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Jerykk
Banned
(02-19-2012, 06:27 AM)

Originally Posted by aeolist

Bioware isn't an independent dev getting published by EA like Remedy was for Alan Wake.

What people these days don't seem to understand is that "Bioware" is now just a label that EA slaps onto their RPG-lite games. You can blame Bioware and EA for this stuff at the same time because they are the same entity.

Bioware is a developer. EA is a publisher. EA has the final call on all business decisions, not Bioware. If EA wanted to, they could close all the Bioware studios and cancel all upcoming Bioware games. Being owned by a parent company doesn't make you synonymous with that company.
Jerykk
Banned
(02-19-2012, 06:36 AM)

Originally Posted by Snuggler

I argued that M/KB controls weren't necessary to the point of excluding gamepad controls. Read better. As I mentioned in my previous post, I typically play on normal, so I can just run n' gun that shit most of the time. I don't need quick access to abilities or razor sharp precision. Because of this, I think the "so what, KB/M is better anyways!" argument is bunk. PC gaming is supposed to be all about versatility, and it would be nice to have the option to play the game the way that suites me the best.

I agree that options are good but who can say just how much time and resources would be required for supporting both M/KB and gamepads? Would they have had to cut back on the M/KB optimizations (like the redesigned UI)? Would they have had to reduce testing for the M/KB controls and UI? I don't know the game's budget, dev cycle or resources so I can't really say. What I can say is that M/KB is the standard control scheme for PC and the optimal control scheme for shooters in general (I usually play them on the highest difficulty), so to me, gamepad support is unnecessary. If implementing gamepad support would diminish the M/KB support in any way, I'm glad they didn't do it.
Wallach
Member
(02-19-2012, 06:50 AM)
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Originally Posted by Jerykk

I agree that options are good but who can say just how much time and resources would be required for supporting both M/KB and gamepads? Would they have had to cut back on the M/KB optimizations (like the redesigned UI)? Would they have had to reduce testing for the M/KB controls and UI? I don't know the game's budget, dev cycle or resources so I can't really say. What I can say is that M/KB is the standard control scheme for PC and the optimal control scheme for shooters in general (I usually play them on the highest difficulty), so to me, gamepad support is unnecessary. If implementing gamepad support would diminish the M/KB support in any way, I'm glad they didn't do it.

The effort involved is honestly very minor. It's especially true for a game like this that already has part of the work done out of necessity, and certainly wouldn't have any bearing on the M/KB support.

There's really no good excuse for not having it in this game (or most any game that comes multiplatform alongside the 360).
Htown
STOP SHITTING ON MY MOTHER'S HEADSTONE
(02-19-2012, 07:27 AM)
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Originally Posted by Jerykk

I agree that options are good but who can say just how much time and resources would be required for supporting both M/KB and gamepads? Would they have had to cut back on the M/KB optimizations (like the redesigned UI)? Would they have had to reduce testing for the M/KB controls and UI? I don't know the game's budget, dev cycle or resources so I can't really say. What I can say is that M/KB is the standard control scheme for PC and the optimal control scheme for shooters in general (I usually play them on the highest difficulty), so to me, gamepad support is unnecessary. If implementing gamepad support would diminish the M/KB support in any way, I'm glad they didn't do it.

Why are you defending this so hard?

It's been posted a million times in this thread that 2 and 3 man teams come out with gamepad-supporting PC games all the time. Why defend laziness?

Hell, we got game developers here on GAF. Let's ask them. Any devs out there, indie or otherwise, want to talk about whether or not it's actually hard to get controller support into a PC game?
LumpOfCole
Cereal Killer
(02-19-2012, 07:40 AM)
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I had always thought PC versions of 360 games like Arkham Asylum/City and Sonic Generations and Bioshock specifically had perfect 360 controller support because Xinput was so easy to take from the 360 version to the PC version (or rather, build both at the same time easily).

I wouldn't say it's laziness since I'm sure they've been very busy and stretched at crunch. I would call it more of a lack of foresight or prioritizing at the planning stages. It shouldn't be a big deal in terms of resource or tome management to bring in 360 pad support.
Eusis
Member
(02-19-2012, 07:44 AM)
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It's starting to almost seem like it's more Bioware HATES bothering with controller support in their PC games. Jade Empire aside, each of their ports simply didn't bother whether it made sense (DA:O) or not (ME2 and presumably 3).
sp3000
Member
(02-19-2012, 07:51 AM)
I can't believe people are defending this.

Just think that Crysis had full support for the gamepad even though it was only on PC.
Truant
Member
(02-19-2012, 10:18 AM)
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There's no excuse for this. Bioware are just so mediocre when it comes to going the extra mile.
Minion101
Member
(02-20-2012, 02:22 AM)
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Originally Posted by Ploid 3.0

It's amazing indie developers are able to put it in.
Ploid 3.0
Member
(02-20-2012, 06:48 AM)
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Originally Posted by Minion101

It's amazing indie developers are able to put it in.

