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"Marvel Money" about to actually mean something: Feige restructures Marvel Studios

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O

OldRoutes

Member
odiin said:
How badly must Ike and the story group fucked over Civil War for it to come to this?
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I think the problem about this thread and this kind of information on the movie industry is people believe it's about short term changes.

This is probably something that has been going on for years. It has probably no direct impact of any movies, too ; maybe it just made it MORE difficult to do stuff like casting and budgets, as well as narrative. But to say that it will affect the next Marvel film is a far fetched idea.
 
F

Freedom = $1.05

Banned
OldRoutes said:
I think the problem about this thread and this kind of information on the movie industry is people believe it's about short term changes.

This is probably something that has been going on for years. It has probably no direct impact of any movies, too ; maybe it just made it MORE difficult to do stuff like casting and budgets, as well as narrative. But to say that it will affect the next Marvel film is a far fetched idea.
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they literally spell out how this committee helped push edgar wright off of ant man

how can you say that with a straight face

and if you dont think Avengers 2 had the heavy hand of this committee then i have a bridge to sell you in NY
 
T

TheKaeptain

Banned
Here's the thing. We can't really say if any this is going to be good or bad. Film and TV can be ruined more from not having anyone say "No" than other art forms. Look at the prequels. Sometimes you need the cheap as fuck producer to tell the creative guy they can't do something.
 
B

Bobby Roberts

Banned
So, the creative committee, a committee largely staffed by comics-industry professionals, gave bad storytelling advice and frequently gave that bad advice late.

Surprise level = 0.
 
T

Toxi

Banned
BigDes said:
Girls don't buy toys is actually a fairly common thing to hear from tv/toy makers. It's why a lot of cartoons get axed or the female characters in the cartoons dont get toys made.
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The most hilarious example of this was when the Avatar the Last airbender action figures didn't include a single female character. Fucking Jet got an action figure over Katara.

Predictably, they bombed.
 
F

Foggy

Member
TheKaeptain said:
Here's the thing. We can't really say if any this is going to be good or bad. Film and TV can be ruined more from not having anyone say "No" than other art forms. Look at the prequels. Sometimes you need the cheap as fuck producer to tell the creative guy they can't do something.
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Yep, arbitrary restrictions can be a boon or a death knell depending on the circumstances. Which is to say many other factors are at play and this could have unintended consequences. Just gotta wait and see how things shake out.
 
F

Freedom = $1.05

Banned
TheKaeptain said:
Here's the thing. We can't really say if any this is going to be good or bad. Film and TV can be ruined more from not having anyone say "No" than other art forms. Look at the prequels. Sometimes you need the cheap as fuck producer to tell the creative guy they can't do something.
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this isn't a cheap producer issue. or a creative who has spun out of control issue

This is a too many cooks in the kitchen issue.

Feige got rid of a bunch of cooks so the hope is that there is less BS in future marvel films. Avengers felt like a movie-by-committee and it kinda sucked thanks to that. And while ant man was alright, we were robbed of an edgar wright film thanks to this.
 
A

anaron

Member
BobbyRoberts said:
So, the creative committee, a committee largely staffed by comics-industry professionals, gave bad storytelling advice and frequently gave that bad advice late.

Surprise level = 0.
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yup.

very happy to see it basically confirmed that Ike and certain bean counters were the root of so many underlining problems. I imagine everyone involved like the cast and crews are going to actively enjoy working under marvel now
 
G

guek

Banned
Alan Fine was likely just a mouthpiece for Perlmutter. Joe Quesada is a pretty good artist but his work as marvel EIC was...bleh. Hit or miss. I'd be willing to bet Bendis had pretty good notes. I'm not too familiar with Dan Buckley.

Something to keep in mind though is that they said these are just 4 of an unknown number of creative comittee members. How their notes were implemented are also a mystery. Were they making strict rules? Did they all have to agree? How many voices were a part of this comittee? Who knows.
 
I

Ithil

Member
richiek said:
http://birthmoviesdeath.com/2015/09/02/the-marvel-creative-committee-is-over

According to Devin Faraci and El Mayimbe, the Marvel Studios shakeup also includes the breakup of the Marvel Creative Committee.



So basically Ike and the Marvel braintrust, not Feige drove Wright off Ant-Man? Interesting if true.

EDIT: It also doesn't surprise me that Ike would be one vetoing Black Widow toys.
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Given this Phase 3 is meant to revolve around a lot of new characters and settings, probably the right time to get this shakeup at the top.
 
S

Shaanyboi

Banned
OldRoutes said:
I think the problem about this thread and this kind of information on the movie industry is people believe it's about short term changes.

