[Celine]

"I suppose I could give you a list of the technical specs. I believe you would like that, but I won't for a simple reason; they really don't matter. The time when horsepower alone made an important difference is over. "

[Speevy]

Still, that's not really what most people call "fine." Theirs is a brute force method of taking the market by sheer economic power.

You mean releasing a console that can support the entire console development community?

Yeah, glad we're out of that mess.

[Thunder Monkey]

Collectively, Sony and MS have lost ~5 billion dollars this generation. Last generation, they lost ~1 billion dollars. Combined, Sony + MS have lost ~6 billion dollars in gaming over the last decade. It should be noted that last generation, Sony made some money (more than canceled out by MS), while this generation, MS is likely to break even soon (while Sony has lost an enormous amount of money). Still, that's not really what most people call "fine." Theirs is a brute force method of taking the market by sheer economic power.

I...

Hmmm... how should I put this...

There's a part of me that's perfectly okay with companies going bankrupt trying to win me over. It's like this weird kind of corporate Schadenfreude.

[Instro]

Despite coming in "last" in terms of numbers of systems sold, Nintendo was still more profitable on the Gamecube than either the PS2 or XBox, right? What have their profits been like this generation?

IIRC they were more profitable last gen although Im not exactly sure if that was mostly due to the GBA rather than the Gamecube.

[IrishNinja]

i'm sorry man but i'm not 8 anymore, i don't want that kiddy shit.

[IMG]http://i51.************/2wn32w8.jpg[/IMG]

the irony of bashing "kiddie shit" with kid cuisine in a nintendo topic is that both are heavily tied to penguins. masterfully played, gravijers.

[The Dutch Slayer]

You take a loss at the beginning and recuperate not long after, and add to it software sales too. Sony and MS are doing just fine, I actually want to get a Wii but it looked like crap on my friend's Sony Bravia, so that deterred me a little.

Sony almost gone under because of the billions of cost for the playstation brand in 2008 so I think nintendo is playing it smart.
And also for nintendo the game devision is the only way to make money.
For Sony and MS they can get money from different parts of the company.

[GrotesqueBeauty]

NES > Anything else at the time it released
SNES > Genesis
N64 > PS1
Gamecube > PS2

So one generation where they have the most modest visuals of the bunch suddenly means Nintendo "doesn't embrace graphics"? And this is coming right in the midst if them releasing a system that references its visuals in its very name.

[XPE]

Despite coming in "last" in terms of numbers of systems sold, Nintendo was still more profitable on the Gamecube than either the PS2 or XBox, right? What have their profits been like this generation?

More profitable than 150 million ps2's, I find that to be highly unlikely

Nintendo have released powerful consoles with the n64 and gamecube and never got any where.

And look at the 3DS while the launch games are nothing mind blowing there are game in the pipe line that show its a very capable machine.

Just because Nintendo have released ONE under powered console do not take it as a trend !!!!!!

[_Alkaline_]

Er, they did exactly that from the NES till the Wii.

[jump_button]

PS1 vs N64? its not like they didnt try it they just doing what best for them to bad 3rd partys are to lazy or set some B team to make games for Wii

[Thunder Monkey]

NES > Anything else at the time it released SNES > Genesis N64 > PS1 Gamecube > PS2 So one generation where they have the most modest visuals of the bunch suddenly means Nintendo "doesn't embrace graphics"? And this is coming right in the midst if them releasing a system that references its visuals in its very name.

I'd argue that the NES when it launched could have had more oomph than it did. And the CPU in the SNES was really lacking. It's VPU or whatever they were calling it was pretty damn powerful and expandable.

The N64 generation might have had great games, but I'd honestly just rather forget it. Especially the 3D. All around nasty shit.

I'll give you the GCN. Interesting piece of hardware that one. I still think devs didn't overall get a fraction out of it that they could have. Especially with the additions in the Wii.

[KenOD]

I have to admit, I would like Nintendo to release their own Scurvy Box 360 for the next generation. I'm fine with the Wii though, I'm playing a PS2 game right now and don't mind the quality. All I really want is more space on game so that they can do more. Game mechanic and world wise, not Kojima fill 40 GB worth of music on it and say I filled it with my vision.

That said with the graphics, I wish companies would actually use what graphic abilities they do have on Nintendo hardware. Wii can do look better then it has, as could the Gamecube obviously, yet it rarely has. Just sad.

[AniHawk]

More profitable than 150 million ps2's, I find that to be highly unlikely

yeah, the 'gamecube era' was really the 'gba plus the gamecube was profitable too so i guess there's that era'

[Caramello]

Well Masahiro Sakurai has just sort of confirmed his interest in HD game development on his twitter account in a cryptic way, "I'd like to try HD at some point. I wonder if I'll get the opportunity?"

http://www.andriasang.com/e/blog/201...kurai_hd_game/

I'm sure he knows exactly what Nintendo are doing with their next system, whether his comment was hinting at something or not though remains to be seen.