Bioware can too, they just want it out. They probably do like ME2 and not patch it in also. They will try to sell you DLC though, thats important above all. They can also use the excuse that there was only time to get the dlc out, and maybe they will add that they are now working on something else after that.
a posh hammer
Member
(02-20-2012, 10:07 AM)
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Resource management is honestly such a weird argument with something this small in a game this big, unless they left the port 'til really late.
evil solrac v3.0
(02-20-2012, 10:17 AM)
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hey are we using the 8 hours a day on a keyboard argument?
Ledsen
Member
(02-20-2012, 10:19 AM)
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Originally Posted by evil solrac v3.0

hey are we using the 8 hours a day on a keyboard argument?

It's not really something you can argue about. For some people it's simply a fact of life.
elmariachi
Banned
(02-20-2012, 03:35 PM)
first off, yeah it does come off as lazy to not include support but let's get a few things straight.

There has never been gamepad support for the game, so how can anyone be shocked.

Second, I love PC gaming because it is the platform with options and remains true even in this case. Multiple users have posted alternatives, which I have used myself.

It is clear the devs don't give a fuck, that is there choice. But that doesn't stop PC gamers from having choices. You can call them lazy, but so are you if you don't take advantage of what PC gaming has to offer.
Fatghost
Gas Guzzler
(02-20-2012, 03:40 PM)
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Are they seriously trying to say they didn't have time/resources to copy/paste xinput from the 360 version to the PC?

Really?
Ploid 3.0
Member
(02-20-2012, 04:23 PM)
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Originally Posted by elmariachi

first off, yeah it does come off as lazy to not include support but let's get a few things straight.

There has never been gamepad support for the game, so how can anyone be shocked.

Second, I love PC gaming because it is the platform with options and remains true even in this case. Multiple users have posted alternatives, which I have used myself.

It is clear the devs don't give a fuck, that is there choice. But that doesn't stop PC gamers from having choices. You can call them lazy, but so are you if you don't take advantage of what PC gaming has to offer.

Again I tried this alternative that you have to buy. Each time I tried to configure it for ME2 it just felt weird and seemed all screwed up/unnatural, and I'd think it would be so much better if the game had native controller support. I waste buttons on menu only commands, and in the end I just move on to another game. I wish I had that other game profiler that was posted with better button commands (Holding, tapping button commands).

Bioware is too lazy to put controller support in, then I just won't deal with it. Also I'm shocked because after all of the complaints they still avoided putting it in this one. They know better, it's not like they shouldn't be trying to satisfy their potential customers, or maybe they are so awesome now that they don't need potential customers. It's as if we should be crawling to their well to beg for a sip of their water. There's other sources for gaming and a ton of it, I don't need ME3. They should be fighting to get me to buy their game. At this point I'm still fascinated by this thread just for entertainment. I doubt I even care what Bioware does anymore.
Last edited by Ploid 3.0; 02-20-2012 at 04:29 PM.
Lime
Member
(02-21-2012, 08:47 PM)
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To add to the discussion. The bioengine.ini is set to load the following packages:

Code:

"GUI_SF_XBox_ControllerIcons",
        "BIOA_ControllerIcons_PC"
Meaning, besides already having the settings in bioinput.ini, the engine also loads the 360 UI in the PC version. It would probably take 20 minutes for an average programmer to link a command to let the game switch between 360/PC UI/input.
Felix Lighter
Member
(02-21-2012, 09:03 PM)
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Originally Posted by Lime

To add to the discussion. The bioengine.ini is set to load the following packages:

Code:

"GUI_SF_XBox_ControllerIcons",
        "BIOA_ControllerIcons_PC"
Meaning, besides already having the settings in bioinput.ini, the engine also loads the 360 UI in the PC version. It would probably take 20 minutes for an average programmer to link a command to let the game switch between 360/PC UI/input.

So close, then development realities kicked in. If only they had a few more bucks and a couple more man minutes.

Also, I'm playing the PC version of Alan Wake. The game switches the prompt icons based on the last input device you touched. Both keyboard and mouse and gamepad options are always available. If I click my keyboard, the keyboard prompts display. If I then touch a button on my 360 controller the button prompts switch to the gamepad buttons. No restarting the game or pausing and changing options, but I guess Remedy's massive UI team was given virtually infinite time and money to make the PC port.
Last edited by Felix Lighter; 02-21-2012 at 09:12 PM.
Jtrizzy
Junior Member
(02-21-2012, 09:13 PM)
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So pretty much the cost of adding this would be covered with maybe 5 origin copies sold?
Truant
Member
(02-21-2012, 09:16 PM)
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Nah, man. You have no idea what development is like. It's not like other developers add pad support for their PC titles.



