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Does a game with bad story but perfect gameplay deserve 10/10 Reviews?
- Thread starter Arnie7
- Start date
More_Badass
Member
Again 10/10 doesn't mean a game is perfect. It means that the reviewer felt the game was so good/engrossing/unique/well-designed/etc. that it deserved the highest accolade and award they offer. It's not a concrete assessment of a game
skLaFarebear
Member
Definitely. If story isnt even a focus of the game why mark it down for lacking something ot doesn't even try to have. A game doesn't gave to be exceptional in every component to get the top score.
Agreed. Something like a Mario game, where the story is intentionally excuse-plot-tier, existing just for the purposes of getting the gameplay going and providing a backdrop for what you're doing, that wouldn't really affect its score, because the story isn't the point of the game.
If the story takes itself seriously and wants you to take it seriously and be invested in it, and then is a bad story or is told poorly, then it doesn't deserve a 10. How much that counts against it depends even further on how big a deal the story is supposed to be compared to the rest of the game. If the story is the entire game (something like Heavy Rain or any given "walking simulator") then having a bad story should be worth multiple full points even if it has the best walking mechanics ever (not saying Heavy Rain has a bad story, just using it as an example of a game in this category).
If the story is only part of the game, then it might only be fractions of a point, like 9.5/10 or 9.9/10 or whatever. If it's a system that's only whole numbers, then
they need more granularity anyway
It's an abstract and badly told story about building a rocketship
autoduelist
Member
Tetris? Pacman? Robotron 2084?
Just because people might argue a game needs something more than 'little to no story' doesn't mean they know what they're talking about.
Does a film that has excellent cinematography and sound design but has a bad story deserve 5 stars? The quality of a game (or film or book) is a multifaceted subject, and it's one that I don't think can be properly summed up in a single number. Even though story in games is less important than in other entertainment media, it still plays a role in the overall work. And so, a review should indicate any failings in that aspect, and the more it detracts from the overall experience, the harsher it should be criticized.
WeWereGiants
Member
Depends on the game, a Mario game for example doesn't need a story to propel it to 10/10 status it just needs to do superb platforming. However I do believe a game like The Last Of Us, Uncharted or Halo should take the story into account. I'm not sure if I'm being hypocritical but that's just my .2 cents
Bloodporne
Member
Tetris was an intricate Tom Clancy styled parable and musing on the Cold War only to be rivaled by Rocky IV.
VincentMatts
Member
No. A game that gets a 10 should do every aspect of its game better than most. If it doesnt, then no 10.
I agree with this. To me, 10/10 means that the reviewer liked the game so much that they felt the negative things didn't detract at all from the overall experience, that it's so good they don't matter.
As far as I am concerned, F.E.A.R. is a 10/10 game. I love everything about it, and I replayed it 4 times and haven't got tired yet. But is it perfect? Not really: there are like 3 different environments in the entire game, you can only hold 3 weapons but the number of cool guns is higher (which means you can't keep them all at the same time), and swimming animations and mechanics are kinda bad. Despite these negative points, I believe it's one of the best games ever made, and my enjoyment of it wasn't harmed by the presence of these issues. It blew my mind, shotgunned it at gunpoint in slow-mo while kung-fu kicking it to pieces, scared the hell out of me at times. It isn't perfect, but to me it feels perfect just the way it is.
In the case of Mirror's Edge, for example, I wouldn't feel uncomfortable giving it a 10 if the gameplay was fantastic all-around, despite the story being abysmal. I can pretend the latter doesn't exist by skipping every cutscene, and that's what I do every time I replay it. The main problem with this game is that the combat does more harm than good, and that is something which can't be easily skipped, if at all. There were several parts I didn't enjoy because of it, even if I ended up loving the game. That's something I can't ignore, while story in this particular game is meaningless and harmless.
It all depends on how much you enjoyed the overall package, I guess. You could also keep in mind what the game sets out to do (is it a narrative-driven title? A gameplay-focused one? A mix of both?), but in the end what matters is how you feel about the game. If you feel it deserves a 10/10 (which, after all, is only an arbitrary number set in an arbitrary scale), then it's only fair that you give it said score, perfection be damned.
poor attenpt trying to sound like the hipster of the topic...
Bloodporne
Member
Somewhat unrelated but back in the day I used to love the epilogue type stories printed in instruction booklets. It'd always basically kick off the game but it was up to you to use your imagination within the framework of the game to let it come to life.
Fbh
Member
Of course.
But it would have to be a game that's aware it's not about the story and just doesn't focus on it at all. And example would be something like Tropical Freeze (not at 10/10 for me, but close), there is a "plot" there to provide context, but it's like 2-3 super short cutscenes and that's it.
If, on the other hand, you have a game that actually puts focus on the story and has several cutscenes and dialogs and uses the plot as the mejor device to move the game forward, then it can't be a 10/10 if that plot isn't good
Really?