And yes I know HD in the next Nintendo console is 99% guaranteed.

[Gravijah]

The N64 generation might have had great games, but I'd honestly just rather forget it. Especially the 3D. All around nasty shit.

shut up. i will hear no more.

[Mr_Moogle]

I cant understand why Sony and Microsoft dont adopt a more similar business model to Nintendo. I can only imagine pushing hardware limits, has a knock on effect and helps Sony sell its other products (Tvs, bluray etc). Not sure whats in it for Microsoft.

[Frank "Trashman" Reynolds]

They would have to create new hardware to push graphics technology. Nintendo's current strategy allowed them to resale their last gen hardware a second time for a huge profit. Not to mention hardware doesn't really matter to them. People will go to the console for the games regardless of the technology. Guess I can't blame them since it works.

[Thunder Monkey]

shut up. i will hear no more.

I loved Mischief Makers though.

That has to account for something.

I forgot all about 3D games of the N64 gen right around 9/9/99.

Sorry my little Raichu.

[sonicmj1]

I cant understand why Sony and Microsoft dont adopt a more similar business model to Nintendo. I can only imagine pushing hardware limits, has a kock on effect and helps Sony sell its other products (Tvs, bluray etc). Not sure whats in it for Microsoft.

Microsoft is using the console as a Trojan horse to get Xbox Live into the living room. They're getting a lot of revenue from that service nowadays. They want to be the one providing digital entertainment to the TV and getting paid for it. That's why they're expanding so aggressively into non-gaming things.

[NinjaTehFish]

Not really. The consoles were just really unappealing. Both the N64 and Gamecube were "all about fun, nothing but the games!" If I had a quarter for every time Nintendo said something to that end over the last 20 years, I'd have a bunch of quarters.

I lol'd 'cos that concept is fully realized with the Wii.......And boy did it pay off.

[Frank "Trashman" Reynolds]

I cant understand why Sony and Microsoft dont adopt a more similar business model to Nintendo. I can only imagine pushing hardware limits, has a kock on effect and helps Sony sell its other products (Tvs, bluray etc). Not sure whats in it for Microsoft.

Microsoft won't be successful unless they attract 3rd party developers. Their 1st party stuff is pretty good, but lets be honest... It doesn't have the pull that Nintendo does in that area. Now lets look at the Wii and 3rd party success on the system... Yeah, I think MS is on the right track. They just need to keep keep appealing to 3rd parties with ease of development and tech. Keep pushing technology (Xbox Live) that Sony and Nintendo won't be able to catch up on. They are doing fine.

[nyong]

yeah, the 'gamecube era' was really the 'gba plus the gamecube was profitable too so i guess there's that era'

I can't find a source anywhere. :/

I do remember reading this, though. At the very least, I know that Nintendo had stated that the Gamecube was profitable for them. It wasn't a failure by any means, despite selling even fewer systems than the N64.

[zoukka]

They pushed cutting-edge graphics in the past.
They might do it again in the future, if they see it profitable.

I truly hope they never will.

[Medalion]

They pushed cutting-edge graphics in the past. They might do it again in the future, if they see it profitable. I truly hope they never will.

[RagnarokX]

Not really. The consoles were just really unappealing. Both the N64 and Gamecube were "all about fun, nothing but the games!" If I had a quarter for every time Nintendo said something to that end over the last 20 years, I'd have a bunch of quarters.

Both N64 and Gamecube were also more powerful than their competitors. N64 alienated developers due to cartridge costs, and Gamecube was a mix of bad marketing and developers' self-fulfilling prophecy regarding games only selling on Sony products.

[Mr_Brit]

They pushed cutting-edge graphics in the past. They might do it again in the future, if they see it profitable. I truly hope they never will.

So you willingly want Nintendo to never deliver non pathetic graphics even if they can do so whilst maintaining high profitability?

[Thunder Monkey]

They pushed cutting-edge graphics in the past. They might do it again in the future, if they see it profitable. I truly hope they never will.

The majority of their recent games have higher quality art assets than are necessary. They're already doing half the work of HD development.

They are terrific modellers making models look like they are truly high polygon when they're really not. Or at least some of their studios are.

I don't see Nintendo hurting in the move to HD. They don't have to go balls out with all the bells and whistles. They already make gorgeous games. They'll just make them in HD.

[AniHawk]

It wasn't a failure by any means, despite selling even fewer systems than the N64.

the gamecube was a failure by many means. sure it made a profit, but they sold less systems than ever before and less software than ever before.

