BennyBlanco
aka IMurRIVAL69
I really hope ADS dies soon. It's so lame and overused.
Battlefront opting out of ADS makes me actually want to buy it.
Battlefront opting out of ADS makes me actually want to buy it.
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Obnoxious iron sights aka ADS in games
- Thread starter SaganIsGOAT
- Start date
I'm pretty sure they came out a little after that "it won't have iron sights" thing came out and cleared up that the game has ADS like every other fucker out there, but just not the actual physical "iron" part.
Leyasu
Banned
The BR from halo 5 was great though..
RSB
Banned
Ugh, seeing the Halo franchise devolve like that is just painful. Fuck ADS.
BreezyLimbo
Banned
I was actually watching some Overwatch gameplay yesterday, and there's no ADS in that game(Unless you have a sniper rifle). So theres that to look forward to if you don't want ADS @_@
NullPointer
Member
I always thought the goal was immersion.
By that standard the loss of full vision when aiming down the sights not only imparts some realism, but it becomes another factor to consider when weighing the pros and cons of that weapon versus others or when deciding between hip-firing or aiming to take your shots. Don't see anything obnoxious about it.
I hate ADS. I hate how one game had it, and then every game needed to have it. I hate the folks who couldn't play games without it. It's not realism that every weapon magically goes in the middle of your field of view every time you aim.
In Halo, we actually went from a more futuristic look at weapon aiming, with your advanced helmet doing reticle tracking for you. Why awkwardly look through sights of a weapon when you can just point and shoot and know it'll land where the reticle is. This was backed by a lore perspective. But no, people needed the loss of vision, going against lore, so that for some reason, Spartans who could see clearly before, now need giant scopes and sights blocking most of their field of view.
I'm guessing eventually this trend will die when VR comes out and people see the need for clear vision, easy lines of sight and the ability to see more on screen than a static image of a weapon.
Then the kids will say that's not COD, then his friend says, why are you playing Halo, then he replies, yeah let's play COD.
I hope Halo 5 proves me wrong but Mocrosoft focus test to a fault.
joeygreco1985
Member
I've gotta say, switching back to CS:GO, a game without sights, is kind of jarring
Leyasu
Banned
Having ADS will never make halo a cod clone... "The kids" (the only people who like cod according to many people on here) like the quick TTK more than ADS I would wager.
SaganIsGOAT
Junior Member
Halo 5 not punishing hip fire but including ADS for those who like it is by far the best solution I've seen.
This is exactly why I actually prefer ADs. It's more immersive to me and yes, I like that it makes it a factor when picking guns.
RSB
Banned
There's an even better solution. Make ADS completely cosmetic and include a classic scope option. If you like the elegance of the classic zoom, you use classic scopes, if you prefer having half your screen obstructed when you zoom, you use ADS. Everybody wins.
Stormblessed
Member
Killzone 2 was my favorite.
You can see what you're shooting at!
The default ISA rifle in Killzone 2 has pretty absurd accuracy when you're using the sights, too.
I think this argument would be more compelling if the decision - to use the sights or not - was a meaningful one. I find it usually isn't. Modern games really want you to use them, so they reduce HP values and add varying levels of auto-aim to the sights to discourage playing any other way. But it's less a problem intrinsic to the mechanic and more with developers latching onto trends they don't really grasp.
Immersion is an emergent property in games that are designed gameplay-first that arises out of a system of mechanics that is, in and of itself, engrossing enough to the player that focusing on playing the game well occupies the part of the mind that deals with where you feel that you 'are', regardless of any attempts at realism or verisimilitude.
When "immersion" becomes the goal, in and of itself, that's putting the cart before the horse, and it results in games that are only immersive, and nothing else. It's like giving the promotion to the guy who is best at climbing the company ladder instead of the guy who is actually best at doing the actual job. It degrades the actual gameplay, and completely and utterly falls apart the instant that you get a player who sees through the shoddy design.
SaganIsGOAT
Junior Member
NullPointer
Member
I was thinking more along the lines of the initial transition to first person games. I thought it was more of a wow factor that put that player directly into a 3D space (the new hotness) more than it was about offering up new mechanics. First person also has the benefit (or drawback for some with GTA V) of making things more personal since it *is* the player rather than the player controlling an avatar in the game world like some kind of occupying spirit.
That's a good point. Almost all kills in e.g. CoD are through the sights. I still think it's an awesome design, but it could definitely be implemented better or more creatively at this point.
CountAntonius
Member
I had to screenshot this in ARMA 2 because it was so ridiculous. Not technically ADS but wtf.
Caayn
Member
That next-gen look&feel and chasing all possible crowds out there though, that must be worth something for sure.
I hate ADS. I hate how one game had it, and then every game needed to have it. I hate the folks who couldn't play games without it. It's not realism that every weapon magically goes in the middle of your field of view every time you aim.
