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Magic: the Gathering |OT10| Aether Revolt - That shit that make your Soul Burn slow

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aidan

Hugo Award Winning Author and Editor
no doubt there's a huge market for mtg fans that want to play a fantasy mmo, not like there are literally hundreds of options already or anything

Eh. I doubt it's enough to actually prop up a full-fledged MMO that will compete against WoW, FF14, DOTA, LOL, Overwatch, etc. for player's time and money.

Also, how does that even work? Each zone is a new plane?
 

Angry Grimace

Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
Good Lord, that's an unfortunate name -

Chris Cocks
President, Wizards of the Coast

Like, you have to know its way better to just change the spelling to "Cox"
 

Poppy

Member
Eh. I doubt it's enough to actually prop up a full-fledged MMO that will compete against WoW, FF14, DOTA, LOL, Overwatch, etc. for player's time and money.

Also, how does that even work? Each zone is a new plane?

i think it would be more like each plane is a new expansion, almost exactly like how wow does it. like the zendikar expansion would have zones devoted to oran rief etc and then patch x.3 is where the eldrazi emerge
 

darkside31337

Tomodachi wa Mahou
Good Lord, that's an unfortunate name -

Chris Cocks
President, Wizards of the Coast

Like, you have to know its way better to just change the spelling to "Cox"

Would just sign every letter as C.C or something. At least his first name isn't Mike or Richard.

Also a new MMO of any kind just seems like something they'd never ever do given the way they treat MTGO and digital in general. Take some baby steps first.
 

Haly

One day I realized that sadness is just another word for not enough coffee.
Welcome to the Gatewatch, <player name>.

Here's your [Frayed Tunic] and [Rusty Hatchet]. You can help the Eldrazi War effort by collecting 10 bear asses yonder that hill.
 
If there's anything worse than playing against CopyCat it's playing against it in frickin Aetherworks Marvel. Haha flash in Cat to flicker Marvel, very fun haha.
From what I can gather, the Consulate is the ruling government of Kaladesh that is some weird combo of "meritocracy", "technocratic government", "oligarchy". There are different tiers of the Consulate Government, and depending upon how well you performed you get promoted( Baan, Baral, Tezz). In fact, Tezz being given as much power as he has is a sign that he's made some friends in high places. Baan seems ignorant of Tezz's association with Bolas, so he's not pulling that kind of strings, but Baan did remark that Tezz has risen remarkably fast.

Pia's Beef(And arguably the beef of every Rebel) is that the Consulate believes they have the right to control who gets the Aether and how much they get. The Rebel Alliance disagrees and Chandra first showed her pyromancy when running a smuggling mission. However, Tezz ends up serving as the symbol of the corrupt consulate because since he seized power, the Aether flow has been constricted/the government has cracked down. Think Donald Trump and Racism/Sexism/Bigotry. It's hard to rebel against the systems that are in place, but the moment you have a face to it revolt becomes easier.

From the Artbook pictures that I've seen, it appears that the rebels stop rebelling once Tezzeret is kicked off and the Consulate finally decides to stop constricting Aether. The big "change" that the revolt brings is the freedom of Aether for the plane. I'd also not be surprised (supposing the art book is true) if Pia is given some role in the reformed Consulate as an olive branch to the rebellion.

Isn't freedom of Aether dumb? That's like allowing everyone to burn coal in their backyard. Unless aether is this infinite, free of repercussion element whose absence/drainage has no consequence, or is 100% recyclable. My point is unless Kaladesh is magical christmas land regulation would be advised.
 
People don't want to play an mtg mmo, they want to play mtg online.

I would bet there is a market for a "Shandalar"-style game with some manner of online play. I agree that I don't think there is much demand (real demand) for a traditional MMO along the lines of WOW or what-have-you with real-time or even RTWP combat etc.

Something where you battle things / people or complete challenges with decks of cards makes sense as a product. Could be wrong, though.
 
If there's anything worse than playing against CopyCat it's playing against it in frickin Aetherworks Marvel. Haha flash in Cat to flicker Marvel, very fun haha.


Isn't freedom of Aether dumb? That's like allowing everyone to burn coal in their backyard. Unless aether is this infinite, free of repercussion element whose absence/drainage has no consequence, or is 100% recyclable. My point is unless Kaladesh is magical christmas land regulation would be advised.

Aether is supposedly naturally generated. Remember that Kaladesh has very, very little Mages of any kind. It's generated and a large part of the Kaladesh Design was "Who recycles it?", Which IIRC falls into Green/Red/Black.(Green Creates I believe, Gremlins steal, Aether born are primarily black)

The issue is, and I'm not 100% certain of this, is that part of Aether comes from dead Aether born. If Yaheeni can somehow transmit their gift of "Aether stealing", then that could cause an issue.
 

