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BlazingDarkness
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(02-19-2012, 03:54 PM)
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The original design for Dante was shit anyway, he looks like a member of Nickelback
Syril
Member
(02-19-2012, 03:54 PM)

Originally Posted by .JayZii

The entitlement in here is palpable. I'm palping it.

Yeah, how dare people express their likes and dislikes, who the fuck do they think they are?

Seriously, why are you even bothering with this thread if you're just going to insult everyone in it.
Haunted
(02-19-2012, 03:57 PM)
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Originally Posted by JasonMCG

[IMG][/IMG]

Not even going into the redesign, why is that model so ugly graphically?

The hair looks like shit, the clothing looks low poly and without textures loaded in, that chain(?) looks terrible. What the hell happened there.
JasonMCG
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(02-19-2012, 03:58 PM)
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Originally Posted by Dechaios

I think what most people have a problem with is that they needlessly redesigned a classic, awesome character. It would be like Nintendo unveiling this as their re-imagined Mario design.


In my eyes it's just a big fuck you to the fans because they felt they could change a classic character without thinking about whether or not they should. If they really wanted to use that design and not piss off fans, just make it a different game/character. No need to use your new design under the Devil May Cry brand name.

That's a fair argument and I get the anger. I just always thought white-hair Dante was the most generic "bad-ass" character in gaming. He always came off as a pretentious docuhe bag...I think thats why I avoided the series after the first game.

Originally Posted by Haunted

Not even going into the redesign, why is that model so ugly graphically?

The hair looks like shit, the clothing looks low poly and without textures loaded in, that chain(?) looks terrible. What the hell happened there.

Not that it's going to change your opinion on the modeling, but I took a screen from a YouTube movie - that's not an "official" screen.
Last edited by JasonMCG; 02-19-2012 at 04:00 PM.
MNC
(02-19-2012, 03:59 PM)
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Originally Posted by Dreamer RD



He already looked like shitty Seifer clone in 13, but this is complete garbage with some Organization XIII dude hair from KH.

WHAT. THE FUCK.
UrbanRats
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(02-19-2012, 04:25 PM)
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Originally Posted by Defuser

Because it's by Nona,the artist who created the atrocious character design for 2001.

Majority if have a choice would prefer shinkiro or even better..Hiroaki,his XI art is fabulous.

WTF, is that blood?!
Chacranajxy
Member
(02-19-2012, 04:26 PM)
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Originally Posted by UrbanRats

WTF, is that blood?!

Now I really like the character design.
.JayZii
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(02-19-2012, 04:30 PM)
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Originally Posted by Syril

Yeah, how dare people express their likes and dislikes, who the fuck do they think they are?

Seriously, why are you even bothering with this thread if you're just going to insult everyone in it.

I think they are people who are perfectly entitled to their opinion, even if it is clouded by nostalgia or a dislike of change in general.

I didn't think it was very insulting. Sorry about that.

It's not as though every poster in this thread is wrong, there are some really good examples in here. However, a lot of the subtext I am reading into people's posts is "When I was younger I liked this character, therefore it shouldn't change". Despite the fact that a lot of older character designs look shitty or just generic to begin with. These for example are not exactly the apex of design to begin with:






The best responses are the "yeah it was shitty, but that's what made it cool". How is that anything other than a childish aversion to change? Or just bad taste?

I just think its silly to expect every company to keep their characters looking exactly the same forever. Especially when said character is built around trends in pop culture or gaming of the time. Those have a built in shelf life. Not everybody has a Mario that is able to persist virtually unchanged throughout the years. Companies need to change characters to adapt to changing times and tastes. That's all.
Last edited by .JayZii; 02-19-2012 at 04:44 PM.
gunbo13
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(02-19-2012, 04:33 PM)
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These are shitty designs?

Whatever
EatChildren
Chico = Quiet
(02-19-2012, 04:36 PM)
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Originally Posted by Rez

Playing as an old man was BY FAR the most compelling thing about MGS4.

I haven't played Revelations, but the redesign look great. It's so nice to see them move away from generic white guy.

This x infinity. Most of the little joy I got out of MGS4 was the fact I was playing as old Snake. And even though I'm not huge on Assassin's Creed, I really enjoyed playing as old Ezio. I was never able to see the fuss behind Ezio in AC2 and Brotherhood, so much so that I was sure I didn't like him at all. But old Ezio? Hell yeah.