In Halo, we actually went from a more futuristic look at weapon aiming, with your advanced helmet doing reticle tracking for you. Why awkwardly look through sights of a weapon when you can just point and shoot and know it'll land where the reticle is. This was backed by a lore perspective. But no, people needed the loss of vision, going against lore, so that for some reason, Spartans who could see clearly before, now need giant scopes and sights blocking most of their field of view.
I'm guessing eventually this trend will die when VR comes out and people see the need for clear vision, easy lines of sight and the ability to see more on screen than a static image of a weapon.
BrainZEROX
Member
I don't know. I think the reduced view in ADS is to be expected. IRL you'd even probably close an eye while ADS so your view would be even more reduced. In that regard, I think ADS is most usually pretty well done but it's the new cool thing to hate so...
If I was a 7'4" supersoldier almost 600 years in the future and I had a helmet that not only identified enemies, but helped me keep track of how much ammo I had left, and even had a digital reticle to show exactly where my weapon was aimed, I wouldn't close my eyes or bring gun to my face.
Again, game play should always trump realism. Is it really realistic bringing a gun scope right up to the bridge of your nose, so the iron sight is between the eyes? No. Why does realism/immersion matter there but not when you're being shot and you get random red jelly over the screen and bam, you're back to full health after 10 shots.
Edit: you're probably not looking at Halo, so I apologize for going on a rant, but there is a lot to criticize about ADS that has happened for almost a decade. It's not new to hate on it. There are somewhat valid reasons.
Sure, massive initial sales. Only time will tell whether Halo 5 goes down the same route as Halo Reach and Halo 4, which I have a feeling it might, especially being launched so close to Battlefront. Maybe it'll be the fastest selling Halo to start a new generation, maybe it'll maintain a solid player base, or maybe people have just moved on and it'll drop.
Ragnarok Flames
Banned
I hate ADS. I hate how one game had it, and then every game needed to have it. I hate the folks who couldn't play games without it. It's not realism that every weapon magically goes in the middle of your field of view every time you aim.
In Halo, we actually went from a more futuristic look at weapon aiming, with your advanced helmet doing reticle tracking for you. Why awkwardly look through sights of a weapon when you can just point and shoot and know it'll land where the reticle is. This was backed by a lore perspective. But no, people needed the loss of vision, going against lore, so that for some reason, Spartans who could see clearly before, now need giant scopes and sights blocking most of their field of view.
I'm guessing eventually this trend will die when VR comes out and people see the need for clear vision, easy lines of sight and the ability to see more on screen than a static image of a weapon.
Gotta chase that modern money. Halo HAS to evolve /s.
Halo was unique in a sea of garbage.
Of course it is.
Exactly but I guess 343 live in hope thinking kids will give it a shot because it looks similar and what they're comfortable with then expect the rest of the game play pulls them over.
Hoya Destroyer
Member
I remember hating the iron sights for the M60 in CoD4/MW1.
I got the gold skin for that gun and really wanted to like it, but it was to uncomfortable to use. I stuck with the RPD.
I got the gold skin for that gun and really wanted to like it, but it was to uncomfortable to use. I stuck with the RPD.
If you look at the actual gameplay implications of adding zoom to autos I think it makes a lot of sense.
Take the AR. In previous games it was a garbage weapon which was dropped by anyone who could aim at the first opportunity (barring CE which is a bit of a special case). The reason for this was that it was essentially useless beyond very close range. It could barely point people out of scope at mid range, let alone be any form of threat.
Adding scope to the AR means that it becomes a weapon which is actually viable. It can ping people out of scope and you can defend yourself against a BR at mid range.
I think this is a good thing because it means more weapon diversity, which I think is something Halo sorely lacks in.
CheezyMac88
Member
Advanced Warfare HBRA3
Black_Stride
do not tempt fate do not contrain Wonder Woman's thighs do not do not
This is just some sad shit.
I really hope they listened to the criticisms from the Beta and toned it down.
Your username is visiblemode yet you want to get rid of visibility in your games?
Killzone 2 was my favorite.
You can see what you're shooting at!
The holographic takes up so much of the screen i find it funny thats you favrite way to ADS.
Outside the sqircle the screen is pretty much useless.
Superior Coyote from BF4:
i would like to add that destiny does this stuff on purpose. i don't have a link but i read a developer interview where they said that the field of view is designed so that, if you sit a certain distance from the screen, the 2/3rd of the screen in the middle should be your focal point and the 1/6th on each side is your peripheral vision. the reticle is also not in the middle of the screen, its a little lower. this combined with the FOV and 1/6th of space at the top of the screens is also meant to be peripheral vision. notice that the red outlines when you are being shot at appear in the space where the peripheral vision is.
