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Kotaku: Dark Souls 3's anti-cheating mechanism resulting in false positive bans

M

MUnited83

For you.
SoulUnison said:
I just told you you could read through the Dark Souls III OTs, and there's also a convenient link in the OP of this thread to a Steam Community thread on this specific issue that's 112 pages long, as of my typing this.

It's not my job to be your personal information aggregate, and your ignorance of something or unwillingness to be informed about it isn't the same as it not existing.

Namco-Bandai also officially recognizes it's something that's happening.



Though they're off the mark claiming that the "false flags" don't actually serve to restrict players.
Click to expand...

Don't worry, I already read the OTs and that steam community thread. Guess what, it quite literally doesn't tell anything about encountering cheaters in the game, which is what the guy you initially quoted was talking about and you tried to call him out on it.

So no, Dark Souls III has no "massive cheating problem". It has a "massive bug".
 
F

funkystudent

Member
Might as well ask. Is Dark Souls 1 less hacker filled since the move to Steamworks?

Some bad stuff was going down back when it was GFWL. Thank god for DSFix's backup save feature because I remember I had my levels stolen once by a invader.
 
R

RK9039

Member
I haven't come across any yet. I have been hearing about people getting banned though, some cheat detection thing they have seems to be working but legit players are getting soft banned also.
 
R

roadrunn3r

Member
SoulUnison said:
It actually has both and being petty and overly semantic isn't going to change that.
Click to expand...

So far in this thread you are the only one who sees a massive cheating problem in the game. Either you are extremely unlucky, like struck by lightning twice unlucky to encounter that many cheaters or you aren't telling the truth, it's that simple.
 
M

MUnited83

For you.
SoulUnison said:
It actually has both and being petty and overly semantic isn't going to change that.
Click to expand...

It doesn't have both unless you think running ubti a cheater once in hundreds of different interactions is "massive".

roadrunn3r said:
So far in this thread you are the only one who sees a massive cheating problem in the game. Either you are extremely unlucky, like struck by lightning twice unlucky to encounter that many cheaters or you aren't telling the truth, it's that simple.
Click to expand...
Yep, this.
 
SoulUnison

SoulUnison

Banned
BernardoOne said:
It doesn't have both unless you think running ubti a cheater once in hundreds of different interactions is "massive".
Click to expand...

If the company that publishes the game has to release an official statement advising players how to avoid being banned for unintentionally interacting with cheating players, I think it's fair to say it's become a reasonably "massive" problem. I think being unable to play a game the way it was designed for fear of losing progress and/or the ability to play with the general population counts as an extremely considerable issue, and claiming anything else is blind defensiveness.

This game isn't your firstborn child - it's a bundle of lines of coding.

roadrunn3r said:
So far in this thread you are the only one who sees a massive cheating problem in the game. Either you are extremely unlucky, like struck by lightning twice unlucky to encounter that many cheaters or you aren't telling the truth, it's that simple.
Click to expand...

Oh, I haven't personally encountered a single cheater, but I also know that there's an entire world that exists outside me and my experiences. I doubt that all these people across many different internet forums, news sites and platforms are all lying for some ill-defined gain, and if that were the case Namco-Bandai wouldn't take the time to repeatedly and specifically address and apologize for it.

If that's what you honestly believe, it's half conspiracy theory and half persecution complex, and I refuse to respect that opinion.
 
L

Lumination

'enry 'ollins
It seems like (and it may be too late for this) that the game has to do a gear/stat check to make sure all of your values are legal before even letting you online. Unless you can edit your values while being connected to others?

If you're going to ban cheaters, you HAVE to ban these hacked items that can move across players. Otherwise, a cheater would just have to trade himself from a different account and be safe. Since you only have one save (nothing wrong with that), having Steam Cloud back up your one save file doesn't really seem like it would help.
 