Oh, wait
Sutton Dagger
Member
(02-21-2012, 09:34 PM)
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Just another reason for me not to support/buy this game (on top of Origin exclusivity).
Minion101
Member
(02-21-2012, 09:37 PM)
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If they didn't go out of their way to make the game un-mod-able. A modder could just spend an hour an add gamepad support themselves.
Snuggles
erotic butter maelstrom
(02-21-2012, 09:39 PM)
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Originally Posted by Jtrizzy

So pretty much the cost of adding this would be covered with maybe 5 origin copies sold?

Sure, but someone would have to skip their lunchbreak to make time for it. Hungry programmers make sloppy games.
Ploid 3.0
Member
(02-21-2012, 11:25 PM)
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I think one of the main reasons Bethesda games are so popular on PC is that they pretty much embrace modding. Let the fans fix the bugs, and so on. ME2 seemed like it was tough to make mods for, needing outside programs running. It's probably a EA thing though.
Deus Ex Machina
Member
(02-22-2012, 01:31 AM)
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Mass Effect 3 Profile up!

http://pinnaclegameprofiler.com/foru...ad.php?t=24243


Last edited by Deus Ex Machina; 02-22-2012 at 01:39 AM.
curttard
Banned
(03-07-2012, 03:08 PM)
The Pinnacle profile just doesn't feel right for me, not sure I'm going to be able to play this one. Using 360 controller with pure mouse emulation just doesn't feel good and isn't accurate; the game needs SOME kind of controller awareness.

Plus my character would keep walking when I let go of the stick.
Double D
Member
(03-07-2012, 03:18 PM)
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I think this really sucks, but I still chose to get this on PC instead of the 360. Is it crazy that I prefer playing Mass Effect with a KB/M?
Bisnic
Really Really Exciting Member!
(03-07-2012, 03:22 PM)
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Originally Posted by Double D

I think this really sucks, but I still chose to get this on PC instead of the 360. Is it crazy that I prefer playing Mass Effect with a KB/M?

Considering it controls very well with a keyboard & mouse. No, you're not crazy.
hwalker84
Banned
(03-07-2012, 03:22 PM)
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Plenty of games support the Xbox controller on PC without providing the HUD from the Xbox.

That's all I ask for.
curttard
Banned
(03-07-2012, 05:57 PM)
It's a funny situation.

Bioware just CAN'T get it done. This despite the facts that fans have been asking for it since the first game; that the game is a port of a console game made for controllers; that almost every other PC game has controller support, including every other EA game; that fans have been able to patch in support to the previous games.

It's really inexcusable; these guys have tens of millions of dollars at their disposal and can't be bothered to put a couple hours into adding something many fans have been asking for for YEARS.
Lime
Member
(03-07-2012, 06:01 PM)
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Originally Posted by curttard

It's a funny situation.

Bioware just CAN'T get it done. This despite the facts that fans have been asking for it since the first game; that the game is a port of a console game made for controllers; that almost every other PC game has controller support, including every other EA game; that fans have been able to patch in support to the previous games.

It's really inexcusable; these guys have tens of millions of dollars at their disposal and can't be bothered to put a couple hours into adding something many fans have been asking for for YEARS.

Didn't you know it's more important to use the money on space balloons, fan-made Dragon Age films, IGN hosts, and crappy iOS games?
Manos: The Hans of Fate
Banned
(03-07-2012, 06:05 PM)
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While I've been enjoying M and K/B I'm interesting in seeing how a controller feels since it could be useful for other games too. What's the cheapest controller I can buy? FWIW I already have a PS3 wireless controller, but I never got that program to work that apparently allowed you play with it on your computer. Also if Gamestop sells the controller let me know so I can do a "rental" test.
TouchMyBox
Member
(03-07-2012, 06:12 PM)
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Whatever, this won't be a big deal in three years in our button-less future.

EA is just that progressive.
Jtrizzy
Junior Member
(03-07-2012, 06:25 PM)
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The analog movement works pretty well, but none of the buttons are responding. I guess I can fix that though.

Here is BP101's xpadder profile if anyone wants to try it, I haven't gotten around to trying x padder yet.

http://www.2shared.com/file/ImzKw1Fv...er-3Dizzy.html
infinityBCRT
Member
(03-07-2012, 06:40 PM)

Originally Posted by curttard

The Pinnacle profile just doesn't feel right for me, not sure I'm going to be able to play this one. Using 360 controller with pure mouse emulation just doesn't feel good and isn't accurate; the game needs SOME kind of controller awareness.

Plus my character would keep walking when I let go of the stick.

Sounds like you need to adjust the deadzone.
Bill Murray
Banned
(03-07-2012, 07:50 PM)
Fuck it. I'm just gonna suck it up and play with M/KB and a TV tray.

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