animlboogy
Member
(02-23-2014, 07:46 PM)
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Interceptor needs to step away from Duke. Their remake got the go ahead from Gearbox before being axed suddenly. Now theyre caught in legal limbo between Gearbox and zombie 3DR. Time to move on from this IP.
Sciz
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(02-23-2014, 08:05 PM)
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Originally Posted by WraithBringer

SEGA could have requested a financial audit and found out if their money went towards the funding of BL2 and the Duke Nukem acquisition which it probably did and sue them over breach of contract and misuse of funds. I highly suspect contract was breached.

Assuming the contract specified how the money had to be used in the first place. Sega of America was run by monkeys at the time and seems to have been blindly paying money for delivered milestones. I really wouldn't put it past them to have written up language that wasn't ironclad. Maybe they weren't that stupid and it's just taking a while to gather evidence, or Gearbox actually did burn it all on the project and this whole debacle is an even more colossal management disaster than we think. Dunno.

Borderlands 1 sold pretty well in any case, so I've never been clear on where the assumption that Gearbox wasn't self-funding their own projects after that came from.
Shard
XBLAnnoyance
(02-23-2014, 08:55 PM)
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Originally Posted by animlboogy

Interceptor needs to step away from Duke. Their remake got the go ahead from Gearbox before being axed suddenly. Now theyre caught in legal limbo between Gearbox and zombie 3DR. Time to move on from this IP.

It is probably too late for that in the sense of not getting sued.
Last edited by Shard; 02-23-2014 at 08:58 PM.
Mr. Tibbs
Member
(05-16-2015, 11:09 AM)
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2015 update: The case was settled in mediation.


Bonus: Some in-game images of Mass Destruction before it became Bombshell.


Reveal trailer:



Duke IP buy-back:

https://www.scribd.com/doc/264520063...ertainment-ApS
jesu
Member
(05-16-2015, 11:11 AM)
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That's one ugly update.

Who owns the IP now?
JaseC
gave away the keys to the kingdom.
(05-16-2015, 11:17 AM)
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Originally Posted by jesu

That's one ugly update.

Who owns the IP now?

Given Gearbox initiated the lawsuit and it was settled, I'd assume it still owns the IP (for now), plus Gearbox is still listed as the current owner on the USPTO site.
Last edited by JaseC; 05-16-2015 at 12:47 PM.
PaulloDEC
Member
(05-16-2015, 11:20 AM)
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I'm glad it's resolved, whatever that ends up meaning. The worst thing for IP is getting stuck in legal limbo.

As for Duke... well, it's no worse than half a dozen other iterations of the character I could name. Actually kinda glad we're getting a game with this lady instead:



Duke needs a long rest.
professor denim
Member
(05-16-2015, 11:28 AM)
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Duke needs the Machinegames treatment.
Shard
XBLAnnoyance
(05-16-2015, 12:34 PM)
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Originally Posted by jesu

That's one ugly update.

Who owns the IP now?

Given what I read here it appears the 3D Realms is buying it back via what amounts to a convoluted installment plan.
Nikodemos
Member
(05-16-2015, 12:41 PM)
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Originally Posted by Shard

Given what I read here it appears the 3D Realms is buying it back via what amounts to a convoluted installment plan.

So, by extension, Interceptor would eventually own it, right?
JaseC
gave away the keys to the kingdom.
(05-16-2015, 12:49 PM)
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Originally Posted by Nikodemos

So, by extension, Interceptor would eventually own it, right?

Yes.
DaBuddaDa
Member
(05-16-2015, 01:36 PM)
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Nice signature........
Danneee
Member
(05-16-2015, 11:07 PM)
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Originally Posted by professor denim

Duke needs the Machinegames treatment.

You are correct.
Borman
Member
(05-16-2015, 11:10 PM)
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I hope interceptor gets it, since they have early DNF builds.
BlackRainbowFT
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(05-16-2015, 11:15 PM)
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Originally Posted by DaBuddaDa

Nice signature........

That's an electrocardiogram reading.
MigueelDnd
Member
(05-16-2015, 11:18 PM)
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Holy shit this thread is sad. A lot of grey names in the first page.

I'm actually glad this happened, Bombshell looked nice in the gameplay trailer we got back in March.
sn00zer
(05-16-2015, 11:19 PM)
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I dont know how the fuck 3D Realms thought they would get away with this after selling the IP.
MiszMasz
Member
(05-16-2015, 11:22 PM)
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Pretty sure that Dr. Proton new/old image is from Forever's DLC.
Mr. Tibbs
Member
(05-16-2015, 11:25 PM)
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Originally Posted by MiszMasz

Pretty sure that Dr. Proton new/old image is from Forever's DLC.

You're right, but it's part of one image used as an exhibit from the court case.
MiszMasz
Member
(05-16-2015, 11:26 PM)
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Originally Posted by Mr. Tibbs

You're right, but it's part of one image used as an exhibit from the court case.

Ah, i see.
flozuki
Member
(05-16-2015, 11:26 PM)
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Originally Posted by professor denim

Duke needs the Machinegames treatment.

That would be awesome =)
sn00zer
(05-16-2015, 11:27 PM)
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Originally Posted by professor denim

Duke needs the Machinegames treatment.

Sahdow warrior is basically the best Duke game we will ever get.
TheDarkBites
Banned
(05-16-2015, 11:27 PM)
Pitchford is a lying dick and 3D Realms try to get away with things. There is no winner here.
Syph Medwes
sharp knees?
yes please!
(05-16-2015, 11:28 PM)
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Thanks for the update. Obviously there were the financial ramifications but hopefully the lawsuit was initiated because they (gearbox) still intend to do something with the IP
Piston Hyundai
Member
(05-16-2015, 11:28 PM)
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Originally Posted by MigueelDnd

Holy shit this thread is sad. A lot of grey names in the first page.