M

MUnited83

For you.
SoulUnison said:
If the company that publishes the game has to release an official statement advising players how to avoid being banned for unintentionally interacting with cheating players, I think it's fair to say it's become a reasonably "massive" problem. I think being unable to play a game the way it was designed for fear of losing progress and/or the ability to play with the general population counts as an extremely considerable issue, and claiming anything else is blind defensiveness.

This game isn't your firstborn child - it's a bundle of lines of coding.



Oh, I haven't personally encountered a single cheater, but I also know that there's an entire world that exists outside me and my experiences.
Click to expand...

You mean the very rare use of the dropping items system, in which the dropping of hacked items is even more rare. Oh yeah, sounds hella "massive" indeed.

GavinGT said:
Why do you guys insist on reading "massive" as "widespread"?
Click to expand...

Might be because of the whole meaning of the word "massive", ya know? As in, something that it's so big you will likely run into it?
 
SoulUnison

SoulUnison

Banned
BernardoOne said:
You mean the very rare use of the dropping items system, in which the dropping of hacked items is even more rare. Oh yeah, sounds hella "massive" indeed.
Click to expand...

That's not the only issue on the table here, but you seem to think that a glitch of that caliber, where cheaters can enter the games of others and maliciously destroy much of their progress, if not their entire save file, or even up to their basic ability to play the game with the "non-cheating" population isn't a "massive" issue?

That's just head-in-the-sand.

People don't even need to pick up the dropped hacked items for their game to be in jeopardy. It's enough for the game to autosave while an item is simply "present' somewhere in the world for this whole string of issues to be triggered. You could quit the game without every actually seeing the invader or any items he's spawned and still be graced by the softban.

So yes, there is both a "massive bug" problem, AND a "massive cheating" problem, where "massive" means "serious," "significant," or "worthy of attention."

You're trying to argue that these things are ok because it might be unlikely that an individual run into them, but the correct stance is that it's unacceptable that it could occur to even a single person. As long as there's a single player out there who paid $60 for a game and is unable to use basic functionality of the product, it's a "massive" problem.
 
G

GavinGT

Banned
BernardoOne said:
Might be because of the whole meaning of the word "massive", ya know? As in, something that it's so big you will likely run into it?
Click to expand...

If a website has a huge security flaw that could lead to users' information getting leaked out (but hasn't yet), I'd call that a massive security problem. A massive problem could simply be one that has far-reaching implications for those who are affected by it.
 
H

hydrophilic attack

Member
Lots of people seem really defensive and upset that this is reported. Why? Isn't it good that this is getting attention? Might push From into fixing it, making your game better in the future
 
M

MUnited83

For you.
GavinGT said:
If a website has a huge security flaw that could lead to everyone's information getting leaked out (but hasn't yet), I'd call that a massive security problem. For the third time, massive is not the same as widespread.
Click to expand...

Then call it a "massive bug" or "massive exploit", not "massive cheating".
 
SoulUnison

SoulUnison

Banned
BernardoOne said:
Then call it a "massive bug" or "massive exploit", not "massive cheating".
Click to expand...

Seriously, do you have anything to add to this discussion besides needling people on their choice of words when you know exactly the meaning behind them?

It legitimately seems at this point that you somehow have your self-esteem tied to people's perception of Dark Souls III.
 
R

roadrunn3r

Member
SoulUnison said:
Oh, I haven't personally encountered a single cheater, but I also know that there's an entire world that exists outside me and my experiences. I doubt that all these people across many different internet forums, news sites and platforms are all lying for some ill-defined gain, and if that were the case Namco-Bandai wouldn't take the time to repeatedly and specifically address and apologize for it.

If that's what you honestly believe, it's half conspiracy theory and half persecution complex, and I refuse to respect that opinion.
Click to expand...

This is a very weird argument. I don't need to believe in anything else than my experience with the game so far. (and it seems almost everyone else here in this thread has the same experience as I have)
 
M

MUnited83

For you.
SoulUnison said:
Seriously, do you have anything to add to this discussion besides needling people on their choice of words when you know exactly the meaning behind them?