This is probably something that has been going on for years. It has probably no direct impact of any movies, too ; maybe it just made it MORE difficult to do stuff like casting and budgets, as well as narrative. But to say that it will affect the next Marvel film is a far fetched idea.
Click to expand...

AoU was heavily impacted by notes (likely from this same creative committee). Edgar Wright leaving is apparently the result of changes these guys made. They could also affect Civil War's editing/reshoots, not to mention everything else coming afterwards.

It has a very direct impact on the movies.
 
G

George Oscar Bluth II

Banned
Committee dissolved?
3MB4fFh.gif
 
N

NastyBook

Member
Schweinehund said:
This is what he had to say




Do audiences really hate the idea of magic? I'd hate to see Shazam be science instead of magic.
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Yeah, that doesn't sound good at all. I still want to see it, but that does curb my enthusiasm a little.

I doubt Shazam will take a similar direction.
birthday-suit said:
Man that show sucked so bad I couldn't make it through the first episode. Acting was TERRIBLE. And plot was hard to follow.
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I never watched the show once I saw that it didn't look to be faithful to the source material. Friends confirmed it when they watched it and had no idea who "Super Sperm" was.
 
S

Schweinehund

Member
The committee breaking up seems like the way bigger part of the news. Curious if the lack of growth from AoU's box office returns spurred Disney to act on Feige's requests. I don't know what to make of it, I guess we'll find out when we see who is going to direct Thor & Black Panther.
 
R

richiek

steals Justin Bieber DVDs
More Marvel Studios fallout:

http://www.bleedingcool.com/2015/09...d-a-failure-at-disney-and-what-happened-next/

The split between Marvel CEO Isaac Perlmutter and Marvel Studios President Kevin Feige has seen the film side of Marvel Studios moved away from Perlmutter’s purview. But what triggered it?

I understand from a Disney sources that, though the two have been at loggerheads for a while, it came to a head over one project, Avengers: Age Of Ultron.

Because, although the film made a lot of money and got okay reviews, it didn’t make enough money. Or get as good reviews as the first. People, basically, didn’t go back for seconds.

And as a result, at Disney, it has been dubbed a failure. Which enabled Kevin Feige to use it leverage to push out Isaac Perlmutter, without whom there wouldn’t even be a Marvel Studios. And forced the disbanding of the Marvel Creative Committee a few months ago.
Click to expand...
 
F

Freedom = $1.05

Banned
Again, Ultron reeked of tons of notes and an immense amount of meddling so it makes sense that it was the straw that broke the camel's back. And Ant-man, too.

What a bummer. Wonder if they could get Wright back on board in the future, whether it be for Ant Man or anything else
 
A

Abounder

Banned
joss-whedon-cornetto.jpg
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This pic always rubbed me the wrong way, like there was a ton of bullshit meddling going on with the MCU...lo and behold there was, hopefully Feige gets to reign. And with Sony Pictures now involved it's going to be a trainwreck without proper leadership
 
O

odiin

My Apartment, or the 120 Screenings of Salo
Someone needs to make a Marvel Biopic Universe with this story and the making of Fantfourstic as its first two entries.
 
R

richiek

steals Justin Bieber DVDs
Cpt.Underpants said:
Curious as to how and why is Perlmutter has to do with this apart from being really thrifty
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Ike and the Creative Committee at Marvel made numerous creative decisions for the films, which resulted in them butting heads with the filmmakers, which is cited as one of the reasons Edgar Wright left Ant-Man. Joss Whedon also mentioned coming into conflict with Marvel when it came to including certain scenes he wanted in Age of Ultron, and he was pretty burned out when he finished.
 
G

Gambit

Member
Abounder said:
This pic always rubbed me the wrong way, like there was a ton of bullshit meddling going on with the MCU...lo and behold there was, hopefully Feige gets to reign. And with Sony Pictures now involved it's going to be a trainwreck without proper leadership
Click to expand...

Undoubtedly all the meddling is also the reason for Whedon not returning. I think the stress was only the secondary reason.
 
B

Bobby Roberts

Banned
To clarify:

That story group that Perlmutter had in place and was giving notes and helping make decisions was likely responsible for a lot of the creative direction you guys DID like about Marvel.

If you look back in your post history, and you find there are posts of yours praising Marvel and the Marvel Plan and the way Marvel built their cinematic universe and continuity - you're by default praising their work.

Its only now that there's a power struggle in the company that we finally figure out who at Marvel was responsible for some of those calls. When they were just anonymous "Marvel people" we had no problem giving them credit. But now that Feige won, all these guys are chumps who deserve to get tossed out on their ass for getting in the way of the man's forward progression.

And maybe they were - especially considering how Ultron shook out and why Ant-Man went the way it did. But still, a large part of why the movies we do like turned out the way they did can be attributed to the same people whose exit we're now celebrating.
 
