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Snakey
Member
(02-19-2012, 10:03 PM)
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Originally Posted by IntelliHeath

I apologized but I don't recalled you on neogaf during brawl era. I was lurker and waiting for my account to get approved.

I really hope that we get real solid rumors before we get the game.

I have been a member of NeoGAF since 2006 but I did not begin posting until last year.

The sites in which I posted my theories and Brawl speculation were GameFAQs and SmashBoards.

Also, there is actually a very notable rumor for Smash 4, its called "Smash Bros. Universe". It consists of leaked documents and artwork. They all originated from a Japanese image board called sylphys.

There was a hand-written list that supposedly mentioned all the newcomers in "Smash Universe".

The hand-written list came from the same person that posted the initial document and the future artwork.

The characters on the list are:
K. Rool
Ghirahim
Ridley
Krystal
Zoroark/Mewtwo (literally its undecided between those two characters)
Palutena
Little Mac
King Hippo
Saki
Shulk
Prince Sable (a character from a Japan-only Game Boy, entitled For the Frog the Bell Tolls)
Mega Man
Slime
Layton
Sonic (I don't know why Sonic is listed here considering he is a veteran)

The artwork that was posted was of Ridley, Slime, Zoroark, and King Hippo. There was also artwork posted for Toad and Tingle that had a giant red stamp over them. Unfortunately, since no one saved the artwork for Zoroark, King Hippo, Toad, and Tingle, those images are now lost, since the "leaker" decided to take down all of the images pertaining to Smash Bros. Universe.






There was also a document leak describing moveset ideas for five newcomers in Smash Bros. Universe:



The character paragraphs from top to bottom are:
K. Rool
Ghirahim
Krystal
Saki
Ridley

Here is also the initial document leak for this Smash Bros. Universe



Last edited by Snakey; 02-19-2012 at 10:38 PM.
Hot Coldman
Member
(02-19-2012, 10:04 PM)
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itt: WE BELIEVE ANYTHING, especially if it's from 4chan
Professor Beef
holds a doctorate in beef
(02-19-2012, 10:07 PM)
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Originally Posted by Green Scar

itt: WE BELIEVE ANYTHING, especially if it's from 4chan

Almost makes me wish 4chan would "leak" news about Legends 3.
Snakey
Member
(02-19-2012, 10:10 PM)
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Originally Posted by Green Scar

itt: WE BELIEVE ANYTHING, especially if it's from 4chan

I don't believe this rumor. Its just that IntelliHeath inquired about Smash 4 rumors and I provided. Also, the source for this rumor was not 4chan. It was a Japanese image board called sylphys. All of the documents and artwork came from the same person there.
IntelliHeath
As in "Heathcliff"
(02-19-2012, 10:16 PM)
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Originally Posted by Snakey

I have been a member of NeoGAF since 2006 but I did not begin posting until last year.

If it is full roster for SSB4 then I dislike the roster. I like half of the roster but I think they should add better characters than that such as Takamaru and Issac

I know I am biased.


Originally Posted by Snakey

I don't believe this rumor. Its just that IntelliHeath inquired about Smash 4 rumors and I provided. Also, the source for this rumor was not 4chan. It was a Japanese image board called sylphys. All of the documents and artwork came from the same person there.

I meant when it get close to release date and it is more likely to be real. Those things scream fake because there is no way workers would post it online and get themselves fired before they start the project.
Hot Coldman
Member
(02-19-2012, 10:20 PM)
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Originally Posted by Snakey

I don't believe this rumor. Its just that IntelliHeath inquired about Smash 4 rumors and I provided. Also, the source for this rumor was not 4chan. It was a Japanese image board called sylphys. All of the documents and artwork came from the same person there.

OK, but it was on /v/

Just sayin'

Anyway, I believe one shouldn't bother posting a rumour unless they actually believe it has some credibility. I would not say this has any credibility. True rumours at least has some basis on factual chance and/or a reputable source (the latter taking precedence over the former).
Snakey
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(02-19-2012, 10:30 PM)
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Originally Posted by Green Scar

OK, but it was on /v/

Just sayin'

Anyway, I believe one shouldn't bother posting a rumour unless they actually believe it has some credibility. I would not say this has any credibility. True rumours at least has some basis on factual chance and/or a reputable source (the latter taking precedence over the former).

The original source was not /v/ though, it actually reached SmashBoards before it hit /v/. Also, as I said earlier the images came out of sylphs, a Japanese image board.

Also, none of the Brawl leakers (except Serebii) were reputable. They were instead being taken seriously on their supposed "inside information" due to the fact that some of the things that they were saying were coming true (such a predicting Brawl would be delayed, talking about specific aspects of newcomer movesets before they were revealed on the Dojo).
Last edited by Snakey; 02-19-2012 at 10:43 PM.
IntelliHeath
As in "Heathcliff"
(02-19-2012, 10:54 PM)
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Originally Posted by Snakey

The original source was not /v/ though, it actually reached SmashBoards before it hit /v/. Also, as I said earlier the images came out of sylphs, a Japanese image board.

Also, none of the Brawl leakers (except Serebii) were reputable. They were instead being taken seriously on their supposed "inside information" due to the fact that some of the things that they were saying were coming true (such a predicting Brawl would be delayed, talking about specific aspects of newcomer movesets before they were revealed on the Dojo).

Eh, I know there are few reputable leakers but I don't remember some of their names but they got the information correct. One of them was MarkMan.
Snakey
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(02-19-2012, 11:03 PM)
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Originally Posted by IntelliHeath

Eh, I know there are few reputable leakers but I don't remember some of their names but they got the information correct. One of them was MarkMan.

FYI Markman was not one of the leakers I used to piece together Brawl's roster before release. However, I do think MarkMan was the one that looked at my roster and went "yep that's right".

It helped us to less the pain how disappointment it was with character selection. I had high exception and it blew me up. NEVER ONCE AGAIN.

I personally thought Brawl's roster was very, very good. The only three characters that I was disappointed about not being in were Ridley, Mewtwo, and Roy. If those three characters were in, Brawl's roster would have been perfect to me, and I probably would not even be following Smash 4 right now.
IntelliHeath
As in "Heathcliff"
(02-19-2012, 11:07 PM)
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Originally Posted by Snakey

FYI Markman was not one of the leakers I used to piece together Brawl's roster before release. However, I do think MarkMan was the one that looked at my roster and went "yep that's right".



I personally thought Brawl's roster was very, very good. The only three characters that I was disappointed about not being in were Ridley, Mewtwo, and Roy. If those three characters were in, Brawl's roster would have been perfect to me, and I probably would not even be following Smash 4 right now.

I know he said that there are 35 characters and 41 stages and many people doubt him on neogaf. How irony....

Brawl's roster is great for many people but I have an weird exception where they would spread around with franchisees. For example, Tom Nook from Animal Crossing, Issac from Golden Sun, Little Mac from Punch-Out, Takamaru and lists would kept going on.
Snakey
Member
(02-19-2012, 11:11 PM)
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Originally Posted by IntelliHeath

I know he said that there are 35 characters and 41 stages and many people doubt him on neogaf. How irony....

Brawl's roster is great for many people but I have an weird exception where they would spread around with franchisees. For example, Tom Nook from Animal Crossing, Issac from Golden Sun, Little Mac from Punch-Out, Takamaru and lists would kept going on.

I personally thought Sakurai made the right call regarding Animal Crossing being too pacifist of a series to warrant a fighter. He did make sure though that the series was adequately represented in Smash Bros. by giving the series a stage, an item, an Assist Trophy, many remixed music themes, and lots of trophies and stickers.