Jhriad

Member
What would it be like to throw fireballs as a Planeswalker in an MMO

Hey there! Have you heard of this rad game called Everquest? What if we did that with Magic: the Gathering™ settings and characters?! I know, I'm excited too!

Wait, it's not 2001? Oh, I guess WOTC is still a little behind with their digital initiatives.
 
Aether is supposedly naturally generated. Remember that Kaladesh has very, very little Mages of any kind. It's generated and a large part of the Kaladesh Design was "Who recycles it?", Which IIRC falls into Green/Red/Black.(Green Creates I believe, Gremlins steal, Aether born are primarily black)

The issue is, and I'm not 100% certain of this, is that part of Aether comes from dead Aether born. If Yaheeni can somehow transmit their gift of "Aether stealing", then that could cause an issue.
IIRC, the way it works is that aether has to be processed before it can be used as fuel, but after it's used, it simply returns to the atmosphere. The ROI is unclear, but getting it from the atmosphere is costly enough that mining for aether is still common. Aether also gets trapped in old machines, which is where gremlins come in. The process of refining aether naturally creates aetherborn, and when they die, they turn into atmospheric aether.
 
IIRC, the way it works is that aether has to be processed before it can be used as fuel, but after it's used, it simply returns to the atmosphere. The ROI is unclear, but getting it from the atmosphere is costly enough that mining for aether is still common. Aether also gets trapped in old machines, which is where gremlins come in. The process of refining aether naturally creates aetherborn, and when they die, they turn into atmospheric aether.
Costly in what way? Considering their engines are powered by aether, and it has to be more than a zero-sum game, presumably it's a perpetuum mobile as long as the materials hold up. The issue then becomes, that if Aether consumption is a closed cycle, the materials used to acquire it are the finite resource and as such valuable.
Aether is supposedly naturally generated. Remember that Kaladesh has very, very little Mages of any kind. It's generated and a large part of the Kaladesh Design was "Who recycles it?", Which IIRC falls into Green/Red/Black.(Green Creates I believe, Gremlins steal, Aether born are primarily black)

The issue is, and I'm not 100% certain of this, is that part of Aether comes from dead Aether born. If Yaheeni can somehow transmit their gift of "Aether stealing", then that could cause an issue.
I just can't wrap my head around around the whole aether to electricity process just yet.
 

Angry Grimace

Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
Just don't waste any of your brainpower trying to figure out why they don't have guns on Kaladesh despite having trains, fully-powered mechanical robots and flying warships.
 
Just don't waste any of your brainpower trying to figure out why they don't have guns on Kaladesh despite having trains, fully-powered mechanical robots and flying warships.
tumblr_l9ofikYl6q1qb6v3b.jpg~original


To be fair have we actually seen combustibles? They effectively skipped past us already and we should be asking why they don't have railguns and tasers, lasers, etc.
 

OnPoint

Member
Just don't waste any of your brainpower trying to figure out why they don't have guns on Kaladesh despite having trains, fully-powered mechanical robots and flying warships.
If we could leave Kaladesh early for any reason it would be my desire to put this dead and tired debate behind us.
 

Poppy

Member
im pretty sure every plane has combustibles, its just that for some reason no one ever figured out that you can put things that explode in hollow tubes in order to propel objects forward
 

Wulfric

Member
i think it would be more like each plane is a new expansion, almost exactly like how wow does it. like the zendikar expansion would have zones devoted to oran rief etc and then patch x.3 is where the eldrazi emerge

As much as I would love this, MMOs are not big money makers outside of outliers like WoW or Final Fantasy XIV. Video game fans would be hard to please, and Magic fans would be apathetic to such a game. I certainly don't play for the riveting story. The idea of an Emrakul dungeon raid is amusing though. It would have to be free-to-play, if they're serious about this.

I'm worried that Rudy might be off his rocker; he's growing Eternal Masters in his backyard now. But he's pulling in $14,000 a month from Patreon, so what do I know? That man is killing it.
 
I feel like a lot of people quoting the middle section of the digital letter out of context have made it come off very differently than how it should. In the full thing the first section is this:

We are reimagining digital versions of Magic and other Wizards games. We recently created the Digital Games Studio, a group of all-stars led by industry veteran Jeffrey Steefel. Jeffrey's team includes experienced Wizards game designers and industry talent from Dire Wolf Digital, Valve Corporation, Cryptic Studios, Warner Bros. Interactive Entertainment, Activision, BioWare, and many others. The Magic Online team is now included in this group, as well as digital art and game design. They're all thinking about how players might tap mana and prepare spells in the future, and I can't wait for you to see what they're working on.