The people that gave Bayo 2 a 91 metascore, MGSV a 93 metascore and 3D World a 93 metascore put too much emphasis on story when deciding if they like a game?
But it would have to be a game that's aware it's not about the story and just doesn't focus on it at all. And example would be something like Tropical Freeze (not at 10/10 for me, but close), there is a "plot" there to provide context, but it's like 2-3 super short cutscenes and that's it.
If, on the other hand, you have a game that actually puts focus on the story and has several cutscenes and dialogs and uses the plot as the mejor device to move the game forward, then it can't be a 10/10 if that plot isn't good
Really?
The people that gave Bayo 2 a 91 metascore, MGSV a 93 metascore and 3D World a 93 metascore put too much emphasis on story when deciding if they like a game?
Well MGSV didn't have perfect gameplay so I don't think it deserves any 10/10. Horrible story aside, the gameplay was bloated and ruined by inconsistencies in its archaic "open world" bs.
D
Deleted member 325805
Unconfirmed Member
I guess it depends on the reviewers scale, I have never given a game 10/10 because to me that's a perfect game which doesn't exist, so the highest I've ever given is 9.5 and only to a few games.
5 - Average
6 - Decent
7 - Good
8 - Great
9 - Amazing
10 - Perfect
5 - Average
6 - Decent
7 - Good
8 - Great
9 - Amazing
10 - Perfect
The Artisan
Member
they do know what they're talking about, because they're talking about their opinion.
opulent_lemon
Banned
Yes. Story should always be secondary to gameplay. They're video *games* not hand-holdy story time interactive visual novels.
More_Badass
Member
So I take it that you don't enjoy adventure games and interactive fiction,
Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
Err...yes. Unless it is a game where the narrative is tied to the gameplay somehow.
The Artisan
Member
...because some people care about the story?
Muchi Muchi Pink
Member
Yes.
opulent_lemon
Banned
what does 'adventure game' entail exactly? platformers? sure I like a lot of them. RPGs? I enjoy RPGs quite a lot; action, japanese, isometric etc. If I find the gameplay fun and well put-together/well designed while completely ignoring the story then I can generally enjoy it.
More_Badass
Member
Adventure games include text adventures/interactive fiction, point-n-clicks, visual novels, etc.
Basically the continued evolution of the classic text adventure
Think Myst, Monkey Island, The Walking Dead
Portugeezer
Member
It could be a 10.
Kagoshima_Luke
Gold Member
Two more words: Ninja Gaiden
More_Badass
Member
What about the other spectrum? How do the "only gameplay matters" folks feel about a game with an incredible story but basic gameplay?
SilentTristero
Member
This isn't gonna be the most popular answer, but I think it's completely legitimate to knock points off a game with "perfect gameplay" if it has an obnoxiously terrible story. Clumsy narratives I can let slide because gameplay is often paramount. But if we want games to be accepted as art, then the setting and messaging of the game's story certainly should be a factor in the art criticism surrounding it. If you think GTAV is an amazing technical accomplishment, but you're personally turned off by it's lazy satirical misogyny, then I expect and want your review to reflect that.
The Artisan
Member
i can tell you this
it is of my opinion that overall (even though they're completely different games) long story short, Me3 has better gameplay than Yakuza 3.
however, I enjoyed Yakuza 3 way way waaaaaaaaaaaay WAAAAAYYYY fucking more than Me3.
reason being: I like playing games with a good story, games that are story driven. That's my personal preference. And even though Me3 has better gameplay, as an overall product I think Yakuza 3 is better even though the gameplay isn't as good.
The thread should have ended with this post.
Story/narrative matters to certain people, but others...it doesn't.
People in here claim that the DMC's, NG's and other action games that have don't have the most epic or engaging storylines are still games that are still worth or should be credited as a 10/10 game based on it's other merits.
At the end of the day, it's someones opinion. your going to piss off someone regardless of your answer...
I guess it would depend on the game, but as a general thing, for me as gameplay is all that matters, from my viewpoint I would say yes, if a game has gameplay that's deserving of it, then it deserves the score.
If a game isn't fun to play gameplay wise, then I would have no interest in playing it no matter how brilliant the story is.
If a game isn't fun to play gameplay wise, then I would have no interest in playing it no matter how brilliant the story is.
More_Badass
Member
Not bad or unenjoyable to play, but just basic. As in the gameplay is there for the purpose of what is needed to enjoy the game. Like how The Walking Dead has walking and interaction, or point-n-clicks lets you move your character and manage your inventory.
Seems kind of limiting if you only want games to be fun
The notion that 10/10 equals "a perfect game that does nothing wrong" is rubbish to me.
My 10/10 is a game I had the best sort of time with. I enjoyed my journey through it immensly and so on. It can have flaws when you look at specific things but nothing that detracts anything from my experience while playing.