i personally really like ADS. in destiny, i like how some guns play better with or without it depending on the gun, so you can play it like a cover based shooter or an arena shooter and still do great assuming you got the right gun for your particular playstyle
edit, i found the interview
/cdn0.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/3474346/destiny_peripheral.0.jpg)
http://www.polygon.com/2015/3/5/8158001/destiny-animation-motion-sickness
i personally really like ADS. in destiny, i like how some guns play better with or without it depending on the gun, so you can play it like a cover based shooter or an arena shooter and still do great assuming you got the right gun for your particular playstyle
edit, i found the interview
http://www.polygon.com/2015/3/5/8158001/destiny-animation-motion-sickness
The real shit part about ADS isn't screen real estate. It's that it heavily hampers movement in FPS games, drastically reducing the skill ceiling. Any time you have to basically become stuck in quicksand to get a kill, you become a much much easier target. That's fine and dandy for just about any pseudo-simulation like BF or Red Orchestra, but plz keep it out of FPS, and especially competitive FPS.
i would like to add that destiny does this stuff on purpose. i don't have a link but i read a developer interview where they said that the field of view is designed so that, if you sit a certain distance from the screen, the 2/3rd of the screen in the middle should be your focal point and the 1/6th on each side is your peripheral vision. the reticle is also not in the middle of the screen, its a little lower. this combined with the FOV and 1/6th of space at the top of the screens is also meant to be peripheral vision. notice that the red outlines when you are being shot at appear in the space where the peripheral vision is.
i personally really like ADS. in destiny, i like how some guns play better with or without it depending on the gun, so you can play it like a cover based shooter or an arena shooter and still do great assuming you got the right gun for your particular playstyle
edit, i found the interview
http://www.polygon.com/2015/3/5/8158001/destiny-animation-motion-sickness
Personally I think Destiny would be far better if you could shoot accurately whilst moving and in the air.
It has these movement options like double jump and glide etc. but you can't use your gun whilst performing them. It's by far my biggest issue with the core gameplay and it really hinders my enjoyment of the crucible.
Advanced Warfare HBRA3
Came in to post this...the Insanity would be God Tier (probably is anyway) if you could put a red dot on the bitch...
grandwizard
Member
This. ADS is one of the biggest steps back the genre has taken, and is used to slow the game down to cap the skill ceiling more and make the games more playable on gamepad. It also can be used to make the snap-to autoaim less obvious (quickscoping). The fact it's so ingrained into so many people that they are forced to change mega-franchises like Halo just to accommodate them is awful, even if only for diversity's sake.
Looking forward to Overwatch.
This. I like ADS. What I don't like though is when weapons are totally unusable without ADS.
I like that in KF 1/2 I can fire perfectly well without going into ADS (which is better to keep track of what's happening on screen) but if I need the extra accuracy to score that important headshot I can still use it. What's even better is that you can completely remove the crosshair from games with ADS without much of an issue: when you are hip-firing estimating where the centre of the screen is at is good enough, and when you need to actually be really precise you use the ADS.
RSB
Banned
Yep, those accuracy penalties are awful, I don't know why Bungie decided to sabotage their own game with that shit. Destiny would play much better without them. Going back to Halo CE or Halo 3 after playing Destiny feels so liberating (no ADS, no accuracy penalties, etc)
You're in luck, they just added a perk that gives you increased accuracy while you're in the air.
Mineshaft_Gap
4077th
CS:GO is the greatest of all time. No ADS bullshit there.
Well yeah, the game needs some sort of zoom to be playable. Battlefront games aren't arena shooters.
Solid Samus
Banned
ArmA shouldn't even count toward this thread because your head has independent freedom of movement whenever you're using anything besides a long range scope. I wish every FPS had freelook like ArmA's, or at least games like Battlefield, Red Orchestra, Verdun, Insurgency, etc. Makes it super easy to scan your area while maintaining forward movement.
PerezDeCorcho
Member
Nailed it. I always thought the simulated reticles in the Spartan HUDs were unique. I hate how Halo is losing such a distinguishing feature.
In Halo, we actually went from a more futuristic look at weapon aiming, with your advanced helmet doing reticle tracking for you. Why awkwardly look through sights of a weapon when you can just point and shoot and know it'll land where the reticle is. This was backed by a lore perspective. But no, people needed the loss of vision, going against lore, so that for some reason, Spartans who could see clearly before, now need giant scopes and sights blocking most of their field of view.
TheRedSnifit
Member
I hate ADS. I hate how one game had it, and then every game needed to have it. I hate the folks who couldn't play games without it. It's not realism that every weapon magically goes in the middle of your field of view every time you aim.
In Halo, we actually went from a more futuristic look at weapon aiming, with your advanced helmet doing reticle tracking for you. Why awkwardly look through sights of a weapon when you can just point and shoot and know it'll land where the reticle is. This was backed by a lore perspective. But no, people needed the loss of vision, going against lore, so that for some reason, Spartans who could see clearly before, now need giant scopes and sights blocking most of their field of view.
I'm guessing eventually this trend will die when VR comes out and people see the need for clear vision, easy lines of sight and the ability to see more on screen than a static image of a weapon.
I'll be honest, I'd be more concerned about the direction Halo is going if the gameplay wasn't already slow as fuck.
Crimsonclaw111
Member
It's especially bad in games where you're stuck without any sort of FOV slider or options.
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