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HylianTom
would totally do this old lady if his wife were guaranteed not to find out.
(02-19-2012, 08:37 PM)
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Originally Posted by AceBandage

BG&E and ED maybe.
Though I wouldn't count on ToS, because... it's Namco...

If it works out like I'm thinking it will, I'll just put my Wii and old games in sealed storage and do a once-per-generation marathon of old disc-based GameCube games. The end of Nintendo home console generations is usually a great time for this kind of thing, since releases tend to dry-up.
z0m3le
Junior Member
(02-19-2012, 08:39 PM)
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Originally Posted by bgassassin

IBM more than likely wouldn't start making a CPU "on a whim" like that. Realistically unless IBM shared IP ownership of Nintendo's design (which knowing Nintendo they won't), they wouldn't be able to farm it out to anyone else. That's how from what I understand PPEs were able to be used in Xenon, because IBM was a part owner in Cell's IP. As of now I don't really see the next three consoles having similar CPU architectures.

As for the GPU, they wouldn't just shrink an R700. I expect about the only thing the final GPU will have in common with the dev kit GPU would be the ALU count. However I wouldn't assume that method would be more expensive than using say an HD 7770 as the yields could end up being worse for the 7770. And while Nintendo wouldn't design it on their own, they wouldn't leave it completely to AMD either. Nintendo will be a part of how it gets customized. Also remember the console still needs to use memory so you can't completely eliminate that from the power draw. And "underclock it a little" is an understatement considering it's 1Ghz at stock. I see Nintendo going for more ALUs at a lower clock over fewer at a higher clock. It's also not guaranteed that just because Sony or MS might use GCN that it would be totally "off-the-shelf". They would at least make tweaks to it for the console.

AMD would design the GPU while for example IBM, NEC, GlobalFoundries, or TSMC would make the GPU. TSMC would be easily eliminated as a choice IMO due to how many customers they have to deal with. And the others are capable of making components at 32nm.

I wouldn't call it on a whim, businesses like theirs have to make investments, and having a base to start from is important, MS did originally use nearly off the shelf parts for the Xbox, and IBM knew that they would be coming to them soon for a new CPU based on newer technologies but without the unnecessary components that a computer cpu would need. It could of happened either way, but I doubt Nintendo would customize the cpu much at all.

Yeah, I know that it's a 1ghz gpu at stock, lowering it by 10% to 900mhz would give you lower TDP (which is all that really matters when we talk about console limits)

You could in fact remove ram power from the GPU's power draw, because you'd count the ram separately from the GPU as it will likely share a bus with the CPU, The point you are trying to make about AMD making a GPU from scratch doesn't make sense, that wasn't how the 360's gpu was created, and I doubt it will be how Wii U's GPU will be created, I mean your order is sort of tall for the current Nintendo, sure they will customize the chip, get certain features that they want, and cut out others, in the end it might not look like a HD7700 series, or even an HD6700 series, but it will likely start from one of those two.

40nm or 28nm makes the most sense for a GPU, over time the 28nm would of course be cheaper, and TSMC would have the capacity to fill far more orders as the year progresses, Wii U would be big business for them, and should be something they would be very interested in in the long run. Also even if you do get better yields at 40nm, you make more 28nm per process, so it's really hard to say which is better IMO, especially in 6 months. For Nintendo, with wattage, performance, and space for their architecture, I think 28nm is a no brainier, but I am not a TSMC customer, so maybe it does look grimmer than I've laid out.

The main problem i see with a 32nm chip, is you are designing a brand new chip, on a architecture AMD has never designed a GPU for, at least nothing like this, it would make much more sense to go with an existing design, that would of existed in some form even 2 years ago, when Nintendo would of been figuring out what they wanted.

In the end, this really doesn't matter, it will be powerful, and it will fit in the box without catching fire, and I trust Nintendo won't have any RROD issues either, thanks for arguing your points, I see where you are coming from, but I just am not sure I buy it, feel free to reply, I'll read it tonight when I get to work and reply when I can.
Übermatik
Member
(02-19-2012, 08:39 PM)
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Just want to clear this up, the Wii U WILL be more powerful than the 360... that's... really very obvious.
Rösti
Member
(02-19-2012, 08:40 PM)
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Originally Posted by Salvadora

I eagerly await long waits for the Gamecube VC.