As for your concern about the lack of new series characters added into Smash Bros., for my own roster, I did an equal distribution between veteran series newcomers and new series newcomers.

Here is my proposed roster for Smash 4 for those who are curious:








- All characters from Brawl return
- Mewtwo and Roy are brought back
- 12 newcomers (Ridley, K. Rool, Dixie Kong, Black Shadow, Palutena, Medusa, Little Mac, Takamaru, Saki, Starfy, Mii, and Mega Man). Newcomer distribution is equally divided between new series and newcomers for veteran series.
- 49 slots plus random icon (50 slots total I guess).
- 53 total playable characters (a 14 character jump over Brawl).

From Smash 64 to Melee, there was a 14 character increase, and from Melee to Brawl there was a 13 character increase. So this 14 character increase is based off of what I expect at the most.
Supermanisdead
Wishes he was as cool as MC Miker G & DJ Sven
(02-19-2012, 11:14 PM)
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you guys keep misspelling lin

SkyOdin
Member
(02-19-2012, 11:14 PM)
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From what I can gather Snakey, you have a very different approach to this topic than some other posters such as myself. You seem to be trying to guess at and gauge what is "possible" or "probable" to be included in the next Super Smash Bros. game. You seem to go about that by looking at polls, analyzing fan popularity, trying to guess at the influences and motivations of the directors, and looking for leaks.

To be honest, that entire approach is not what I am here for. I don't see the point in trying to guess at the final roster. There are no prizes to be handed out for whoever guesses the closest.

What I am here for is to talk about what I want in the next Super Smash Bros. game. I am approaching it as if I was the guy in charge of the next game. What would be best for the series? What would be the most fun? I don't really care about opinion polls of gamers or the relative popularity of specific games. The next Super Smash Bros. game will be its own game.

As far as a roster is concerned, I think there are several key issues that need to be considered as far as the character roster goes:

1) Characters need to have a distinct and fun playstyle.

2) Characters need to draw upon and represent the series they come from.

3) The roster as whole needs to be varied and well-balanced.

Honestly, based on these criteria, I think that there are some serious problems with the Smash Bros. roster as is that have been around since Melee. The biggest and most notable problem being the presence of clone characters. Take Ganondorf, for example. Ganondorf violates two of the tenets I outlined above: as a clone of Captain Falcon, Ganondorf doesn't have a very distinct moveset or playstyle. Furthermore, Ganondorf's moveset has nothing to do whatsoever with the powers and abilities that he displays within the Legend of Zelda series.

I don't think the slight tweaks to his moveset that came in Brawl really helped any either. On the contrary, I think they kept the same problem, and his gamestyle change only managed to annoy fans of Ganondorf from Melee.

I think that it would be better for the game if Ganondorf was completely overhauled, or replaced wholesale with a different character, such as a more classically designed Ganon, or another villain from the Legend of Zelda series. A new Ganondorf (or new Ganon, Vaati, Ghirahim, etc) could keep the general slow-moving, hard-hitting playstyle, but bring some more distinctive moves and tricks to the table. Heck, I would like it is they gave Ganondorf or Ganon his Trident. I would love to see a spear-wielder in the game.

I would say that the choice to replace Roy with the more distinctive Ike was one of the best decisions made in Brawl. I think the worst choice made in Brawl was to pad out the roster with even more clone characters such as Lucas and Wolf. I would have no problem if they were to completely drop either Falcos or Wolf, and Lucas entirely.

I suppose that is the biggest problem I have with the roster you posted earlier: it is far too conservative. It places far too much priority on keeping everything from the last two games. Even if it is accurate to the actual final roster, I wouldn't like it at all.
DICKS AHOY
Member
(02-19-2012, 11:18 PM)
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I remember joining Smashboards when Brawl was announced to try and get into the 'competitive' Smash scene and as I've said earlier while that panned out horribly for me, I do vaguely I remember one guy claiming to have an inside source on the game before I left. What he had to say was:

- Ness wasn't being replaced by Lucas, but rather had just been demoted to being an unlockable again
- Olimar being in the game and a starter under the name 'Pikmin and Olimar'
- WW Link was an unlockable in the game under the name 'Toon Link'
- Peach initially having a really bizarre and 'suggestive' redesign which was promptly dropped

This was around mid-2007 if I remember correctly, so it seemed pretty legit in retrospect after the game came out. Too bad whoever it was got banned soon afterwards for apparently having a creepy infatuation with Peach's ass he'd derail threads with since I remember that last point being fairly interesting and something which would be hard to find out about even after the game was released. Anybody who still posts there and was posting there around 2007 remember any of this? Because I honestly don't think I just imagined all of this.
Last edited by DICKS AHOY; 02-19-2012 at 11:22 PM.
Snakey
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(02-19-2012, 11:21 PM)
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Originally Posted by SkyOdin

I would say that the choice to replace Roy with the more distinctive Ike was one of the best decisions made in Brawl. I think the worst choice made in Brawl was to pad out the roster with even more clone characters such as Lucas and Wolf. I would have no problem if they were to completely drop either Falcos or Wolf, and Lucas entirely.

I suppose that is the biggest problem I have with the roster you posted earlier: it is far too conservative. It places far too much priority on keeping everything from the last two games. Even if it is accurate to the actual final roster, I wouldn't like it at all.

First, Roy was not replaced by Ike. Sakurai was planning on having Roy in Brawl. The reason why Roy and Mewtwo were dropped was because of time constrictions and priorities. Sonic being added so late in development probably had to make them allocate resources from those two characters to get all of the Sonic content in Brawl.

Secondly, Lucas and Wolf are not clones. They are only four moves away from being completely unique characters.

Third, considering how many people were angry about the removal of just Mewtwo and Roy, I think far, far, more people would be angry about a possible "cut happy" roster than a roster where everyone comes back. Just do any poll on any Smash Bros. message board and you will see a preference for mass-returning over mass-cuts. Heck, most people would be vehemently against the idea of Lucas and Wolf being cut. There is even a strong movement to bring back Mewtwo and Roy (with many even wanting to see Dr. Mario coming back as a costume).

I remember joining Smashboards when Brawl was announced to try and get into the 'competitive' Smash scene and as I've said earlier while that panned out horribly for me, I do vaguely I remember one guy claiming to have an inside source on the game before I left. What he had to say was:

- Ness wasn't being replaced by Lucas, but rather had just been demoted to being an unlockable again
- Olimar being in the game and a starter under the name 'Pikmin and Olimar'
- WW Link was an unlockable in the game under the name 'Toon Link'
- Peach initially having a really bizarre and 'suggestive' redesign which was promptly dropped

This was around mid-2007 if I remember correctly, so it seemed pretty legit in retrospect after the game came out. Too bad whoever it was got banned soon afterwards for apparently having a creepy infatuation with Peach's ass he'd derail threads with since I remember that last point being fairly interesting and something which would be hard to find out about even after the game was released. Anybody who still posts there and was posting there around 2007 remember any of this? Because I honestly don't think I just imagined all of this.

That was NyaseNya, one of the leakers I used to piece together Brawl's roster before release.

There is strong evidence to suggest that he was troll on GameFAQs that went by the name of Sybb. Sybb was a poster who would constantly make topics and posts pertaining to the buttocks of Peach and various other video game characters.
Last edited by Snakey; 02-19-2012 at 11:41 PM.
DICKS AHOY
Member
(02-19-2012, 11:25 PM)
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Only thing I can dispute with your roster Snakey is having four DK reps (regardless of Dixie being planned for Brawl and DK having a huge comeback as of late, that still seems a bit unbalanced. Why wouldn't the other cut characters from Brawl be in this roster?) and KI getting two new reps, one of which already serves as Pit's FS. Thoooough I've already brought this up a million times so I'll just say overall if you were the guy who correctly guessed Brawl's roster way back in '07 then you're probably on the mark.
Sir Ilpalazzo
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(02-19-2012, 11:28 PM)
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I don't know about that; I for one would be really disappointed if Lucas were cut. He was one of the best new characters in Brawl.