Take Metroid: Other M for example. The gameplay is fun. Really fun. Not much wrong there for me. Maybe around an 8 on that. The story is horrible tho. Disgustingly shitty. It seriously taints the whole experience and in the end I gave it a 4/10 when I reviewed it.
If the story is insignificant and doesn't matter to me, like in a Mario game, it won't influence the score either way.
So if the story annoys me, angers me or bores me, the score goes down.
As for the opposite, hrm... I don't think a great story can save a game with bad gameplay. Story definitely doesn't bring the score up as much as it can bring it down for me.
Nowadays when I don't review games I thankfully don't have to think about scores when playing. I have no idea what I would have given Deadly Premonition. I loved the characters and mystery but found the combat areas boring and a bit tedious. I generally enjoyed it tho so I dunno.
My 10/10 is a game I had the best sort of time with. I enjoyed my journey through it immensly and so on. It can have flaws when you look at specific things but nothing that detracts anything from my experience while playing.
Take Metroid: Other M for example. The gameplay is fun. Really fun. Not much wrong there for me. Maybe around an 8 on that. The story is horrible tho. Disgustingly shitty. It seriously taints the whole experience and in the end I gave it a 4/10 when I reviewed it.
If the story is insignificant and doesn't matter to me, like in a Mario game, it won't influence the score either way.
So if the story annoys me, angers me or bores me, the score goes down.
As for the opposite, hrm... I don't think a great story can save a game with bad gameplay. Story definitely doesn't bring the score up as much as it can bring it down for me.
Nowadays when I don't review games I thankfully don't have to think about scores when playing. I have no idea what I would have given Deadly Premonition. I loved the characters and mystery but found the combat areas boring and a bit tedious. I generally enjoyed it tho so I dunno.
DustyVonEric
Member
Of course.
Diablo 3
Racing games
Fighting games
Sports games
Some people don't understand or play Souls games for the story.
Tetris and Ms Pacman for me are 10/10 games.
Diablo 3
Racing games
Fighting games
Sports games
Some people don't understand or play Souls games for the story.
Tetris and Ms Pacman for me are 10/10 games.
Reverend Funk
Comfy Penetration
Review scales are arbitrary
Oh right. Well for those kind of games then yeah I guess the story would be the main thing being taken into account for reviews, as I assume that's the main reason people are playing them.
I'm not sure if your question was asking from a review standpoint though or a "What do you think about them?" one. If it's the latter, then they don't interest me, gameplay is king for me and has to be the main part of a game, or at least enjoyable enough on it's own.
CrunchyFrog
Member
Review scores are rubbish shorthand for those too enamored with instant gratification to take the time to absorb real critique, and this example show's precisely that.
IronicSonic
Member
It's depends on what's methodology for giving a score. If the publication uses an average score between 3 or more aspects, probably not.
If the publication uses the "overall feeling" upon a game, it could be.
I prefer the later.
If the publication uses the "overall feeling" upon a game, it could be.
I prefer the later.
Prophet Steve
Member
Perfect sounds so silly for a 10. Every single game is so far from "perfect" that we should just score everything a 1. The step between excellent and perfect is absolutely huge. The perfect game is probably one you'd be satisfied with to play forever.
MrRudiMentary
Member
It depends what the game aims for I believe. I wouldn't say Tetris is shit because it has good gameplay and a shit story, but if the game had incredible gameplay interspersed with hours of terrible story cutscenes, it would definitely affect my enjoyment. Vice versa a game with a good story where you had to slog through awful combat arenas would be considered worse than a game like The Beginner's Guide, even though the latter is almost entirely narrative based.
I mean I like a few straight up visual novels with zero gameplay but I don't keep those in the same kind of head space as a 'normal' game.
There's been more than a few 'real' games where the story grabbed me well enough that I was able to forgive the game part. Asura's Wrath, Xenosaga 1 for example. I can power through jank/bad gameplay if the game is just that interesting. Deadly Premonition is the classic example although I genuinely liked its open world aspects. I just couldn't put it down no matter how bad those shooting sections got.
I'm not a game reviewer and I don't want to be one. A game can be totally competent and well made, with all its i's dotted and t's crossed and hold absolutely no interest for me. To me it feels like Ubisoft specializes in making games like that. But in some nightmare funhouse mirror world where I had to review video games I would be much less likely to award a 10/10 to a game with a great story and mediocre gameplay, than I would to something like Monster Hunter that plays great and has a who-gives-a-fuck plot. I wouldn't give Deadly Premonition a 10 in a million years, even though I'm a big fan of the game. But I can't fault Jim Sterling for wanting to call attention to that wonderful mess by doing so.
Bloodporne
Member
Would never work for me at all. A serviceable plot is merely garnish for me at best when I play games. I just have no interest at all in character motivations, developments or any of that if it involves ripping away control from me in constant cutscenes especially.
Basic gameplay with a great story and all that is the equivalent of a poor film with tons of CGI to make up for its lack of a good script underneath. Pretty much Uncharted in a nutshell if I had to point to a particular game.