I hope it's going to be region free, so we can play for example Homeland and Metroid Prime (NTSC-J version). I doubt it though, seeing Nintendo's current agenda regarding region locks.
AceBandage
Banned
(02-19-2012, 08:40 PM)
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Originally Posted by Ubermatik

Just want to clear this up, the Wii U WILL be more powerful than the 360... that's... really very obvious.

But Arkham told me it would be less powerful!

Originally Posted by Rösti

I hope it's going to be region free, so we can play for example Homeland and Metroid Prime (NTSC-J version). I doubt it though, seeing Nintendo's current agenda regarding region locks.



Of course it won't be region free...
None of the systems will be anymore.
Salvadora
Member
(02-19-2012, 08:41 PM)
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Originally Posted by Ubermatik

Just want to clear this up, the Wii U WILL be more powerful than the 360... that's... really very obvious.

I'd like it to be substantially more powerful.
Übermatik
Member
(02-19-2012, 08:43 PM)
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Originally Posted by AceBandage

But Arkham told me it would be less powerful!

You stay away from that Arkam!
Rösti
Member
(02-19-2012, 08:47 PM)
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Originally Posted by AceBandage

Of course it won't be region free...
None of the systems will be anymore.

Yeah, and it's problematic for those who don't want to utilize reverse engineering on their consoles. I purchased an NTSC-J Wii when 大乱闘スマッシュブラザーズX (Brawl) launched, and it's the only game I have purchased for that system. If Wii would have been region free, at least I could have saved some money by only purchasing the game.
bgassassin
Member
(02-19-2012, 09:39 PM)
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Originally Posted by z0m3le

I wouldn't call it on a whim, businesses like theirs have to make investments, and having a base to start from is important, MS did originally use nearly off the shelf parts for the Xbox, and IBM knew that they would be coming to them soon for a new CPU based on newer technologies but without the unnecessary components that a computer cpu would need. It could of happened either way, but I doubt Nintendo would customize the cpu much at all.

Yeah, I know that it's a 1ghz gpu at stock, lowering it by 10% to 900mhz would give you lower TDP (which is all that really matters when we talk about console limits)

You could in fact remove ram power from the GPU's power draw, because you'd count the ram separately from the GPU as it will likely share a bus with the CPU, The point you are trying to make about AMD making a GPU from scratch doesn't make sense, that wasn't how the 360's gpu was created, and I doubt it will be how Wii U's GPU will be created, I mean your order is sort of tall for the current Nintendo, sure they will customize the chip, get certain features that they want, and cut out others, in the end it might not look like a HD7700 series, or even an HD6700 series, but it will likely start from one of those two.

40nm or 28nm makes the most sense for a GPU, over time the 28nm would of course be cheaper, and TSMC would have the capacity to fill far more orders as the year progresses, Wii U would be big business for them, and should be something they would be very interested in in the long run. Also even if you do get better yields at 40nm, you make more 28nm per process, so it's really hard to say which is better IMO, especially in 6 months. For Nintendo, with wattage, performance, and space for their architecture, I think 28nm is a no brainier, but I am not a TSMC customer, so maybe it does look grimmer than I've laid out.

The main problem i see with a 32nm chip, is you are designing a brand new chip, on a architecture AMD has never designed a GPU for, at least nothing like this, it would make much more sense to go with an existing design, that would of existed in some form even 2 years ago, when Nintendo would of been figuring out what they wanted.

In the end, this really doesn't matter, it will be powerful, and it will fit in the box without catching fire, and I trust Nintendo won't have any RROD issues either, thanks for arguing your points, I see where you are coming from, but I just am not sure I buy it, feel free to reply, I'll read it tonight when I get to work and reply when I can.

There's a difference in having a base where the CPU is based on an existing line of their processors, which is what normally happens, and a base where they already started making something for consoles before getting any input from what the console makers might want. The latter doesn't happen nor needs to since the console CPU is going to be based on existing architecture. That's an unnecessary cost to start something in general and then modify when you can just modify or build something based on what you already have. And I couldn't disagree more with Nintendo not doing much customization to the CPU. All signs point to the CPU being based on POWER7. That chip itself is too big and hot for a console. They are either going to heavily modify it to work in that case, or what is most likely to happen is build something from the ground up based on POWER7 since the POWER7 CPU is only made with eight cores.