Or in other words: we hired an actual experienced digital games developer (specifically, the long-time producer of Lord of the Rings Online) to run a team, staffed it with hires from real game developers (including Dire Wolf, one of the places Magic exiles have been fleeing to), and put them in charge of a brand-new digital Magic platform. This (along with, as unfair as it is to speak ill of the dead, Worth's departure) is pretty much the best news we've gotten yet about Magic Digital Next. The stuff about spinoff license games is a little goofy but it's clearly presented as a secondary concern to a real digital game.
 

Ashodin

Member
Worth gone? Shit is getting real this year digitally then.

oh since spoiler season is over, what you think about this week's legendrule?

Aq1s66l.png
 

bigkrev

Member
I'm guessing when they are talking about spin-offs, they are talking more about stuff line Magic Puzzle Quest and less like bad MMOs
 
I would play a Magic MMO if it was super goofy and you were actually playing as a fictional character who was themself playing Magic in the game, like the Yu-Gi-Oh anime.

Also I want it in VR so I can make doing dumb poses when I play cards part of the design.
 

sgjackson

Member
I would play a Magic MMO if it was super goofy and you were actually playing as a fictional character who was themself playing Magic in the game, like the Yu-Gi-Oh anime.

it's obviously way less of a priority than making a version of modo that isn't shit, but fleshing out magic duels with a character creator/item system/social component isn't the worst idea (assuming they're keeping the two-tiered digital thing and not figuring out a way to get both casuals and hardcore players on the same platform)
 

bigkrev

Member
I would play a Magic MMO if it was super goofy and you were actually playing as a fictional character who was themself playing Magic in the game, like the Yu-Gi-Oh anime.

Also I want it in VR so I can make doing dumb poses when I play cards part of the design.

I want to say the original Duel Masters Manga was about characters playing Magic the Gathering in a similar fashion to Yugioh, before they switched to Duel Masters (nee Kaijudo) at some point.

Sadly, the closest we get now is YOKO doing art for Hareruya
Cz9RDadUoAANi0m.jpg
 

cuc

Member
Second-hand information from another forum:
Well, according to the book, innovation was always valued, and there seem to have always been inventors. It's just that the Great Aether Boom or whatever made the acquisition and safe refinement of aether much easier. Apparently some feuding nobles would make their chief inventors compete rather than go to war. Although there was a war between eleven principalities that preceded the founding of Ghirapur and the Consulate. The nobles' chief inventors ended up negotiating a peace that involved the foundation of Ghirapur in the heart of the contested territory. They also apparently became the first eleven consuls. Which seems a bit odd, since previous lore told us the Consulate was founded after the Great Aether Boom to handle the refinement and distribution of aether... and I don't recall the GAB being mentioned at all in the 'War of Eleven' bit, which seemed to be a fairly old war, compared to the very recent GAB...
 
So what's the most efficient way for Revolt trigger'd Fatal push in standard? Seems real easy with fetch lands in other formats. What's the go too in standard?
 
T

Transhuman

Unconfirmed Member
So what's the most efficient way for Revolt trigger'd Fatal push in standard? Seems real easy with fetch lands in other formats. What's the go too in standard?

Wait for your opponent to use Fatal Push on you first.
 

OnPoint

Member
They do have tasers and the turrets are sort of railgunny.

[IM]https://img.scryfall.com/cards/en/aer/168.jpg?20170106[/IMG]
147.jpg

They've done cannons in the past, but I actually overlooked that cannon before -- it's pretty much an aether launcher! Why couldn't they just strap that onto one of the mechs and make people
somewhat
happy?
 
I'm guessing when they are talking about spin-offs, they are talking more about stuff line Magic Puzzle Quest and less like bad MMOs

I think that bullet point is way less about Magic (which as described isn't an amazing fit here) and way more about D&D (which is an incredibly potent brand for this sort of thing that's lain fallow for a long, long time.)
 
They do have tasers and the turrets are sort of railgunny.
Should have said compact, we were talking about the omission of guns after all but definitely an interesting find with the attilery
I... what?

It's fantasy. It can literally be whatever they want it to be.

It not matching up with your notions does not make it wrong in any way.

Yes and no. You can make up a premise but you still have to explain what is done with it. Take Magic, it operates on mana and Wizards has explained time and again how people draw Mana from the lands they are attuned with and the amount they can is dependent on their vicinity to those. That mana in turn is used to power their spells, more powerful spells require more mana, etc. There's structure to it, it's not just here's a fireball because this is fantasy.

When themes and content is appropriated the whole argument changes as well. If Wizards made giants and called them dwarves would you say the same? We have a certain notion what dwarves are and while you can deviate from it to an extent for most individuals there's a limit where they wouldn't be dwarves anymore.
 