I would hate it if they dropped a lot of characters from Brawl, even the "unnecessary" ones. I'd rather see a more "conservative" roster if that was the alternative.
Last edited by Sir Ilpalazzo; 02-19-2012 at 11:32 PM.
Emitan
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(02-19-2012, 11:29 PM)
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This is my theme song
Snakey
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(02-19-2012, 11:29 PM)
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Originally Posted by Astrosanity

Only thing I can dispute with your roster Snakey is having four DK reps (regardless of Dixie being planned for Brawl and DK having a huge comeback as of late, that still seems a bit unbalanced. Why wouldn't the other cut characters from Brawl be in this roster?) and KI getting two new reps, one of which already serves as Pit's FS. Thoooough I've already brought this up a million times so I'll just say overall if you were the guy who correctly guessed Brawl's roster way back in '07 then you're probably on the mark.

First off, my roster is not a prediction. It is simply who I would pick to be added for Smash 4.

The reason why I have four DK characters is because the DK series is the biggest Nintendo series next to Mario, Pokemon, and Zelda. There is also no consensus of who should be the Mario series newcomer, while far more people like the idea of both K. Rool and Dixie Kong being in.

Also, only Mewtwo, Roy, and Dixie Kong are in of the Forbidden 7 because those are the only ones of the Forbidden 7 of which there exists many requests to be in Smash 4. I don't see many requests for Dr. Mario (outside of being a costume), Toon Zelda, Toon Sheik, and Plusle & Minun.

Also, Pit could easily have his Final Smash changed (just look at the Three Sacred Treasures trailer for Uprising for what it would probably be replaced with).

Also, I did not correctly guess Brawl's roster, but rather I was the first person to post it due to noticing similarities from the bits and pieces given by various leakers prior to Brawl.
Last edited by Snakey; 02-19-2012 at 11:33 PM.
Hot Coldman
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(02-19-2012, 11:31 PM)
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Originally Posted by Billychu

This is my theme song

Not the best fighting game x space jam remix ever, but close
Emitan
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(02-19-2012, 11:39 PM)
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Originally Posted by Green Scar

Not the best fighting game x space jam remix ever, but close

But mine was about the best fighting game and video game ever.
SkyOdin
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(02-19-2012, 11:44 PM)
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Originally Posted by Snakey

First, Roy was not replaced by Ike. Sakurai was planning on having Roy in Brawl. The reason why Roy and Mewtwo were dropped was because of time constrictions and priorities. Sonic being added so late in development probably had to make them allocate resources from those two characters to get all of the Sonic content in Brawl.

Secondly, Lucas and Wolf are not clones. They are only four moves away from being completely unique characters.

Third, considering how people were angry about the removal of just Mewtwo and Roy, I think far, far, more people would be angry about a possible "cut happy" roster than a roster where everyone comes back. Just do any poll on any Smash Bros. message board and you will see a preference for mass-returning over mass-cuts. Heck, most people would be vehemently against the idea of Lucas and Wolf being cut. There is even a strong movement to bring back Mewtwo and Roy (with many even wanting to see Dr. Mario coming back as a costume).

Characters get cut from fighting game rosters. It is a fact of the genre. People were upset when Marvel vs. Capcom 3 had a completely different roster than MvC2, but it doesn't change the fact that MvC3 has a pretty decent roster, and I believe a lot of people have gotten over most of the cuts (Megaman aside).

As far as Super Smash Bros. goes though, bringing back old clone characters comes at a price. As long as Ganondorf is a clone of Captain Falcon, we won't get a version of Ganondorf that wields a sword and throws spells. As long as Roy is on the roster, he is eating up a slot that could be filled with another Fire Emblem character, potentially one with a more distinctive moveset. The more clones there are, the worse the game is, regardless of whether people have an attachment to those characters.

I also dispute that Wolf and Falco are somehow not clones. In their case, being a clone goes beyond just special moves. While I am a fan of Wolf, and think that he does play rather differently from Fox, he is still built on the same paradigm as Fox. All three characters are relatively light and fast, carry a one or two handguns, fight with fancy kicks and so on, and emphasize jumping ability. For example, they could have built Falco or Wolf based on the weapon list from Star Fox Assault, where the character pulls out various different weapons for different attacks, much like Solid Snake, Link, or Peach. Alternatively, they could have built one of them based on game mechanics from the Star Fox games directly, such as semi-homing charged shots and explosives. While they made some progress with them from the days of Melee, Falco and now Wolf are still stuck in the same general paradigm that Fox laid down.

Here's my question snakey, what do you want? You spend a lot of time talking about general opinions of messageboards and popular opinions, but you don't seem to often talk openly about what you want. After all, we are just posters on a messageboard talking about what we want to see in a game. There is no need to turn to the opinions of other people in order to validate our opinions, or anything to gain from doing so either. So please be frank with what characters you want to see in the game.
KevinCow
Banned
(02-19-2012, 11:44 PM)
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As much as I want Ridley in, I'm having trouble thinking of a distinctive play style for him. Charizard kinda stole the thunder on the heavy, winged, fire-breathing dragon thing.

I suppose between his claws, his teeth, and his tail, he's got no lack of pointy parts. If they just make him move in cool ways, there will probably be something dangerous sticking out to hurt people with.
Emitan
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(02-19-2012, 11:45 PM)
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Originally Posted by KevinCow

As much as I want Ridley in, I'm having trouble thinking of a distinctive play style for him. Charizard kinda stole the thunder on the heavy, winged, fire-breathing dragon thing.

I suppose between his claws, his teeth, and his tail, he's got no lack of pointy parts. If they just make him move in cool ways, there will probably be something dangerous sticking out to hurt people with.

Yeah, whenever I think of Ridley I just think of Charizard now. ;_;

I really wanted Ridley in Brawl.
Hot Coldman
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(02-19-2012, 11:45 PM)
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Originally Posted by Billychu

But mine was about the best fighting game and video game ever.

Melee?

Hmmm

HMMMM

...sure, why not
Snakey
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(02-19-2012, 11:47 PM)
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Originally Posted by SkyOdin

Here's my question snakey, what do you want? You spend a lot of time talking about general opinions of messageboards and popular opinions, but you don't seem to often talk openly about what you want. After all, we are just posters on a messageboard talking about what we want to see in a game. There is no need to turn to the opinions of other people in order to validate our opinions, or anything to gain from doing so either. So please be frank with what characters you want to see in the game.

The only characters I would want to see as newcomers in Smash 4 are Ridley, Mega Man, Mewtwo, and Roy. I would also be happy to see K. Rool, Dixie Kong, Toad, and Little Mac.

Other than that there are no other characters I am interested in.
Nocturnowl
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(02-19-2012, 11:52 PM)
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Originally Posted by KevinCow

As much as I want Ridley in, I'm having trouble thinking of a distinctive play style for him. Charizard kinda stole the thunder on the heavy, winged, fire-breathing dragon thing.

I suppose between his claws, his teeth, and his tail, he's got no lack of pointy parts. If they just make him move in cool ways, there will probably be something dangerous sticking out to hurt people with.