F

Freedom = $1.05

Banned
BobbyRoberts said:
To clarify:

That story group that Perlmutter had in place and was giving notes and helping make decisions was likely responsible for a lot of the creative direction you guys DID like about Marvel.

If you look back in your post history, and you find there are posts of yours praising Marvel and the Marvel Plan and the way Marvel built their cinematic universe and continuity - you're by default praising their work.

Its only now that there's a power struggle in the company that we finally figure out who at Marvel was responsible for some of those calls. When they were just anonymous "Marvel people" we had no problem giving them credit. But now that Feige won, all these guys are chumps who deserve to get tossed out on their ass for getting in the way of the man's forward progression.

And maybe they were - especially considering how Ultron shook out and why Ant-Man went the way it did. But still, a large part of why the movies we do like turned out the way they did can be attributed to the same people whose exit we're now celebrating.
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There's been issues with Marvel meddling for a long time though, going all the way back to Iron Man 2. The thing is that people were okay with it if the results were decent, like Avengers 1 and GOTG for example.

It's when there's a trend of it making things worse that people are now looking for answers. Ultron and Ant man both seemed to be full of issues regarding creative and the committee. while both films were okay, okay wasn't going to cut it anymore because expectations aren't where they were before.

I still remember the NPR interview with Favreau early in IM2's production where he mentioned that Tony's drinking was going to be an issue in that film. When that got marvel'd out of the film and that film kinda stunk i was ready to get the notes-makers out of the building then
 
B

Bobby Roberts

Banned
Freedom = $1.05 said:
There's been issues with Marvel meddling for a long time though, going all the way back to Iron Man 2.
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No doubt! I'm just trying to address the sort of narrative-building I'm already seeing going on regarding the dissolution of this story group. Perlmutter getting in the way is a thing we've always known about. But people are being really quick to just completely dismiss this story group getting disbanded as a 100% great thing, as if that story group wasn't a large reason that the studio's been as successful as they have (and story groups are being built at other studios as they move forward with their own versions of Marvel's playbook).

This isn't an all-the-way good or all-the-way bad scenario here, and I just wanted to speedbump the transformation of this narrative into the undisputed crowning of Kevin Feige for a sec.
 
F

Freedom = $1.05

Banned
BobbyRoberts said:
No doubt! I'm just trying to address the sort of narrative-building I'm already seeing going on regarding the dissolution of this story group. Perlmutter getting in the way is a thing we've always known about. But people are being really quick to just completely dismiss this story group getting disbanded as a 100% great thing, as if that story group wasn't a large reason that the studio's been as successful as they have (and story groups are being built at other studios as they move forward with their own versions of Marvel's playbook).

This isn't an all-the-way good or all-the-way bad scenario here, and I just wanted to speedbump the transformation of this narrative into the undisputed crowning of Kevin Feige for a sec.
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yeah, i agree. But we can only play the result at the moment and it seems that Feige convinced the powers-that-be that the committee was more of a hindrance than a help any longer. And having seen the result of their involvement in the last two films, it's hard not to hope that they were the main issue, whether there's truth to that or not.
 
B

Bobby Roberts

Banned
Yeah. And I think there's absolutely some truth to it - it's hard to look at Whedon all throughout the making (and the marketing) of Ultron and not see evidence of that truth. And Ant-Man kinda speaks for itself.

Honestly, it seems less like they're disbanding the story group as they are re-staffing it. Which might not be a bad idea, honestly. Writers rooms on TV change up fairly frequently. But usually it's the showrunner in charge. It appears that at Marvel, what's been happening is the showrunner (Feige) hasn't been all the way in control of his writers room, and the guy who was (Perlmutter) was increasingly tripping his movies up.
 
G

guek

Banned
Oh Bobby, your war on the evils of narratives always makes me chuckle.

I don't always agree with you but I do in this case. Despite the committee likely being responsible for some of Marvel's recent sins, we should wait to see how this actually impacts the quality of mcu movies.
 
B

Bobby Roberts

Banned
guek said:
Oh Bobby, your war on the evils of narratives always makes me chuckle.
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Not all narratives are eeeeeeevil. But I do think calling them out does help even 'em out and make the assessments contained within a little more honest (or clearly dishonest)

Basically, once you can identify the artificiality inherent in the story being told, you can depower the bullshit a little and that usually helps discussion, because nobody's hanging on to shit solely because it makes them feel good to believe it.
 
A

Anth0ny

Member
And as a result, at Disney, it has been dubbed a failure.
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disney is neogaf confirmed






This is all good news. It kinda amazes me that they've been able to build this beloved, successful cinematic universe even with all this supposed bullshit behind the scenes. For me, it's hard to believe that things will get even better from here. Phase 2 was fucking great.
 
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