Or in other words: we hired an actual experienced digital games developer (specifically, the long-time producer of Lord of the Rings Online) to run a team, staffed it with hires from real game developers (including Dire Wolf, one of the places Magic exiles have been fleeing to), and put them in charge of a brand-new digital Magic platform. This (along with, as unfair as it is to speak ill of the dead, Worth's departure) is pretty much the best news we've gotten yet about Magic Digital Next. The stuff about spinoff license games is a little goofy but it's clearly presented as a secondary concern to a real digital game.

God I hope they get it right this time. I know I'm setting myself up for more disappointment but the dream is just too beautiful to let go.
 

OnPoint

Member
Yes and no. You can make up a premise but you still have to explain what is done with it. Take Magic, it operates on mana and Wizards has explained time and again how people draw Mana from the lands they are attuned with and the amount they can is dependent on their vicinity to those. That mana in turn is used to power their spells, more powerful spells require more mana, etc. There's structure to it, it's not just here's a fireball because this is fantasy.

When themes and content is appropriated the whole argument changes as well. If Wizards made giants and called them dwarves would you say the same? We have a certain notion what dwarves are and while you can deviate from it to an extent for most individuals there's a limit where they wouldn't be dwarves anymore.

There's a difference between calling giants 'dwarves' and having or not having guns. This is a false equivalency. Just because their fantasy settings make you think there should be guns, that doesn't require that they should. Again -- it's not based on history (nor even is there a historical equivalent to draw on for Kaladesh). They can handwave away guns with an in-universe rationalization at any point. Just let it go. It's not happening.
 

Jhriad

Member
Just don't waste any of your brainpower trying to figure out why they don't have guns on Kaladesh despite having trains, fully-powered mechanical robots and flying warships.

Because things like Pyromancers exist. Why would anyone use anyone use explosive propellants that could be affected by external sources of heat or energy when you can use safer, more tamper resistant mechanical processes and/or magic instead? While explosives make sense since planes analogous to even relatively early societies would have found explosive compounds, the level of refinement required for firearms to be as effective as other military implements would require a setting rather unique, even for Magic. The idea that a gun would ever be commonly used in any high magic setting is a stretch that would require explanation to be believable. Plus, WOTC probably thought it would be more 'All Ages' friendly to not have guns in the artwork and whatnot.
 

Maledict

Member
Because things like Pyromancers exist. Why would anyone use anyone use explosive propellants that could be affected by external sources of heat or energy when you can use safer, more tamper resistant mechanical processes and/or magic instead? While explosives make sense since planes analogous to even relatively early societies would have found explosive compounds, the level of refinement required for firearms to be as effective as other military implements would require a setting rather unique, even for Magic. The idea that a gun would ever be commonly used in any high magic setting is a stretch that would require explanation to be believable. Plus, WOTC probably thought it would be more 'All Ages' friendly to not have guns in the artwork and whatnot.

But pyromancers don't exist normally on Kaledesh - isn't that why Chandra was in trouble inthe first place?

Plus, unless you have a huge amount of pyromancers, you are still going to want guns because guns allow normal people to fight wizards. That's a very common fantasy staple for a reason - most people don't have magic, guns allow normal people to in some way go toe got toe with a wizard. Certainly more than a sword or arrow would.
 

bigkrev

Member
http://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/latest-developments/standard-2017-01-13
Latest Developments on bans

We're also having a lot of very serious discussions about hate cards and powerful answers. As you have noticed with Fatal Push, we are not totally against printing very powerful answers in Standard, but we need to up that number. The pendulum of threats versus answers has swung too far toward the threats, and that has caused problems with our metagame. Our decision to not print enough answer cards also has shown to be a real problem. Some parts of this were conscious, like pushing story cards and new card types, and some were a result of moving to two-block world and removing the core set where we traditionally put many of the answers to these kinds of cards. We learned a lot from the last three blocks on how the two-block world should work and are incorporating those ideas into future sets. Again, you won't see all the changes immediately, but we are incorporating those learnings into sets you will play with soon.

THEY DID IT! THEY REALIZED THEY FUCKED UP

Also, on Cat ban

Most notably, we will be looking closely at the Copycat decks from the Pro Tour and seeing how they emerge and evolve over the next few weeks. I remember when Khans of Tarkir came out, there was a lot of concern that Jeskai Ascendancy combo would be the strongest deck in the format, but despite some early success, the deck remained pretty fringe. There are a lot of cards in the format that are good against Copycat, and we didn't feel like taking a preemptive swing at the deck with a banning was an appropriate action.
 
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