It's not just about lowering clocks as I expect Nintendo to be picky about the clock speeds to the point where I see them sticking with multiples like with GC/Wii. And considering the heat the GPU puts out, I'd see them focusing on much lower clocks.

And the reason why I said you can't ignore the RAM's power draw is because you have to look at the console's total TDP so it still has to be factored in.

Actually the 360 wasn't quite like that. It used unified shaders, but apparently was not VLIW-based like future ATi GPUs. So from what I recall that wasn't based on anything in existence. With Wii U's GPU, I doubt it starts from those two unless when you say 6700 you mean Barts instead of Juniper since they could have just put a Juniper in the dev kit if that were the case. But referring back to Xenos, it's not guaranteed that Wii U's GPU will be VLIW-based either essentially eliminating all Radeon lines from consideration. AMD said themselves that VLIW5 saw poorer utilization once DX10 came into existence. We could very well see something not VLIW-based with the GPU to overcome that issue.

IMO 40nm or 28nm makes the most sense if you are looking at it from a PC perspective. This isn't something with interchangeable components so it doesn't have to have those "standard" processes. At the same time using TSMC doesn't sound like a Nintendo move for the reason I mentioned before. That to me would have played into why they used NEC the last two gens to make their GPUs. As for your argument against using 32nm, I think it really underestimates AMD's capabilities. If they haven't done it before and in turn couldn't do it now, then I would question their ability as a processor maker. At the same time while looking up to see how old the 32nm process is, it is also considered in the "mainline" of process shrinks while 28nm isn't. 32nm is a more mature process than 28nm and still gets them the benefits of a much cooler GPU compared to the 55nm GPU in the dev kit.

But you are right though. In then end it will be powerful and won't blow up your house.
Last edited by bgassassin; 02-19-2012 at 09:44 PM.
Log4Girlz
I recently went to my friends house to check out his wii. I was generally impressed. It was larger than I expected though.
(02-19-2012, 09:56 PM)
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I'm in 11th place in this thread...unacceptable.

Ok, so who else thinks that you will swipe the screen for sword slashes in the next Zelda?
Rösti
Member
(02-19-2012, 09:57 PM)
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The outline of Tokyo Game Show 2012 was announced on the 17th of February, and Impress Watch has an article about it: http://game.watch.impress.co.jp/docs...17_512835.html

In the last paragraph something about Wii U is mentioned, and it looks like they (CESA etc.) are excited for it. Google Translate only turned up Engrish:

As the overall schedule, in May announced the main visual, announced in July overview exhibition, exhibitors, and in August will be held in September and stage events such as the announcement is made. At the same time last year and have attention and smartphones social games, many fans were packed into 試遊 of PlayStation Vita. This year, "Wii U" new game machine Nintendo are stationary due to be launched before the end of the year is ahead of time but subtle. Or show how the deployment was looking forward to that place.

Original:

全体のスケジュールとしては、5月にはメインビジュアルを発表、7月には展示会概要、出展社の発表、8月にはイベントステージなどの告知が行なわれ9月に開催と なる。昨年はソーシャルゲームとスマートフォンが注目を集めると同時に、PlayStation Vitaの試遊に多くのゲームファンが詰めかけた。今年は、時期は微妙だが任天堂が年内の発売を予定している新型据え置き型ゲーム機「Wii U」が控えている。どういった展開を見せるかが楽しみなところだ。

Nintendo usually doesn't exhibit at TGS, they haven't even attended since 2005 I believe. But perhaps this year is different. Does anyone wanna translate this?
AceBandage
Banned
(02-19-2012, 09:59 PM)
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They have "attended" TGS the last couple of years, though never in any meaningful way. Rather, they hold their own event at the same time.
TheCongressman1
Member
(02-19-2012, 10:01 PM)
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Originally Posted by Log4Girlz

I'm in 11th place in this thread...unacceptable.

Ok, so who else thinks that you will swipe the screen for sword slashes in the next Zelda?

Ick, That sounds awful. Motion or traditional control please.
teeny
Member
(02-19-2012, 10:04 PM)
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Originally Posted by Log4Girlz

I'm in 11th place in this thread...unacceptable.

Ok, so who else thinks that you will swipe the screen for sword slashes in the next Zelda?

I hope not.

