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Mama Robotnik
(06-25-2009, 05:04 AM)
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When Nintendo announced New Super Mario Bros. Wii, I was pleased. New Super Mario Bros. was a fun adventure, and I've never been able to have too much Mario.

I found it interesting that Nintendo would choose to base the new four-player game heavily on the graphical and gameplay style of New Super Mario Bros. My initial thoughts were that the game would have made more of a visual impact during its E3 reveal had it been a brand-new graphical imagining of 2D Mario.

But then I considered the power of nostalgia, the excitement and praise of when GAF first saw Megaman 9. I wondered, how would we have reacted if Nintendo had elected to build New Super Mario Bros. Wii on one of the older Mario styles, rather than the DS approach. And what possibilities would such a choice have given us.

To promote discussion and to help us imagine a different path, I took a screenshot from NSMBWii, and remade it using the gameplay and graphical styles of the previous Mario games. :











Notes
  • I've tried to make the landmass the closest possible approximation, so the level design is Nintendo-design.
  • Peach replaces blue/yellow Toad in all shots, as I wanted to use only sprites from the games with as little modifications as possible. In the SMB1 screenshot, I used bubbles from the water-stages to make the Toad-bubble.
  • Feel free to criticise the quality, they were made in MSPaint using a ton of copy/pasting, and I've never claimed to be an artist.
  • My alternate title for this thread was Tales from GeoNAF.
My thoughts
  • NSMBWii based on the SMB1 style would have been a hardcore, challenging game for the ages, in the vein of Megaman 9. Assuming the simple mechanics and powerups were maintained, it would be an amazing focus of four-players on pure relentless platforming.
  • The SMB2 approach has the most interesting possibilites, I feel. The mechanics and style of this game have been revisted far less than the others, and I'd love to see Nintendo build on this underated gem in the way SMB1's style evolved into SMB3/SMW. Tackling one of SMB2's unique bosses with four players throwing turnips and bombs is a mayhem I could really get into.
  • The SMB3 approach would be tremendously exciting. SMB3 was a game of unexpected possibilities, especially in terms of powerups. To see return the Hammer Suit, Tanooki Suit, and Kuribo's Shoe would be an amazing prospect.
  • The SMW approach looks the prettiest, it is amazing how the game has not aged.
  • Of the four possibilities present, I'd probably elect either Super Mario Bros 2 or 3 as a foundation for a alternate four-player Mario Wii game.
GAFs turn

So I turn the thread over to GAF. If Nintendo had chosen an alternate foundation for NSMBWii, what would you have liked that foundation to be?

And during the E3 conference, if Nintendo unveiled the game using one of these foundations, which one would have sent your internal hype meter into overdrive?
Blizzard
Member
(06-25-2009, 05:06 AM)
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I like the Super Mario World styles. Peach > Daisy >>>>> Pauline.

And I hate the color of the original Mario game(s) with their awful orange/brown/green clashy color scheme. I don't know why so many people love it. T_T
flintstryker

(06-25-2009, 05:07 AM)
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This might sound weird but i actually like the SMB rendition best, there's just a certain charm to it.
Drkirby
Corporate Apologist
(06-25-2009, 05:11 AM)
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I really wouldn't of wanted a classic look. I wouldn't of minded a new look that took more advantage of the Wii, but I do like the current look.
AniHawk
Cranky. Very cranky.
Rather sarcastic to boot.
(06-25-2009, 05:12 AM)
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Though I like the look of SMB3 more than SMW, for a multiplayer game, SMW looks the best.

The hardest thing would be pulling off wall jumps.

It would have been preferable to see cel-shading, but oh well. The game rocks and that's what matters.
Metal B
Member
(06-25-2009, 05:12 AM)
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What about Super Mario 64?
The DS Version has 4 different character: Mario, Luigi, Wario and Yoshi. Just imagine it with online co-op mode and survive "the green demon" multiplayer-mode =)
EmCeeGramr
Santana - who was turned to stone in the battle at the Mexican Nazi laboratory - was recovered by the Speedwagon Foundation a few hours later and taken to America...
(06-25-2009, 05:14 AM)
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you almost had it but then you used hq2xeagleSaicumlord50 filtering on the screens and now i'm too blind to think
bearcatjosh
Member
(06-25-2009, 05:15 AM)
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Certainly would have been cool to go with a classic art style, but I'm excited for the game nonetheless.
ascii42
Member
(06-25-2009, 05:16 AM)
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Why isn't Peach in NSMB? She was the best chararacter in SMB2.
Zzoram
Member
(06-25-2009, 05:17 AM)
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Originally Posted by Metal B