Give me more old characters.
Salvadora
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(02-19-2012, 04:36 PM)
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New Spyro brings a tear to my eye.
DXB-KNIGHT
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(02-19-2012, 04:39 PM)
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Dante > Danteiades
Kai Dracon
Writing a dinosaur space opera symphony
(02-19-2012, 04:39 PM)
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Originally Posted by gunbo13




These are shitty designs?

Whatever

Dante could be seen as generic in terms of concept. Yes, he's "one of those" pretty boy white hair dark hero guys with a smirk and big sword. The concept isn't very original.

So I guess some folk will find him dull based on his theme.

But I always though the execution of his concept was stylish and memorable, so, YMMV.
Berordn
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(02-19-2012, 04:42 PM)
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It's been mentioned, but no one posted it yet (probably out of respect), but Tiny Kong is the absolute worst redesign.

From this:


To this


Admittedly it was never a good design, but goddamn did they ruin what little they had to begin with.
Magnus
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(02-19-2012, 04:42 PM)
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Originally Posted by sn00zer

Still have no idea why people find the new design so offensive...looks like a rather tame progression, but Ive seen Sonic fans argue over the most inane things so I guess im the minority

Agreed. There's hardly a difference at all. I actually laughed out loud when I read that Generations was predicated on the idea of bringing together the two Sonics or something. Literally no one outside Internet message boards has actually perceived that Sonic has changed over the years.
thomasmahler
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(02-19-2012, 04:44 PM)
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Originally Posted by Dechaios

Actually Skyward Sword Link looks phenomenal. You should compare 2D art to 2D art if you're going to do this.

Skyward Swords Link looks like Michael Jackson.
Azure J
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(02-19-2012, 04:46 PM)
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Originally Posted by Kaijima

Dante could be seen as generic in terms of concept. Yes, he's "one of those" pretty boy white hair dark hero guys with a smirk and big sword. The concept isn't very original.

So I guess some folk will find him dull based on his theme.

But I always though the execution of his concept was stylish and memorable, so, YMMV.

This is pretty much the best explanation of both why other people might not jive with the character design and showing why classic Dante works I've seen on GAF. It mirrors my opinion completely.

Edit: We're hating on SS Link now? He totally looks like classic Link done in modern times.
qq more
Member
(02-19-2012, 04:48 PM)

Originally Posted by StayDead

How could you possible hate Athena's new art style? It's great. The first one of hers is just awful :/

Really? Because I hate her god damn stupid "moe" face so much.

And I don't even play these games.
Last edited by qq more; 02-19-2012 at 04:52 PM.
.JayZii
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(02-19-2012, 04:48 PM)
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Originally Posted by thomasmahler

Skyward Swords Link looks like Michael Jackson.

I don't see it.
TigerUppercut
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(02-19-2012, 04:55 PM)
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The best Dante design is from Nocturne.
olimpia84
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(02-19-2012, 04:56 PM)
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Originally Posted by Sylver

I'm Chris, no I'm Chris

Steroids propaganda.

This is definitely the biggest offender. Capcom pretty much ruined Chris Redfield.

Also, I went through most pages in this thread and I can't believe the characters from SFIV were not mentioned. I mean, Capcom gave them the same treatment as Chris from RE (Super steroids Hulk-like sized muscles)
Boney
Sucking and blowing™
(02-19-2012, 04:57 PM)
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Originally Posted by Haunted

Not even going into the redesign, why is that model so ugly graphically?

The hair looks like shit, the clothing looks low poly and without textures loaded in, that chain(?) looks terrible. What the hell happened there.

pc version
Gartooth
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(02-19-2012, 05:00 PM)
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Originally Posted by J-Rock

Banjo Kazooie



This is probably my favorite example of bad changes in character design. The original N64 Banjo-Kazooie games rank pretty high among my favorite 3D platformers, so it goes without saying that I'm attached to the series and characters. (I'm a bit biased here)

I know that Rare character design is either love it or hate it, but I really wish that a different approach would have been made with Nuts and Bolts.

It feels like the artists were so focused on making a unique new look for the characters, that a lot of the charm of the original designs were lost in the process.
Murkas
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(02-19-2012, 05:03 PM)
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I know it's not that bad but I just really prefer 2D Mario to the 3D that they've been using now. Even in 2D side scrolling Mario games they keep giving him the 3D look :(

At least there is still Paper Mario.
TheBigG753
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(02-19-2012, 05:10 PM)
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Ugh, awful. The visuals in that game were so awesome, but the character designs were hideous across the board.

Skyward Sword Link was so, so much improved.
Requeim
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(02-19-2012, 05:12 PM)
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Originally Posted by TigerUppercut

The best Dante design is from Nocturne.