Personally, I hope the bottom screen shows a top down version of whatever room you are in, and allows you to trace paths for certain items and puzzles, DS style.
Übermatik
Member
(02-19-2012, 10:07 PM)
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Originally Posted by Rösti

As the overall schedule, in May announced the main visual, announced in July overview exhibition, exhibitors, and in August will be held in September and stage events such as the announcement is made. At the same time last year and have attention and smartphones social games, many fans were packed into 試遊 of PlayStation Vita. This year, "Wii U" new game machine Nintendo are stationary due to be launched before the end of the year is ahead of time but subtle. Or show how the deployment was looking forward to that place.

Wii U in quotation marks? Name change confirmed.

It's actually pretty weird that they've done that... for what reason?
Log4Girlz
I recently went to my friends house to check out his wii. I was generally impressed. It was larger than I expected though.
(02-19-2012, 10:07 PM)
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Originally Posted by teeny

I hope not.

Personally, I hope the bottom screen shows a top down version of whatever room you are in, and allows you to trace paths for certain items and puzzles, DS style.

I'm hoping the screen shows a different time period, like if you're looking at the past, everything is pristine and beautiful, while the present is all decrepit. Then there's some time traveling mechanic to switch between times.
teeny
Member
(02-19-2012, 10:10 PM)
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Originally Posted by Log4Girlz

I'm hoping the screen shows a different time period, like if you're looking at the past, everything is pristine and beautiful, while the present is all decrepit. Then there's some time traveling mechanic to switch between times.

Oh yes :D To be honest, as long as they use it for any kind of dual world / perspective, I will be happy.

Shit, now Im going to be disappointed if the next Zelda doesnt incorporate this.
-Pyromaniac-
(02-19-2012, 10:10 PM)
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Swiping the screen will be like infinity blade on the ipad.
bgassassin
Member
(02-19-2012, 10:13 PM)
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Originally Posted by Log4Girlz

I'm hoping the screen shows a different time period, like if you're looking at the past, everything is pristine and beautiful, while the present is all decrepit. Then there's some time traveling mechanic to switch between times.

How about the screen shows a different time being decrepit and will change to being beautiful once you've done what you are supposed to letting you know you made the right decision?
Log4Girlz
I recently went to my friends house to check out his wii. I was generally impressed. It was larger than I expected though.
(02-19-2012, 10:14 PM)
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Originally Posted by bgassassin

How about the screen shows a different time being decrepit and will change to being beautiful once you've done what you are supposed to letting you know you made the right decision?

Sure, they can play so many different ways.


But seriously you'll get a hud on the second screen and some swipe controls and that's it *sobs*
bgassassin
Member
(02-19-2012, 10:17 PM)
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Originally Posted by Log4Girlz

Sure, they can play so many different ways.


But seriously you'll get a hud on the second screen and some swipe controls and that's it *sobs*

Wiimote sword and Upad shield. Believe!
EloquentM
aka Mannny
(02-19-2012, 10:21 PM)
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I go on a couple of different forums and it's sort of disappointing when I see that the consensus seems to be that the wii U will be powered lower than the 360. It's sort of hilarious and disheartening at the same time.
shnord
Junior Member
(02-19-2012, 10:22 PM)
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The example of flicking throwing stars from the subscreen to the TV could be worked into Zelda. They'd modify the item to be more Zelda-y though.

Flick rupees at Tingle confirmed!!
bgassassin
Member
(02-19-2012, 10:26 PM)
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Better yet, they make a Zelda co-op and one you plays as Tingle and you have to survey the land and draw a map using the screen for your partner. And they have to trust the map you gave them. :P

Originally Posted by EloquentM

I go on a couple of different forums and it's sort of disappointing when I see that the consensus seems to be that the wii U will be powered lower than the 360. It's sort of hilarious and disheartening at the same time.

I find it totally hilarious. But that might be just me.
HylianTom
would totally do this old lady if his wife were guaranteed not to find out.
(02-19-2012, 10:28 PM)
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Originally Posted by bgassassin

Better yet, they make a Zelda co-op and one you plays as Tingle and you have to survey the land and draw a map using the screen for your partner. And they have to trust the map you gave them. :P

I find it totally hilarious. But that might be just me.

