timetokill
Banned
I bolded the key word for you.
Scum will bus if it will buy them significant time or townie points. Doing what scum wants is rarely in town's best interests.
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Pineapple Pizza Mafia |OT| The War On Fruit Pizza
- Thread starter Sophia
- Start date
I bolded the key word for you.
Scum will bus if it will buy them significant time or townie points. Doing what scum wants is rarely in town's best interests.
timetokill
Banned
Speaking of which, why were you trying to end the day early, Dr. WWorm?
hey_monkey
Banned
ttk, are you gonna answer my question about Palmer?
While you're at it... Please explain to me why as scum I would start the day in a way that almost certainly leads to my scum partner being killed. So much so that I had a prepared post ready to go. In what universe does it make sense for us to spend a whole night phase planning this knowing there is almost certainly a real cop out there who could check any one of us. Scum's roleblocker is dead. Town is and has already been fractured along party lines. Of all the strategies, why would THIS one be the way? If Swamped, Blarg, Sky, and I are the scum team planning this, why wouldn't I be the sacrifice? Blarg is obviously great at arguing. People already like to ignore me or read me as scum for reasons. So why am I not the fake red check who then claims as neutral but is secret scum?
While you're at it... Please explain to me why as scum I would start the day in a way that almost certainly leads to my scum partner being killed. So much so that I had a prepared post ready to go. In what universe does it make sense for us to spend a whole night phase planning this knowing there is almost certainly a real cop out there who could check any one of us. Scum's roleblocker is dead. Town is and has already been fractured along party lines. Of all the strategies, why would THIS one be the way? If Swamped, Blarg, Sky, and I are the scum team planning this, why wouldn't I be the sacrifice? Blarg is obviously great at arguing. People already like to ignore me or read me as scum for reasons. So why am I not the fake red check who then claims as neutral but is secret scum?
hey_monkey
Banned
If ttk and Isaac - two people who were already suspect - manage to pull this off, I hope y'all lynch the shit out of them when I flip town cop. OH WAIT then you also have to maybe shelve Blarg and you get a repeat of Arkham.
Before Blarg claimed neutral town killer I said straight out kill me if you want. But you are then purposely leaving either a scum or neutral killer on the loose.
Before Blarg claimed neutral town killer I said straight out kill me if you want. But you are then purposely leaving either a scum or neutral killer on the loose.
Why did you cop check blarg, who was probably going to be under suspicion anyway for his bad play, when you could have cop checked me, who you've said is impossible to read for sure?
You know, your worst case could just be avoided by maintaining a healthy level of skepticism regarding me and hey_monkey. It is good to consider a wide range of possibilities, but tunneling too hard on a single possibility is bad.
I understand what you are afraid of. In mini-mafia, I lost the game for town because I accepted flame_AC as confirmed town and let that cloud my decision making. However, that only became a game-ending mistake because I carried that perception into Lylo, not because we rode the bus to lynch scum.
Typically though, scum don't kill other scum unless there is no other option. Scum team members are incredibly valuable. Each scum lost is a big blow to their team. As such, most of the time, scum take an simple approach: attack each other to appear at odds and not look like teammates earlier, but then back off before the heat gets bad enough to become a real lynch. The only reason a complete bus lynch happened in mini-mafia was because Stanley got a red check on Squidy just as Squidy and Flame_AC were full on attacking each other. At that point, Flame_AC had no choice but to go full bus and join the lynch on his teammate.
However in that case, going through with lynching scum was absolutely the correct move. It killed scum. The only reason it lead to a lose was because we let our guard down. If you think hey_monkey is scum, then just don't let your guard down on subsequent days.
However, Scum faking red checks on other scum just to win town points is extremely rare. It is by nature an extraordinarily risky gambit that has the potential to backfire spectacularly. I am disinclined to think that hey_monkey and Blarg are working together on this. If Blarg is actually neutral, hey_monkey might be scum, but we would still be able to figure that out based on her behavior down the road.
lynching scum >>>>>>>>>>>>>> "townie points"
there is literally no reason why we can't still keep whatifing and throwing shade at hey_monkey tomorrow anyway if we wanted
hey_monkey
Banned
I didn't want to waste it if you were telling the truth. And since I'd already been gunning for you, would my red check be believed if I got one? As for why I finally hit on Blarg, I already went over that twice. I'm on my phone and can't link. Was nearer start of day.