Saddest part is that it links to Joystiq.
BennyBlanco
aka IMurRIVAL69
(05-16-2015, 11:29 PM)
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Originally Posted by professor denim

Duke needs the Machinegames treatment.

I would play the shit out of that.
Orayn
Member
(05-16-2015, 11:41 PM)
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While 3DRealms is probably doing pretty well right now, it's hard to say if they'd actually have the money to buy back Duke Nukem after all the money Gearbox put into it. This could go either way, but I'd be very happy to see it return to Interceptor.
Mr. Tibbs
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(05-16-2015, 11:44 PM)
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Originally Posted by Syph Medwes

Thanks for the update. Obviously there were the financial ramifications but hopefully the lawsuit was initiated because they (gearbox) still intend to do something with the IP

I would love it if that happened, but I can't see 2K publishing another Duke game. Even though they have an amazing relationship with Gearbox, 2K president Christoph Hartman said publishing DNF was one of his few regrets.

We've had precious few flops. And at least, of the few I can think of - and I can think of a few, sadly - at least one of them was just a misguided decision on my part, which was Duke Nukem.

If they won't publish a Duke game, who would?

Maybe if Interceptor's parent company SDN Invest is willing to shell out millions and millions they could acquire the rights?
Orayn
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(05-16-2015, 11:47 PM)
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Originally Posted by Mr. Tibbs

I would love it if that happened, but I can't see 2K publishing another Duke game. Even though they have an amazing relationship with Gearbox, 2K president Christoph Hartman said publishing DNF was one of his few regrets.



If they won't publish a Duke game, who would?

Maybe if Interceptor's parent company SDN Invest is willing to shell out millions and millions they could acquire the rights?

Couldn't Devolver also pitch in since they've been working pretty closely with Interceptor/SDN lately? I remember Fork Parker saying (regretfully) that they couldn't buy the Blood IP because it was too expensive, but they might consider Duke more worth the investment.
Mr. Tibbs
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(05-16-2015, 11:50 PM)
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Originally Posted by Orayn

Couldn't Devolver also pitch in since they've been working pretty closely with Interceptor/SDN lately? I remember Fork Parker saying (regretfully) that they couldn't buy the Blood IP because it was too expensive, but they might consider Duke more worth the investment.

I really think a publisher like Devolver would be the best home for Duke. If they managed to acquire the series I would be a happy chappy.
Flying Toaster
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(05-17-2015, 12:07 AM)
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Originally Posted by Mr. Tibbs

I really think a publisher like Devolver would be the best home for Duke. If they managed to acquire the series I would be a happy chappy.

It would be cool, but seriously does anyone think Gearbox is going to do the right thing.

Gearbox generally speaking has been all over the place especially on IP's that are not Borderlands.
Nuke Soda
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(05-17-2015, 12:11 AM)
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Originally Posted by neurosisxeno

3D Realms are totally in the wrong, and they had 8 years to make a Duke Nukem game before Gearbox finally bought the rights and shoved their piece of crap out the door. Gearbox is just as shameful for claiming they "care" about Duken Nukem as a property, nobody who cared would have shipped that abortion called Duke Nukem Forever...

But nobody loves Duke more than Randy Pitchford.
KatamariOnTheRocks
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(05-17-2015, 12:13 AM)
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I really hope we eventually get a true return to form with Duke, something closer to a Duke 3d - 2. Hopefully Interceptor get to continue with Duke Reloaded.

I also wanna say I'd be totally down for Devolver Digital to get the rights or to see a Duke game by the Shadow Warrior people.
gabbo
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(05-17-2015, 12:22 AM)
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Originally Posted by Nuke Soda

But nobody loves Duke more than Randy Pitchford.

Right next to his love of Aliens
edit: Depending on where the IP is going, I would just like more Duke games please. A sequel to DNF preferably or just a satirical 'macho' shooter
Shard
XBLAnnoyance
(05-17-2015, 12:27 AM)
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Originally Posted by Orayn

While 3DRealms is probably doing pretty well right now, it's hard to say if they'd actually have the money to buy back Duke Nukem after all the money Gearbox put into it. This could go either way, but I'd be very happy to see it return to Interceptor.

Well, the terms of the buyback are actually laid out in the update.3D Realms is buying back the IP at price they sold it at plus a amount going to Take 2 plus expenses incurred by Gearbox that can't be recouped any other way plus a royalty payment related to 3 AAA Duke games. Also that last paragraph has everything to do with certain situations relating to the royalty payments. Looks like it is going to cost tens of millions of dollars over a protracted length of time basically.
Mr. Tibbs
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(05-17-2015, 12:31 AM)
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Originally Posted by KatamariOnTheRocks

Hopefully Interceptor get to continue with Duke Reloaded.

I don't think you would want that. Was Rise of the Triad an amazing shooter? That game had a budget and a full time team. Reloaded had none of that and was being developed by a less experienced team.

It's worth pointing out that Gearbox was apparently really happy with DNF, at least according to a Triptych team member:

A lot of people played it, Gearbox ran it through their in-house feedback system extensively. Truckloads of gamers brought in over weeks and weeks to play it and give their opinions. A quote I actually heard: "it's testing better than the first Borderlands game!"

Dozens of people way higher up the chain were apparently perfectly happy with it.

Just goes to show that you never know what the fuck.


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