[Sophia]

Both N64 and Gamecube were also more powerful than their competitors. N64 alienated developers due to cartridge costs, and Gamecube was a mix of bad marketing and developers' self-fulfilling prophecy regarding games only selling on Sony products.

Bad marketing was an understatement. Everyone regarded it as a kids system here. At least the N64 had the distinction of being the system with awesome multiplayer.

[zoukka]

So you willingly want Nintendo to never deliver non pathetic graphics even if they can do so whilst maintaining high profitability?

Your taste is the only pathetic thing here. Nintendo 1st party games on Wii age better than most HD games today.

[Kilrogg]

They realized graphics aren't what most people want, care, or in some cases notice, especially if better graphics imply more expensive hardware and software. Put another way, they also realized that graphics pretty much reached that "good enough" point where people don't really notice further improvements and pretty much any gameplay idea is feasible without having to make the graphics too simplistic.

There's really nothing more to it, it's just business common sense: entertainment is largely independent from technological refinement.

[Celine]

I'd argue that the NES when it launched could have had more oomph than it did. And the CPU in the SNES was really lacking. It's VPU or whatever they were calling it was pretty damn powerful and expandable. The N64 generation might have had great games, but I'd honestly just rather forget it. Especially the 3D. All around nasty shit. I'll give you the GCN. Interesting piece of hardware that one. I still think devs didn't overall get a fraction out of it that they could have. Especially with the additions in the Wii.

It's because the way Nintendo usually produced more fancy graphics than competition was by releasing the system 1/2 years after the main competitors and cutting features that they didn't consider irremovable.

That line of thinking was at the base of Nintendo declining from NES to Wii.

[Frank "Trashman" Reynolds]

Your taste is the only pathetic thing here. Nintendo 1st party games on Wii age better than most HD games today.

lol

[XPE]

the gamecube was a failure by many means. sure it made a profit, but they sold less systems than ever before and less software than ever before.

And it could be said that the failure of the gamecube lead to the underpowered wii, lower profits mean lower R&D for the wii.

[[Nintex]]

Well Masahiro Sakurai has just sort of confirmed his interest in HD game development on his twitter account in a cryptic way, "I'd like to try HD at some point. I wonder if I'll get the opportunity?" http://www.andriasang.com/e/blog/201...kurai_hd_game/ I'm sure he knows exactly what Nintendo are doing with their next system, whether his comment was hinting at something or not though remains to be seen. And yes I know HD in the next Nintendo console is 99% guaranteed.

Yeah it was pretty obvious what Sakurai was working on. He starts a studio with Nintendo to work on 'something' that Nintendo 'couldn't do'. Comes out 2 years later with a Kid Icarus game with Star Fox gameplay? Yeah, something is fishy.

[Foffy]

Well Masahiro Sakurai has just sort of confirmed his interest in HD game development on his twitter account in a cryptic way, "I'd like to try HD at some point. I wonder if I'll get the opportunity?" http://www.andriasang.com/e/blog/201...kurai_hd_game/ I'm sure he knows exactly what Nintendo are doing with their next system, whether his comment was hinting at something or not though remains to be seen. And yes I know HD in the next Nintendo console is 99% guaranteed.

That's pretty interesting. Though, considering it's from Sakurai, he would indeed have insider knowledge with what Nintendo's doing. Especially considering he was the first person outside of Nintendo internally to see the 3DS.

I hope this doesn't fuel up Wii2 rumors for E3 this year. :P

[confuziz]

lol

What an intelligent response. He's right on his statement though (mostly).

[Captain Chaos]

Because they like money

[ChronicleX]

They pushed cutting-edge graphics in the past. They might do it again in the future, if they see it profitable. I truly hope they never will.

While dumbfucks exist that are willing to pay $20 for a rom dump they have no reason to invest in cutting edge technology, just technology powerful enough to play the 20 year old game.

[Nessus]

I actually want to get a Wii but it looked like crap on my friend's Sony Bravia, so that deterred me a little.

There's a good chance your friend didn't have it hooked up properly.

First you need Wii component cables.

Then you need to switch the system to widescreen.

THEN you actually have to switch the Wii's output in the system menu to 480p; the console will still work, and will still look better than it does using composite cables while the console is still set to 480i, so a lot of people aren't even aware they have to manually switch it to 480p (I didn't even realize this until over a year of having it set to 480i).

Obviously even with this it still won't look as good as a PS3 or 360 on an HDTV, but I noticed a huge difference in the richness of colour and the sharpness.

Some people don't like the increased sharpness on Wii games on an HDTV; it's true you can see the pixels much more easily. Personally I prefer sharpness.