I imagine that Ridley would fight a lot more primal and unorthodox than Charizard, in fact they could really go for the whole flying thing and make many of his moves better in the air or give him a unique flying state that allows access to more moves or something, granted this would make him a beast at recovery but Pit and Metaknight lean in this direction already, Ridley could be the one to make an aerial style truly unique.
I've got something like UMvC3 Firebrand style fighting on the brain right now, but grander.
SkyOdin
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(02-19-2012, 11:54 PM)
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Originally Posted by Snakey

The only characters I would want to see as newcomers in Smash 4 are Ridley, Mega Man, Mewtwo, and Roy. I would also be happy to see K. Rool, Dixie Kong, Toad, and Little Mac.

Other than that there are no other characters I am interested in.

How do you imagine characters like K. Rool, Dixie, Toad, Little Mac, and Ridley playing? Little Mac I can kind of see how he would play, but I admit that I have trouble imagining how K. Rool would play. I also have trouble figuring out what people want Ridley to be like. For me, Ridley always seemed to be a little too big to fit into a Smash Bros. battlefield. Do people want him to be shrunk down to fit better?
Snakey
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(02-19-2012, 11:58 PM)
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Originally Posted by SkyOdin

How do you imagine characters like K. Rool, Dixie, Toad, Little Mac, and Ridley playing? Little Mac I can kind of see how he would play, but I admit that I have trouble imagining how K. Rool would play. I also have trouble figuring out what people want Ridley to be like. For me, Ridley always seemed to be a little too big to fit into a Smash Bros. battlefield. Do people want him to be shrunk down to fit better?

I made a ton of movesets. Here are my movesets for K. Rool and Ridley.

K. Rool moveset:

K. Rool was one of two characters I was considering for the third Donkey Kong spot. The other being Dixie Kong. One of the main reasons why I chose K. Rool over Dixie was because he had more potential to be unique than her. However, some people think K. Rool would be too similar to Bowser However, K. Rool has a lot going for him that would set him apart from that other heavyweight reptilian villain. There has been a lot of attacks for him to have from the many games he has been in such as the original Donkey Kong Country trilogy, Donkey Kong 64, and the King of Swing games. It is for this reason that making a move for K. Rool (at least for his specials and Final Smash) would be quite easy and unique at the same time.

As for K. Rool as playable character, I envision him to be slow, powerful, and quite humorous in his attacks and animations. K. Rool is obviously obese, and I plan to make some of his moves reflect his big golden belly. While not a joke character, K. Rool will provide plenty of laughs, and at the same time be quite lovable, much like his bumbling self during Donkey Kong Country (and 64) games. It is his quirkiness and humorousness that I hope would make him standout among the heavyweights in Smash 4 and thus give him a place among the Smash roster. I am hoping that many of you will love the moveset that I crafted for him.

As for K. Rool’s design, usually with Smash the latest appearance is what the design of the character is in the game. However, I am more fond of Rare’s design for K. Rool than in the Jungle Climber games (he was also made less goofy, one of the main things that separated from other big Nintendo villains, in the Jungle Climber games). However, I think that there should a compromise of designs, with him having the same cape and crown as his Jungle Climber design but retaining the eye tic and golden belly from the Rare design. As for how K. Rool’s official artwork, I imagine him jumping up in the air a bit with one of his arms raised up in the air like he is a champion or something (sort of like his trophy in Brawl). I think K. Rool’s moveset will help establish how K. Rool should be in the Donkey Kong series (one of the few things that was lost with the DK series after Rare left was K. Rool’s bumbling nature), and thus help him gain a whole new generation of fans.

K. Rool regular moves:

A: K. Rool does an exaggerated powerful punch.
AA: K. Rool does another exaggerated powerful punch.
AAA: K. Rool bashes his opponent with his big, round belly.
A-tilt: K. Roool smacks his opponent with his stubby tail.
Running-A: K. Rool get thrusted foward quickly by his blunderpuss.
Down-tilt A: K. Rool does a headbutt with his crown, ouch.
Up-tilt A: K. Rool does a flip and lands on his posterior, not a good move to do.
A-Air: K. Rool does a spin in the air.
Backward-Air: K. Rool looks back, and claps his hands backward.
Up-Air: K. Rool takes off his crown and smacks someone upward with it. This is a kill move.
Down-Air: K. Rool does a downward body slam (K. Rool comes down very quickly, just like with Toon Link’s down air).
Forward-Air: K. Rool bashes his opponent with his big, golden belly in the air.

Foward-Smash: K. Rool bashes his opponent with the end of his blunderpuss. This is obviously chargeable.
Down-Smash: K. Rool spins on his belly, think like Bowser’ down-smash and Wario’s down-smash (only K. Rool does it on his belly instead of his back).
Up-Smash: K. Rool pulls out his backpack copter and starts pulling a cord to it (this is how he charges it up), when he stops pulling he attacks upward using the propeller part to the copter. It has limited ranged upward, but it is very powerful.


For K. Rool’s grabs, he uses the suction power of his blunderpuss from Donkey Kong Country 2. The blunderpuss sucks opponents toward K. Rool which allows him to do grab attacks on them. The suction length for the blunderpuss is about the length of Link’s Hookshot.

Grab-A: K. Rool holds onto his opponent while bashing them with the butt of his blunderpuss.
Grab-forward: K. Rool bashes his opponent with his blunderpuss forward.
Grab-backward: K. Rool bashes his opponent with his blunderpuss backward.
Grab-down: K. Rool body slams his opponent (think Bowser’s down grab).
Grab-up: K. Rool throws his opponent a little upward, then bashes them with his crowned head. His most powerful throw move.

K. Rool special moves:

Regular-B: Blunderpuss Cannonballs: K. Rool takes out his trusty blunderpuss, then blasts out a cannon ball. However, the cannon balls that come out are random, and dependent on how much damage K. Rool has accumulated. At 1-50% damage K. Rool will mostly just shoot out regular cannon balls. At 50-100% damage, K. Rool will mostly shoot out spiked cannonballs, which obviously do much more damage than regular cannon balls. Also, the way the cannon balls come out can differ. Sometimes the cannonballs will just go in a straight line, while other times they will bounce or spin around in a circle. However, sometimes the cannon ball will drop in mid-air which will allow your opponent to use the cannon ball against you (however, you opponent won’t be able to touch it if it is a spiked cannon ball). Sometimes K. Rool will even shoot out two cannon balls at the same time. However, once K. Rool has 100%+ damage K. Rool will stop blasting out cannon balls and start shooting out those “clouds” from the later stages in the Kaptain K. Rool fight. The blue clouds momentarily freeze your opponents, red clouds make you move much slower (and even affects your opponent’s fall speed), and purple clouds reverse your opponent’s controls. The status effects from these clouds only last for about ten seconds or less (you can button mash your way out of frozen one).

Side-B: Crown Throw: K. Rool throws his trusty crown at his opponent. The throw speed is dependent on how much damage he has accumulated though. Also, after the crown hits an opponent or disappears off screen, it magically appears back on his head.

Down-B: Rump Waves: This move is derived from the K. Rool fight in Donkey Kong 64. This move is chargeable, and K. Rool’s posterior glows while charging it. Whenever you let go on down-b, K. Rool jumps up in the air and when he hits the ground, he creates a multitude of green shock waves on the ground.

Up-B: Backpack-Copter: K. Rool uses the backpack copter from Donkey Kong Country 3 as his recovery move. This moves is a very good recovery move (has good vertical and horizontal recovery and lasts quite a bit), however, the only way an opponent can get hurt from it is if they get hit by the propeller for it. Also, there is one big downside to this move, if an opponent throws an item or a powerful projectile at the back of K. Rool’s copter, then it will short circuit and K. Rool will have no control over where it goes, thereby endangering him.