You might be joking about Tingle, but I loved the Tingle Tuner and celebrated heartily when I found that it worked with my Wii. I was happy to the point where I went onto eBay and bought a custom-colored GBA-SP, 90% because I wanted it to serve as my Tingle Tuner.
Log4Girlz
I recently went to my friends house to check out his wii. I was generally impressed. It was larger than I expected though.
(02-19-2012, 10:38 PM)
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Fi, Navy or Midna (your choice next time!) will be permanently on the second screen, constantly giving you advice and literally pointing shit out for you.
shnord
Junior Member
(02-19-2012, 10:43 PM)
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What if the other player drawing the map is actually creating the land in real-time? To justify this, there could be a dark shroud over the land (never been done before!) that you can't travel through, but it gets lifted wherever Tingle draws the map. So it's presented as if the land is already there and you're just revealing it, because actually creating the land would clearly be far too much power for Tingle...

...Or would it?


Not that I'm taking this seriously...

...Or am I?


I should end all my posts in cliffhangers...

...Or should I?


Originally Posted by HylianTom

You might be joking about Tingle, but I loved the Tingle Tuner and celebrated heartily when I found that it worked with my Wii. I was happy to the point where I went onto eBay and bought a custom-colored GBA-SP, 90% because I wanted it to serve as my Tingle Tuner.

Are you saying that it's a green GBA SP?

Originally Posted by Log4Girlz

Fi, Navy or Midna (your choice next time!) will be permanently on the second screen, constantly giving you advice and literally pointing shit out for you.

I could listen to Midna bitching at me right in my face all day.
Rösti
Member
(02-19-2012, 10:44 PM)
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Originally Posted by Log4Girlz

Fi, Navy or Midna (your choice next time!) will be permanently on the second screen, constantly giving you advice and literally pointing shit out for you.

"Master, the batteries in your Wii U Remote are nearly depleted."
Log4Girlz
I recently went to my friends house to check out his wii. I was generally impressed. It was larger than I expected though.
(02-19-2012, 10:50 PM)
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Originally Posted by Rösti

"Master, the batteries in your Wii U Remote are nearly depleted."

They will tap the screen and you will hear a "tap tap tap" constantly.
TunaLover
Member
(02-19-2012, 10:50 PM)
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I'm number 39, glad I'm not that obsesive =P
HylianTom
would totally do this old lady if his wife were guaranteed not to find out.
(02-19-2012, 10:53 PM)
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Originally Posted by shnord

Are you saying that it's a green GBA SP?

Nah. I got a black-and-gold one (Saints colors) with the ultra-bright screen and longer battery life (there's a guy who takes custom orders on eBay, combining any two colors you want in any configuration.. top/bottom, inside/outside) My old GBA-SP was in really rough shape, and I didn't want it to crap-out on me in the future, leaving me without a Tingle Tuner.

I was tempted to get a green one..
Rhod
Junior Member
(02-19-2012, 10:53 PM)
今年は、時期は微妙だが任天堂が年内の発売を予定している新型据え置き型ゲーム機「Wii U」が控えている。どういった展開を見せるかが楽しみなところだ。

It's been a difficult year (for them) but Nintendo is this year preparing/has been preparing to launch their new type game system Wii U. So, it should be fun to watch/see.
Log4Girlz
I recently went to my friends house to check out his wii. I was generally impressed. It was larger than I expected though.
(02-19-2012, 10:54 PM)
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Originally Posted by TunaLover

I'm number 39, glad I'm not that obsesive =P

I feel compelled to respond to you. Just a few more posts...
Hero of Legend
Member
(02-19-2012, 10:55 PM)
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Originally Posted by AceBandage

BG&E and ED maybe.
Though I wouldn't count on ToS, because... it's Namco...

Give me Symphonia HD on Wii U retail as a remaster, I'll grab it!

They'd never put both Symphonia 1 and 2 on one disc... would they? Nah... I'm just not sure if they did anything of the sort, but did they not put the remake of the GB game and a remake of Phantasia on one UMD?

My biggest wishlist as far as Tales goes; Symphonia 3 with a beefed up Monster Collecting aspect. Shame DOTNW didn't have Graces' budget, damn it looked so nice on the Wii. :'(
Lord Ghirahim
Member
(02-19-2012, 10:56 PM)
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Originally Posted by HylianTom

If it's more powerful than a 360, I'll be very, very satisfied.

I'll be disappointed if it can't run Samaritan in 720p. "5 times more powerful" (whatever that may mean) than 7-year-old consoles shouldn't be too much to ask.

Originally Posted by Rösti

I hope it's going to be region free, so we can play for example Homeland and Metroid Prime (NTSC-J version). I doubt it though, seeing Nintendo's current agenda regarding region locks.