I am fairly sure that's just Devil May Cry 2 Dante, any differences are probably down to him being rendered in the PS2 SMT engine (with that artstyle).
MoogleWizard
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(02-19-2012, 05:18 PM)
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Originally Posted by thomasmahler

Skyward Swords Link looks like Michael Jackson.



What did you say ?!?

He looks the same as always, just ... cuter.
vocab
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(02-19-2012, 05:25 PM)
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Originally Posted by TheBigG753



Ugh, awful. The visuals in that game were so awesome, but the character designs were hideous across the board.

Skyward Sword Link was so, so much improved.

LOOK HOW FUCKING SAD HE IS NOW
kunonabi
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(02-19-2012, 05:31 PM)
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Originally Posted by LeadenStride

I'm quite surprised how many in here like the new design for Chris. I think it's just unrealistic and atrocious.
On the other hand I guess it represents the way Capcom went with the series rather well. The old Chris wouldn't really fit the tight action of Resident Evil 5.

The new design is not unrealistic. He is buff but not to any unrealistic proportion. He isn't even as big as some of the guys at my gym who are in law enforcement/special forces.

RE1 Chris was a meathead. The only things he could do were take pounding and make fun of Rebecca. The game made it a point that he was too dumb for anything more complicated than shooting a gun.

CV Chris is by far is worst design. His limbs are too long and spindly and he looks Christian Slater.

RE5 Chris got in the gym, learned to type, and found a mission in life that drives him. It is by far more a more reasonable jump than the BS that happened to Leon in 4.

His best look is still his RE2 battle mode look from the the manual art.

The boulder thing was ridiculous though.
CorvoSol
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(02-19-2012, 05:34 PM)
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Now, I know that the guy who mentioned Warrior of Light was just joking, but I figured we could afford to dance that line anyway. (Not pictured: WoL's EX mode for his alts, his appearance in a gajillion FF1 remakes, his initial design for Dissidia, and the horrific noseless monster his CG became in Duodecim.)

SO

Here is our humble beginning:

And here is how that sprite looks in its most recent incarnation:

And here is some artwork of said character cerca the GBA era:

Here is the same character, in Knight Class, as we meet him in Dissidia:

Which resembles some ancient Amano art, apparently:

And some Nomura art:

Here are some alternative skins for said character. The middle one being the perfect compromise, IMO:

If anything upsets you, though, at least we can claim the change was for the better? Going from this:

To this:
?
And here's his most recent appearance!:
Last edited by CorvoSol; 02-19-2012 at 05:41 PM.
-Pyromaniac-
(02-19-2012, 05:35 PM)
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Originally Posted by EatChildren

This x infinity. Most of the little joy I got out of MGS4 was the fact I was playing as old Snake. And even though I'm not huge on Assassin's Creed, I really enjoyed playing as old Ezio. I was never able to see the fuss behind Ezio in AC2 and Brotherhood, so much so that I was sure I didn't like him at all. But old Ezio? Hell yeah.

Give me more old characters.

something about an old character doing these things in games is inherently badass. It's like the clint eastwood of games.
KittenMaster
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(02-19-2012, 05:40 PM)
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RE1 Chris was a meathead. The only things he could do were take pounding and make fun of Rebecca. The game made it a point that he was too dumb for anything more complicated than shooting a gun.

Pretty much. His character model was bulky compared to some other characters too.

I do have to say though, most of the hate for his bulkier design comes more from the fact that it comes off as Gears of War inspired and he wasn't originally that bulky for RE5.

Now, I know that the guy who mentioned Warrior of Light was just joking, but I figured we could afford to dance that line anyway. (Not pictured: WoL's EX mode for his alts, his appearance in a gajillion FF1 remakes, his initial design for Dissidia, and the horrific noseless monster his CG became in Duodecim.)

I don't own Duodecium, but I remember seeing a screenshot where WoL was sporting FF1 Fighter look and it looked awesome.

Plus it can be argued that his Dissidia default look is based on Knight rather than Fighter, heh.
Empty Space
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(02-19-2012, 05:40 PM)
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Originally Posted by CorvoSol

Now, I know that the guy who mentioned Warrior of Light was just joking, but I figured we could afford to dance that line anyway. (Not pictured: WoL's EX mode for his alts, his appearance in a gajillion FF1 remakes, his initial design for Dissidia, and the horrific noseless monster his CG became in Duodecim.)


Here is the same character, in Knight Class, as we meet him in Dissidia:

I can't find an example right now, but that character looks identical to Amano's art for the first Final Fantasy. So your issue is with the original art.
CorvoSol
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(02-19-2012, 05:43 PM)
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Originally Posted by KittenMaster

Pretty much. His character model was bulky compared to some other characters too.