It legitimately seems at this point that you somehow have your self-esteem tied to people's perception of Dark Souls III.
Click to expand...
Lmao, I do love your condescending style of posting, it just hilarious.
No, I'm not ok with the clickbait shitty title Kotaku chose for this article, which deliberately makes people think the game is full to the brim of cheaters. Which factually, it isn't.

Oh, and yes, my self esteem is totally tied to people's perception of Dark Souls III! Even if I think it's the worst game in the series! ROFLMAO.
roadrunn3r said:
This is a very weird argument. I don't need to believe in anything else than my experience with the game so far. (and it seems almost everyone else here in this thread has the same experience as I have)
Click to expand...
 
SoulUnison

SoulUnison

Banned
roadrunn3r said:
This is a very weird argument. I don't need to believe in anything else than my experience with the game so far. (and it seems almost everyone else here in this thread has the same experience as I have)
Click to expand...

Is it a weird argument? Because believing that an amount of people are being dishonest or misleading about something to achieve some nebulous gain for themselves is pretty much the textbook definition of a conspiracy theory. And you're right, you don't "need" to believe in anything but your own experiences, but for a discussion about an issue facing a population, you pretty much disqualify yourself if you come out the gate saying "Only my anecdotes matter."
 
G

Gattsu25

Banned
Yaboosh said:
That is lag, not cheating.

Sometimes when you do coop, the enemies don't move for you and don't attack you. This lets you just go to town on them. What the other players see is a player not moving much, and a boss moving normally and getting the shit beaten out of them by an invisible force.
Click to expand...

I know. It's the only unusual thing I've seen and I've only seen that three times total.
 
R

roadrunn3r

Member
SoulUnison said:
Is it a weird argument? Because believing that an amount of people are being dishonest or misleading about something to achieve some nebulous gain for themselves is pretty much the textbook definition of a conspiracy theory. And you're right, you don't "need" to believe in anything but your own experiences, but for a discussion about an issue facing a population, you pretty much disqualify yourself if you come out the gate saying "Only my anecdotes matter."
Click to expand...

Ok ok you got me, I surrender. Everyone in this thread is part of a conspiracy theory trying to convince innocent people that DS3 has no massive cheating issues. We are payed by From.
in souls
Have a nice day.
 
Zomba13

Zomba13

Member
This thread has a massive asshole problem.

By that I mean the obvious interpretation of the problem is actually not wide spread and only affects a few users and aren't assholes but it's about anti-asshole measures.
 
A

AlterOdin

Member
animlboogy said:
The actual article is worrying, but that title... That's asking for replies like we're seeing here.

75 hours, I encountered one group that teleported away from me and suddenly I died, and that could also have been lag, I'm still not sure.

So far this has been the best PvP experience I've had in a Souls game in terms of fair fights, although the estus speed makes duels fairly tedious. The accounting for weapon scaling in matching makes a huge difference over getting one-shotted by twinks in previous games.
Click to expand...

Do we know how this works exactly? I would imagine a invader just equipping a non-upgraded weapon, then changing it (from inventory) when in the players world.

Only thing I could imagine, is that it also checks the entire inventory (?).
 
BennyBlanco

BennyBlanco

aka IMurRIVAL69
50 hours deep. Tons of fight club outside the Pontiff bonfire. Never ran into a single cheater.

C689BAF0FA43278E98878034914B774B25679990
Click to expand...
 
L

Ludens

Banned
Abilidebob said:
Does Patrick Klepek play on PC?
Click to expand...

Probably the game checks for the id of each item on a regular basis, and if the game has soul memory is very easy to detect if someone cheated his level etc.
Also some anti-cheat system just make the game crash if they detect something cehat-rekated (it could be a site, a software etc) running with the game.