I'm impatient
especially when it comes to you not acknowledging something that's come up consistently for past ten pages - if hey_monkey is not the town cop, where is the town cop
Palmer_v1 was right about people putting Burbeting on /ignore
hey_monkey
Banned
timetokill
Banned
Sorry, I missed it originally.
I think Palmer's claim of being vanilla is bullshit. I do think he's town, though, and has wisely decided to (relatively) quiet down. But he's one of many in a long line of "I'm not worth killing, I swear!" claims. There's no way to believe them all.
I thought this was already obvious, but:
- Blarg was already the primary target heading into D3. Fighting the tide would put more of you in danger. It made sense to try and bus him straight away.
- By sacrificing Blarg, and combined with Sky's "you better not lynch me OR ELSE" claim, and you BACKING his claim, you essentially make yourselves the two towniest motherfuckers around.
- Meanwhile you're also making an argument for both of you to not only not be lynched, but you've created a plausible reason as to why you wouldn't be killed during the night, either.
To be totally honest, I think it's a genius plan.
If you are lynched and you're not lying, we lose one whole fucking day, but your info is confirmed, we can trust Sky 100% and Blarg gets turbo'd the next day.
Come on monkey, I know you're not dumb. You understand why I'm making this argument.
I think there are several possibilities I'm considering, and the way to stop them from getting out of control is vetting monkey, who again I don't even think is scum (although her resistance to being vetted for the good of town despite being essentially vanilla at this point is making me suspicious).
This gets to my main point, which is my own level of skepticism is obviously not shared by the rest of town, who apparently already think monkey's word is as good as gold. With this being a role madness game, there's no way we will lynch monkey (or you) because monkey will probably be vanilla and we'll need to focus on remaining power roles at that time, and obviously you either because the threat of two straight nights is way too dangerous, and only becomes MORE dangerous the later the game goes.
I mean, I guess, but having only played one game of Mafia before, I bussed a scummate pretty hard pretty early on and I ended up winning the game. I know how powerful setting yourself up as a trusted townie can be. There were always one or two people suspicious of me after that, but never enough people in town to get rid of me.
All I can go on is how I would play this if I were scum. And right now if I was a scum hey_monkey I would be doing these exact same moves.
See above. My own personal skepticism isn't enough. It's a town effort.
This is naive. If Blarg flips scum, hey_monkey will literally never be in danger of a lynch ever again, nor will SkyOdin. 1000%.
timetokill
Banned
Palmer and burb are peas in a pod in this game so I don't take either seriously when they talk about the other.
Meanwhile, some want town cop to reveal, and others have said not to. I can totally see why a town cop shouldn't reveal right now, especially if they have shots left.
timetokill
Banned
Also impatience during a day phase is generally a scum tell.
Why does it seem like you're repeatedly pushing for an investigator claim? It's always possible there's more than one role in this game, for example maybe a weak cop or hider, etc, but your insistence that their counterclaim would somehow refute what Monkey said is silly. I've heard the run around previously about the pros and cons of a counterclaim, I didn't think it was genuinely then and I don't think it's genuine now. All I can see is role fishing.
Keep on being pedantic instead of answering questions Palmer, though I guess you will anyway.
Will answer questions or will be pedantic?
there's enough mafia roles that multiple cops during role madness isn't plausible - there's a ton of ways to add power to town without doubling up on cops, and I've personally never heard of a mafia game that does it (but please correct me if I'm wrong, especially if that game is here)
Aren't you attempting both?
This is bull, just Arkham the other day had multiple investigative roles so saying it's unlikely during role madness is deceptive. We're not even sure about the role compositions and (hello!) with the amount of claimed vanilla roles, does that seem plausible. Worm please
wasn't one of those neutral?