What about Super Mario 64?
The DS Version has 4 different character: Mario, Luigi, Wario and Yoshi. Just imagine it with online co-op mode and survive "the green demon" multiplayer-mode =)

I would've liked NSMB Wii to be 720p but the same art style as the DS. I'm sure the Wii could handle it, too bad it can't output 720p.
MisterHero
Super Member
(06-25-2009, 05:20 AM)
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The closest Nintendo actually came to a sprite-based NSMBWii game was the 4-Player Mario Bros. in the Advance remakes. It used SMB2 All-Stars sprites.

I think it would be the same gameplay even if the graphics were different. Unless they wanted to make lots of sprites (a la Donkey Kong Country/Yoshi's Island), I don't think sprite art in the vein of Classic SMB-World would properly convey the action going on with new gameplay.
ShockingAlberto
Member
(06-25-2009, 05:22 AM)
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I actually kind of like the way it looks now.

It's not as good as a modern, hand-drawn take on 2D Mario would be.

But, looking at those retro artstyles next to it, I think I like how it looks now.
Fantastical
Death Prophet
(06-25-2009, 05:22 AM)
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Originally Posted by ascii42

Why isn't Peach in NSMB? She was the best chararacter in SMB2.

Remember, she could be unlockable!
Neiteio
Member
(06-25-2009, 05:26 AM)
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I'm more concerned about issues like the floaty controls (retained from the DS version, apparently) and the pause whenever anybody gets a powerup or hit by an enemy.

Still, this game's one to get this Christmas. The classic Koopalings are BACK! :)
whitehawk
leeches are the best bait when attempting to land bass
(06-25-2009, 05:35 AM)
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Super Mario World please. I would actually prefer that than the new 3D look.
ShockingAlberto
Member
(06-25-2009, 05:35 AM)
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Originally Posted by Neiteio

I'm more concerned about issues like the floaty controls (retained from the DS version, apparently) and the pause whenever anybody gets a powerup or hit by an enemy.

Still, this game's one to get this Christmas. The classic Koopalings are BACK! :)

I recall the hands-on impressions saying it felt a lot more like Mario World than Mario 1.
TheLegendary
(06-25-2009, 05:48 AM)
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Brashnir
Member
(06-25-2009, 05:59 AM)
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Originally Posted by TheLegendary

Princess Cyclops ftw.
Andrex
ὁ αἴσχιστος παῖς εἶ
(06-25-2009, 06:02 AM)
I'd have gone with Yoshi's Island or Wario Land Shake's graphics, to be honest. But of the ones in the OP, World is definitely the style to go, followed by SMB3.
Toy Soldier
Member
(06-25-2009, 06:04 AM)
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Awesome, I love the comparison shots. I'd be equally excited about any of the 8/16-bit Marios being revisited, especially the US SMB2 - that game and its unique gameplay have been left forgotten for too long.

That said, none of the old styles beat the route Nintendo took. The NSMB Wii style is easily the best-looking and most appropriate for an original game in 2009. Going with old sprites just for nostalgia's sake would have been completely unnecessary for this game, considering the entire concept of NSMB / NSMB Wii is offering a contemporary take on an old formula.
Son of Godzilla
Banned
(06-25-2009, 06:10 AM)

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

The NSMB Wii style is easily the best-looking and most appropriate for an original game in 2009.

There's like a dozen things wrong with that sentance.

Also SMB2 would be beyond the best fit, the vertical levels would be amazing.
polyh3dron
Banned
(06-25-2009, 06:18 AM)
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Originally Posted by Son of Godzilla

There's like a dozen things wrong with that sentance.

There are 2 things wrong with that one. :D
cartman414
Member
(06-25-2009, 06:20 AM)

Originally Posted by Blizzard

I like the Super Mario World styles. Peach > Daisy >>>>> Pauline.

And I hate the color of the original Mario game(s) with their awful orange/brown/green clashy color scheme. I don't know why so many people love it. T_T

Colors aside, Mario 3 had a better aesthetic than World.
GDGF
Soothsayer
(06-25-2009, 06:22 AM)
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I like SMB3 and SMW.