Final Smash: Cannon Ball Barrage: K. Rool jumps up in the air and slams the ground and cannon balls randomly shoot down from the top of the screen, however, unlike in Donkey Kong Country, the cannonballs do not have a pattern, and are random. The cannonballs also fall really fast, and the Final Smash lasts longer than PK Starstorm. However, the cannonballs do no have as much area as the “stars” from the PK Starstorm.

K. Rools taunts are as follows:
1. K. Rool goes “Yeaaaaaaaaaah”, while raising his arm up like he’s a champion (this is based off of what he would do during the K. Rool fight in Donkey Kong 64).
2. K. Rool plays his belly like if it were a drum.
3. K. Rool inspects the gun part of his blunderpuss, then a whole bunch of black smoke comes out of it, and K. Rool’s entire face is covered with black soot. K. Rool sneezes and all the soot comes off.

Victory animations:
1. K. Rool jumps up and down saying “Yeaaaaahh uh-huh yeeaaaahh uh-huh” with his arms and the air and he spins around, it sort looks like he is dancing.
2. K. Rool attempts to a backflip, and instead lands on his back. K. Rool then gives a thumbs-up.
3. K. Rool starts saying “Thank you, thank you” while bowing, only that his back is turned toward the screen. K. Rool notices this and quickly turns to the screen and waves hi.

Running animation:
K. Rool runs like how he runs in Donkey Kong Country, he swings his arms from side to die. I would also make him breeze heavily, as though running is hard work for him.

Idle animation:
K. Rool simple clenches his fists like he is in a boxing animation. Once and while, K. Rool scratches his head and yawns.

Costumes:
Costume 1: K. Rool has a blue cape, and a blue-shiny belly.
Costume 2: K. Rool has purple cape, and a purple-shiny belly.
Costume 3: K. Rool has a black cape, and black tint to his scales.
Costume 4: K. Rool has a white cape, is a lighter green than he normally is.
Costume 5: K. Rool has a green cape, and a green-shiny belly.
Unlockable costume: Kaptain K. Rool

Kirby Hat: Kirby gets K. Rool’s crown and his eye tic for one of his eyes. Kirby’s does the blunderpuss cannon balls as the special move that he copied.

K. Rool- Snake Codec Conversation:

Snake: Colonel, who is this fat alligator with the crown and cape?
Campbell: That’s King K. Rool. He’s leader of the Kremling Corps and Donkey Kong’s arch-nemesis.

Snake: He doesn’t look that threatening to me.
Campbell: He may look that way, but he carries around a gun that can shoot cannonballs and has a backpack helicopter.
Snake: He still doesn’t seem that bad.
Campbell: Don’t get cocky Snake. K. Rool has a thing for pretending to be down when he isn’t. He fights back best, when you think he is done.
Snake: So he likes to play opossum.
Campbell: Yes, so don’t let your guard down, and don’t underestimate him.
Snake: Got it colonel.
End of codec.



Ridley moveset:

Ridley is perhaps the one character that everyone was expecting to show up in the roster, but didn’t. Ridley is now by far the most requested character for Smash 4, however, he has a huge albatross hanging around his neck, his size. Ridley’s huge size has often made many pro-Ridley topics quickly devolve into heated debates and flame wars. Many of Ridley’s detractors argue that Ridley’s size is what makes him Ridley, and that downsizing him would take away his ferocity or be demeaning to the character (the fact of the matter is that these same people, only say this because they don’t want to see Ridley get on the roster).

First off, Ridley’s size means nothing. Many characters throughout the history of Smash have been resized. Bowser, Ganondorf, Pikachu, Kirby, Meta Knight, King Dedede, all had their sizes adjusted to fit in with the other Smash fighters. Heck, take Olimar for example, he is only the size of a quarter, yet he was resized so that he was no a tiny being, despite one of the main tenets to the Pikmin series is being a tiny being in our “normal” sized world. However, no one has said that Olimar was ruined due to being resized. Ridley himself also barely needs to be resized if we are going by his Super Metroid incarnation. In Super Metroid, Ridley is only 1.5 times the size of Samus. Ridley can easily be resized to be the size of Ganondorf (who is the tallest character in the game), while in his Super Metroid positon (where he is hunched over).

The main tenet to Ridley’s ferocity and the aura behind him (despite most of these people not even being Ridley fans) is that Ridley’s tendency to show up when one has forgotten about him and the cruel nature of his attacks, not his size (if there is one Metroid boss that is famous for his size, it would be Kraid). Ridley is iconic for being a boss that shows up when one least expects him and for being an awesome boss in most of games he has been in. Really, I don’t think resizing Ridley would have any bearing on his ferocity. Look at Ganondorf and Mewtwo, they are both god-like beings in their respective series, yet they were placed into Smash as playable characters and few people complained about them being playable limited the sense of respect people had for them (however, there are/were people who complained about how terrible Mewtwo was in Melee, and how bad Ganondorf is in Brawl).

Ridley can retain much of his brutality through the right type of moveset. Ridley is a dragon with sharp claws, a pointed tail, and a mouth full of knife-like teeth. Obviously, there is a lot that can be derived from for a possible moveset for Ridley. Ridley also has the ability shoot fireballs out of his mouth, as well as create gusts by flapping his wings (or at least that was a new ability given to him in Brawl). Ridley’s anatomy and brutality has a lot of potential to bring a very unique moveset to the Smash Bros. roster.

As for Ridley’s design, I think Ridley should just be regular Ridley in Smash Bros. In Brawl, Ridley was made into light-blue, a color that he never was in the main Metroid series (the only time he was ever blue was when he was Ridley-X in Metroid Fusion, in which case he was dark blue). In other Metroid games, Ridley was purple (in Metroid and Super Metroid) or grey (in Metroid Zero Mission). It is for this reason that selecting which default color Ridley should be to be quite difficult. However, I am leaning toward purple since that is the color Ridley is usually viewed as being. As for what Ridley’s battle pose would be, I imagine him being in a similar position as when you fight him in Super Metroid, where he is hunched over, but looks feral and vicious. As for his official art, I imagine him in the same hunched over position, only he looks more calculating and ominous than feral and vicious (it is hard to describe). Overall, I am hoping that you will love the moveset I made for everyone’s favorite Space Pirate commander and that it captures Ridley’s nature from the Metroid series.

Ridley regular moves:

A: Ridley swipes with one his arms.
AA: Ridley swipes with another arm.
AAA: Ridley bites his opponent.
Running-A: Ridley lunges at his opponent with both of clawed hands.
Side-A-tilt: Ridley slashes his opponent with the knifey end of his tail.
Up-A-tilt: Ridley bites upward.
Down-A-tilt: Ridley stabs with his tail in the same manner as a scorpion.
A-Air: Ridley spins diagonally, slashing with his claws and tail.
Forward-air: Ridley stretches out his neck and bites his opponent.
Backward-air: Ridley viciously stabs his opponent in back of him with his tail.
Down-air: Ridley does a downward stab with his tail (it works like Toon Link’s down-air in which he comes down quickly and bounces off his opponent when he does it).
Up-air: Ridley breathes a small stream of fire with his head pointed up. Similar to "tail pogo" attack from the 2D Metroids.
Forward-Smash: This is actually a weird one, considering that it is a combo. Ridley will first drive one of his claws into his opponent, then head-butt him or her, then he quickly stabs him or her with his tail.
Down-Smash: Ridley does a roundhouse with his tail. While the range to this attack is quite big, the only part that really does a lot of damage is at the tip.
Up-Smash: Ridley stabs with the pointed edges of his wings (its most similar to Charizard's up-smash)

Grabs:

Grab-A: Ridley scratches the face of the opponent he is holding.
Forward-Grab: Ridley throws the opponent forward a bit then scratches him or her even further.
Backward-Grab: Ridley throws the opponent back a bit then whips him or her even further back with his tail.
Up-Grab: Ridley tosses his opponent up a bit then he bites them. It does a lot of damage, but it does not toss your opponent up much vertically.
Down-Grab: Ridley slams his opponent to the ground, then jump up a bit and drives all four of his clawed limbs into his opponent.