I do have to say though, most of the hate for his bulkier design comes more from the fact that it comes off as Gears of War inspired and he wasn't originally that bulky for RE5.

I don't own Duodecium, but I remember seeing a screenshot where WoL was sporting FF1 Fighter look and it looked awesome.

Plus it can be argued that his Dissidia default look is based on Knight rather than Fighter, heh.

Originally Posted by Empty Space

I can't find an example right now, but that character looks identical to Amano's art for the first Final Fantasy. So your issue is with the original art.

Well, I think I should probably say I, myself, have no issue. I actually included the Amano art in my post that proves that he's had that design for like, ever, and the alt that lets you play as his sprite based self. It was more just to show the many different redesigns the guy's had over time. There were some pretty upset people when the first game rolled around, though, haha.

This is the only version of him that I would truly qualify as WTF:
Last edited by CorvoSol; 02-19-2012 at 05:45 PM.
KevinCow
Banned
(02-19-2012, 05:46 PM)
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I don't know what it is about that new Banjo picture that keeps getting quoted, but I thought he looked way better in the game. It's just not a good pose or something.
sixteen-bit
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(02-19-2012, 05:48 PM)
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Originally Posted by Totobeni

Vanessa Lewis

First AM2 created something so awesome


Then..


srsly AM2...What the hell?

This was the worst
KittenMaster
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(02-19-2012, 05:48 PM)
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Despite being such a huge FF1 fanboy, I don't take much issue with WoL's established design for modern games besides the fact that it makes him look extremely similar to Cecil at first glance.
Empty Space
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(02-19-2012, 05:48 PM)
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: / like half your images didn't load for me. You are right though he looks kind of bizarre anyways.
Syril
Member
(02-19-2012, 05:49 PM)

Originally Posted by CorvoSol

Well, I think I should probably say I, myself, have no issue. I actually included the Amano art in my post that proves that he's had that design for like, ever, and the alt that lets you play as his sprite based self. It was more just to show the many different redesigns the guy's had over time. There were some pretty upset people when the first game rolled around, though, haha.

I never thought the Light Warrior on the original box was supposed to be Fighter. I always figured he was more of a mascot for the Light Warriors in general, considering none of the classes looked remotely like him, even when they started redesigning them for the remakes.
.JayZii
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(02-19-2012, 05:50 PM)
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Originally Posted by KittenMaster

Despite being such a huge FF1 fanboy, I don't take much issue with WoL's established design for modern games besides the fact that it makes him look extremely similar to Cecil at first glance.

I spent about a minute trying to understand what you meant because I read WoL as "War of the Lions", the tactics remake.
CorvoSol
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(02-19-2012, 05:52 PM)
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Originally Posted by KittenMaster

Despite being such a huge FF1 fanboy, I don't take much issue with WoL's established design for modern games besides the fact that it makes him look extremely similar to Cecil at first glance.

I don't either, but there were people thinking he looked like freakin' Lenneth Valkyrie at first. The noseless one in Duodecim's opening is pretty annoying.

Originally Posted by Empty Space

: / like half your images didn't load for me. You are right though he looks kind of bizarre anyways.

Yeah, this business of images is still pretty iffy for me. I keep worrying one day I'm gonna wake up and have them all be something other than I posted . . .
Zophar
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(02-19-2012, 06:01 PM)
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Originally Posted by gunbo13




These are shitty designs?

Whatever

Here's the thing with Dante: His personality is 90% of who he is. Dante's an obnoxious, overgrown adolescent with a heart of gold. When he's older, it's kind of goofy (like in DMC1 and DMC4.) In DMC2 they tried to make him more mature (which means dark and brooding, apparently) but he wasn't Dante any longer. The design is a utility, really. As people have pointed out it's a generic character design, until he starts moving around and talking.

DMC3 was the sweetspot. It was, in my mind, the best incarnation of Dante to date. It's why I have a modicum of trust in DmC's design choices, and particularly why I like that concept art so much, because it shows who Dante is: He's a little bit sleazy, a little devil may care (what a thought!), etc.
LeleSocho
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(02-19-2012, 06:03 PM)
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Originally Posted by TheBigG753



Ugh, awful. The visuals in that game were so awesome, but the character designs were hideous across the board.

Skyward Sword Link was so, so much improved.

gunbo13
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(02-19-2012, 06:03 PM)
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Originally Posted by Zophar

DMC3 was the sweetspot. It was, in my mind, the best incarnation of Dante to date. It's why I have a modicum of trust in DmC's design choices, and particularly why I like that concept art so much, because it shows who Dante is: He's a little bit sleazy, a little devil may care (what a thought!), etc.