The strange thing here is legit users are claiming ban too.
I mean, for sure in the middle there will be also people who actually cheated and are trying to hide that using the whole situation, but it seems the From anti-cheat system doesn't work well, banning legit users for unknown reasons. The funny thing is some people moved the "banned" savegame to another account created with steam family share and they didn't get any ban on it, so maybe that sabe is really "clean" with something happening from From's end.
If you read the thread, some people even think about 360 pad could cause the issue, or Input Mapper, Riva Tuner, Borderlass Gaming. A dude also wrote he got banned when he skipped the activation of a bonfire activating the next one, so I don't really know.
I only think if all those were cheaters, there weren't multiple threads on Steam, Reddit etc, reporting the issue.
If I remember correctly From also wave-banned legit users in DS2 too, so it wouldn't even be a new thing.
 
S

Seyavesh

Member
apparently you can have on-hit effects that will theoretically trigger softbans for players you hit via stuff like giving them absurd amounts of souls/stat changes/items/world state changes when you hit them

so that's another fun aspect of this i guess

the softban system has always been a giant mystery to folks though, even in ds2 it seems like nobody could really figure it out
 
C

Calabi

Member
SoulUnison said:
That's not the only issue on the table here, but you seem to think that a glitch of that caliber, where cheaters can enter the games of others and maliciously destroy much of their progress, if not their entire save file, or even up to their basic ability to play the game with the "non-cheating" population isn't a "massive" issue?

That's just head-in-the-sand.

People don't even need to pick up the dropped hacked items for their game to be in jeopardy. It's enough for the game to autosave while an item is simply "present' somewhere in the world for this whole string of issues to be triggered. You could quit the game without every actually seeing the invader or any items he's spawned and still be graced by the softban.

So yes, there is both a "massive bug" problem, AND a "massive cheating" problem, where "massive" means "serious," "significant," or "worthy of attention."

You're trying to argue that these things are ok because it might be unlikely that an individual run into them, but the correct stance is that it's unacceptable that it could occur to even a single person. As long as there's a single player out there who paid $60 for a game and is unable to use basic functionality of the product, it's a "massive" problem.
Click to expand...

Yeah this is serious, its making me not buy the game until it's fixed.
 
A

activatethesmile

Member
Nev said:
Destiny isn't on PC and Call of Duty is joke-tier in terms of competitive, especially on PC where its online might as well not even exist because PC players know better than playing that overpriced, automated, DLC-filled crap when there are actual shooters to play on the platform, starting with the 1# competitive online shooter ever CS:GO.
Click to expand...

Holy shit dude, you're acting like he's hurting your PC Master Race pride or something, lol.

From what I can gather the worrying thing in DS3 is not the amount of cheaters playing but rather how legit players are prone to be banned for no good reason at all due to their anti-cheating mechanic.
 
SoulUnison

SoulUnison

Banned
Warning: Cheaters can now get you softbanned along with deleting your character stats just by getting hit once.

Is this a "massive" problem yet?

roadrunn3r said:
Ok ok you got me, I surrender. Everyone in this thread is part of a conspiracy theory trying to convince innocent people that DS3 has no massive cheating issues. We are payed by From.
in souls
Have a nice day.
Click to expand...

You somehow ended up at the exact opposite of my intention, but still managed to be supremely smug and sarcastic - congratulations.

BernardoOne said:
Lmao, I do love your condescending style of posting, it just hilarious.
No, I'm not ok with the clickbait shitty title Kotaku chose for this article, which deliberately makes people think the game is full to the brim of cheaters. Which factually, it isn't.
Click to expand...

You KNOW what the actual topic of discussion is here, though.
You're just being difficult and defensive for no apparent reason.
I wouldn't be able to "talk down" to you if you didn't keep digging the hole deeper beneath your feet.
 
U

UrbanRats

Member
The only guy I encountered, that I thought was cheating, was just a guy with massive lag, who didn't get hit by the boss for that reason.
 
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