Ridley special moves:

Regular B: Dragon Cannon: This move is chargeable. Ridley opens his mouth then starts charging up a bunch of “fire” in his mouth. Once you are done charging, press B again to unleash a huge death beam from Ridley’s mouth (think about what he would in the Meta Ridley fights in the Metroid Prime series). This move is not particularly powerful and it only covers about the length of about half of Final Destination, however, since it comes directly from Ridley’s mouth, it is not really a projectile and it cannot be reflected.

Down-B: Death Wind: This move is taken from the Ridley fight in Brawl. While this move does no damage, it is an excellent edge-guard move. Keep pressing down-b to make Ridley’s wings flap continuously which will blow back your opponent a bit. Your opponent gets blown back further the more damaged they are, also, the move is more effective against lighter characters than heavy characters.

Side-B: Dragon Rush: This move is derived from the second half of the Meta Ridley half in Metroid Prime. It works like Fox and Falco’s Phantasm, however, with Ridley there is a bit of start-up time to doing (though he has super-armor during the initial start-up). This move also does much more damage than Fox and Falco’s Phantasm (over 15%). Ridley will also do a spin attack with his tail (based off again off of this same attack from the Meta Ridley fight in Metroid Prime) if you hit side-b again near the end of his dash. While the move is predictable, the spin attack can easily punish your opponent from its sheer range (the tale is extended outward fully).

Up-B: Wings of Terror: This move is very similar to Pit’s recovery, only it lasts a shorter time (about two seconds shorter). Ridley will flap his wings for a bit to fly around, also, there is no way to indicate that Ridley has performed this move other than his wings flap continuously, so if the player does not know how long this recovery move lasts, he could be in a heap of trouble.


Final Smash: Omega Ridley: Ridley will transform into Omega Ridley from Metroid Prime 3 as his Final Smash. Omega Ridley is massive (at least half the size of Final Destination), has a huge power increase, and his attacks have a lot range as a result of his massive size. The major drawback to this Final Smash is that it does last as long as other transformation Final Smashes. Also, many of Ridley’s fire attacks are now Phazon attacks while in this form.

Alternate Final Smash idea: Pain Cycle: When this Final Smash is activated near an opponent, Ridley grabs a nearby opponent, and then goes into a cutscene (think Captain Falcon's Final Smash). Ridley will then begin flying and scraping the grabbed opponent against a wall like in Brawl and Other M. Ridley can only do this attack on one opponent at a time, however, it is very powerful, doing 75%-100% damage.

Ridley’s taunts are as follows:
1. Ridley gets on all fours and screeches at his opponent.
2. Ridley will turn to the screen and his eyes will glow and have his wings stretched out (it is similar to one of Meta Knight’s taunts).
3. Ridley will squint his eyes then “crack” one of his knuckles.

Ridley’s victory animations are as follows (I tried to capture an eery mysteriousness to it):
1. Ridley will be in his idle battle animation, but he will be facing the screen and his eyes will glow.
2. Ridley puts one of his hands under his head, and closes his eyes.
3. Ridley flies up for a bit then comes back down, with a battle ready pose.

Running animation:
Ridley does not run like Charizard and Meta Knight (which is they fly-float). Instead, Ridley moves sort of like Donkey Kong (he runs on all fours), but he sorts of has hopping lunges .

Idle animation:
Ridley will simply be in his Super Metroid position, doing absolutely nothing, sometimes though his eyes will glow, or he will squint his eyes menacingly, or cringe one of his talon arms.

Ridley costumes:
1. Blue Ridley
2. Gray Ridley
3. Red Ridley
4. Black Ridley
5. Green Ridley

Kirby Hat:
Kirby becomes like Ridley’s head in shape almost (a bit pointy), and he sprouts Ridley’s wings and tail. The special move he can do is obviously Dragon Cannon.

Ridley also has three jumps, however, they have as much vertical value as two regular jumps for most characters. Ridley also has the ability to glide.

Ridley-Snake Codec Conversation:
Snake: Colonel... colonel! What is this dragon beast that I am fighting?!
Campbell: That’s Ridley. Ridley may not look like it, but he is a brilliant tactician and holds the title as leader of the Space Pirates.
Snake: So this dragon-thing is an intelligent sentient being?
Campbell: Yes, Ridley is widely known for his cruelty and brutality. Its because of him that the Space Pirates have become a source of fear and unrest throughout the galaxy. Why, rumor has it that he personally murdered the parents of Samus Aran?
Snake: Samus.... you mean that woman in the armor-suit.... no wonder she seems a bit cold....
Campbell: Ridley and Samus have a long running hatred for one another. Samus has defeated Ridley many times, but he is driven to return to the battlefield by his sheer hatred for Samus.
Snake: What are Ridley’s tactics?
Campbell: Ridley will use his claws, his tail, and even his teeth. Not to mention he has the ability to create gusts of wind by flapping his wings, and fire a jet of fire from his mouth. Ridley is persistent Snake, and he lacks any sense of pity or mercy.
Snake: So I am facing a tough battle ahead of me huh.
Campbell: Snake, Ridley may be battle hardened, but so are you, so get out there and give it your all.
Snake: I won’t let you down Colonel. I am going to slay this dragon.... for you Samus....
End of codec.
Diddy Kong
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(02-20-2012, 12:04 AM)
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Really like your K.Rool moveset
Snakey
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(02-20-2012, 12:13 AM)
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Originally Posted by Diddy Kong

Really like your K.Rool moveset

Thank you. I appreciate the complement. I made a lot of movesets for possible newcomers for Smash 4. However, unfortunately, I did not make a moveset for Dixie Kong, though I do think she too would be an interesting character and deserves to be placed in too.
KevinCow
Banned
(02-20-2012, 12:36 AM)
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LIST TIME

You get 12 newcomers. Transforming characters count each form individually - Zelda would be 2, Pokemon Trainer would be 3.

Go.

Ridley
Medusa
Black Shadow
K. Rool
Dixie
Little Mac
Isaac (Golden Sun)
Isa (Sin & Punishment)
Jill (Drill Dozer)
Frogbot (Excitebots)
Mega Man
Simon Belmont

Edit: Oh balls I forgot Isaac and Isa, sorry Takamaru and Mike Jones.

- 5 from returning francises, 7 from previously unrepresented franchises
- 3 chicks
- 4 villains
- 1 popular old-school character with a recent revival
- 2 obscure old-school characters; 1 for the east, 1 for the west
- 1 relatively popular recent character
- 1 obscure recent character
- I'm not really sure whether to call Isa obscure or not, or recent or not; either way, he represents something unrepresented. A new character introduced during the Wii era in a series created during the N64 era, both of which have little representation.
- 1 character who's barely a character and would make people univerally say, "What the hell?" so Game & Watch has someone to hang out with
- 2 third-party characters with strong ties to classic Nintendo

I would be happy with this lineup.
Last edited by KevinCow; 02-20-2012 at 01:00 AM.
Snakey
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(02-20-2012, 12:40 AM)
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Originally Posted by KevinCow

LIST TIME

You get 12 newcomers. Transforming characters count each form individually - Zelda would be 2, Pokemon Trainer would be 3.