I'm talking town having multiple investigators, not town having one and neutral being one or town having one and scum having one
Only examples I can think of involved deputy cops, rather than cops that could act simultaneously. We might have some other sort of investigator though, such as a tracker. Impossible to know at this point, so we are probably better off assuming we don't.
I don't care about trackers because Miller doesn't fuck over trackers
I'm talking two cops, aligned with town
When does town ever have multiple cop roles, unless you count tracker? Reasonably, there could be two weak cops in a game but I doubt it, and even if there was another investigative role in the game did you want to turn today into a thunderdome? What idiot would claim to be put into a dome with Monkey?
Day 3 votes
timetokill (0)
launchpadmcq 2173 (2183)
blargonaut (5)
hey_monkey 2175 (2581)
burbeting 2178
palmer_v1 2180
launchpadmcq 2183 (2291)
skyodin 2276
acohrs 2407 (2615)
nomadic sparks 2408 (2723)
isaacnukem 2434 (2596)
dr. worm 2504 (2509)
lifeline 2666 (2721)
hey_monkey 2704
dr. worm 2712
palmer_v1 (0)
isaacnukem 2177 (2434)
nomadic sparks (0)
timetokill 2361 (2438)
skyodin (0)
nomadic sparks 2368 (2385)
hey_monkey (1)
timetokill 2438
lifeline 2518 (2666)
blackbuzzard (1)
acohrs 2615
monkey (1)
nomadic sparks 2723
acohrs (1)
blackbuzzard 2724
An up to date vote count can be found here
Majority is 9
Day 3 ends in:
timetokill (0)
blargonaut (5)
burbeting 2178
palmer_v1 2180
skyodin 2276
hey_monkey 2704
dr. worm 2712
palmer_v1 (0)
nomadic sparks (0)
skyodin (0)
hey_monkey (1)
timetokill 2438
blackbuzzard (1)
acohrs 2615
monkey (1)
nomadic sparks 2723
acohrs (1)
blackbuzzard 2724
An up to date vote count can be found here
Majority is 9
Day 3 ends in:
that's my point
As I said, the only precedent for that involved deputies, not two cops working in parallel. It would be highly unlikely that we have two cops, even though I can't dismiss the possibility entirely.
Are you being purposely selective in what you hear?
Blarg has already confessed to being non-town, though. Even if hey_monkey is scum, her red check so far appears to be genuine. If another town cop was to claim, how would that influence the game at this point? Would you think monkey was scum? Or would you think the newly claiming cop was scum?
I am a little confused by how you imagine this would theoretically play out.
I am a little confused by how you imagine this would theoretically play out.
That's the entire point. Regardless of how this blows over, what would they even be counterclaiming? The only way this would work is if it's believed that Monkey just got lucky with Blarg and isn't being sincere with the rest. That's a huge leap in logic.
Why would any other investigative role jump out to play the clown in a thunderdome when it's possible Monkey is town?
probably would depend on who's claiming, how they're doing it, etc
I'd refer to Darryl's post, though
No way, I do that all the time.
why would hey_monkey be town if there's an actual cop somewhere, hiding?
and ofc, why would scum_monkey claim if she knows there's a real cop due to Miller, etc etc
timetokill
Banned
Let's say you're already viewed as suspicious by town, but you're the real town cop. If you claim now, it's going to be you vs monkey, who is beloved by town. So you get lynched, town loses their cop, etc.
Imagine the cop is achors, or maybe it's Palmer, who is now stuck because he claimed vanilla town already and would be understandably viewed suspiciously if he changed that claim under these circumstances.
Imagine the cop is achors, or maybe it's Palmer, who is now stuck because he claimed vanilla town already and would be understandably viewed suspiciously if he changed that claim under these circumstances.
hey_monkey
Banned
you are living in fantasy land on this one, dude. more later as I catch up but I just saw this and laughed. oh, if only.
isaacnukem
Member
Why me?
isaacnukem
Member
Suspected by who? I'm the first to float the idea that you might be scum but I'm not the only one. This kind of vindictive attitude doesn't really help anybody.
BlackBuzzard
Banned
Oh sorry i didn't see that...