Somebody should do this with Sonic and his shitty friends
Allan Holdsworth
Member
(06-25-2009, 06:25 AM)
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You forgot the SMB All-Stars style, easily the best.
Jiggy
Got lost looking for
a hentai sim forum
(06-25-2009, 06:41 AM)
Suddenly I feel more interested in NSMB Wii. :P

In all seriousness, I didn't understand why I never liked about the NSMB (DS) aesthetic until seeing these pictures side-by-side: it's the complexity and detail. I love abstraction, and even Super Mario World is more fleshed-out than I'd like to see, what with those clouds and mountains. Super Mario Bros. 1 has too much brown, while the others are simply ideal.


As for gameplay, SMB2 isn't my favorite Mario game, but it would have amazing possibilities with multiplayer because of the throwing mechanic, especially if you could pick each other up like in Chip 'n' Dale or Parasol Stars (just as some examples). I think that would actually be coolest just because it's the one Mario game where you can do great things even before getting powerups (and they'd have to add at least one or two of those)--which plays very well since there are potentially four players competing for powers, dying and coming back, and so on.
Deku
Banned
(06-25-2009, 06:47 AM)
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Really hard to imagine 2-D mario looking all plasticy and glossy.

I think 2-D Marios need to be pixel art in some form but that's just my preference.
ntropy
Member
(06-25-2009, 06:50 AM)

Originally Posted by TheLegendary

No tattoos—she's HAWT.
TheChaos
Member
(06-25-2009, 06:59 AM)
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Originally Posted by ascii42

Why isn't Peach in NSMB? She was the best chararacter in SMB2.

My guess is you have to go save her....again.

Super Peach Galaxy would rock, though.
OnPoint
Member
(06-25-2009, 06:59 AM)
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These pictures just show me that Nintendo made the right choice. Maybe if it was art as well-animated as what's in Warioland: Shake It, I might agree, but I'd hate to see the classic styles used like that.
Firestorm
Member
(06-25-2009, 07:06 AM)
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Hate the "2.5D" style and would have loved a cleaner version of SMB1 or SMW personally.
nyprimus2
Member
(06-25-2009, 07:14 AM)
That SMW shot looks hawt.
Kodiak
Banned
(06-25-2009, 07:24 AM)
the "New" aesthetic is fine. Its clean, its mario.

Stop being annoyingly nostalgic, GAF.
SovanJedi
provides useful feedback
(06-25-2009, 07:29 AM)
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While I do love the nostalgia associated with previous iterations and their pixel art (and that Super Mario World one looks great, nasty filters put aside) and I really really did love Mega Man 9, I think I would have found New Super Mario Bros. Wii to be an even cheaper unveil had they reused the old pixel art for the game. It's a little different with Nintendo than it is with Capcom, because Nintendo admittedly have played the nostalgia tune on its old 8-bit and 16-bit Mario renditions to death and they don't have that 'freshly plucked from your childhood' feeling that seeing 8-bit Mega Man running around used to.

New Super Mario Bros. Wii seems to fall under the same problem Animal Crossing: City Folk does, in that all the improvements to the graphics are so subtly done and recreate the original inspiration so well in more detailed polygonal imagery that the style masks over all the actual improvements made to the game. Take a look at what the Wii Animal Crossing has now; all the objects are full 3D (trees and item pickups mainly, which until now have been bitmap billboard images), there's proper specular lighting on the water, the animations are redone and much improved (especially on fish and insects when you show them off after a catch), but because the style is still the same it's hard to appreciate what actual improvements have been made. And I think NSMB Wii, rather unfairly, falls under this same problem too.

But I digress, because this is not the point of the discussion. If they were going to go with a pixel art approach I would have preferred something brand new, or at least based on the more colourful Mario-related platformers, such as Super Princess Peach, Yoshi's Island, or even that piece of art Orioto made with the beautiful painted colours and natural landscapes.

Regardless though, I think NSMB Wii is a good look and I will enjoy it a ton, as I absolutely loved the return to form that the DS game was and with this being a 4-player Four Swords-alike backstabbing romp it will not matter what the graphic style is. Hell, even the 2-player throwaway mode in NSMB was surprisingly fun to play as me and a friend played it quite a lot on our trip to France a few years back.

EDIT: The unveil wasn't ruined by its insistence on using an existing graphic style for a game that people are constantly "umm"ing and "aah"ing over the worth of, it was ruined because of Nintendo's boringly flat and unlively conference (and the fact that we knew about it 24 hours before the conference hit too).
A Black Falcon
Banned
(06-25-2009, 09:02 AM)
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Originally Posted by ascii42

Why isn't Peach in NSMB? She was the best chararacter in SMB2.