Go.

1. Ridley
2. K. Rool
3. Dixie Kong
4. Black Shadow
5. Palutena
6. Medusa
7. Little Mac
8. Takamaru
9. Starfy
10. Saki
11. Toad
12. Mega Man

- Mostly even distribution between newcomer franchises and newcomers for veteran franchises.

I would also bring back the cut veterans Mewtwo and Roy.
Last edited by Snakey; 02-20-2012 at 01:00 AM.
Forkball
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(02-20-2012, 12:48 AM)
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Am I the only person who really thinks they'll throw Ghirahim in the game? He was heavily featured in Skyward Sword, moreso than someone like Zant, and he has a rather diverse skillset so he could be an ideal Smash Bros. character.
Snakey
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(02-20-2012, 12:51 AM)
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Originally Posted by Forkball

Am I the only person who really thinks they'll throw Ghirahim in the game? He was heavily featured in Skyward Sword, moreso than someone like Zant, and he has a rather diverse skillset so he could be an ideal Smash Bros. character.

IF (and that is a big if) there is a Zelda newcomer it will certainly be Ghirahim. I am personally not expecting a newcomer for the Zelda series though.
Last edited by Snakey; 02-20-2012 at 12:55 AM.
Sir Ilpalazzo
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(02-20-2012, 12:53 AM)
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Originally Posted by Forkball

Am I the only person who really thinks they'll throw Ghirahim in the game? He was heavily featured in Skyward Sword, moreso than someone like Zant, and he has a rather diverse skillset so he could be an ideal Smash Bros. character.

I think he would be really cool, but I doubt he'll be in this game since he'll probably never be in a Zelda game again. If I could decide who got in SSB4, I'd totally go for him.

Originally Posted by KevinCow

LIST TIME

You get 12 newcomers. Transforming characters count each form individually - Zelda would be 2, Pokemon Trainer would be 3.

Go.

Toad
K. Rool
Ghirahim
Samurai Goroh
Ridley
Bandanna Waddle Dee
Masked Man (from Mother 3)
Leaf (Master Knight)
Saki
Little Mac
Takamaru
Mega Man

Toad might seem kind of bland, but I'd rather see him as sort of a retro Mario character than anyone else from that series.
Last edited by Sir Ilpalazzo; 02-20-2012 at 01:02 AM.
Thores
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(02-20-2012, 01:01 AM)
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1. Ridley
2. Impa (Shiek replacement)
3. 9-Volt
4. Palutena
5. Little Mac
6. Sukapon
7. Shulk
8. Genesect
9. Tingle
10. Paper Mario
11. Laughing Dog /w NES Zapper
12. Mega Man

- 7 from returning franchises, 5 from previously unrepped franchises
- Flop the previous number if you consider Tingle and Paper Mario their own franchises
- 2 chicks
- 1 villain
- 1 niche character from a critically acclaimed game
- 1 retro revival
- 1 traditional WTF character
- 1 third-party character

9-Volt, Tingle, and to a slightly lesser extent Paper Mario are admittedly wishlist choices that are pretty unlikely. For a vaguely more realistic list replace them with Bowser Jr., an FE rep that isn't Roy (and hopefully not yet another swordsman), and I dunno, let's say Issac or his kid from Golden Sun. This would change my new-old rep balance to 6-6.

Originally Posted by Forkball

Am I the only person who really thinks they'll throw Ghirahim in the game? He was heavily featured in Skyward Sword, moreso than someone like Zant, and he has a rather diverse skillset so he could be an ideal Smash Bros. character.

He's a perfect candidate moveset-wise, the question is just whether or not Nintendo will think he's still relevant enough to be playable when Smash 4 releases in probably 2+ years.
Last edited by Thores; 02-20-2012 at 01:07 AM.
Thores
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(02-20-2012, 01:06 AM)
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Whoops double post, I'm dumb
Kjellson
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(02-20-2012, 01:08 AM)
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Why the hell would Slime be a playable character?
Codeblue
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(02-20-2012, 01:10 AM)
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-Medusa
-Dixie Kong
-Crom (or however they translate the new FE lords name)
-Little Mac
-Ghirahim
-Megaman
-Isa
-Jill
-Isaac
-Goroh
-Shulk
-Andy

I don't think both Medusa and Palutena will get in, but I guess that really depends on what their roles are in Uprising. My list got a little off the rails at the end as I ran out of ideas.

The reason I think Ghirahim is getting in is because I feel like Toon Link is going to get cut now that the line between realistic and cartoonish is blurred with SS and they probably won't go back to young/adult Links. If they don't want to use a one off character then maybe Impa?
Hot Coldman
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(02-20-2012, 01:11 AM)
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12 newcomers, eh...

Little Mac
Ridley
Knuckles
Dr Eggman
Revolver Ocelot
Mega Man
Dr Wily
Zero
Chocobo Party (3 old-school FF classes with a Chocobo. NOT 4 separate fighters, but 4 characters working in unison.)
Kefka
Simon Belmont
Shanoa

I think Nintendo will limit 3rd parties to, at most, 5 series, and they'll blow this out way bigger. Sonic, Metal Gear, Final Fantasy, Mega Man and Castlevania are the biggest, most obvious picks- the last three basically defined third party support for the NES and SNES to the point that they might as well have been Nintendo games, and the other two are already present. My FF ideas are ones I've thought about for a while, and am very happy about- the Chocobo Party would demonstrate the classic FF classes and the fact you never exactly fight alone in FF, and Kefka is probably the most well-known pre-Cloud FF character. 1st-party, Little Mac and Ridley are the biggest characters missing from Brawl's roster.

Seriously, though, I'm going to say it now- more third-parties, but with an emphasis on volume over breadth. I'd love to see Ryu, Leon Kennedy, Rayman, Sam Fisher, Travis Touchdown, Maxwell etc etc etfuckingcetera in this game, but I'd much prefer they put as much effort into stuff for, say, Sonic, as they do for Mario. MGS and Sonic were handled badly in Brawl- there just wasn't enough stuff.
KevinCow
Banned
(02-20-2012, 01:11 AM)
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Originally Posted by Kjellson

Why the hell would Slime be a playable character?

Same reason Pikachu's playable. He's the mascot of a pretty popular franchise.

Also I'm remembering way too many more good choices, I don't think 12 was a big enough number. :(
Diddy Kong
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(02-20-2012, 01:12 AM)
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Originally Posted by Thores

Impa (Shiek replacement)




Anyways,

1. Dixie Kong
2. King K.Rool
3. Toad
4. Tingle
5. Ghirahim
6. Little Mac
7. Ridley
8. Starfy
9. Issac
10. Saki
11. Tails
12. Banjo Kazooie
Snakey
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(02-20-2012, 01:12 AM)
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For those who are expecting a non-sword using lord to come out of FE13, the two lords for FE13 are Chrome/Krom (another blue-haired male sword-user) and My Unit (an unit in which the player determines the name, gender, appearance, and class). Keep in mind though that the unanimous choice for a third playable Fire Emblem character by Japanese Smash Bros. fans is Roy, and that if Sakurai were to opt for someone else it would most likely be Chrome/Krom.
Last edited by Snakey; 02-20-2012 at 01:25 AM.
Codeblue
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(02-20-2012, 01:17 AM)
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I had to look Sukapon up. It's a shame he's so obscure, he looks like an amazing candidate.
Nocturnowl
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(02-20-2012, 01:20 AM)
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List time?