No wait a fucking second i asked you for flavor like
-WAMD
-Me
-Palmer
-Swamped
Which guess what you still haven't given us and there is no reason for you to hide this if you are vanilla like you claim to be.
hey_monkey
Banned
I just want to address these, which I see as points I particularly want to respond to. First, there's been a lot of this idea that Blargonaut would have been the primary target today and I'm not sure where that's coming from. Suspicious? Sure. But he wasn't the first one to start pushing Palmer or the only one to speak in favor of Swamped. If someone had just wanted to take him down, all the same reasons would have applied... well, to me. So again, this idea that if Blarg and I or Blarg and I and Sky are a team hinges on this part - why would Blarg be the sacrifice?
It's not genius. It's risky and convoluted. Too many parts that could fall apart. Too many unknowns who could counterclaim. Hell, some scum could have counterclaimed BP. Why not?! It's role madness! If they'd been more consistent than Sky, who did have a very strong behavioral change d1 to d2, they might have pulled it off, too. But god, we're just flinging darts here. So yeah, I mean, I'm not dumb. I'm far from dumb. But this twisty gambit you've created is really dumb for someone to try to pull in their second game of mafia. And in this configuration, with Swamped as another scum, it's really beyond belief for me to be the engineer driving the whole thing and sacrificing Blarg.
Don't get it twisted. I'm not important to town any longer as anything but a townie. A vote and an investigator. I'm okay with dying. It's not me that matters, but town. But you're damned right I have a problem with being sacrificed because you produced some weird conspiracy theory and would like to test it for funsies while we let an admitted killer hang out for another night. In what universe is that a good idea!?
Maybe this is the kind of thing that's normal. Anime was pretty typical and even Arkham, the only role madness game I've seen, got weird but not so weird as you're suggesting. But honestly, I don't think so. I don't think gambits with this much potential for horrible failure are common because it would be a terrible idea.
Here's the thing. You don't have to flip me as a test to see if I'm town. You can actually just watch what I do, how I act, if I'm shifty, sus out my motivations... just as you would if there were no PRs in play here. You can always kill me. I don't know where you get the idea that I'm unkillable. I'm beloved by town? Fuck's sake, man. I'm apparently wishy-washy and I have weird interactions and I'm just strange. And that's if people actually read my posts. Some folks don't. In another day you could probably just turbo me with people who think I'm weird. But if I'm right, why on earth would you want me to die? If I'm town, what do we gain from lynching me?
I have a feeling this probably says more about you than you think it says about me, but maybe not.
timetokill said:
THIS we can sort of agree on. I can definitely understand why another cop or similar role who had shots left wouldn't claim so we shouldn't hang it on that. What we do have is Blarg who has ADMITTED to killing a townie who was NOT a loose end in this game. Why are you okay with that? Natiko was helping flush out scum. Now he's gone.
Yeah, I just don't see what scum-me would gain by taking such a monster risk.
You're not the first to float the idea that I'm scum. That would have been either Swamped or Dragonz way back on d1. Sorry. And you've been on several lists from several people since you were calling for Palmer's actual blood d1. I dunno how y'all do things where you played before, but that seems to be less of an acceptable move here. In my eyes, since you've been actually participating more, you're less in my suspicions, but yeah, latching onto this weird theory doesn't exactly paint you in the best light so far as I'm concerned. All I'm saying is, if I get killed and flip exactly what I claimed, maybe look at the folks who decided I was scum and should be killed over a neutral killer who doesn't have town's best interests in mind.
hey_monkey
Banned
He's only at six. Should be fine for now. I do want to hear what else he has to say. I don't see any reason not to, at least, though grains of salt and all.
isaacnukem
Member
@hey_monkey, the idea I was referring to was not solely that you might be scum, but you cooked up the cop thing as scum. I said I had a gut feeling about you earlier than that, but I wasn't referring to that.
hey_monkey
Banned
Either way. This makes me tired and I'm not gonna do rounds in defense about it. Do your thing, dudes.
isaacnukem
Member
It's not like I'm rooting for your lynch if you read my posts.