DMC3 is easily the most enjoyable Dante. However, his character design will turn off some. I personally have no issues with it.

EDIT:
Not including his alts, which are pretty good.
SousedLouse
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(02-19-2012, 06:04 PM)
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Originally Posted by GreggTheGrimReaper

The whole modern KOF design is weird and a huge step back for someone like me who stopped following the series when their artwork was still drawn by an untouchable master named Shinkiro.

Ah yes, good ol' Clooneyface:




Granted, that's not really fair, since even back then he could draw distinct faces, such as this:


And, in my opinion, he's only improved since then.


But let's not deify the man.

Besides, comparing Athena's older KOF designs to a redesign that was made to match an alternate version of Athena from a completely different genre (and one that was more or less 1-to-1 to boot!) seems like a sleazy bout of omission just to say that KOF's character designs have gone to rot. Like that shitty "What I Expected/What I Got" image meme. Yeah, she looks like a vague moeblob now. That's where she started from! Hell, she was one of the anime idol vanguard, right down to putting the first image song in a videogame during gameplay. Even in her first KOF stint she was more like a magical girl than an out-and-out martial artist; didn't even get any real heft to her moves until '96. Sometimes I think games in general could have done without Psycho Soldier, but then I think about what could have taken its place... yeesh

So it a broader sense it's going from this,


to this:



I know what you mean, though. Going from goofy idol Athena to chubby Athena is a bit weird. I kind of wish we had gotten an optional alt version of Athena down the line, like the sprites in her Neomax:


And I'm not posting all this because I think you're wrong or anything; you're entitled to your opinion. It's just that your post rubbed me the wrong way; I read it as something like, "man, I never played past a certain point, but based off this one image, I can tell that KOF went to shit in a big way". And if the series could be boiled down to that one pic, you'd have a solid point of reference. But the series has changed character illustrators and designers so often that I think it would be difficult to identify an iconic look for the whole series; individual games, sure, but not something that defines the whole series, or even specific arts.

I mean, it's true that Eisuke Ogura's work in KOF XIII is a pretty big shift from the older stuff.



But hell, even Shinkiro had a drastic shift in style from the beginning of his work in KOF to the end of it:



And since KOF '96, they've had multiple artists handle different aspects of the game. Take KOF 2003 for example. Falcoon did the main promotional work,


but Nona did most of the in-game portraits and artwork.


And up until KOF XII, they used the same basic sprite work from '96 to XI, so they haven't even really matched the artwork for quite some time (and I'm counting '99-2000 when I say this.)
So just cobbling together a few portraits and saying that they represent some golden age puts a really narrow focus on the art of the series.






And this is all coming from a guy who only played KOF '98 until 2006
Last edited by SousedLouse; 02-19-2012 at 11:41 PM.
GreggTheGrimReaper
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(02-19-2012, 06:04 PM)
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Originally Posted by BlazingDarkness

The original design for Dante was shit anyway, he looks like a member of Nickelback

New design looks like he's a member of Tokio Hotel.

Pick your poison.
Forkball
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(02-19-2012, 06:06 PM)
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Uh, new Lara still has massive knockers. Massive. Take a second to look at them. Yes, they are reduced from previous games, but if you think that's "realistic" based on what you've seen please tell me where you live so I can move near you immediately.
CorvoSol
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(02-19-2012, 06:08 PM)
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Originally Posted by GreggTheGrimReaper

New design looks like he's a member of Tokio Hotel.

Pick your poison.

I don't think Poison's design is all that changed, though.
Risk Breaker
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(02-19-2012, 06:23 PM)
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DMC1 and DMC2 Dante is the best Dante. The "he's "one of those" pretty boy white hair dark hero guys with a smirk and big sword" point is kinda lost when you don't say what other characters were like him BEFORE he existed.



Originally Posted by Forkball

Uh, new Lara still has massive knockers. Massive. Take a second to look at them. Yes, they are reduced from previous games, but if you think that's "realistic" based on what you've seen please tell me where you live so I can move near you immediately.

Uh, she doesn't?

Are these really "massive knockers" to you? o_O
stryker1138
Junior Member
(02-19-2012, 06:32 PM)
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Captain Jacob Keyes, Halo:CE (2001)


Captain Jacob Keyes, Halo:CEA (2011)

Made even worse by the fact that, like in Reach, he's inexplicably wearing a dress uniform.

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