[szaromir]

I cant understand why Sony and Microsoft dont adopt a more similar business model to Nintendo. I can only imagine pushing hardware limits, has a kock on effect and helps Sony sell its other products (Tvs, bluray etc). Not sure whats in it for Microsoft.

They already did. 360 is five years old and Kinect is your next gen platform for the time being. When Gamecube was five years old, Nintendo attached Wiimote to it and rebranded it as a new platform. In a way it's a very similar situation.

[Thunder Monkey]

While dumbfucks exist that are willing to pay $20 for a rom dump they have no reason to invest in cutting edge technology, just technology powerful enough to play the 20 year old game.

Now that's rude sir and I don't like it.

I've paid too much for too many ROM dumps for you to be insulting my persons.

[Mr_Moogle]

And yes I know HD in the next Nintendo console is 99% guaranteed.

I would say HD is 100% guaranteed. But I wouldnt take this as Nintendo getting back into the hardware race. They will always try to sell their hardware at a profit on day one.

[Frank "Trashman" Reynolds]

What an intelligent response. He's right on his statement though (mostly).

lol

Nintendo might not have great hardware, but the games age better! I don't even know what the hell that is supposed mean. Explain this one to me. How does a Nintendo game age better than another similar quality game THAT IS pushing tech with excellent visuals, art style, and gameplay? Because Nintendo repackaged a Gamecube the games are aging better? Sounds more like an excuse for Nintendo fans.

What if Nintendo was pushing the hardware tech? Would their games suddenly not age as well?

[[Nintex]]

Because they like money

True but I believe someone on GAF puts it this way: "Nintendo doesn't hate graphics, they hate expensive graphics". Yet, they could've made a better system worth $250 in 2006 than what we eventually got. Something between GameCube and Xbox 360 would've been easily doable. According to rumors, IBM even offered Nintendo some better, faster and more modern CPU options than the turbo charged GameCube. ATi/AMD also had some other parts that they could've picked. Nintendo however wasn't interested.

[Thunder Monkey]

lol Nintendo might not have great hardware, but the games age better! I don't even know what the hell that is supposed mean. Explain this one to me. How does a Nintendo game age better than another game pushing tech with excellent visuals, art style, and gameplay? Because Nintendo repackaged a Gamecube? Sounds more like an excuse for Nintendo fans. Games will age by the period, hardware, art / visuals, gameplay, and a whole host of other factors. Releasing last gen hardware in the current gen doesn't change that. What if Nintendo was pushing the hardware tech? Would their games suddenly not age as well?

Depends on the game. Something like Twilight Princess looked dated the day it released.

Wind Waker still holds up well with HD cel shaded titles... especially in HD... and SMG1 and 2 are of course technically not on par with PS3 or 360 platformers... but the differences aren't that big... especially when played in HD.

Nintendo's best designers do good work no matter the hardware. They'll just have more to play with when they get better tools.

[nyong]

the gamecube was a failure by many means. sure it made a profit, but they sold less systems than ever before and less software than ever before.

It wasn't as successful as it could have been, but it wasn't a failure. Staying profitable is the foremost goal of any business. Hypothetically, it wouldn't do a game company any good to sell 300 million units and not turn a profit. Sure their customers are happy, but it's a business failure...not to mention unsustainable.

[confuziz]

lol Nintendo might not have great hardware, but the games age better! I don't even know what the hell that is supposed mean. Explain this one to me. How does a Nintendo game age better than another similar quality game THAT IS pushing tech with excellent visuals, art style, and gameplay? Because Nintendo repackaged a Gamecube the games are aging better? Sounds more like an excuse for Nintendo fans. What if Nintendo was pushing the hardware tech? Would their games suddenly not age as well?

Technically speaking you are right. But it's not just about the hardware or the cutting edge graphics. It's also about the art style, gameplay and physics and what else it has to offer.

An other question, why do you think Half life 2 is still popular nowadays? Exactly.

[Mr_Brit]

Your taste is the only pathetic thing here. Nintendo 1st party games on Wii age better than most HD games today.

So you're a confirmed troll then. Thanks for clearing that up.

[Frank "Trashman" Reynolds]

They already did. 360 is five years old and Kinect is your next gen platform for the time being. When Gamecube was five years old, Nintendo attached Wiimote to it and rebranded it as a new platform. In a way it's a very similar situation.

Not exactly the same situations. The 360 was not last gen console tech when it launched. Unlike the Gamecube it doing very well at this point and software is continuing to do very well on the platform. Sony isn't exactly forcing MS' hand to jump head first into the next gen at this point, while consumers and 3rd parties continue to do well on the platform. If MS re-releases the 360 with slightly better graphics next gen then you might have a point.