Well, at least buying two systems gets you two controllers!
;//
guek
Member
(02-19-2012, 10:59 PM)
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How the hell am I number 8? I don't post that much...

We should have a countdown timer to GDC in the OP btw
Log4Girlz
I recently went to my friends house to check out his wii. I was generally impressed. It was larger than I expected though.
(02-19-2012, 11:01 PM)
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Originally Posted by guek

How the hell am I number 8? I don't post that much...

We should have a countdown timer to GDC in the OP btw

You don't post that much? Bwahahahaha.

Would be cool if you go into FPS mode (like to look around a room), the view would be in the second screen and you just move it around your room to look around the dungeon :D
Rösti
Member
(02-19-2012, 11:03 PM)
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Originally Posted by guek

How the hell am I number 8? I don't post that much...

We should have a countdown timer to GDC in the OP btw

For reference:
Last edited by Rösti; 02-19-2012 at 11:06 PM.
AzaK
Member
(02-19-2012, 11:03 PM)
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Originally Posted by bgassassin

I find it totally hilarious. But that might be just me.

Not just you. I've gotta laugh or else I'd have no hair left.
Wolfie5
Member
(02-19-2012, 11:05 PM)
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Originally Posted by guek

How the hell am I number 8? I don't post that much...

Yes, you do.

I hope in the next Zelda all advices and explanations will be on the small screen in real time, meaning you can move Link around while the obligatory "you found this insect for the 50th time and we want to tell you all about it".
Log4Girlz
I recently went to my friends house to check out his wii. I was generally impressed. It was larger than I expected though.
(02-19-2012, 11:06 PM)
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Originally Posted by Wolfie5

Yes, you do.

I hope in the next Zelda all advices and explanations will be on the small screen in real time, meaning you can move Link around while the obligatory "you found this insect for the 50th time and we want to tell you all about it".

You're going to get that message on both screens...you know that right?
bgassassin
Member
(02-19-2012, 11:06 PM)
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Originally Posted by TunaLover

I'm number 39, glad I'm not that obsesive =P

Yeah right. Just because you don't post as much doesn't mean you aren't obsessively viewing the boards as much as everyone else. :P

Originally Posted by Lord Ghirahim

I'll be disappointed if it can't run Samaritan in 720p. "5 times more powerful" (whatever that may mean) than 7-year-old consoles shouldn't be too much to ask.

Don't do that to yourself. Epic's "5x more than 360" isn't exactly what I would call "accurate" when looking at what the next consoles might achieve.
guek
Member
(02-19-2012, 11:08 PM)
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Originally Posted by Log4Girlz

You don't post that much? Bwahahahaha.

I think for me it feels like I don't post that much because I'll usually go pages and pages without posting anything and then post a ton in succession.
tsab
Member
(02-19-2012, 11:08 PM)
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Originally Posted by Log4Girlz

You're going to get that message on both screens...you know that right?

Nintendo would text it to your phone if they could... :D
IceDoesntHelp
Member
(02-19-2012, 11:09 PM)
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Originally Posted by guek

How the hell am I number 8? I don't post that much...

We should have a countdown timer to GDC in the OP btw

I forget how to find that out ;_;
bgassassin
Member
(02-19-2012, 11:11 PM)
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^ You have more posts than guek.

Originally Posted by guek

I think for me it feels like I don't post that much because I'll usually go pages and pages without posting anything and then post a ton in succession.

It's easy for them to add up though. My posting habits are the same way.
Wolfie5
Member
(02-19-2012, 11:11 PM)
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Originally Posted by Log4Girlz

You're going to get that message on both screens...you know that right?

Now I do. Noooooooo!!!
Rösti
Member
(02-19-2012, 11:13 PM)
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Originally Posted by IceDoesntHelp

I forget how to find that out ;_;

Here you go: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/misc.php...osted&t=459256
Last edited by Rösti; 02-19-2012 at 11:15 PM.
IceDoesntHelp
Member
(02-19-2012, 11:22 PM)
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Originally Posted by Rösti

Here you go: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/misc.php...osted&t=459256

Thank you very much senor (:
#7, a lot higher than I had expected.
-Pyromaniac-
(02-19-2012, 11:23 PM)
-Pyromaniac-'s Avatar
3rd is the one with the treasure chest mofos.

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