1. K.Rool
2. Ridley
3. Dixie Kong
4. Little Mac
5. Black Shadow
6. Shulk
7. Mega Man (classic)
8. Simon Belmont
9. Ray (Custom Robo)
10. Advance Wars rep (I have no idea who i'd go with)
11. Saki
12. Issac

There are many things that could change here over time, depending on the roles of the two Kid Icarus females, if Rolling Western turns out to be awesome i'd shove Dillon in instantly regardless of how low key it is becuase i just love the design, Last Story could give me some good character choices and so on, but for now this will do.I had to withhold myself from going overboard with what I would personally want.

I aimed to rep Nintendo series that have yet to get playable characters that I felt were worth representing, the final slot was originally Chibi Robo but then I figured Psyenergy could be pretty fun, that and older gruffer Issac as an alt costume swayed me.

Despite Konami already having a rep I don't think that MGS screams Nintendo to me, Castlevania on the other hand does so in goes Belmont though personally i'd rather have Soma, Alucard or Shanoa but they lack the name power that Simon has.

I'm not too big on Custom Robo but Ray could have a fun moveset, though it's the first in line to be booted if a better choice comes up, Issac follows closely in the boot out line.

I've never played the first S&P game but I put Saki in over Isa (whose game I do own) because quite frankly Isa looks like a complete berk. Xenoblade is fantastic so Shulk is in, I was tempted to go with Melia because I want a mage/staff user in smash or Dunban who is just plain awesome but I left Shulk as the choice since he is the main character after all.

Advance Wars is tricky for me, i've only played the two DS games and the main characters kind of suck for those two, especially Jake
On a side note i'd have Impa replace Shiek (sorry Diddy) and return Mewtwo to the fold regarding the already present roster.

Now if I were playing favourites my list would be...
1. K.Rool
2. Ridley
3. Dixie Kong
4. Little Mac
5. Mighty Gazelle
6. Melia
7. Mega Man (classic)
8. Soma Cruz
9. Shyguy
10. Agent J
11. Primeape
12. The Black Knight
Yeah I don't think the rest of you would like this.
Heropon
Member
(02-20-2012, 01:28 AM)
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1.Dixie Kong
2.Isaac
3.Takamaru
4.Shulk
5.Ganon (with trident)
6.Mewtwo
7.Saki
8.Little Mac
9.Gulliver (animal crossing fox clone)
10.Crazy Tracy
11.Mog
12.Megaman

I didn't want to play favourites.
Thores
Member
(02-20-2012, 01:38 AM)
Thores's Avatar

Originally Posted by Diddy Kong

JeanLucPicardFacepalm.jpg

Haha, do I think there's a 100% chance of that happening? No I do not. But outside of Smash, Sheik has been in exactly one game and its rereleases. Impa's more of a recurring character than Sheik is, and recently she's been spotlighting as a badass. I get that Sheik is a part of Smash culture now and a lot of fans would be upset if she got removed/replaced, but fan response/popularity isn't everything. In fact, with one or two exceptions per game, Sakurai doesn't really give a shit about what the "popular" or "safe" choice would be and takes more pleasure in mixing up the roster. Since Link and Zelda are presumably going to be updated to their Skyward Sword designs in SSB4, it would make thematic sense to have Impa in, as she was pretty much the "Sheik" of that game. Or they'll just give Sheik a Skyward Sword-ized design and move on to the next character. OR they skip Skyward Sword, use character designs from whatever the Wii U Zelda ends up being, and something completely different ends up happening in regards to character choices. I could honestly see any one of these happening.

But hey, I've been wrong before, and I'm sure your list is way more realis-

Originally Posted by Diddy Kong

12. Banjo Kazooie



Originally Posted by Snakey

For those who are expecting a non-sword using lord to come out of FE13, the two lords for FE13 are Chrome/Krom (another blue-haired male sword-user) and My Unit (an unit in which the player determines the name, gender, appearance, and class). Keep in mind though that the unanimous choice for a third playable Fire Emblem character by Japanese Smash Bros. fans is Roy, and that if Sakurai were to opt for someone else it would most likely be Chrome/Krom.

This sounds about right, but I also didn't say I was expecting one from FE13. I kind of figure that by the time SSB4 comes out, an FE14 will possibly already be on shelves. And maybe that game will have the kind of rep I'm looking for. Hence me not bothering to name which rep it should be yet.
Snakey
Member
(02-20-2012, 01:55 AM)
Snakey's Avatar

Originally Posted by Thores

This sounds about right, but I also didn't say I was expecting one from FE13. I kind of figure that by the time SSB4 comes out, an FE14 will possibly already be on shelves. And maybe that game will have the kind of rep I'm looking for. Hence me not bothering to name which rep it should be yet.

I do expect FE14 to be out by the time Smash 4 is released, however, I think any new characters that debut in it, won't have any bearing on the roster due it having been finalized in 2012.

A good example would be Brawl's development. At the beginning of Brawl's development (October 2005), Sakurai originally had "Fire Emblem newcomer" as a placeholder because he did not know what new Fire Emblem character to put into Brawl (not counting FE6, there were three new Fire Emblems released since Melee at the time of Sakurai beginning development on Brawl). Sakurai then went to Intelligent Systems for their opinion on who to add as the newcomer for Brawl. Keep in mind that at this time Intelligent Systems was deep in development for Radiant Dawn (FE10) and could have easily shown Sakurai a design of Micaiah since she would be the latest lord at the time of Brawl's release. Instead Intelligent Systems suggested Ike to Sakurai. The rest was history.

While Radiant Dawn ended up being released nearly a full year before Brawl's release, there was barely any content for it in Brawl (it had one trophy, three stickers, and a music track). Most of Brawl's Fire Emblem content was derived from Path of Radiance which the last Fire Emblem released prior to Brawl starting development.

Its from this that while FE14 will probably release before Smash 4 does (considering that the gap of time between Fire Emblem games is usually 2 to 2.5 years between games), that it does not guarantee that there will be much content from that game in Smash 4.

Crafting the roster right now, Sakurai probably knows that the two Fire Emblem games released since Brawl were remakes of Marth's games. I think he is also probably aware that FE13 is on the horizon. So right now his choice would be between Roy and Chrome/Krom.
Diddy Kong
Member
(02-20-2012, 02:05 AM)
Diddy Kong's Avatar

Originally Posted by Thores

Haha, do I think there's a 100% chance of that happening? No I do not. But outside of Smash, Sheik has been in exactly one game and its rereleases. Impa's more of a recurring character than Sheik is, and recently she's been spotlighting as a badass. I get that Sheik is a part of Smash culture now and a lot of fans would be upset if she got removed/replaced, but fan response/popularity isn't everything. In fact, with one or two exceptions per game, Sakurai doesn't really give a shit about what the "popular" or "safe" choice would be and takes more pleasure in mixing up the roster. Since Link and Zelda are presumably going to be updated to their Skyward Sword designs in SSB4, it would make thematic sense to have Impa in, as she was pretty much the "Sheik" of that game. Or they'll just give Sheik a Skyward Sword-ized design and move on to the next character. OR they skip Skyward Sword, use character designs from whatever the Wii U Zelda ends up being, and something completely different ends up happening in regards to character choices. I could honestly see any one of these happening.

But hey, I've been wrong before, and I'm sure your list is way more realis-

You realize that Sheik IS Zelda correct? Impa by no means was the "Sheik" of the game. She was Impa, same old Impa. Sheik was absent in TP as well, and was still present in Brawl (Spare me with the design nonsense). Relevance isn't an issue.

Also, Banjo-Kazooie is unrealistic, but I'm not making it worse by saying they should replace Jigglypuff or something.

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