Disappointing, I agree. Why the heck are there TWO Toads, and no Princess?

(Oh, and both of the Toads are male. EAD really doesn't seem to like female characters very much...)

Originally Posted by TheChaos

My guess is you have to go save her....again.

Super Peach Galaxy would rock, though.

Super Rosalina Galaxy?

(I like the color green...)


On the subject though, really any of those games would probably be good. NSMB Wii looks fine, and looks like a lot of fun... sure, those various 2d styles would look great too, and the resulting games would probably be just as interesting, but what they've chosen isn't bad either. It looks good and looks like it plays great. 2.5d is a perfectly legitimate choice...
FallenAngelV
Member
(06-25-2009, 12:03 PM)
Given a choice, I'd go for a game in the style of SMB3 All-Stars version.
darkwings
Banned
(06-25-2009, 12:10 PM)

Originally Posted by A Black Falcon

Disappointing, I agree. Why the heck are there TWO Toads, and no Princess?

this has been explained 100 times. Because you will meet princess and the others along in the game as NPCs.
Yixian
Banned
(06-25-2009, 12:30 PM)
How about something original and detailed rather than an upscaled DS game? The production values on this look piss poor.
AndyMoogle
Member
(06-25-2009, 12:36 PM)
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Eew, filters.
panda21
Member
(06-25-2009, 12:38 PM)
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the goggles
Yixian
Banned
(06-25-2009, 12:42 PM)
they do
Azure Dream
Member
(06-25-2009, 01:02 PM)
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nothing.


The thing is that they all need to play the same. I'm sure at least one of the Toads is a placeholder, but whoever replaces it will have to play like Mario or Luigi would. So if we get Peach or Daisy or Wario or whomever, don't expect floating or body slams or enemy tossing that the other characters wouldn't have.

I would have preferred a different look for the same, something a bit more ambitious, but they're trying to get the New SMB crowd from DS to buy the Wii rev, so I guess it makes sense to stick with the same look.

Originally Posted by Metal B

What about Super Mario 64?
The DS Version has 4 different character: Mario, Luigi, Wario and Yoshi.

And then the game crashes every time Yoshi tries to ride on top of himself.

Wait, no, that happened if he stuck out his tongue while jumping into water in the DS version, my mistake. :lol
sixteen-bit
Member
(06-25-2009, 01:04 PM)
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look at all those filters
epmode
Member
(06-25-2009, 01:08 PM)
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Originally Posted by Kodiak

the "New" aesthetic is fine. Its clean, its mario.

It's got all the style of an Excel spreadsheet.
beelzebozo
Jealous Bastard
(06-25-2009, 01:14 PM)
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SUPER MARIO WORLD wins, hands down.

. . . as per usual.
Mr. Wonderful
Member
(06-25-2009, 01:23 PM)
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Originally Posted by epmode

It's got all the style of an Excel spreadsheet.

At least it's better than the DS game...
SpacePirate Ridley
Member
(06-25-2009, 01:24 PM)
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SMW is demonstrates again that is awesome.

Where the return of my feather power up nintendo!!!
Mario in cape is so classy!
DavidDayton
(more a nerd than a geek)
(06-25-2009, 01:58 PM)
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My eyeballs....arrgh.... if we HAVE to have folks banding together to form the Video Game Voters Network, can they work on banning filters from classic games?

I don't quite get why people keep whining about how NSMBW is "just an upscaled DS game." The game is similar (similar art, music, and control), as you'd expect from a sequel, but it's hardly a rehash of the DS game. The controls feel more precise, the wide areas allow for for movement, the cooperative aspect is quite fresh, and the levels (and their gimmicks) are new.
Mama Robotnik
(06-25-2009, 02:26 PM)
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I'm noticing a recurring theme.



Fixed Now?

(The sources I used for the NES copy-and-paste graphics were unfortunately prefiltered, and when shown alongside the SMW image I can understand the displeasure I am reading. It couldn't be helped, and I'm not photoshop-literate enough to remove or reduce their effect. If another GAFfer would like to try though, please feel free.)
Last edited by Mama Robotnik; 06-25-2009 at 03:34 PM.
zoukka
Member
(06-25-2009, 02:35 PM)
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Oh man I don't know why but I like the 8-bit look the most. World-type graphics are beautiful too, but there's just something deeply appealing in those old 8-bit visuals. At least for me.

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